LXI vs. WB's

[birdshill123]

We are still looking at larger BB's. I have seen a few LXI's of the 98
vintage 41,s and 43,s for sale as well as a few 90 to 96 WB's. I
understand some of the differences such as the Detroit 60 and the
dropped engine for the rear closet. But I am interested in knowing some
of the possible problems with a 98. Is the 60 DD a good engine? Are
he 98's overloaded on the FA? I remeber reading something about some
BB's having this problem. Any other things I should be aware of? Would
really appreciate some assistance.

Bruce
1988 FC35

[brad barton]

Bruce,

David Brady has been working with the front end of his LXi. Mine is not overloaded, but overbuilt. I don't think there is a better engine than the Series 60, but I like any Detroit. Mine has a standard non-slide bedroom without a rear closet, but the bed's a lot eaiser to get around. We have a full length closet on the front wall of the bedroom and 3 hall closets. Plenty of storage on board.

Brad Barton 00LXiDFW
bbartonwx@...

---

To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
From: birdshill123@...
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:21:33 +0000
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] LXI vs. WB's

We are still looking at larger BB's. I have seen a few LXI's of the 98
vintage 41,s and 43,s for sale as well as a few 90 to 96 WB's. I
understand some of the differences such as the Detroit 60 and the
dropped engine for the rear closet. But I am interested in knowing some
of the possible problems with a 98. Is the 60 DD a good engine? Are
he 98's overloaded on the FA? I remeber reading something about some
BB's having this problem. Any other things I should be aware of? Would
really appreciate some assistance.

Bruce
1988 FC35

---

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[Pete Masterson]

I have to admit that the Series 60 in my '95 was a major attraction. Nothing wrong with the DD 8v92, but it's been nearly 20 years since 8vs and 6vs have been built. It's getting difficult to find experienced diesel mechanics who can work with them. Since the Series 60 is still in production -- and widely used -- there is little difficulty finding qualified mechanics.

FWIW, I've had no troubles with the engine and haven't needed any repairs on it -- just the usual preventive maintenance you'd expect.

When I had my coach weighed, I was a little surprised how heavy it was -- but it's still comfortably under the GVWR and no axle is close to being overloaded. I did, however, have to raise the tire pressures to keep the tires 'in spec' to somewhat above the recommended pressures on a plate found in one of the storage bays.

Some of the 'purists' might suggest that the coaches with rivets in their skin are "better" than the later, adhesive bonded models -- but I wouldn't know how true that is. From an engineering perspective, adhesive bonding, if done correctly, gives a stronger connection with less concentrated stress on the connection points as is the case with rivets. But I can understand a concern that "glue" might not be as durable over time. (But I've never heard that anyone has had trouble with a 'bird in this regard.)

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

On Feb 13, 2008, at 11:46 AM, brad barton wrote:

Bruce, 
David Brady has been working with the front end of his LXi.  Mine is not overloaded, but overbuilt.  I don't think there is a better engine than the Series 60, but I like any Detroit.  Mine has a standard non-slide bedroom without a rear closet, but the bed's a lot eaiser to get around.  We have a full length closet on the front wall of the bedroom and 3 hall closets.  Plenty of storage on board.  

Brad Barton 00LXiDFW
"bbartonwx@hotmail.com"

---

To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
From: birdshill123@...
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:21:33 +0000
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] LXI vs. WB's

We are still looking at larger BB's. I have seen a few LXI's of the 98 
vintage 41,s and 43,s for sale as well as a few 90 to 96 WB's. I 
understand some of the differences such as the Detroit 60 and the 
dropped engine for the rear closet. But I am interested in knowing some 
of the possible problems with a 98. Is the 60 DD a good engine? Are 
he 98's overloaded on the FA? I remeber reading something about some 
BB's having this problem. Any other things I should be aware of? Would 
really appreciate some assistance.

Bruce
1988 FC35

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Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. Get it now! 

