Old or Older?

[richafranco]

Fred,

Put down the coffee pot and step away from the computer!

Really, really good info, but I was out of breath by the time I finished. You brought some good points up.big vs. bigger, if I mightparaphrasethe thread I started. This was the first suggestion that smaller might be better and I agree with your arguments for it. I never thought about towing a vehicle and staying at 55mph. I mean, I've probably been passed by some of these members and I thought I was speeding!

I've got a '98 Ford Expedition, 2wd, with less than 100k on it and I'm a photographer(www.richfrancophotography.com) and I think I would need a car or truck of somekind to keep the gear in. I'd rather not tow something, but most of the stuff I take photos of, seem to be down these little narrow roads.We've got a 2002 Wv Beetle too, with low miles, maybe that might work, but low ground clearance could be an issue.

I'm open to suggestions! Maybe that's a good thread to start" to tow or not to tow, that is the question"

Thanks,

Rich & Joyce Franco

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Bellows" wrote:
>
> Rich,
> as Pete said, you'll probably get about 886 opinions, and
> here's mine, so, …883 to go. Ryan and Pete like the big coach
> concept. Apparently most people do, since once they started making them
> in the 90's, they never made small ones again. I, however, decided
> on a smaller coach. It's true you can take more stuff along with a
> big one, but consider where you may want to take it. Many parks limit to
> 35'. Many roads have weight limits and speed limits for vehicles
> with trailers. Various spots around this country still have shorter
> height limits, like covered bridges, etc. And just maneuvering around
> parking lots and such can require a strategy session with a big rig and
> toad. I was like you, knowing I wanted a Blue Bird, because they are
> clearly the best engineered and built coaches, with serviceable,
> redundant systems of quality components, but not knowing which one. I
> wanted to spend around $50k. Wanted to have a rear engine for quiet
> ride. Wanted a modern exterior look. Wanted a light-colored interior
> with an open floorplan that allowed inter-action between dinette and
> livingroom. Wanted a single rear axle and low enough weight to not be
> restricted on hardly any roads. Wanted length to not restrict staying in
> hardly any campgrounds. Wanted 300 horsepower to get up a mountain (in
> the same day I started!) Wanted a bath that could be easily accessed
> from front or rear when we had guests staying on the comfortable
> pull-out couch. In other words a side bath normally, but then a
> double-door center bath when needed! Wanted a mid-entry door, with a
> screen door. Wanted the kitchen sink to face the "patio" side.
> Didn't want the extra 6" of width because to have it on the
> inside, unfortunately it's on the outside too! Didn't want to
> tow a "toad", because I didn't want to be limited to 55mph
> on a lot of roads, and I like to be able to back up when needed. So I
> got a motorcycle lift and large Vespa scooter (see pics by my signature-
> also see that there's another SP photo album on that bluebirdzoom
> site, as well. and Pete's PT42). Wanted a quiet, smooth, generator, far
> from the bedroom for boondocking in the summer in the desert. I looked
> at all the Wanderlodges, and discovered that I wanted an SP! SP's
> are the little orphan `Birds that were only made for 3 yrs, starting
> in '89, and are single axle ("SP" "single axle,
> pusher"). They were only made in a 36'version, and so we
> don't even have to say "SP36" – just "SP"! They
> have been nick named by some, the "corvette of the Blue Birds"
> due to their short wheel base, relatively low weight of 35,000 lbs, and
> 300 HP. I'm not sure how many were made, but you can still see them
> for sale from time to time, but they tend to go quick. I'm sure in
> this current climate you'd find one though. And cheap. So, consider
> an SP as well, -`just to confuse you further. `My two cents.
> Well, expect the other 883 opinions soon.
>
>
>
>
>
> \/\/\…Fred
> __________________
> Fred & Wendy Bellows
> Queen Creek, AZ (so.east Phx)
> '90 SP36
> "Maunder Maximum"
> photos of coach and upgrades
> <http://picasaweb.google.com/Bluebirdzoom...erMaximum>
> current location <http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user1.cfm?user=125%20>
>

[Pete Masterson]

Keep in mind, the 55 mph speed limit while towing applies only to certain states. If you are in and/or pass through those states regularly, it will be a consideration.

