Wanderlodge Question: electical problems

[cfsomers@...]

> Ryan,
>
> If you haven't already done so, please upload this to the forum. Thanks.
>
> Curt Sprenger
> 1987 PT38 8V92 "MacAttack Racing"
> Anaheim Hills, CA
> *Read all about Southwest Bluebirds and Friends (SWBB) at
> http://www.SOUTHWEST-BLUEBIRDS.ORG ...Then Join us.
> "Host of the Annual Bluebird Quartzsite Rally" *
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 9:51 PM, Ryan Wright
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Pete Masterson
>> >
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Just don't _ever_ get under one without sturdy jack stands for
>> support.
>> > While uncommon, a failure of the jacks or a sudden release of the air
>> bags
>> > can be fatal.
>>
>> ... and has been fatal, to a member of this forum if I recall correctly.
>>
>> Chris, the bird is as easy to maintain as anything else. I'm a
>> decently average backyard mechanic and maintain most of my own coach
>> systems. If you can do basic repairs around the home and know how to
>> use a voltmeter (basic electrical know-how), that accounts for most of
>> your maintenance.
>>
>> Mechanically, it's a big bus, plenty of room to work on things. I am
>> not a big rig mechanic and don't fully understand that part of my
>> coach yet - this is my first diesel - but I'm learning. I've done some
>> basic repairs to my generator (see
>> http://www.ryanwright.com/wanderlodge/sliprings/) and it was
>> relatively easy. I change my own oil, filters, etc, but I'd be lost if
>> I had to deal with something like a non-starting engine. Some day I'll
>> unfortunately have the privilege of learning that, I'm sure.
>>
>> -Ryan
>> '86 PT-40 8V92
>>
>>
>

[cfsomers@...]

I have an 81FCSB35. My starting batteries are always dying after being
parked for a couple of days. The coach was jumped yesterday to get it
started yesterday. Now my gauges are not working as they were before.
Particularly the amp meter. with the ignition turned off it reads nothing.
plugged in the chargers and the meter read normal.

I am looking for direction and/or someone locally who can work on it.

Port Orange, Florida

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. it has been 3 years getting
this titled in Florida and now I would like to be able to use it.

Regards

Chuck Somers
81FCSB35
Port Orange, Florida
cfsomers@...

[freewill2008]

Chuck - Because the coach has apparently been out of service, first have each
battery individually tested by a reputable auto-electic service dealer.

Next, get a little dirty (or hire the work out) and disconnect and clean the
mating surfaces of both ends of all the positive cables, ground cables, and
jumper cables in the battery compartment area. Don't forget the cables to and
from the ammeter shunts. Re-assemble everything shiney clean and tight.

If, with batteries that are tested and known good, and with good cable
connections, you still have trouble, post again or enlist some expert help
locally.

Bob Griesel '84 FC31 WLII WA

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, cfsomers@... wrote:
>
> I have an 81FCSB35. My starting batteries are always dying after being
> parked for a couple of days. The coach was jumped yesterday to get it
> started yesterday. Now my gauges are not working as they were before.
> Particularly the amp meter. with the ignition turned off it reads nothing.
> plugged in the chargers and the meter read normal.
>
> I am looking for direction and/or someone locally who can work on it.
>
> Port Orange, Florida
>
> Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. it has been 3 years getting
> this titled in Florida and now I would like to be able to use it.
>
> Regards
>
> Chuck Somers
> 81FCSB35
> Port Orange, Florida
> cfsomers@...
>

[hippieforever3]

If you don't have them already, buy 2 tools. A clamp-on ammeter (best buy is a
Sears one, under $100) and a good hygrometer.

Check the current draw using the clamp-on ammeter. Don't be surprised if it's
about 5a when you think you have everything off. If its a lot higher, that's
your first project. Find the current draw.

Next top off all battery cells and use a good charger to give them a full charge
individually. Use a setting on the charger that has a cycle to at least 14.5
volts or equalize cycle.