[David Brady]

Bruce,



I'm with Brad - the S60 is a remarkable engine with a long

successful history in the trucking industry. My axles, like

the rest of the bus, are overbuilt too. GAWR: steer: 16K,

drive: 23K, tag: 13K. My actual axle weights are steer: 14.5K,

drive: 21K, tag: 11.5K for a vehicle weight 47K and a CCC of

5K lbs. I know that the steer axle on early LXi's had a GAWR of

14K lb, but I think they were all recalled and swapped with 16K lb

units. (Definitely something to check). Some of the early units had

steerable tags, a very cool option, but known to present it's own set

of problems. A non-steer tag is probably preferable. My LXi has

been great - reliable and spacious. The only issue I've had is ride
quality.

When I bought my coach it rode rough primarily at the steer axle. I

found that the ride height was almost an inch low at all axles. Setting
it

up with the proper ride height, Koni FSDs, CrossFires, and Centramatics

improved the ride significantly. Recently though, I discovered that

BlueBird put an excessively stiff front anti-sway bar on the steer axle.

I removed the steer axle anti-sway bar and now the ride is as close

to a Prevost (and I've driven a few) as your likely to find. A lighter

weight Roadmaster anti-sway bar is in the works.The non-slide LXi

does use a lighter anti-sway bar (1.75" diameter versus my 2.125" bar),


but I still think 1.75" is too stiff. I'll be going to a 1.5" bar. The
great thing

about BB's (as I'm sure you know) are the capacities, and the LXi

follows in that BB tradition including a 40 gallon LPG tank and a dual

fuel refrigerator. The non-slide LXi has the typical

triangulated basement bays; the slide equipped LXi adds to this by

incorporating longitudinal frame rails running the length of the
basement.

These rails are under the basement and are also triangulated (take a

peek under any LXi and you'll see what I'm talking about). These were

added to compensated for the slide opening. In addition, the inside of
the

bus has a layer of sheet metal riveted to the inner frame members
spanning

the length of the bus and spanning the distance from the floors to the

bottoms of the windows. This is used to compensate for the rivet-less

exterior look; i.e, hide the rivets on the inside. The slide equipped
bus

also has a set of triangulated frame members stretching from the top of

the steer axle to the bottom of the basement longitudinal rails, which I

discussed earlier. As Bruce Morris put it, your not losing any strength

by going from a non-slide bus to a slide equipped LXi (lots of
compensating

strength was built in.



David Brady

'02 LXi, NC





brad barton wrote:

Bruce,

David Brady has been working with the front end of his LXi. Mine is
not overloaded, but overbuilt. I don't think there is a better engine
than the Series 60, but I like any Detroit. Mine has a standard
non-slide bedroom without a rear closet, but the bed's a lot eaiser to
get around. We have a full length closet on the front wall of the
bedroom and 3 hall closets. Plenty of storage on board.



Brad Barton 00LXiDFW

bbartonwx@hotmail.com

---

To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com

From: birdshill123@yahoo.com

Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:21:33 +0000

Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] LXI vs. WB's

We are still looking at larger BB's. I have
seen a few LXI's of the 98

vintage 41,s and 43,s for sale as well as a few 90 to 96 WB's. I

understand some of the differences such as the Detroit 60 and the

dropped engine for the rear closet. But I am interested in knowing some


of the possible problems with a 98. Is the 60 DD a good engine? Are

he 98's overloaded on the FA? I remeber reading something about some

BB's having this problem. Any other things I should be aware of? Would

really appreciate some assistance.



Bruce

1988 FC35

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[David Brady]

Oops, I beg your pardon, I meant to write "George Morris", not Bruce.

George is the ex-bluebird mechanic now working for Bleakley's at

Unidilla.



David Brady

'02 LXi, NC



David Brady wrote:

Bruce,



As Bruce Morris put it, your not losing any strength

by going from a non-slide bus to a slide equipped LXi (lots of
compensating

strength was built in.