California, has a 55 mph limit for vehicles towing. Arizona, Nevada, Idaho, Utah, Colorado, Texas, New Mexico and Wyoming do not set a lower limit for vehicles with tow -- and speed limits are up to 75 mph in some of those states.

The reality is, that 60-65 is actually the maximum reasonable speed for a coach (most of the time) anyway. Most of the large tires have a 70 mph rating (something to think about when the speed limit is 75). The REAL factor is that fuel use climbs radically at speeds above 60 or so. With aerodynamics like a brick, higher speeds really bring down fuel efficiency. (My worst recorded mpg is 4.5-- while crossing Wyoming at 70-75 with no tow. That taught me a lesson about time vs. fuel cost.)

I tow a Toyota Camry (about 3200 lbs) and frankly, when I've compared mpg with and without the tow, other variables appeared to be more important. As a practical matter, I can't sort out the difference. I suspect that a heavier tow might generate some data, but wind resistance is the biggest fuel efficiency factor. I don't have much comparison data, since I almost always bring along the tow.

I get my best fuel economy* when I keep the bus in the 55-60 speed range -- which means while I'm in California -- as in most cases, 5-over on the freeway won't bring notice from the CHP, although the passing horde may be annoying, at times. Heck, go the 65 mph speed limit in your car on most CA freeways, and you'll be in the slow lane and even the trucks will be passing.... but that's another story.

My very best mpg was calculated on a trip segment that included the Natchez Trace. The 50 mph speed limit there, plus the slight rolling terrain contributed to keeping 45-50 mph cruising. Got over 7 mpg along there.

As for ground clearance, my Toyota is a standard sedan -- nothing spectacular for ground clearance. Never a problem. Indeed, you _really_ don't want to take one of these off-road anyway. They're +highway+ busses, not intended for rough country. Use your tow vehicle to explore the quaint byways where ground clearance is an issue.

Choice of what to tow is another "depends". Since I didn't want to buy something new, my choices were a 1993 Camry and a 2003 Toyota Echo. Camry (automatic) required a transmission lube pump to tow 4-down. The Echo (only 2300 lbs! -- same as the DD-S-60 engine) could not be converted to tow 4-down with its automatic transmission. (Spouse is shiftless.) So that settled it for me. In practice, the weight difference between the two vehicles is not an issue. The bus tows and I can't tell the performance difference with or without the tow.

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

Photos:

http://picasaweb.google.com/Bluebirdzoom/PeteMasterson#

On May 18, 2009, at 3:00 PM, richafranco wrote:

Fred,

Put down the coffee pot and step away from the computer!

Really, really good info, but I was out of breath by the time I finished. You brought some good points up.big vs. bigger, if I mightparaphrasethe thread I started. This was the first suggestion that smaller might be better and I agree with your arguments for it. I never thought about towing a vehicle and staying at 55mph. I mean, I've probably been passed by some of these members and I thought I was speeding!

I've got a '98 Ford Expedition, 2wd, with less than 100k on it and I'm a photographer(www.richfrancophotography.com) and I think I would need a car or truck of somekind to keep the gear in. I'd rather not tow something, but most of the stuff I take photos of, seem to be down these little narrow roads.We've got a 2002 Wv Beetle too, with low miles, maybe that might work, but low ground clearance could be an issue.

I'm open to suggestions! Maybe that's a good thread to start" to tow or not to tow, that is the question"

[richafranco]

Pete,

Thanks again, good straight forward info. In my mind, I don't see me
speeding along really, more of looking around at what's out there, kinda
guy. Fred's reply was really good, his Vespa is plenty to just get
around, but I would be dragging a lot of camera gear and as I've
mentioned, security is an issue. Example: when I'm out photographing
wherever, I generally pack a few bodies(cameras!) and a few lenses in a
small backback and head out a few hundred yards or maybe even a mile or
two. I usaully have an old moving pad that I throw over my gear that's
left and anybody looking in just sees an ice chest and a messy back. So
I guess I would need to haul something, hardtop, not a jeep with canvas
sides. People can always throw a convenient rock through the glass, but
It's never happened to me out in the parks. It did happen in my driveway
about 20 years ago!