After the individual charge, hook them all together and give them one more
charge. Disconnect them and let them rest about an hour and then test voltages
and each cell with a hygrometer. Voltage differences of more than 0.1v and
hygrometer differences (see hygrometer instructions) mean bad or weak cells.
With 4 - 12v batteries in parallel, there is no way to compensate for a bad
cell. Get out the third tool (credit card) and buy some new batteries.

I spent 2 month screwing with a set of batteries that I had tested at 3
different battery shops on their automated testers as "good" before using this
technique and finally fixing the problem with new batteries.

The automated battery testers are designed to test "cranking amps" and don't
test the ability of batteries to "absorb" and store ampere hours.

If your generator or toad battery could use replacing, buy one that would work
on the battery tray and use that new one for a reference while you are
conducting the voltage and hygrometer tests. It's also really nice to have 5 of
the same batteries because if one of the 4 gets a bad cell, you can sub in the
5th battery and still have a matched set, thus extenting the life of the set
substantially.

BTW - I did find one other argument for using 6 volt batteries while doing all
my battery de-bugging. If you have slightly mismatched cells you may be able to
hook the 6 volt batteries up in a configuration where each 12 volt set is more
closely matched to the other set(s). This will also extend useful life.

Regards,

[Rob Robinson]

What type meter RMS or what????

2009/5/25 hippieforever3 <"debra@ticogps.com">

If you don't have them already, buy 2 tools. A clamp-on ammeter (best buy is a Sears one, under $100) and a good hygrometer.



Check the current draw using the clamp-on ammeter. Don't be surprised if it's about 5a when you think you have everything off. If its a lot higher, that's your first project. Find the current draw.



Next top off all battery cells and use a good charger to give them a full charge individually. Use a setting on the charger that has a cycle to at least 14.5 volts or equalize cycle.



After the individual charge, hook them all together and give them one more charge. Disconnect them and let them rest about an hour and then test voltages and each cell with a hygrometer. Voltage differences of more than 0.1v and hygrometer differences (see hygrometer instructions) mean bad or weak cells. With 4 - 12v batteries in parallel, there is no way to compensate for a bad cell. Get out the third tool (credit card) and buy some new batteries.



I spent 2 month screwing with a set of batteries that I had tested at 3 different battery shops on their automated testers as "good" before using this technique and finally fixing the problem with new batteries.



The automated battery testers are designed to test "cranking amps" and don't test the ability of batteries to "absorb" and store ampere hours.



If your generator or toad battery could use replacing, buy one that would work on the battery tray and use that new one for a reference while you are conducting the voltage and hygrometer tests. It's also really nice to have 5 of the same batteries because if one of the 4 gets a bad cell, you can sub in the 5th battery and still have a matched set, thus extenting the life of the set substantially.



BTW - I did find one other argument for using 6 volt batteries while doing all my battery de-bugging. If you have slightly mismatched cells you may be able to hook the 6 volt batteries up in a configuration where each 12 volt set is more closely matched to the other set(s). This will also extend useful life.



Regards,

--
Rob, Sue and Joey Robinson
94 WLWB

[hippieforever3]

Any clamp-on ammeter will work. They look like they have "lobster claw" pincers
on top.

They range is price from under $50 (junk) to well over $200 (more than you
need).

You want one that has reasonable DC accuracy (=/- 0.5a) up to 40-50 amps where
most of your bus readings will be.

The best accuracy for the $$$ I found was a Sears Craftsman 82369 for $60.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605...ctric\
al+Shop&sName=Multi-Meters%2C+Testers+%26+Accessories

Read the manual (Sears or not) and DO NOT USE AUTORANGING !!! Force the proper
DC voltage or current range.

I found all readings on my bus could change unexpectedly and autoranging will
drive you crazy.

Regards,
GPSGary
1984FC35SB

[cfsomers@...]

Sense my last post, I have taken the starter batteries out. I had already
gone through all the batteries and cleaned all contacts. Upon removing the
batteries, the two 6 volts reminded me of seeing batteries that had frozen
in their past. Taking them in to have them checked tomorrow. Now what i
did find is a inline fusable link that was fried. It is connected to the
house batteries by two wires. It is on the back wall behind the batteries.
if anyone can give what this should be it would be great. Otherwise i am
going to take it to my local NAPA dealer tomorrow and see if they can
figure out what it is.