David Brady

'02 LXi, NC

[Leroy Eckert]

I will stick with rivets. Most aircraft are built with one inch or less rivet spacing. There are many 50 year old examples out there in fine condition. My BB has three inch spacing. Yes there are composites out there, all subject to UV problems over time. No offense to newer units.

Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
Dahlonega, GA
Royale Conversion

Pete Masterson wrote:

I have to admit that the Series 60 in my '95 was a major attraction. Nothing wrong with the DD 8v92, but it's been nearly 20 years since 8vs and 6vs have
been built. It's getting difficult to find experienced diesel mechanics who can work with them. Since the Series 60 is still in production -- and widely used -- there is little difficulty finding qualified mechanics.

FWIW, I've had no troubles with the engine and haven't needed any repairs on it -- just the usual preventive maintenance you'd expect.

When I had my coach weighed, I was a little surprised how heavy it was -- but it's still comfortably under the GVWR and no axle is close to being overloaded. I did, however, have to raise the tire pressures to keep the tires 'in spec' to somewhat above the recommended pressures on a plate found in one of the storage bays.

Some of the 'purists' might suggest that the coaches with rivets in their skin are "better" than the later, adhesive bonded models -- but I
wouldn't know how true that is. From an engineering perspective, adhesive bonding, if done correctly, gives a stronger connection with less concentrated stress on the connection points as is the case with rivets. But I can understand a concern that "glue" might not be as durable over time. (But I've never heard that anyone has had trouble with a 'bird in this regard.)

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

On Feb 13, 2008, at 11:46 AM, brad barton wrote:

Bruce,
David Brady has been working with the front end of his LXi. Mine is not overloaded, but overbuilt. I don't think there is a better engine than the Series 60, but I like any Detroit. Mine has a standard non-slide bedroom without a rear closet, but the bed's a lot eaiser to get around. We have a full length closet on the front wall of the bedroom and 3 hall closets. Plenty of storage on board.

Brad Barton 00LXiDFW
"bbartonwx@hotmail.com"

---

To:
WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
From: birdshill123@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:21:33 +0000
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] LXI vs. WB's

We are still looking at larger BB's. I have seen a few LXI's of the 98
vintage 41,s and 43,s for sale as well as a few 90 to 96 WB's. I
understand some of the differences such as the Detroit 60 and the
dropped engine for the rear closet. But I am interested in knowing some
of the possible problems with a 98. Is the 60 DD a good engine? Are
he 98's overloaded on the FA? I remeber reading something about some
BB's having this
problem. Any other things I should be aware of? Would
really appreciate some assistance.

Bruce
1988 FC35

---

Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live.Get it now!

---

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

[David Brady]

I'm with you Leroy. I love the rivet-ed buses of the 40's, 50's &
60's,

GM's, Flxible's, etc. Unfortunately they don't build 'em like that

anymore. If you want the newer features, Series 60, etc, then you

get the smooth sides. At least the LXi has rivets on the inside wall

panels.



David Brady

'02 LXi, NC



Leroy Eckert wrote:

I will stick with rivets. Most aircraft are built with one inch or
less rivet spacing. There are many 50 year old examples out there in
fine condition. My BB has three inch spacing. Yes there are composites
out there, all subject to UV problems over time. No offense to newer
units.



Leroy Eckert

1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors

Dahlonega, GA

Royale Conversion



Pete Masterson com> wrote:

I have to admit that the Series 60 in my '95 was a major
attraction. Nothing wrong with the DD 8v92, but it's been nearly 20
years since 8vs and 6vs have been built. It's getting difficult to find
experienced diesel mechanics who can work with them. Since the Series
60 is still in production -- and widely used -- there is little
difficulty finding qualified mechanics.

FWIW, I've had no troubles with the engine and haven't needed
any repairs on it -- just the usual preventive maintenance you'd expect.

When I had my coach weighed, I was a little surprised how
heavy it was -- but it's still comfortably under the GVWR and no axle
is close to being overloaded. I did, however, have to raise the tire
pressures to keep the tires 'in spec' to somewhat above the recommended
pressures on a plate found in one of the storage bays.

