Generator hard start

[davisgr]

I'm still having genny start problems when starting it after it has sat for
days. I have some hot weather driving coming up with guests on board, and am
getting punchy about the possibility of it getting worse. especially after it
always kicking right off.

It seems to turn over fast enough, and it "starts" quick enough but quits
quickly.

My sequence is this:
1)Hit glow plug for 20 seconds. Hit start button with no start. Hit start button
and start but quit after a second or two.

2)Wait a oouple or three minutes and repeat, with it maybe running a second or
two longer this time.

3)Finally on the third or fourth series it will finally lump lump along for a
few seconds but stay on long enough for the fan to kick in and start purring
like a kitten.

Once started it runs great. And it will start great again after it has been
started, even after it has been turned off for up to an hour.

Oil pressure is good. It is about time for a oil and fuel filter change. You
think I should just do that now, or anyone have any other ideas?

Rick Davis
'93 WLSA
in Houston

[Fred Hulse]

Rick

Have you checked or changed the air filter? They have a very short life.

And definitely change the fuel filter.

Fred & Jeanne Hulse
Morristown Arizona
1997 Wanderlodge WLWB41

[Gregory OConnor]

Fred isnt there also a screen in the electric lift pump? if you have been
starting it on a compromised battery the starter motor is probably also shot and
could use a rebuild of the bushing and brushes.
Greg of Tim$Greg
94ptca
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Hulse" wrote:
>
> Rick
> Have you checked or changed the air filter? They have a very short life.
> And definitely change the fuel filter.
> Fred & Jeanne Hulse
> Morristown Arizona
> 1997 Wanderlodge WLWB41
>

[Fred Hulse]

Greg

I think the fuel pump is just a small Facet cube size pump.

Although it may be the old Stewart Warner cylinder style and yes ,that has a filter in it that if ignored will give you fits.

Fred of

Fred & Jeanne Hulse & Girls

[Chuck Wheeler]

Just a idea, but any time I have had a similar problem it was traced to getting air in the fuel system. The last time it was a hose that looked perfectly good until I removed and straightened it out. I proved it first by feeding the fuel pump from a 2 gal fuel can. No matter how long it sat it would start and run perfectly so I knew the fuel was draining back to the tank when diesel was shut down. Then it was just a matter of finding the leak.

- Chuck Wheeler-

1982 FC 31SB Fort Worth TX

---

From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gregory OConnor
Sent: Sunday, July 19, 2009 10:24 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Generator hard start

Fred isnt there also a screen in the electric lift pump? if you have been starting it on a compromised battery the starter motor is probably also shot and could use a rebuild of the bushing and brushes.
Greg of Tim$Greg
94ptca
--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "Fred Hulse" wrote:
>
> Rick
> Have you checked or changed the air filter? They have a very short life.
> And definitely change the fuel filter.
> Fred & Jeanne Hulse
> Morristown Arizona
> 1997 Wanderlodge WLWB41
>

[GARY MINKER]

What is (quits quickly?) If your oil pressure is low, it will drop the engine like a stone. Do you hold the starter in for a few extra seconds and it will start? Is this an oil pressure shut down due to fresh start up? If so, it is not broken. Your engine is clearanced and needs some revs to get the pressure up. --- On Sun, 7/19/09, davisgr wrote: From: davisgr Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Generator hard start To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 9:14 PM I'm still having genny start problems when starting it after it has sat for days. I have some hot weather driving coming up with guests on board, and am getting punchy about the possibility of it getting worse. especially after it always kicking right off. It seems to turn over fast enough, and it "starts" quick enough but quits quickly. My sequence is this: 1)Hit glow plug for 20 seconds. Hit start button with no start. Hit start button and start but quit after a second or two. 2)Wait a oouple or three minutes and repeat, with it maybe running a second or two longer this time. 3)Finally on the third or fourth series it will finally lump lump along for a few seconds but stay on long enough for the fan to kick in and start purring like a kitten. Once started it runs great. And it will start great again after it has been started, even after it has been turned off for up to an hour. Oil pressure is good. It is about time for a oil and fuel filter change. You think I should just do that now, or anyone have any other ideas? Rick Davis '93 WLSA in Houston

[Rick Davis]

Gary, I guess I shouldn't use the phrase "quits quickly", since it never really starts. Itjust sounds like it is trying so hard to start, but just won't stay going that extra second or two. I feel that holding down the starter button longer would help, but I am punchy to hold it down more than a second or two. I played with it again yesterday, andit will start on about the 6th try; two trys at a time before waiting a couple of minutes. I am hitting the glow plug each time I get back to it. It has the big modified air filter on it, and I have ordered a new one from Birtles. Maybe that will help.