Rich
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Pete Masterson
wrote:
>
> Keep in mind, the 55 mph speed limit while towing applies only to
> certain states. If you are in and/or pass through those states
> regularly, it will be a consideration.
>
> California, has a 55 mph limit for vehicles towing. Arizona, Nevada,
> Idaho, Utah, Colorado, Texas, New Mexico and Wyoming do not set a
> lower limit for vehicles with tow -- and speed limits are up to 75 mph
> in some of those states.
>
> The reality is, that 60-65 is actually the maximum reasonable speed
> for a coach (most of the time) anyway. Most of the large tires have a
> 70 mph rating (something to think about when the speed limit is 75).
> The REAL factor is that fuel use climbs radically at speeds above 60
> or so. With aerodynamics like a brick, higher speeds really bring down
> fuel efficiency. (My worst recorded mpg is 4.5-- while crossing
> Wyoming at 70-75 with no tow. That taught me a lesson about time vs.
> fuel cost.)
>
> I tow a Toyota Camry (about 3200 lbs) and frankly, when I've compared
> mpg with and without the tow, other variables appeared to be more
> important. As a practical matter, I can't sort out the difference. I
> suspect that a heavier tow might generate some data, but wind
> resistance is the biggest fuel efficiency factor. I don't have much
> comparison data, since I almost always bring along the tow.
>
> I get my best fuel economy* when I keep the bus in the 55-60 speed
> range -- which means while I'm in California -- as in most cases, 5-
> over on the freeway won't bring notice from the CHP, although the
> passing horde may be annoying, at times. Heck, go the 65 mph speed
> limit in your car on most CA freeways, and you'll be in the slow lane
> and even the trucks will be passing.... but that's another story.
>
> My very best mpg was calculated on a trip segment that included the
> Natchez Trace. The 50 mph speed limit there, plus the slight rolling
> terrain contributed to keeping 45-50 mph cruising. Got over 7 mpg
> along there.
>
> As for ground clearance, my Toyota is a standard sedan -- nothing
> spectacular for ground clearance. Never a problem. Indeed, you
> _really_ don't want to take one of these off-road anyway. They're
> +highway+ busses, not intended for rough country. Use your tow vehicle
> to explore the quaint byways where ground clearance is an issue.
>
> Choice of what to tow is another "depends". Since I didn't want to buy
> something new, my choices were a 1993 Camry and a 2003 Toyota Echo.
> Camry (automatic) required a transmission lube pump to tow 4-down.
> The Echo (only 2300 lbs! -- same as the DD-S-60 engine) could not be
> converted to tow 4-down with its automatic transmission. (Spouse is
> shiftless.) So that settled it for me. In practice, the weight
> difference between the two vehicles is not an issue. The bus tows and
> I can't tell the performance difference with or without the tow.
>
> Pete Masterson
> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> El Sobrante CA
> aeonix1@...
> Photos:
> http://picasaweb.google.com/Bluebirdzoom/PeteMasterson#
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 18, 2009, at 3:00 PM, richafranco wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Fred,
> >
> > Put down the coffee pot and step away from the computer!
> >
> > Really, really good info, but I was out of breath by the time I
> > finished. You brought some good points up.big vs. bigger, if I
> > might paraphrase the thread I started. This was the first suggestion
> > that smaller might be better and I agree with your arguments for it.
> > I never thought about towing a vehicle and staying at 55mph. I mean,
> > I've probably been passed by some of these members and I thought I
> > was speeding!
> >
> > I've got a '98 Ford Expedition, 2wd, with less than 100k on it and
> > I'm a photographer(http://www.richfrancophotography.com) and I think I
> > would need a car or truck of somekind to keep the gear in. I'd
> > rather not tow something, but most of the stuff I take photos of,
> > seem to be down these little narrow roads. We've got a 2002 Wv
> > Beetle too, with low miles, maybe that might work, but low ground
> > clearance could be an issue.
> >
> > I'm open to suggestions! Maybe that's a good thread to start" to tow
> > or not to tow, that is the question"
> >
>

[Pete Masterson]

As a one-time "advanced amateur" photographer (had the whole dark room, etc. and fiddled with reversal chemistry color slide-to-prints many years ago). All I can say is thank goodness for Photoshop and digital cameras. I do understand the need for security with cameras.

