steering box

[Tom Meservey]

HAHAHAHAHA welllllllllllllllllll duhhhhhhhhhh, if you DON'T remove the
Captain's chair you had best be a gnome, because you will play hell pulling up
the carpet otherwise.....somethings are just self-evident. But it falls in line
with directions I saw this past winter.

First: open box
Second: take item out of box
Third: with a sharp instrument bemove plastic from around item
Fourth: yell for wife
Fifth: at the same time as trying to remove sharp item from palm of the hand,
attempt to prevent blood from spewing on carpet

hahahahaha.

So please be careful, that chair is heavy.

Tom Meservey, USN (Ret)
Ladson, SC


---------------------------------
You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck
in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[bubblerboy64]

My bus is in the shop as we speak sorting our suspension and handling
issues. The fellows have told me that they have things in pretty
good order but are concerned about some "free travel" which they have
traced to the steering box. Now here is the issue. This steering box
was a rebuilt box which the previous owner replaced about 20K miles
ago. (The previous owner said this greatly improved the handling.)
The guys are telling me that my options are to live with this free
travel or get another remanufactured steering box. My concern is
that I might get another only to find its no better then the one I
have now. My fellows are also not really familiar with BB's and I
wonder if they are expection the impossible with this old FC? Any
suggestions or tricks which I might pass on to the shop. They did
say there was some type of adjustment that they were going to try to
make but it was "tricky" if they went just a little too far then the
steering would potentially have a tight spot or a hitch in it.( I may
not have that exactly right as to their discription but you likely
get the point. They said what they were going to adjust but that
didn't stick in the ole knoggin) The shop works on RV's and heavy
equipment and is very well respected. They don't see a lot of BB'ds
so if there is any thing I can pass along they are more then willing
for my information.

John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC

[Curt Sprenger]

John,

Ask the shop to get under the bus and tighten up about 13 or 14 bolt/nuts...the ones that hold the plate(s) assemble (starting at the coach frame) that the steering box is bolted. Many of us have done that and have reduced steering play. I did that on our previous 'Bird, 1974, and that took care of about 80 percents of the play (free travel). A visual inspection of those bolts/nuts is not good enough. They will look tight when they are not. They need to put wrenches on them and tighten them. The steering box can also be tightened up to the plate assemble.

On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 1:10 AM, bubblerboy64 <"jehdds@hotmail.com"> wrote:

My bus is in the shop as we speak sorting our suspension and handling

issues. The fellows have told me that they have things in pretty

good order but are concerned about some "free travel" which they have

traced to the steering box. Now here is the issue. This steering box

was a rebuilt box which the previous owner replaced about 20K miles

ago. (The previous owner said this greatly improved the handling.)

The guys are telling me that my options are to live with this free

travel or get another remanufactured steering box. My concern is

that I might get another only to find its no better then the one I

have now. My fellows are also not really familiar with BB's and I

wonder if they are expection the impossible with this old FC? Any

suggestions or tricks which I might pass on to the shop. They did

say there was some type of adjustment that they were going to try to

make but it was "tricky" if they went just a little too far then the

steering would potentially have a tight spot or a hitch in it.( I may

not have that exactly right as to their discription but you likely

get the point. They said what they were going to adjust but that

didn't stick in the ole knoggin) The shop works on RV's and heavy

equipment and is very well respected. They don't see a lot of BB'ds

so if there is any thing I can pass along they are more then willing

for my information.



John Heckman

central Pa

1973 FC

--
Curt Sprenger
1987 PT38 8V92 "MacAttack Racing"
Anaheim Hills, CA

[bubblerboy64]