Rick Davis

'93 WLSA

in hot Houston for now

---

From: GARY MINKER
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 6:42:11 AM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Generator hard start

What is (quits quickly?) If your oil pressure is low, it will drop the engine like a stone. Do you hold the starter in for a few extra seconds and it will start? Is this an oil pressure shut down due to fresh start up? If so, it is not broken. Your engine is clearanced and needs some revs to get the pressure up. --- On Sun, 7/19/09, davisgr wrote: From: davisgr Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Generator hard start To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 9:14 PM I'm still having genny start problems when starting it after it has sat for days. I have some hot weather driving coming up with guests on board, and am getting punchy about the possibility of it getting worse. especially after it always kicking right off. It seems to turn over fast enough, and it "starts" quick enough but quits quickly. My sequence is this: 1)Hit glow plug for 20 seconds. Hit start button with no start. Hit start button and start but quit after a second or two. 2)Wait a oouple or three minutes and repeat, with it maybe running a second or two longer this time. 3)Finally on the third or fourth series it will finally lump lump along for a few seconds but stay on long enough for the fan to kick in and start purring like a kitten. Once started it runs great. And it will start great again after it has been started, even after it has been turned off for up to an hour. Oil pressure is good. It is about time for a oil and fuel filter change. You think I should just do that now, or anyone have any other ideas? Rick Davis '93 WLSA in Houston

[GARY MINKER]

Sounds like oil pressure or indication to me. I have seen this one before. There are also some relays in the box that hang up plus if the alternator makes no 120/240 it will drop itself as it is all stupidly fail safed through each relay. It can be touchy to troubleshoot but I would go there. You can dummy out the oil sender. You have to know if it is a go high or goes low. --- On Sat, 7/25/09, Rick Davis wrote: From: Rick Davis Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Generator hard start To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 11:04 AM Gary, I guess I shouldn't use the phrase "quits quickly", since it never really starts. Itjust sounds like it is trying so hard to start, but just won't stay going that extra second or two. I feel that holding down the starter button longer would help, but I am punchy to hold it down more than a second or two. I played with it again yesterday, andit will start on about the 6th try; two trys at a time before waiting a couple of minutes. I am hitting the glow plug each time I get back to it. It has the big modified air filter on it, and I have ordered a new one from Birtles. Maybe that will help. Rick Davis '93 WLSA in hot Houston for now From: GARY MINKER To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 6:42:11 AM Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Generator hard start What is (quits quickly?) If your oil pressure is low, it will drop the engine like a stone. Do you hold the starter in for a few extra seconds and it will start? Is this an oil pressure shut down due to fresh start up? If so, it is not broken. Your engine is clearanced and needs some revs to get the pressure up. --- On Sun, 7/19/09, davisgr wrote: From: davisgr Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Generator hard start To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 9:14 PM I'm still having genny start problems when starting it after it has sat for days. I have some hot weather driving coming up with guests on board, and am getting punchy about the possibility of it getting worse. especially after it always kicking right off. It seems to turn over fast enough, and it "starts" quick enough but quits quickly. My sequence is this: 1)Hit glow plug for 20 seconds. Hit start button with no start. Hit start button and start but quit after a second or two. 2)Wait a oouple or three minutes and repeat, with it maybe running a second or two longer this time. 3)Finally on the third or fourth series it will finally lump lump along for a few seconds but stay on long enough for the fan to kick in and start purring like a kitten. Once started it runs great. And it will start great again after it has been started, even after it has been turned off for up to an hour. Oil pressure is good. It is about time for a oil and fuel filter change. You think I should just do that now, or anyone have any other ideas? Rick Davis '93 WLSA in Houston

[Rick Davis]

Thanks for your thoughts Gary,

If it was a relay, wouldn't that mean that it would probably be more inconsistent than it is? It has consistently started after the four to sixth turnover attempt.

Regarding oil pressure; I have oil pressure after it starts of course, but howwould I know if I have any during the start attempts?Shouldthe guage show pressureeven during the attempted startperiod? I've been starting it from outside, but maybe next time I will start it from inside and watch the guage.

Thanks again.

Rick Davis

'93 WLSA

in Houston

---

From: GARY MINKER
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 6:25:20 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Generator hard start