If your Expedition is a stick, you can probably tow it without a big deal. You need (1) base plate - the attachment to the vehicle; (2) tow bar (vehicle to bus); (3) supplemental braking system (required for most states). Some vehicles can't be towed "4-down" and would require a modification (such as a drive shaft release or (as in my case) a transmission lube pump. Motorhome magazine has an annual "dinghy guide" that you can download at their web site. Get the '98 edition (if it's available) to check your Expedition.

Visit Blue Ox to get info on base plates and tow bars (there are other good brands as well).

Visit Remcotowing.com and check out their recommendations. (They say 1997-2002 Expedition, 2WD may be towed 4-down with a drive shaft coupling. Need your specific engine to say what model coupling.)

I note that the drive shaft coupling can run about $1000 installed -- same ball park as the lube pump I needed. The calculation is a matter of comparing the cost of a new car that's towable with the cost of modifying an old car. In the case of my Toyota, it was paid for and it is reliable. It's old enough that I'm not at all worried about theinevitabledings that go with being towed. It just didn't make sense to spend thousands for a newer car when the old Toyota was still going strong.

As for the VW, the Remco site states that all manual transmissions may be towed as is, in neutral. Automatics may not be towed, but must use a dolly. (You REALLY don't want a dolly.)

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

Photos:

http://picasaweb.google.com/Bluebirdzoom/PeteMasterson#

On May 18, 2009, at 3:59 PM, richafranco wrote:

<snip>

On May 18, 2009, at 3:00 PM, richafranco wrote:

Fred,

Put down the coffee pot and step away from the computer!

Really, really good info, but I was out of breath by the time I

finished. You brought some good points up.big vs. bigger, if I

might paraphrase the thread I started. This was the first suggestion

that smaller might be better and I agree with your arguments for it.

I never thought about towing a vehicle and staying at 55mph. I mean,

I've probably been passed by some of these members and I thought I

was speeding!

I've got a '98 Ford Expedition, 2wd, with less than 100k on it and

I'm a photographer(www.richfrancophotography.com) and I think I

would need a car or truck of somekind to keep the gear in. I'd

rather not tow something, but most of the stuff I take photos of,

seem to be down these little narrow roads. We've got a 2002 Wv

Beetle too, with low miles, maybe that might work, but low ground

clearance could be an issue.

I'm open to suggestions! Maybe that's a good thread to start" to tow

or not to tow, that is the question"

<snip>

[Ryan Wright]

Rich,

The Wanderlodges I'm familiar with are the FCs (Forward Control -
engine up front), PTs (Pusher w/Tag axle) and SPs (no idea what it
stands for). They are all very nice coaches. The SPs are a little
smaller, I think they only made them up to 36 feet, and they have a
center-side entry door vs. the front-side door on the PTs.

I prefer the rear engine. The coach is very quiet up front going down
the road (unless the front-mounted generator is running). Flip side
is, you can't hear what the engine is doing all that well so you
really need to keep an eye on your gauges.

It is a buyer's market right now, big time. A very good time to buy a
coach. Terrible time to be selling one. I've seen some nice coaches
listed on eBay with no reserve and selling at incredibly low prices
vs. a year ago. Watch what you buy, learn as much as you can, and if
you can have another owner go with you to help you inspect any
potential purchase, do so. Personally, I'd spend a little more money
to get a well maintained coach (and that's exactly what I did).
Usually cheap = problems and you could quickly turn this dream into a
very costly nightmare. Think "stranded and needing $30,000 to replace
the engine" bad, or having to put in a $10k generator, etc. If a coach
has a lot of little things wrong with it, be very concerned. This
indicates a general lack of maintenance in my opinion and I'd stay
away - bigger problems are probably lurking under the surface. Don't
buy a "fixer upper" under any circumstances.

