1111Aa RV3012M inverter installation photos

[bumpersbird]

I have posted two photos from e-bay of a 2000 Blue Bird LXI 43
Wanderlodge, the address is pasted below and I have these photos in a
new album in the photo section, named 1111AaRv3012M

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&category=50056&viewitem=&item=110260798370&_trksid=p3907.m29

If the inverters cannot be more than 12' from the batteries, how does
this system work on a 2000 LXI ?????????????????????????

I only ask because I've been told it can be done, but no one has told
me how.

Xantrex said it can't be done but here are pictures of Xantrex
Inverters and they are at least 20' from the Batteries.

My last post on this topic I had decided to just put the new inverters
in place of the old ones. After seeing these photos I'd like to put
them in the same bay as the ones in the photo.

I'll call tech sevices at Ft. Valley in the AM.

Any ideas on who would know anything about this set up. Maybe you guys
with LX & LXI's could tell me what size cable is coming from the + & -
posts on your inverters. The ones in the photos are Xantrex RV series
inverters, my new ones look just like em.

Kurt Horvath
95 PT-42 WLWB
10-AC

[David Brady]

Kurt,



Sorry I can't help with the cable size, I'm away from the bus,

but I don't think the inverters are more than 10 to 12ft from

the house batteries. I'll measure it when I have a chance. The

house batteries are behind the tag axle on the curb side. The

inverters are in the second to the last bay next to the toolbox.

I think the cable run is around 10 to 12ft.



David Brady

'02 LXi, NC



bumpersbird wrote:

I have posted two photos from e-bay of a 2000 Blue Bird LXI 43

Wanderlodge, the address is pasted below and I have these photos in a

new album in the photo section, named 1111AaRv3012M



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?

ViewItem&category=50056&viewitem=&item=110260798370&_trksid=p3907.m29



If the inverters cannot be more than 12' from the batteries, how does

this system work on a 2000 LXI ?????????????????????????



I only ask because I've been told it can be done, but no one has told

me how.



Xantrex said it can't be done but here are pictures of Xantrex

Inverters and they are at least 20' from the Batteries.



My last post on this topic I had decided to just put the new inverters

in place of the old ones. After seeing these photos I'd like to put

them in the same bay as the ones in the photo.



I'll call tech sevices at Ft. Valley in the AM.



Any ideas on who would know anything about this set up. Maybe you guys

with LX & LXI's could tell me what size cable is coming from the +
& -

posts on your inverters. The ones in the photos are Xantrex RV series

inverters, my new ones look just like em.



Kurt Horvath

95 PT-42 WLWB

10-AC

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[Dorn Hetzel]

I don't know why there would be any specific hard limit on cable length. Cables that are twice as long and also have twice the cross-sectional area have exactly the same resistance and voltage drop at a given current. There may be a length where the required thickness would be difficult to route, but I don't see the reason for any specific hard cap like 12'. Not that I'm saying putting the inverter 35' from the batteries would be a good thing, or desirable, just that I don't see any engineering reason for some unbreakable limit.


Dorn Hetzel
77FC35
Hogansville, GA

On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 12:45 AM, David Brady <"dmb993@earthlink.net"> wrote:

Kurt,



Sorry I can't help with the cable size, I'm away from the bus,

but I don't think the inverters are more than 10 to 12ft from

the house batteries. I'll measure it when I have a chance. The

house batteries are behind the tag axle on the curb side. The

inverters are in the second to the last bay next to the toolbox.

I think the cable run is around 10 to 12ft.



David Brady

'02 LXi, NC



bumpersbird wrote:

I have posted two photos from e-bay of a 2000 Blue Bird LXI 43

Wanderlodge, the address is pasted below and I have these photos in a

new album in the photo section, named 1111AaRv3012M



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?

ViewItem&category=50056&viewitem=&item=110260798370&_trksid=p3907.m29



If the inverters cannot be more than 12' from the batteries, how does

this system work on a 2000 LXI ?????????????????????????



I only ask because I've been told it can be done, but no one has told

me how.