Thanks Curt, That is exactly the type of information I am looking
for. Will do.
John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC
>
> John,
>
> Ask the shop to get under the bus and tighten up about 13 or 14
> bolt/nuts...the ones that hold the plate(s) assemble (starting at
the coach
> frame) that the steering box is bolted. Many of us have done that
and have
> reduced steering play. I did that on our previous 'Bird, 1974, and
that took
> care of about 80 percents of the play (free travel). A visual
inspection of
> those bolts/nuts is not good enough. They will look tight when they
are not.
> They need to put wrenches on them and tighten them. The steering
box can
> also be tightened up to the plate assemble.
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 1:10 AM, bubblerboy64 wrote:
>
> > My bus is in the shop as we speak sorting our suspension and
handling
> > issues. The fellows have told me that they have things in pretty
> > good order but are concerned about some "free travel" which they
have
> > traced to the steering box. Now here is the issue. This steering
box
> > was a rebuilt box which the previous owner replaced about 20K
miles
> > ago. (The previous owner said this greatly improved the handling.)
> > The guys are telling me that my options are to live with this free
> > travel or get another remanufactured steering box. My concern is
> > that I might get another only to find its no better then the one I
> > have now. My fellows are also not really familiar with BB's and I
> > wonder if they are expection the impossible with this old FC? Any
> > suggestions or tricks which I might pass on to the shop. They did
> > say there was some type of adjustment that they were going to try
to
> > make but it was "tricky" if they went just a little too far then
the
> > steering would potentially have a tight spot or a hitch in it.( I
may
> > not have that exactly right as to their discription but you likely
> > get the point. They said what they were going to adjust but that
> > didn't stick in the ole knoggin) The shop works on RV's and heavy
> > equipment and is very well respected. They don't see a lot of
BB'ds
> > so if there is any thing I can pass along they are more then
willing
> > for my information.
> >
> > John Heckman
> > central Pa
> > 1973 FC
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Curt Sprenger
> 1987 PT38 8V92 "MacAttack Racing"
> Anaheim Hills, CA
>

[Chet Geist]

John,

I have been looking into improving my steering also. While seeing that all is tight I have been told by Blue Bird that the steering box (Ross HF654) used on my coach was referred to as a dump truck steering box and that play is normal and very little could be done to improve it. One Ross representative told me that a HFB64 box was much better and some of the people at Blue Bird indicated this was the box used on later model FCs to improve the steering. Blue Bird told me that they did change a few coaches to this new box and about 40 hours of labor a well as some modification were required. That is when I decided to live with what I had.

Chet Geist

1981 FC33, Austin, Texas

-----Original Message-----
From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of bubblerboy64
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 3:11 AM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Steering box

My bus is in the shop as we speak sorting our suspension and handling
issues. The fellows have told me that they have things in pretty
good order but are concerned about some "free travel" which they have
traced to the steering box. Now here is the issue. This steering box
was a rebuilt box which the previous owner replaced about 20K miles
ago. (The previous owner said this greatly improved the handling.)
The guys are telling me that my options are to live with this free
travel or get another remanufactured steering box. My concern is
that I might get another only to find its no better then the one I
have now. My fellows are also not really familiar with BB's and I
wonder if they are expection the impossible with this old FC? Any
suggestions or tricks which I might pass on to the shop. They did
say there was some type of adjustment that they were going to try to
make but it was "tricky" if they went just a little too far then the
steering would potentially have a tight spot or a hitch in it.( I may
not have that exactly right as to their discription but you likely
get the point. They said what they were going to adjust but that
didn't stick in the ole knoggin) The shop works on RV's and heavy
equipment and is very well respected. They don't see a lot of BB'ds
so if there is any thing I can pass along they are more then willing
for my information.

John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC

[Gregory OConnor]

If Curt has the cure for the box issue maybe it would be prudent to
have the shop replace all the 14 bolts and nuts (or 7 of the 14)
with larger diamater bolts. maybe go to the next larger size in
metric (may involve less drilling). It would not be a matter of the
mounts and joints lifting. the play would show up in a slide between
flat ajoining surfaces. Curts theory: Several slides would have to
be overcome each time the box's pitman arm changes direction. You
can test for this fault with a Dial indicator
http://www.dialindicator.com/custom_gage_photos.php
or just placing your thumb on the frame up against the steering
mounts and having someone turn the wheel back and forth. the center
of the mounts may show less movement than the four ends as the plate
twists (there should be no movement). Doing this on hot asphalt may
be best as the smooth shop floor will give little turn resistance.
It may be more evident with the rear jacks lifting up the ass. At
the same time input to the box by the steeringwheel should be
evident right away with equal movement at the pinion arm of the box
(that is the play they can adjust with the wrench). I dont
understand " tight spot" as a result of adjusting the box play???
unless they think the gear in the box is worn at the idle mating
surfaces only???? At any event, if wear at the box is the repair,
you still have to find out why it failed once again in only
20K. "box damage may be a result"

If that bolts proves to be at fault, you are at the wrong shop.