-Ryan
'86 PT-40 8V92

On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 8:37 AM, richafranco wrote:
>
>
> Ryan,
>
> Thanks for the good info. But what is a SP? A longer version maybe? Space
> and storage will be an issue. I had a friend a few years ago, who lived on a
> 34' sailboat and I remember him talking about Christmas presents for his
> wife and 2 teenagers. I came down to what would fit and maybe what they
> would have to get rid of to make space! I'm sure this is a typical
> conversation in the RV world.
>
> As far as the driving part, I've driven trucks in the past for a living and
> should pick up the skills pretty quickly, I hope. What about the motor in
> the front vs. the back debates?
>
> Rich

[richafranco]

Pete,

I'll second that about PhotoShop and digital cameras! I first started
out as a small lab, doing Cibachrome prints for the pros in my area. I
hate to think what's in my lungs from that!

Expedition and VW both auto. How about a trailer?

Rich
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Pete Masterson
wrote:
>
> As a one-time "advanced amateur" photographer (had the whole dark
> room, etc. and fiddled with reversal chemistry color slide-to-prints
> many years ago). All I can say is thank goodness for Photoshop and
> digital cameras. I do understand the need for security with cameras.
>
> If your Expedition is a stick, you can probably tow it without a big
> deal. You need (1) base plate - the attachment to the vehicle; (2) tow
> bar (vehicle to bus); (3) supplemental braking system (required for
> most states). Some vehicles can't be towed "4-down" and would require
> a modification (such as a drive shaft release or (as in my case) a
> transmission lube pump. Motorhome magazine has an annual "dinghy
> guide" that you can download at their web site. Get the '98 edition
> (if it's available) to check your Expedition.
>
> Visit Blue Ox to get info on base plates and tow bars (there are other
> good brands as well).
>
> Visit Remcotowing.com and check out their recommendations. (They say
> 1997-2002 Expedition, 2WD may be towed 4-down with a drive shaft
> coupling. Need your specific engine to say what model coupling.)
>
> I note that the drive shaft coupling can run about $1000 installed --
> same ball park as the lube pump I needed. The calculation is a matter
> of comparing the cost of a new car that's towable with the cost of
> modifying an old car. In the case of my Toyota, it was paid for and it
> is reliable. It's old enough that I'm not at all worried about the
> inevitable dings that go with being towed. It just didn't make sense
> to spend thousands for a newer car when the old Toyota was still going
> strong.
>
> As for the VW, the Remco site states that all manual transmissions may
> be towed as is, in neutral. Automatics may not be towed, but must use
> a dolly. (You REALLY don't want a dolly.)
>
> Pete Masterson
> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> El Sobrante CA
> aeonix1@...
> Photos:
> http://picasaweb.google.com/Bluebirdzoom/PeteMasterson#
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 18, 2009, at 3:59 PM, richafranco wrote:
>
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >> On May 18, 2009, at 3:00 PM, richafranco wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Fred,
> >>>
> >>> Put down the coffee pot and step away from the computer!
> >>>
> >>> Really, really good info, but I was out of breath by the time I
> >>> finished. You brought some good points up.big vs. bigger, if I
> >>> might paraphrase the thread I started. This was the first
suggestion
> >>> that smaller might be better and I agree with your arguments for
it.
> >>> I never thought about towing a vehicle and staying at 55mph. I
mean,
> >>> I've probably been passed by some of these members and I thought I
> >>> was speeding!
> >>>
> >>> I've got a '98 Ford Expedition, 2wd, with less than 100k on it and
> >>> I'm a photographer(http://www.richfrancophotography.com) and I think I
> >>> would need a car or truck of somekind to keep the gear in. I'd
> >>> rather not tow something, but most of the stuff I take photos of,
> >>> seem to be down these little narrow roads. We've got a 2002 Wv
> >>> Beetle too, with low miles, maybe that might work, but low ground
> >>> clearance could be an issue.
> >>>
> >>> I'm open to suggestions! Maybe that's a good thread to start" to
tow
> >>> or not to tow, that is the question"
> >>>
> <snip>
>

[richafranco]

Ryan,

Thanks for the info. $30,000 engine! Ouch!!! I have been lurking around
eBay and other sites, more for the education and learning process. I
would have to agree with you about the market. I've seen some pretty
nice looking coaches going for less than what I paid for my 98
Expedition!