Xantrex said it can't be done but here are pictures of Xantrex

Inverters and they are at least 20' from the Batteries.



My last post on this topic I had decided to just put the new inverters

in place of the old ones. After seeing these photos I'd like to put

them in the same bay as the ones in the photo.



I'll call tech sevices at Ft. Valley in the AM.



Any ideas on who would know anything about this set up. Maybe you guys

with LX & LXI's could tell me what size cable is coming from the +
& -

posts on your inverters. The ones in the photos are Xantrex RV series

inverters, my new ones look just like em.



Kurt Horvath

95 PT-42 WLWB

10-AC

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[David Brady]

Only that long cables start to behave like transmission lines -

they can be modeled with inductors, resistors, and capacitors.

This is only an issue if the signal is variable in time. Ninety

percent of the time this is true; i.e., the inverter is drawing steady

current and voltage from the batteries or it is supplying steady

I and V, but there are transients and there are time varying

elements that are superimposed on the long cables by both

the batteries and the inverters. Maybe this is what they're

concerned about.



David Brady

'02 LXi, NC



Dorn Hetzel wrote:

I don't know why there would be any specific hard limit on cable
length. Cables that are twice as long and also have twice the
cross-sectional area have exactly the same resistance and voltage drop
at a given current. There may be a length where the required thickness
would be difficult to route, but I don't see the reason for any
specific hard cap like 12'. Not that I'm saying putting the inverter
35' from the batteries would be a good thing, or desirable, just that I
don't see any engineering reason for some unbreakable limit.



Dorn Hetzel

77FC35

Hogansville, GA

On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 12:45 AM, David
Brady <"dmb993@earthlink.net">
wrote:

Kurt,



Sorry I can't help with the cable size, I'm away from the bus,

but I don't think the inverters are more than 10 to 12ft from

the house batteries. I'll measure it when I have a chance. The

house batteries are behind the tag axle on the curb side. The

inverters are in the second to the last bay next to the toolbox.

I think the cable run is around 10 to 12ft.



David Brady

'02 LXi, NC



bumpersbird wrote:

I have posted two photos from e-bay of a 2000 Blue Bird LXI 43


Wanderlodge, the address is pasted below and I have these photos in a

new album in the photo section, named 1111AaRv3012M



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?

ViewItem&category=50056&viewitem=&item=110260798370&_trksid=p3907.m29



If the inverters cannot be more than 12' from the batteries, how does

this system work on a 2000 LXI ?????????????????????????



I only ask because I've been told it can be done, but no one has told

me how.



Xantrex said it can't be done but here are pictures of Xantrex

Inverters and they are at least 20' from the Batteries.



My last post on this topic I had decided to just put the new inverters

in place of the old ones. After seeing these photos I'd like to put

them in the same bay as the ones in the photo.



I'll call tech sevices at Ft. Valley in the AM.



Any ideas on who would know anything about this set up. Maybe you guys

with LX & LXI's could tell me what size cable is coming from the +
& -

posts on your inverters. The ones in the photos are Xantrex RV series

inverters, my new ones look just like em.



Kurt Horvath

95 PT-42 WLWB

10-AC

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[David Brady]

What I meant to say was: "Ninety percent of the time, the

signal is steady relative to time: DC"



David Brady

'02 LXi, NC



David Brady wrote:

Only that long cables start to behave like transmission lines -

they can be modeled with inductors, resistors, and capacitors.

This is only an issue if the signal is variable in time. Ninety

percent of the time this is true; i.e., the inverter is drawing steady

current and voltage from the batteries or it is supplying steady

I and V, but there are transients and there are time varying

elements that are superimposed on the long cables by both

the batteries and the inverters. Maybe this is what they're

concerned about.



David Brady

'02 LXi, NC



Dorn Hetzel wrote:

I don't know why there would be any specific hard limit on cable
length. Cables that are twice as long and also have twice the
cross-sectional area have exactly the same resistance and voltage drop
at a given current. There may be a length where the required thickness
would be difficult to route, but I don't see the reason for any
specific hard cap like 12'. Not that I'm saying putting the inverter
35' from the batteries would be a good thing, or desirable, just that I
don't see any engineering reason for some unbreakable limit.