This i hope will take care of the imediate needs, but i still need to find
out why the starter batteries are draining. I was under the impression
that these were isolated when parked.

Chuck
81FCSB35

> Chuck - Because the coach has apparently been out of service, first have
> each battery individually tested by a reputable auto-electic service
> dealer.
>
> Next, get a little dirty (or hire the work out) and disconnect and clean
> the mating surfaces of both ends of all the positive cables, ground
> cables, and jumper cables in the battery compartment area. Don't forget
> the cables to and from the ammeter shunts. Re-assemble everything shiney
> clean and tight.
>
> If, with batteries that are tested and known good, and with good cable
> connections, you still have trouble, post again or enlist some expert help
> locally.
>
> Bob Griesel '84 FC31 WLII WA
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, cfsomers@... wrote:
>>
>> I have an 81FCSB35. My starting batteries are always dying after being
>> parked for a couple of days. The coach was jumped yesterday to get it
>> started yesterday. Now my gauges are not working as they were before.
>> Particularly the amp meter. with the ignition turned off it reads
>> nothing.
>> plugged in the chargers and the meter read normal.
>>
>> I am looking for direction and/or someone locally who can work on it.
>>
>> Port Orange, Florida
>>
>> Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. it has been 3 years getting
>> this titled in Florida and now I would like to be able to use it.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Chuck Somers
>> 81FCSB35
>> Port Orange, Florida
>> cfsomers@...
>>
>
>
>

[Jon]

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "hippieforever3" wrote:
>
> Any clamp-on ammeter will work. They look like they have "lobster claw"
pincers on top.
>
> They range is price from under $50 (junk) to well over $200 (more than you
need).
>
> You want one that has reasonable DC accuracy (=/- 0.5a) up to 40-50 amps where
most of your bus readings will be.
>
> The best accuracy for the $$$ I found was a Sears Craftsman 82369 for $60.
>
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605...ctric\
al+Shop&sName=Multi-Meters%2C+Testers+%26+Accessories
>
> Read the manual (Sears or not) and DO NOT USE AUTORANGING !!! Force the proper
DC voltage or current range.
>
> I found all readings on my bus could change unexpectedly and autoranging will
drive you crazy.
>
> Regards,
> GPSGary
> 1984FC35SB

Just my two cents on the batterys. I know they are expensive as I just paid out
over 400 dollars for four! But that was my problem and tonight after going out
to check out the battery fill water (I wanted to make sure that they were not
running dry I notice that they did not loose a bit of water over the past two
months!) I guess when those old batterys were going on their way to there final
resting grounds that they need to be attended to more ofter than new ones.
So hope you resolve your battery situation or whatever problem it is-Jon

Rebel Bird 1978 Wanderlodge
>

[freewill2008]

There is a good chance that the fuse link is actually one of the ammeter shunts.
A shunt could be mistaken for a fuse link. It would explain the erratic
ammeter. It is important to figure out why it is burnt in either case because
it takes a lot of power (think potential heat) to fry either a main fuse or a
shunt.

For help, try to find someone who recognizes what fried and can help find the
reason why.