By the way, I visited your web site and I would have to say: Hovercraft,
Fieros, DeLorean and Wanderlodges!! What no interest in the Space
Shuttle, slacker!!

Rich
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Ryan Wright
wrote:
>
> Rich,
>
> The Wanderlodges I'm familiar with are the FCs (Forward Control -
> engine up front), PTs (Pusher w/Tag axle) and SPs (no idea what it
> stands for). They are all very nice coaches. The SPs are a little
> smaller, I think they only made them up to 36 feet, and they have a
> center-side entry door vs. the front-side door on the PTs.
>
> I prefer the rear engine. The coach is very quiet up front going down
> the road (unless the front-mounted generator is running). Flip side
> is, you can't hear what the engine is doing all that well so you
> really need to keep an eye on your gauges.
>
> It is a buyer's market right now, big time. A very good time to buy a
> coach. Terrible time to be selling one. I've seen some nice coaches
> listed on eBay with no reserve and selling at incredibly low prices
> vs. a year ago. Watch what you buy, learn as much as you can, and if
> you can have another owner go with you to help you inspect any
> potential purchase, do so. Personally, I'd spend a little more money
> to get a well maintained coach (and that's exactly what I did).
> Usually cheap = problems and you could quickly turn this dream into a
> very costly nightmare. Think "stranded and needing $30,000 to replace
> the engine" bad, or having to put in a $10k generator, etc. If a coach
> has a lot of little things wrong with it, be very concerned. This
> indicates a general lack of maintenance in my opinion and I'd stay
> away - bigger problems are probably lurking under the surface. Don't
> buy a "fixer upper" under any circumstances.
>
> -Ryan
> '86 PT-40 8V92
>
> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 8:37 AM, richafranco BigRichPho@... wrote:
> >
> >
> > Ryan,
> >
> > Thanks for the good info. But what is a SP? A longer version maybe?
Space
> > and storage will be an issue. I had a friend a few years ago, who
lived on a
> > 34' sailboat and I remember him talking about Christmas presents for
his
> > wife and 2 teenagers. I came down to what would fit and maybe what
they
> > would have to get rid of to make space! I'm sure this is a typical
> > conversation in the RV world.
> >
> > As far as the driving part, I've driven trucks in the past for a
living and
> > should pick up the skills pretty quickly, I hope. What about the
motor in
> > the front vs. the back debates?
> >
> > Rich
>

[Pete Masterson]

The Expedition can be fitted with a drive shaft unlock -- and that's the way I'd go. Once installed, you simply flip a lever to lock (to drive) or unlock (to tow) and it's not a problem.

Using a dolly (front wheels, front wheel drive cars, only) or a trailer is another solution. Either will add a bunch of weight (weight = fuel use) and then you have to hassle around with the trailer or dolly in camp grounds. With a trailer and most dollies, you can back up, if necessary, while with 4-down, backing up is very limited (4 to 6 ft. max and rarely advised).

In retrospect, I really want to thank those who talked me out of getting a dolly. I've now watched quite a few folks hassling with them (rain, dark) and it's no picnic. It's much less trouble to work with the tow bar and a 4-down car.

If you're into scooters or a motorcycle -- that's another alternative. But, weather, carrying capacity, and safety are issues to consider for that choice.

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

Photos:

http://picasaweb.google.com/Bluebirdzoom/PeteMasterson#

On May 19, 2009, at 8:33 AM, richafranco wrote:

Pete,

I'll second that about PhotoShop and digital cameras! I first started
out as a small lab, doing Cibachrome prints for the pros in my area. I
hate to think what's in my lungs from that!

Expedition and VW both auto. How about a trailer?

Rich
--- In "WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com", Pete Masterson
wrote:

As a one-time "advanced amateur" photographer (had the whole dark

room, etc. and fiddled with reversal chemistry color slide-to-prints

many years ago). All I can say is thank goodness for Photoshop and

digital cameras. I do understand the need for security with cameras.