Dorn Hetzel

77FC35

Hogansville, GA

On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 12:45 AM, David
Brady <"dmb993@earthlink.net">
wrote:

Kurt,



Sorry I can't help with the cable size, I'm away from the bus,

but I don't think the inverters are more than 10 to 12ft from

the house batteries. I'll measure it when I have a chance. The

house batteries are behind the tag axle on the curb side. The

inverters are in the second to the last bay next to the toolbox.

I think the cable run is around 10 to 12ft.



David Brady

'02 LXi, NC



bumpersbird wrote:

I have posted two photos from e-bay of a 2000 Blue Bird LXI
43

Wanderlodge, the address is pasted below and I have these photos in a

new album in the photo section, named 1111AaRv3012M



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?

ViewItem&category=50056&viewitem=&item=110260798370&_trksid=p3907.m29



If the inverters cannot be more than 12' from the batteries, how does

this system work on a 2000 LXI ?????????????????????????



I only ask because I've been told it can be done, but no one has told

me how.



Xantrex said it can't be done but here are pictures of Xantrex

Inverters and they are at least 20' from the Batteries.



My last post on this topic I had decided to just put the new inverters

in place of the old ones. After seeing these photos I'd like to put

them in the same bay as the ones in the photo.



I'll call tech sevices at Ft. Valley in the AM.



Any ideas on who would know anything about this set up. Maybe you guys

with LX & LXI's could tell me what size cable is coming from the +
& -

posts on your inverters. The ones in the photos are Xantrex RV series

inverters, my new ones look just like em.



Kurt Horvath

95 PT-42 WLWB

10-AC

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[brad barton]

I don't have my coach with me anymore, either, but my inverters are placed slightly aft of mid-coach so the 20' length might be pretty close.

BradBarton00LXiDFW bbartonwx@...

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[bumpersbird]

David

Is that along the out side of the coach?

One problem I have is my inverters are side by side, which adds a
foot or so to one of the runs. What size cable is on your inverters?

Kurt
95 PT-42
10AC


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, David Brady
wrote:
>
> I measure 14 ft.
>
> David
> '02 LXi, NC
>
> brad barton wrote:
> >
> > I don't have my coach with me anymore, either, but my inverters
are
> > placed slightly aft of mid-coach so the 20' length might be
pretty
> > close.
> >
> > Brad Barton 00LXiDFW bbartonwx@...
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > Search that pays you back! Introducing Live Search cashback.
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> > Now!
> > <http://search.live.com/cashback/?
&pkw=form=MIJAAF/publ=HMTGL/crea=srchpaysyouback>
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> > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1498 - Release Date:
6/11/2008 7:13 PM
> >
>

[Pete Masterson]

The (2008) LXIs I saw at CCW while I was on my extended service in Riverside have 10 (type 4D) house batteries located in (approximately) the same place as the house battery compartment in the '95 model. Since there are so many batteries, there's no room for the inverters in the same compartment as is the case for the '95. This compartment is just behind the tag axle. 

The inverters are next to the tool box (as in the 2000 LXI) -- but the cable run is quite probably no more than 12', taking the most direct route.

As for cable size, in the June 2008 Bus Conversions magazine, there is a discussion of suitable conductor sizes for 12v systems. With 120 v systems, cable size is generally based on the amp load expected, as the voltage loss due to resistance is usually not a significant factor with 120 v circuits. With 12 v systems, the voltage loss due to resistance is the primary concern as that usually becomes the more important factor before amp load becomes an issue:

Here's an excerpt from the chart in the magazine -- note that current and resistance are calculated from a combination of different sources ... they're about 24% lower than the National Electric Code but "slightly" higher than figures from the Radio Amateur's Handbook).

AWG       Size (in)        Max Amps      Ohms-per-foot resistance

0000      .53                195               .000051

000        .47                 165              .000064

00          .42                 145              .000089

0            .37                 125              .000102

The size (diameter) is approximate. These are stranded cables, so the size will vary.