One other point to look at is the PS boil over issue the FC crowd
(ForeverCatipillar) has. I often wonder if it is not boiling PS
fluid as much as it is air making its way to the PSpump and
expanding the volume of fluid to the point thet the air pushes the
fluid out the resevoir???? If you get air in hydrolic fluid, the
thing the fluid is moving will have a lag. you can not compress a
volumn of fluid but you can compress air to the point that it
displaces. air would have to build up pressure at each direction
change. If the steering gets worse while you drive, air may be an
issue????? air gets in at return lines or supply lines. those lines
have suction and dont show leaks and never get changed with pressure
lines because they dont have the outward appearance of needing leak
repair.

Folks dont realize how much stress is placed on steering components
when they make a stationary turn (not rolling while changing
direction of your wheels). Watch a commercial driver make a K turn.
at the end of forward movement, the wheels are redirected to that
required for the reverse movement.

GregoryO'Connor
94pt
RomolandCa


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Curt Sprenger"
wrote:
>
> John,
>
> Ask the shop to get under the bus and tighten up about 13 or 14
> bolt/nuts...the ones that hold the plate(s) assemble (starting at
the coach
> frame) that the steering box is bolted. Many of us have done that
and have
> reduced steering play. I did that on our previous 'Bird, 1974, and
that took
> care of about 80 percents of the play (free travel). A visual
inspection of
> those bolts/nuts is not good enough. They will look tight when
they are not.
> They need to put wrenches on them and tighten them. The steering
box can
> also be tightened up to the plate assemble.
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 24, 2008 at 1:10 AM, bubblerboy64 wrote:
>
> > My bus is in the shop as we speak sorting our suspension and
handling
> > issues. The fellows have told me that they have things in pretty
> > good order but are concerned about some "free travel" which they
have
> > traced to the steering box. Now here is the issue. This steering
box
> > was a rebuilt box which the previous owner replaced about 20K
miles
> > ago. (The previous owner said this greatly improved the
handling.)
> > The guys are telling me that my options are to live with this
free
> > travel or get another remanufactured steering box. My concern is
> > that I might get another only to find its no better then the one
I
> > have now. My fellows are also not really familiar with BB's and I
> > wonder if they are expection the impossible with this old FC? Any
> > suggestions or tricks which I might pass on to the shop. They did
> > say there was some type of adjustment that they were going to
try to
> > make but it was "tricky" if they went just a little too far then
the
> > steering would potentially have a tight spot or a hitch in it.(
I may
> > not have that exactly right as to their discription but you
likely
> > get the point. They said what they were going to adjust but that
> > didn't stick in the ole knoggin) The shop works on RV's and heavy
> > equipment and is very well respected. They don't see a lot of
BB'ds
> > so if there is any thing I can pass along they are more then
willing
> > for my information.
> >
> > John Heckman
> > central Pa
> > 1973 FC
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Curt Sprenger
> 1987 PT38 8V92 "MacAttack Racing"
> Anaheim Hills, CA
>

[Gregory OConnor]

If the steering has no play from the tire to the steeringwheel, the
driver will feel every rock and often react to the point that they
will oversteer. when your tires and frontend are balanced and
aligned, you will not notice the float that must be there to
maintain control. Motorcross bikes add 'steering dampeners' to add
the play aiding control. It may be that you will feel better
steering with more play in the box???? Biannualy the State sends
techs to my house with guns and pull me over road side some 5 times
a year to for one thing to check steering mechanics on my dump
truck. I am given no allowance for excessive or lack of play.