If your Expedition is a stick, you can probably tow it without a big

deal. You need (1) base plate - the attachment to the vehicle; (2) tow

bar (vehicle to bus); (3) supplemental braking system (required for

most states). Some vehicles can't be towed "4-down" and would require

a modification (such as a drive shaft release or (as in my case) a

transmission lube pump. Motorhome magazine has an annual "dinghy

guide" that you can download at their web site. Get the '98 edition

(if it's available) to check your Expedition.

Visit Blue Ox to get info on base plates and tow bars (there are other

good brands as well).

Visit Remcotowing.com and check out their recommendations. (They say

1997-2002 Expedition, 2WD may be towed 4-down with a drive shaft

coupling. Need your specific engine to say what model coupling.)

I note that the drive shaft coupling can run about $1000 installed --

same ball park as the lube pump I needed. The calculation is a matter

of comparing the cost of a new car that's towable with the cost of

modifying an old car. In the case of my Toyota, it was paid for and it

is reliable. It's old enough that I'm not at all worried about the

inevitable dings that go with being towed. It just didn't make sense

to spend thousands for a newer car when the old Toyota was still going

strong.

As for the VW, the Remco site states that all manual transmissions may

be towed as is, in neutral. Automatics may not be towed, but must use

a dolly. (You REALLY don't want a dolly.)

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

aeonix1@...

Photos:

http://picasaweb.google.com/Bluebirdzoom/PeteMasterson#

On May 18, 2009, at 3:59 PM, richafranco wrote:

<snip>

On May 18, 2009, at 3:00 PM, richafranco wrote:

Fred,

Put down the coffee pot and step away from the computer!

Really, really good info, but I was out of breath by the time I

finished. You brought some good points up.big vs. bigger, if I

might paraphrase the thread I started. This was the first

suggestion

that smaller might be better and I agree with your arguments for

it.

I never thought about towing a vehicle and staying at 55mph. I

mean,

I've probably been passed by some of these members and I thought I

was speeding!

I've got a '98 Ford Expedition, 2wd, with less than 100k on it and

I'm a photographer(www.richfrancophotography.com) and I think I

would need a car or truck of somekind to keep the gear in. I'd

rather not tow something, but most of the stuff I take photos of,

seem to be down these little narrow roads. We've got a 2002 Wv

Beetle too, with low miles, maybe that might work, but low ground

clearance could be an issue.

I'm open to suggestions! Maybe that's a good thread to start" to

tow

or not to tow, that is the question"

<snip>

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[richafranco]

Pete,

Thanks for the info. I'll look into the shaft lock. Other than it's
bigger than I really need, it's in my driveway and paid off! It's got
the clearance and nice big tires, for a car, not a bus, 265-70-16 and
they work almost as good as 4wd. AND the car hardly ever makes mistakes
anymore!