To figure the loss in voltage, multiply the resistance (ohms per foot) times  the length (in feet) times the current (in amps). 

Since the maximum amps a 2500 watt inverter uses is about 20 amps at 120 v, the 12 v draw (well, actually 14v for a fully charged battery) would be about 180 amps. That suggests 0000 AWG wire as being the minimum size to use. (is there 5/0 wire available?)

Over a distance of 12 ft, the voltage drop would be .000051* 12 (ft) * 180 = .11016 or about 11% of the voltage. That's about 1.5 volts. As the voltage drops, the inverter will require more amps to output the required 120 vac amps and the wires will soon overheat and exceed the safe margin for the cable.

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

On Jun 11, 2008, at 9:45 PM, David Brady wrote:

Kurt,

Sorry I can't help with the cable size, I'm away from the bus,
but I don't think the inverters are more than 10 to 12ft from
the house batteries. I'll measure it when I have a chance. The
house batteries are behind the tag axle on the curb side. The
inverters are in the second to the last bay next to the toolbox.
I think the cable run is around 10 to 12ft.

David Brady
'02 LXi, NC

bumpersbird wrote:

I have posted two photos from e-bay of a 2000 Blue Bird LXI 43
Wanderlodge, the address is pasted below and I have these photos in a
new album in the photo section, named 1111AaRv3012M

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&category=50056&viewitem=&item=110260798370&_trksid=p3907.m29

If the inverters cannot be more than 12' from the batteries, how does
this system work on a 2000 LXI ?????????????????????????

[David Brady]

I measure 14 ft.



David

'02 LXi, NC



brad barton wrote:

I don't have my coach with me anymore, either, but my inverters
are placed slightly aft of mid-coach so the 20' length might be pretty
close.



BradBarton00LXiDFW bbartonwx@hotmail.com

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[pgchd]

I have a 95 42'. Two years ago I needed to replace the inverters,
Xantrex had a sale on 458's 2500W, same size as the Heart OEM's, so I
used them. I contemplated the move to the bay where the tool box is,
curb side, but in the end I used the original location. My "logic"
was I am in there anyway with a "blower" cleaning the batteries,
checking the water level, etc so "cleaning" the inverter box in not an
additional task. 2 1/2 years later no issues and the originals lasted
10 years with no cleaning effort by the prior owner. Also, I am a
"cheapskate" and was able to remove the original cables off the hearts
and reuse on the 458's. The original inverters would have lasted
longer if not for a "dumb move" on my part, user error. I've noticed
on the various for sale websites indeed they made the move about 96
sometime so they do work in the bay location. The 458's are the
"replacements" for the Hearts 2500's and I do not know the difference
between what you have and the 458's....looked at the website and still
can't tell. Anyway my 458 manual says keep the cable length at 10 feet
or shorter, if 10 feet and it is a 3000 Watt unit (I think you said
your is) then cable thickness is 4/0..... a big honkin cable. The
cable guide(owners manual) for the 458's in online so you can double
check me and it lists all wattages, I selected the numbers above based
on what I"think" you said, 3000 watts, you should validate......
getting old! :-)
Pete, Donna, and Lucky bear Chin
95 42' greater Daytona Beach area






--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bumpersbird"
wrote:
>
> David
>
> Is that along the out side of the coach?
>
> One problem I have is my inverters are side by side, which adds a
> foot or so to one of the runs. What size cable is on your inverters?
>
> Kurt
> 95 PT-423
> 10AC
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, David Brady
> wrote:
> >
> > I measure 14 ft.
> >
> > David
> > '02 LXi, NC
> >
> > brad barton wrote:
> > >
> > > I don't have my coach with me anymore, either, but my inverters
> are
> > > placed slightly aft of mid-coach so the 20' length might be
> pretty
> > > close.
> > >
> > > Brad Barton 00LXiDFW bbartonwx@
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Search
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> > >
> > > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > > Checked by AVG.
> > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1498 - Release Date:
> 6/11/2008 7:13 PM
> > >
> >
>