Some of the 'purists' might suggest that the coaches with
rivets in their skin are "better" than the later, adhesive bonded
models -- but I wouldn't know how true that is. From an engineering
perspective, adhesive bonding, if done correctly, gives a stronger
connection with less concentrated stress on the connection points as is
the case with rivets. But I can understand a concern that "glue" might
not be as durable over time. (But I've never heard that anyone has had
trouble with a 'bird in this regard.)

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

On Feb 13, 2008, at 11:46 AM, brad barton wrote:

Bruce,

David Brady has been working with the front end of his LXi. Mine is
not overloaded, but overbuilt. I don't think there is a better engine
than the Series 60, but I like any Detroit. Mine has a standard
non-slide bedroom without a rear closet, but the bed's a lot eaiser to
get around. We have a full length closet on the front wall of the
bedroom and 3 hall closets. Plenty of storage on board.



Brad Barton 00LXiDFW

"bbartonwx@hotmail.com"

---

To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com

From: birdshill123@yahoo.com

Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:21:33 +0000

Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] LXI vs. WB's

We are still looking at larger BB's. I
have seen a few LXI's of the 98

vintage 41,s and 43,s for sale as well as a few 90 to 96 WB's. I

understand some of the differences such as the Detroit 60 and the

dropped engine for the rear closet. But I am interested in knowing some

of the possible problems with a 98. Is the 60 DD a good engine? Are

he 98's overloaded on the FA? I remeber reading something about some

BB's having this problem. Any other things I should be aware of? Would

really appreciate some assistance.



Bruce

1988 FC35

---

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---

Never miss a thing.
Make Yahoo your homepage.

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.20.4/1275 - Release Date: 2/12/2008 3:20 PM

[Pete Masterson]

My bus has rivets -- and a Series 60. I think the rivets went away in '96.

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

On Feb 13, 2008, at 4:19 PM, David Brady wrote:

I'm with you Leroy. I love the rivet-ed buses of the 40's, 50's & 60's,
GM's, Flxible's, etc. Unfortunately they don't build 'em like that
anymore. If you want the newer features, Series 60, etc, then you
get the smooth sides. At least the LXi has rivets on the inside wall
panels.

[p_a_lazar]

Call me an old romantic.

I opted for the rivets for the classic look. 97 was the last year for
riveted birds. Since neither my wife nor I wanted slides anymore, and
since we wanted rivets, it became a no brainer for us.

With the exception of slides and bonded sides, there isn't enough
difference between the 1995-2003 WB43s and LXis to be concerned about.
It really just comes down to what style and layout you prefer. I'm not
getting into the bonded vs riveted wars, we bought what we liked and
have been changing anything we didn't like and we REALLY like our bird.


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Pete Masterson
wrote:
>
> My bus has rivets -- and a Series 60. I think the rivets went away in
> '96.

[Don Bradner]

97 was the last year of the rivets. You can get a Series 60 w/rivets in the
95/96 42 footer, and the 97 41 and 43 footers.

The 97 was when they dropped the engine down and gained some room at the back.

My personal ideal would be a 97 41 ft with mid-entry, like the Hulse's have.

Don Bradner
90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
Posting today by satellite from Casa Grande, AZ

On 2/13/2008 at 5:20 PM Pete Masterson wrote:

>My bus has rivets -- and a Series 60. I think the rivets went away in
>'96.
>
>Pete Masterson
>'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
>El Sobrante CA
>aeonix1@...
>
>
>
>On Feb 13, 2008, at 4:19 PM, David Brady wrote:
>
>> I'm with you Leroy. I love the rivet-ed buses of the 40's, 50's &
>> 60's,
>> GM's, Flxible's, etc. Unfortunately they don't build 'em like that
>> anymore. If you want the newer features, Series 60, etc, then you
>> get the smooth sides. At least the LXi has rivets on the inside wall
>> panels.
>>
>>


Don Bradner
90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
Eureka, CA