Sounds like oil pressure or indication to me. I have seen this one before. There are also some relays in the box that hang up plus if the alternator makes no 120/240 it will drop itself as it is all stupidly fail safed through each relay. It can be touchy to troubleshoot but I would go there. You can dummy out the oil sender. You have to know if it is a go high or goes low. --- On Sat, 7/25/09, Rick Davis wrote: From: Rick Davis Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Generator hard start To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 11:04 AM Gary, I guess I shouldn't use the phrase "quits quickly", since it never really starts. Itjust sounds like it is trying so hard to start, but just won't stay going that extra second or two. I feel that holding down the starter button longer would help, but I am punchy to hold it down more than a second or two. I played with it again yesterday, andit will start on about the 6th try; two trys at a time before waiting a couple of minutes. I am hitting the glow plug each time I get back to it. It has the big modified air filter on it, and I have ordered a new one from Birtles. Maybe that will help. Rick Davis '93 WLSA in hot Houston for now From: GARY MINKER To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 6:42:11 AM Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Generator hard start What is (quits quickly?) If your oil pressure is low, it will drop the engine like a stone. Do you hold the starter in for a few extra seconds and it will start? Is this an oil pressure shut down due to fresh start up? If so, it is not broken. Your engine is clearanced and needs some revs to get the pressure up. --- On Sun, 7/19/09, davisgr wrote: From: davisgr Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Generator hard start To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 9:14 PM I'm still having genny start problems when starting it after it has sat for days. I have some hot weather driving coming up with guests on board, and am getting punchy about the possibility of it getting worse. especially after it always kicking right off. It seems to turn over fast enough, and it "starts" quick enough but quits quickly. My sequence is this: 1)Hit glow plug for 20 seconds. Hit start button with no start. Hit start button and start but quit after a second or two. 2)Wait a oouple or three minutes and repeat, with it maybe running a second or two longer this time. 3)Finally on the third or fourth series it will finally lump lump along for a few seconds but stay on long enough for the fan to kick in and start purring like a kitten. Once started it runs great. And it will start great again after it has been started, even after it has been turned off for up to an hour. Oil pressure is good. It is about time for a oil and fuel filter change. You think I should just do that now, or anyone have any other ideas? Rick Davis '93 WLSA in Houston

[Chuck Wheeler]

Inour Kohler there is a TDR (Time delay relay) in the control box that gives the oil pressure time to come up but all generators I have been around have similar control. An easy check would be to ground the oil pressure switch that controls the shutdown. If it starts and runs you have a problem in the shutdown circuit. I am still willing to bet on fuel problems. You are getting air in the fuel system somewhere and after it is cranks enough you are finally getting the fuel system primed. If your generator has a priming pump operate it until you can feel back pressure and see if it starts immediately.

- Chuck Wheeler-

1982 FC 31SB Fort Worth TX

---

From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Davis
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 10:23 AM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Generator hard start

Thanks for your thoughts Gary,

If it was a relay, wouldn't that mean that it would probably be more inconsistent than it is? It has consistently started after the four to sixth turnover attempt.

Regarding oil pressure; I have oil pressure after it starts of course, but howwould I know if I have any during the start attempts?Shouldthe guage show pressureeven during the attempted startperiod? I've been starting it from outside, but maybe next time I will start it from inside and watch the guage.

Thanks again.

Rick Davis

'93 WLSA

in Houston

---

From: GARY MINKER com>
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 6:25:20 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Generator hard start

Sounds like oil pressure or indication to me. I have seen this one before. There are also some relays in the box that hang up plus if the alternator makes no 120/240 it will drop itself as it is all stupidly fail safed through each relay. It can be touchy to troubleshoot but I would go there. You can dummy out the oil sender. You have to know if it is a go high or goes low. --- On Sat, 7/25/09, Rick Davis wrote: From: Rick Davis Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Generator hard start To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, July 25, 2009, 11:04 AM Gary, I guess I shouldn't use the phrase "quits quickly", since it never really starts. Itjust sounds like it is trying so hard to start, but just won't stay going that extra second or two. I feel that holding down the starter button longer would help, but I am punchy to hold it down more than a second or two. I played with it again yesterday, andit will start on about the 6th try; two trys at a time before waiting a couple of minutes. I am hitting the glow plug each time I get back to it. It has the big modified air filter on it, and I have ordered a new one from Birtles. Maybe that will help. Rick Davis '93 WLSA in hot Houston for now From: GARY MINKER To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 6:42:11 AM Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Generator hard start What is (quits quickly?) If your oil pressure is low, it will drop the engine like a stone. Do you hold the starter in for a few extra seconds and it will start? Is this an oil pressure shut down due to fresh start up? If so, it is not broken. Your engine is clearanced and needs some revs to get the pressure up. --- On Sun, 7/19/09, davisgr wrote: From: davisgr Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Generator hard start To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 9:14 PM I'm still having genny start problems when starting it after it has sat for days. I have some hot weather driving coming up with guests on board, and am getting punchy about the possibility of it getting worse. especially after it always kicking right off. It seems to turn over fast enough, and it "starts" quick enough but quits quickly. My sequence is this: 1)Hit glow plug for 20 seconds. Hit start button with no start. Hit start button and start but quit after a second or two. 2)Wait a oouple or three minutes and repeat, with it maybe running a second or two longer this time. 3)Finally on the third or fourth series it will finally lump lump along for a few seconds but stay on long enough for the fan to kick in and start purring like a kitten. Once started it runs great. And it will start great again after it has been started, even after it has been turned off for up to an hour. Oil pressure is good. It is about time for a oil and fuel filter change. You think I should just do that now, or anyone have any other ideas? Rick Davis '93 WLSA in Houston