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Chet Geist"
wrote:
>
> John,
>
> I have been looking into improving my steering also. While seeing
that all
> is tight I have been told by Blue Bird that the steering box (Ross
HF654)
> used on my coach was referred to as a dump truck steering box and
that play
> is normal and very little could be done to improve it. One Ross
> representative told me that a HFB64 box was much better and some
of the
> people at Blue Bird indicated this was the box used on later model
FCs to
> improve the steering. Blue Bird told me that they did change a few
coaches
> to this new box and about 40 hours of labor a well as some
modification were
> required. That is when I decided to live with what I had.
>
> Chet Geist
> 1981 FC33, Austin, Texas
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of bubblerboy64
> Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 3:11 AM
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Steering box
>
>
> My bus is in the shop as we speak sorting our suspension and
handling
> issues. The fellows have told me that they have things in pretty
> good order but are concerned about some "free travel" which they
have
> traced to the steering box. Now here is the issue. This steering
box
> was a rebuilt box which the previous owner replaced about 20K
miles
> ago. (The previous owner said this greatly improved the
handling.)
> The guys are telling me that my options are to live with this
free
> travel or get another remanufactured steering box. My concern is
> that I might get another only to find its no better then the one
I
> have now. My fellows are also not really familiar with BB's and I
> wonder if they are expection the impossible with this old FC? Any
> suggestions or tricks which I might pass on to the shop. They did
> say there was some type of adjustment that they were going to
try to
> make but it was "tricky" if they went just a little too far then
the
> steering would potentially have a tight spot or a hitch in it.(
I may
> not have that exactly right as to their discription but you
likely
> get the point. They said what they were going to adjust but that
> didn't stick in the ole knoggin) The shop works on RV's and heavy
> equipment and is very well respected. They don't see a lot of
BB'ds
> so if there is any thing I can pass along they are more then
willing
> for my information.
>
> John Heckman
> central Pa
> 1973 FC
>

[bubblerboy64]

Thanks Greg and Chet. I printed out your helpful replies and will
pass them along to the shop for their reading pleasure. Chet, I
certainly know from where you are coming. It is my intention to do
the best I can and to live with the rest. I spoke to another former
FC owner (now has a PT) and he stated that the factory says about 10
years it's time to replace springs. He also reported that when he did
that it helped with keeping her going straight on uneven pavement.
So I believe I am going to do it if the $'s aren't too bad. I've got
this coach quiet, and running well. It deserves what I can do within
reason to make it drive as close to new as is practical. Actually
the handling was never the main issue, it was ride quality. But if
replacing the springs helps both ride and control that would be even
better. Greg, thanks for the heads up on the power steering. I don't
think it does get worse as I drive but I will pay attention to that
as well.
John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC
>
> John,
>
> I have been looking into improving my steering also. While seeing
that all
> is tight I have been told by Blue Bird that the steering box (Ross
HF654)
> used on my coach was referred to as a dump truck steering box and
that play
> is normal and very little could be done to improve it. One Ross
> representative told me that a HFB64 box was much better and some of
the
> people at Blue Bird indicated this was the box used on later model
FCs to
> improve the steering. Blue Bird told me that they did change a few
coaches
> to this new box and about 40 hours of labor a well as some
modification were
> required. That is when I decided to live with what I had.
>
> Chet Geist
> 1981 FC33, Austin, Texas
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of bubblerboy64
> Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 3:11 AM
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Steering box
>
>
> My bus is in the shop as we speak sorting our suspension and
handling
> issues. The fellows have told me that they have things in pretty
> good order but are concerned about some "free travel" which they
have
> traced to the steering box. Now here is the issue. This steering
box
> was a rebuilt box which the previous owner replaced about 20K
miles
> ago. (The previous owner said this greatly improved the handling.)
> The guys are telling me that my options are to live with this free
> travel or get another remanufactured steering box. My concern is
> that I might get another only to find its no better then the one I
> have now. My fellows are also not really familiar with BB's and I
> wonder if they are expection the impossible with this old FC? Any
> suggestions or tricks which I might pass on to the shop. They did
> say there was some type of adjustment that they were going to try
to
> make but it was "tricky" if they went just a little too far then
the
> steering would potentially have a tight spot or a hitch in it.( I
may
> not have that exactly right as to their discription but you likely
> get the point. They said what they were going to adjust but that
> didn't stick in the ole knoggin) The shop works on RV's and heavy
> equipment and is very well respected. They don't see a lot of
BB'ds
> so if there is any thing I can pass along they are more then
willing
> for my information.
>
> John Heckman
> central Pa
> 1973 FC
>

[freewill2008]

John - The shop is talking about adjusting the play or "pre-load" on
the steering box's Cross Shaft and Sector Shaft. It makes sense that
these adjustments could be needed after a few miles on a rebuilt box.