Rich
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Pete Masterson
wrote:
>
> The Expedition can be fitted with a drive shaft unlock -- and that's
> the way I'd go. Once installed, you simply flip a lever to lock (to
> drive) or unlock (to tow) and it's not a problem.
>
> Using a dolly (front wheels, front wheel drive cars, only) or a
> trailer is another solution. Either will add a bunch of weight (weight
> = fuel use) and then you have to hassle around with the trailer or
> dolly in camp grounds. With a trailer and most dollies, you can back
> up, if necessary, while with 4-down, backing up is very limited (4 to
> 6 ft. max and rarely advised).
>
> In retrospect, I really want to thank those who talked me out of
> getting a dolly. I've now watched quite a few folks hassling with them
> (rain, dark) and it's no picnic. It's much less trouble to work with
> the tow bar and a 4-down car.
>
> If you're into scooters or a motorcycle -- that's another alternative.
> But, weather, carrying capacity, and safety are issues to consider for
> that choice.
>
> Pete Masterson
> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> El Sobrante CA
> aeonix1@...
> Photos:
> http://picasaweb.google.com/Bluebirdzoom/PeteMasterson#
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 19, 2009, at 8:33 AM, richafranco wrote:
>
> >
> > Pete,
> >
> > I'll second that about PhotoShop and digital cameras! I first
started
> > out as a small lab, doing Cibachrome prints for the pros in my area.
I
> > hate to think what's in my lungs from that!
> >
> > Expedition and VW both auto. How about a trailer?
> >
> > Rich
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Pete Masterson aeonix1@
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> As a one-time "advanced amateur" photographer (had the whole dark
> >> room, etc. and fiddled with reversal chemistry color
slide-to-prints
> >> many years ago). All I can say is thank goodness for Photoshop and
> >> digital cameras. I do understand the need for security with
cameras.
> >>
> >> If your Expedition is a stick, you can probably tow it without a
big
> >> deal. You need (1) base plate - the attachment to the vehicle; (2)
> >> tow
> >> bar (vehicle to bus); (3) supplemental braking system (required for
> >> most states). Some vehicles can't be towed "4-down" and would
require
> >> a modification (such as a drive shaft release or (as in my case) a
> >> transmission lube pump. Motorhome magazine has an annual "dinghy
> >> guide" that you can download at their web site. Get the '98 edition
> >> (if it's available) to check your Expedition.
> >>
> >> Visit Blue Ox to get info on base plates and tow bars (there are
> >> other
> >> good brands as well).
> >>
> >> Visit Remcotowing.com and check out their recommendations. (They
say
> >> 1997-2002 Expedition, 2WD may be towed 4-down with a drive shaft
> >> coupling. Need your specific engine to say what model coupling.)
> >>
> >> I note that the drive shaft coupling can run about $1000 installed
--
> >> same ball park as the lube pump I needed. The calculation is a
matter
> >> of comparing the cost of a new car that's towable with the cost of
> >> modifying an old car. In the case of my Toyota, it was paid for and
> >> it
> >> is reliable. It's old enough that I'm not at all worried about the
> >> inevitable dings that go with being towed. It just didn't make
sense
> >> to spend thousands for a newer car when the old Toyota was still
> >> going
> >> strong.
> >>
> >> As for the VW, the Remco site states that all manual transmissions
> >> may
> >> be towed as is, in neutral. Automatics may not be towed, but must
use
> >> a dolly. (You REALLY don't want a dolly.)
> >>
> >> Pete Masterson
> >> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> >> El Sobrante CA
> >> aeonix1@
> >> Photos:
> >> http://picasaweb.google.com/Bluebirdzoom/PeteMasterson#
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On May 18, 2009, at 3:59 PM, richafranco wrote:
> >>
> >>>> <snip>
> >>>>
> >>>> On May 18, 2009, at 3:00 PM, richafranco wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Fred,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Put down the coffee pot and step away from the computer!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Really, really good info, but I was out of breath by the time I
> >>>>> finished. You brought some good points up.big vs. bigger, if I
> >>>>> might paraphrase the thread I started. This was the first
> > suggestion
> >>>>> that smaller might be better and I agree with your arguments for
> > it.
> >>>>> I never thought about towing a vehicle and staying at 55mph. I
> > mean,
> >>>>> I've probably been passed by some of these members and I thought
I
> >>>>> was speeding!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I've got a '98 Ford Expedition, 2wd, with less than 100k on it
and
> >>>>> I'm a photographer(http://www.richfrancophotography.com) and I think I
> >>>>> would need a car or truck of somekind to keep the gear in. I'd
> >>>>> rather not tow something, but most of the stuff I take photos
of,
> >>>>> seem to be down these little narrow roads. We've got a 2002 Wv
> >>>>> Beetle too, with low miles, maybe that might work, but low
ground
> >>>>> clearance could be an issue.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm open to suggestions! Maybe that's a good thread to start" to
> > tow
> >>>>> or not to tow, that is the question"
> >>>>>
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

[Ryan Wright]

On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 9:02 AM, richafranco wrote:
>
> By the way, I visited your web site and I would have to say: Hovercraft,
> Fieros, DeLorean and Wanderlodges!! What no interest in the Space
> Shuttle, slacker!!

Just haven't figured out a way to afford my own space ship yet. Give
me time... :-)

-Ryan
'86 PT-40 8V92