Bob Griesel '84 FC31 WLII WA


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, cfsomers@... wrote:
>
> Sense my last post, I have taken the starter batteries out. I had already
> gone through all the batteries and cleaned all contacts. Upon removing the
> batteries, the two 6 volts reminded me of seeing batteries that had frozen
> in their past. Taking them in to have them checked tomorrow. Now what i
> did find is a inline fusable link that was fried. It is connected to the
> house batteries by two wires. It is on the back wall behind the batteries.
> if anyone can give what this should be it would be great. Otherwise i am
> going to take it to my local NAPA dealer tomorrow and see if they can
> figure out what it is.
>
> This i hope will take care of the imediate needs, but i still need to find
> out why the starter batteries are draining. I was under the impression
> that these were isolated when parked.
>
> Chuck
> 81FCSB35
>
> > Chuck - Because the coach has apparently been out of service, first have
> > each battery individually tested by a reputable auto-electic service
> > dealer.
> >
> > Next, get a little dirty (or hire the work out) and disconnect and clean
> > the mating surfaces of both ends of all the positive cables, ground
> > cables, and jumper cables in the battery compartment area. Don't forget
> > the cables to and from the ammeter shunts. Re-assemble everything shiney
> > clean and tight.
> >
> > If, with batteries that are tested and known good, and with good cable
> > connections, you still have trouble, post again or enlist some expert help
> > locally.
> >
> > Bob Griesel '84 FC31 WLII WA
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, cfsomers@ wrote:
> >>
> >> I have an 81FCSB35. My starting batteries are always dying after being
> >> parked for a couple of days. The coach was jumped yesterday to get it
> >> started yesterday. Now my gauges are not working as they were before.
> >> Particularly the amp meter. with the ignition turned off it reads
> >> nothing.
> >> plugged in the chargers and the meter read normal.
> >>
> >> I am looking for direction and/or someone locally who can work on it.
> >>
> >> Port Orange, Florida
> >>
> >> Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. it has been 3 years getting
> >> this titled in Florida and now I would like to be able to use it.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> Chuck Somers
> >> 81FCSB35
> >> Port Orange, Florida
> >> cfsomers@
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>

[GARY MINKER]

A fuse link in the charging circuit has to be a bit larger than the rated output of the alternator by about 20%. Typically a 150 amp alternator will get a link of 180 amps. If the link is in the drain side to the coach, play it by ear and figure that even with every light on, you won't draw more than 120 amps. 1-0 wire should not be used for more than 150 amps anyway so there you go. I do not see any links in the schematics for my 1985 PT-40 Gary --- On Tue, 5/26/09, freewill2008 wrote: From: freewill2008 Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Wanderlodge Question: electical problems To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, May 26, 2009, 1:32 AM There is a good chance that the fuse link is actually one of the ammeter shunts. A shunt could be mistaken for a fuse link. It would explain the erratic ammeter. It is important to figure out why it is burnt in either case because it takes a lot of power (think potential heat) to fry either a main fuse or a shunt. For help, try to find someone who recognizes what fried and can help find the reason why. Bob Griesel '84 FC31 WLII WA --- In WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com, cfsomers@... wrote: > > Sense my last post, I have taken the starter batteries out. I had already > gone through all the batteries and cleaned all contacts. Upon removing the > batteries, the two 6 volts reminded me of seeing batteries that had frozen > in their past. Taking them in to have them checked tomorrow. Now what i > did find is a inline fusable link that was fried. It is connected to the > house batteries by two wires. It is on the back wall behind the batteries. > if anyone can give what this should be it would be great. Otherwise i am > going to take it to my local NAPA dealer tomorrow and see if they can > figure out what it is. > > This i hope will take care of the imediate needs, but i still need to find > out why the starter batteries are draining. I was under the impression > that these were isolated when parked. > > Chuck > 81FCSB35 > > > Chuck - Because the coach has apparently been out of service, first have > > each battery individually tested by a reputable auto-electic service > > dealer. > > > > Next, get a little dirty (or hire the work out) and disconnect and clean > > the mating surfaces of both ends of all the positive cables, ground > > cables, and jumper cables in the battery compartment area. Don't forget > > the cables to and from the ammeter shunts. Re-assemble everything shiney > > clean and tight. > > > > If, with batteries that are tested and known good, and with good cable > > connections, you still have trouble, post again or enlist some expert help > > locally. > > > > Bob Griesel '84 FC31 WLII WA > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com, cfsomers@ wrote: > >> > >> I have an 81FCSB35. My starting batteries are always dying after being > >> parked for a couple of days. The coach was jumped yesterday to get it > >> started yesterday. Now my gauges are not working as they were before. > >> Particularly the amp meter. with the ignition turned off it reads > >> nothing. > >> plugged in the chargers and the meter read normal. > >> > >> I am looking for direction and/or someone locally who can work on it. > >> > >> Port Orange, Florida > >> > >> Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. it has been 3 years getting > >> this titled in Florida and now I would like to be able to use it. > >> > >> Regards > >> > >> Chuck Somers > >> 81FCSB35 > >> Port Orange, Florida > >> cfsomers@ > >> > > > > > > >