Also, re-torqing those mounting bolts mentioned in other posts may
help.

Bob Griesl '84 FC31 WLII WA

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bubblerboy64"
wrote:
>
> My bus is in the shop as we speak sorting our suspension and
handling
> issues. The fellows have told me that they have things in pretty
> good order but are concerned about some "free travel" which they
have
> traced to the steering box. Now here is the issue. This steering
box
> was a rebuilt box which the previous owner replaced about 20K miles
> ago. (The previous owner said this greatly improved the handling.)
> The guys are telling me that my options are to live with this free
> travel or get another remanufactured steering box. My concern is
> that I might get another only to find its no better then the one I
> have now. My fellows are also not really familiar with BB's and I
> wonder if they are expection the impossible with this old FC? Any
> suggestions or tricks which I might pass on to the shop. They did
> say there was some type of adjustment that they were going to try
to
> make but it was "tricky" if they went just a little too far then
the
> steering would potentially have a tight spot or a hitch in it.( I
may
> not have that exactly right as to their discription but you likely
> get the point. They said what they were going to adjust but that
> didn't stick in the ole knoggin) The shop works on RV's and heavy
> equipment and is very well respected. They don't see a lot of BB'ds
> so if there is any thing I can pass along they are more then
willing
> for my information.
>
> John Heckman
> central Pa
> 1973 FC
>

[Chuck Wheeler]

When I had my steering box rebuilt I discovered that there were two different boxes used in the FC. The older one has much more "free play" than the newer design. The difference is in the spool valve design.If the steering wheel input shaft movesup and down when you move the wheel with the engine off you have the older design. It's not really mechanical free play but the amount of movement requires for the hydraulic system to react. At the time we had ours rebuilt there were none of the newer design available to see if they were interchangeable. With the rebuilt steering box, new tie rod ends, and bushings in the front end suspension (totally gone) our FC handles very well now. There is still the free play, but not slack, in the steering system. Nowon a straight road there is very little correction required. You want to be careful adjusting the sector shaft preload, it is done with the box unloaded using a torque wrench on the input shaft. Many people mistake eliminating free play with putting the steering box in a bind which increases wear. The seals were worn out in our steering box, but all other parts were in good condition. We are all used to rack and pinion steering in our cars. Drive a 50s or early 60s vehicle that have steering boxes andthey havemuch the same feeling as our FCs.

- Chuck Wheeler-

FC 31SB Fort Worth TX

---

From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubblerboy64
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 3:11 AM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Steering box

My bus is in the shop as we speak sorting our suspension and handling
issues. The fellows have told me that they have things in pretty
good order but are concerned about some "free travel" which they have
traced to the steering box. Now here is the issue. This steering box
was a rebuilt box which the previous owner replaced about 20K miles
ago. (The previous owner said this greatly improved the handling.)
The guys are telling me that my options are to live with this free
travel or get another remanufactured steering box. My concern is
that I might get another only to find its no better then the one I
have now. My fellows are also not really familiar with BB's and I
wonder if they are expection the impossible with this old FC? Any
suggestions or tricks which I might pass on to the shop. They did
say there was some type of adjustment that they were going to try to
make but it was "tricky" if they went just a little too far then the
steering would potentially have a tight spot or a hitch in it.( I may
not have that exactly right as to their discription but you likely
get the point. They said what they were going to adjust but that
didn't stick in the ole knoggin) The shop works on RV's and heavy
equipment and is very well respected. They don't see a lot of BB'ds
so if there is any thing I can pass along they are more then willing
for my information.

John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC