Help...Us buy our first motoerhome......

[david brady]

Wave,



I'm sure you have good intentions so I'll followup. The factory used

2 different bars on the LXi. A 1.75" diameter bar and a 2.125" diameter

bar. My bus came equipped with the 2.125". I don't know why they

used two bars; since there's no factory at this point one could only

speculate.  I haven't had an opportunity to try the softer 1.75" bar.

It may be just right. All I know for certain is that the 2.125" bar is
too

stiff. Over the years I've noticed that we Wanderlodge owners aren't

afraid to tune our buses to our personal tastes. Many of us are
engineers,

or have years of trucking experience, or race car experience, or hands

on mechanical experience and knowledge. One thing I've learned over

the years is to never prejudge a Wanderlodge owner; we are a
credentialed

lot.



David Brady

'02 LXi, NC





On 1/17/2010 10:42 PM, wavel wrote:

 

Can imagine someone new to the product feeling like they have to
second guess the engineers at BB by removing the anti sway bar for an
acceptable ride on the LXi?  Should these issues not be worked out at
the factory?

 

 

 

Wave

-----Original
Message-----

From: David Brady

Sent: Jan 17, 2010 8:58 PM

To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Help...Us buy our first motoerhome......




 

Hi Brad,



Thanks for your clarification. You may be on to something. There's
simply

no way to build something as big as an LXi and not have any flex in the


chassis, and indeed there is strength in flexibility. The LXi is a
departure

from the usual Wanderlodge build methods. It still uses the main
c-channel

backbone, but in addition, it adds supporting framework that envelops
the

backbone. The FC's, PT's and even the Wide Bodies, are all essentially

box over frame construction. The box adds considerable stiffness to what

would otherwise be a rather whippy c-channel backbone. There was no way

that this style of construction could stand a hole cut in the side for
a slide.

The engineers needed to rethink the structure. In the LXi you'll find
the c-channnel

backbone, and connected to it a stout set of triangulated boxes that
make up the

basement. Along the perimeter of the skin there are 5 sets of stout
longitudinal

structures, (1) a pair of longitudinal frame rails that run underneath
the basement

from steer axle to drive axle, (2) extruded aluminum torque tubes at
the top

corners of the roof, (3) the belt bar that runs the full length of the
coach at

the base of the windows, (4) the hip beam that runs the full length of
the coach

at floor level, and (5) a beam that runs at the basement floor outer
corner from

the steer to the drive axle. All of these have vertical supports posts
tying the beams

together at the outer skin. The inside walls are also steel gusseted
from floor

level to the belt bar under the windows. The joints are welded or huck
bolted

together. The folks at the factory, whom I've spoken with, have nothing
but praise

for the rigidity of the slide equipped LXi. It is a rather amazing
piece representing

40 years of evolution along with new design elements meant to support
slide

technology. In my view it's more of a perimeter design than the older
box on

frame style, meaning that the space frame envelops the c-channel and
the two

work in harmony. My hats off to the folks who did it. Now does it ride
rough?

In stock form it does. As everyone here knows by now, I removed my OEM

steer axle anti-sway bar and am overwhelmed by the improvement in ride
and

handling. The stock bar is simply too stiff. This stiffness results in
almost no

independent steer axle wheel movement and excessive vertical suspension


movement. This may be the cause of some of the issues owners have
expressed

with their buses. There may be other causes: tire pressures, ride
height, shocks,

maybe a chassis that's too stiff. I don't know. My own experience is
that with

the anti-sway bar removed you'll be hard pressed to find a better
handing or riding

bus, and I've driven many Prevost's over the years. On the other hand,
I am a

slightly biased LXi owner so feel free to take all of this with a grain
of salt!. LOL.



Good luck in your search.



David Brady

'02 LXi, NC

-----Original
Message-----

From: brad barton <bbartonwx>

Sent: Jan 17, 2010 8:10 PM

To: wanderlodgeforum@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Help...Us buy our first motoerhome......




 

Wave,

I am only a civilian, not a mechanic, so these are just my
impressions.  There are many others who would disagree.  Compared to my
35'FC and the 43' LXi, the Newell had much less vertical movement in
travel.  It's just the way different manufacturers set up the
suspension and handle the weight on their coaches. 

My opinion is that the 43' length of the coach, exaggerated by the wide
travel of the suspension produced either flexes or possibly shocks that
resulted in several failures plus chatters, chirps and rattles,
all located near the middle of the coach which I outlined earlier. 
Maybe they were all unrelated.  Maybe I just had some bad luck- I can't
say for sure. 

Don't get me wrong, my LXi was, and still is the most elegant coach
I've ever seen.  I'm glad I had the experience of owning it.  If I was
forced to make a choice right now though, I'd take a close look at a
non-slide LXi, a PT40 or an LX if they were impeccably maintained or
re-done. 

Best of luck,

Brad 

   

 





"bbartonwx@hotmail.com"





 

---

To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com

From: w5sk@earthlink.net

Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 15:57:36 +0000

Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Help...Us buy our first motoerhome......



 

Brad,



I am new to this forum. Have owned several glass coaches but looking to
move up to a bus. Currently in a 40' Vogue V 96 which is really a very
nice fiberglass Prevost look alike.



You said that the 43 foot Wonderlodge had some issues with the ride. Do
you think that was the length or the chassis. Could you tell me more?



Thanks,



Wave

Near Medicine Park, Ok.

96 Vogue V

still working



--- In "WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com",
brad barton <bbartonwx@.<wbr>..> wrote:

>

>

> Clyde,

>

> I've owned an 84 FC Blue Bird Wanderlodge, an 86 Newell and a 2000
Wanderlodge LXi. For what it's worth, my 84 FC was the most
trouble-free coach I had, but underpowered (for my taste).

>

> The 86 Newell was the best handling coach I had, a pleasure to
drive, but a few of the parts were getting hard to find in 2004. My LXi
was more problematic than I thought it should've been. I think the 43'
length, excessive vertical movement and body flex were related to
several problems. I'd rather stay at 38-40'.

>

>

>

> Since you're in St. Louis, you'd be fairly close to the Newell
factory in Miami, OK. And they are a pleasure to deal with on
maintenance and service issues (as I'm sure Blue Bird was when their
factory was still in business). A later-model Newell (Series 2000 or
newer) in pristine condition would be a good choice, just keep it
serviced at the factory.

>

>

>

> A late 80's to mid 90's Wanderlodge PT40 or SP36 would be fine if
it's been renovated and free of rust.

>

>

>

> If I were in the market for a bus-style coach, I'd find out who
services Prevost and Marathon coaches in my area and get their opinion
on parts and maintenance.

>

> And, if you buy a metal coach, you'll probably never want to buy a
fiberglass coach again, no matter what the price.

>

>

> No coach, new, used, metal or plastic will be a snap to own and
run. You have to be prepared financially and emotionally for wear,
tear, breakage, replacement parts and plenty of maintenance. One other
thing that's real important is..no leaks. No air leaks at the door, no
water leaks anywhere, roof, windows, tanks or valves. They have a way
of causing more damage to more things than you can imagine. If it
leaks, and they won't guarantee the fix, keep looking. Best of luck.

>

>

> bbartonwx@...

>

>

>

>

>

> To: "WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com"

> From: cmlintx@...

> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 07:07:50 -0800

> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Help...Us buy our first motoerhome......

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> My wife and I would like to buy a diesel pusher this spring. In
your opinion, would it be better to buy an older Blue Bird, Prevost, or
Newell or....... a newer Newmar, Holiday Rambler, Fleetwood, or Tiffin?
Our funds are limited so a new ones are out of the question.

>

> Your opinion is welcome and needed!!

>

> Thank You,

> Clyde Byram

> St. Louis, MO

> Want-A-Be Motorhomer

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________________

> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.

> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/

>

---

Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. Get
it now.

[Pete Masterson]

David,

This description (finally) explains the ride criticisms I've heard about the LXi models... I did not realize that the body/frame combination was so very different from the earlier 'birds. Indeed, (considering its size), my 42' 'bird handled and rode fairly well, especially after I had an alignment done by Henderson's Line-up (Grants Pass OR) where a damaged, bent and jammed Blue Ox True Center steering device was removed and replaced with the much more heavily constructed Safe T Plus steering control (built by Hendersons). During the alignment, we also identified and replaced a worn drag link tie-rod end that had contributed to "wander".

My coach did have its share of rattles -- but I ultimately narrowed that down to the windows -- they all needed to have the sealing/weatherstripping renewed to better hold the sliding part of the glass in its channel. (A task I never "got to"...)

Pete Masterson

(former) '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

On Jan 17, 2010, at 6:58 PM, David Brady wrote:

Hi Brad,

Thanks for your clarification. You may be on to something. There's simply
no way to build something as big as an LXi and not have any flex in the
chassis, and indeed there is strength in flexibility. The LXi is a departure
from the usual Wanderlodge build methods. It still uses the main c-channel
backbone, but in addition, it adds supporting framework that envelops the
backbone. The FC's, PT's and even the Wide Bodies, are all essentially
box over frame construction. The box adds considerable stiffness to what
would otherwise be a rather whippy c-channel backbone. There was no way
that this style of construction could stand a hole cut in the side for a slide.
The engineers needed to rethink the structure. In the LXi you'll find the c-channnel
backbone, and connected to it a stout set of triangulated boxes that make up the
basement. Along the perimeter of the skin there are 5 sets of stout longitudinal
structures, (1) a pair of longitudinal frame rails that run underneath the basement
from steer axle to drive axle, (2) extruded aluminum torque tubes at the top
corners of the roof, (3) the belt bar that runs the full length of the coach at
the base of the windows, (4) the hip beam that runs the full length of the coach
at floor level, and (5) a beam that runs at the basement floor outer corner from
the steer to the drive axle. All of these have vertical supports posts tying the beams
together at the outer skin. The inside walls are also steel gusseted from floor
level to the belt bar under the windows. The joints are welded or huck bolted
together. The folks at the factory, whom I've spoken with, have nothing but praise
for the rigidity of the slide equipped LXi. It is a rather amazing piece representing
40 years of evolution along with new design elements meant to support slide
technology. In my view it's more of a perimeter design than the older box on
frame style, meaning that the space frame envelops the c-channel and the two
work in harmony. My hats off to the folks who did it. Now does it ride rough?
In stock form it does. As everyone here knows by now, I removed my OEM
steer axle anti-sway bar and am overwhelmed by the improvement in ride and
handling. The stock bar is simply too stiff. This stiffness results in almost no
independent steer axle wheel movement and excessive vertical suspension
movement. This may be the cause of some of the issues owners have expressed
with their buses. There may be other causes: tire pressures, ride height, shocks,
maybe a chassis that's too stiff. I don't know. My own experience is that with
the anti-sway bar removed you'll be hard pressed to find a better handing or riding
bus, and I've driven many Prevost's over the years. On the other hand, I am a
slightly biased LXi owner so feel free to take all of this with a grain of salt!. LOL.

Good luck in your search.

David Brady
'02 LXi, NC

-----Original Message-----
From: brad barton<bbartonwx>
Sent: Jan 17, 2010 8:10 PM
To:"wanderlodgeforum@yahoogroups.com"
Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Help...Us buy our first motoerhome......

Wave,
I am only a civilian, not a mechanic, so these are just my impressions. There are many others who would disagree. Compared to my 35'FC and the 43' LXi, the Newell had much less vertical movement in travel. It's just the way different manufacturers set up the suspension and handle the weight on their coaches.
My opinion is that the 43' length of the coach, exaggerated by the wide travel of the suspension produced either flexes or possibly shocks that resulted in several failures plus chatters, chirps and rattles, alllocated near the middle of the coach which I outlined earlier. Maybe they were all unrelated. Maybe I just had some bad luck- Ican't sayfor sure.
Don't get me wrong, my LXi was, and still is the most elegant coach I've ever seen.I'm glad I had the experience of owning it. If I was forced to make a choice right now though, I'd take a close look at a non-slide LXi, a PT40 or an LX if they were impeccably maintained or re-done.
Best of luck,
Brad




"bbartonwx@hotmail.com"

---

To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
From: w5sk@earthlink.net
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 15:57:36 +0000
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Help...Us buy our first motoerhome......

Brad,

I am new to this forum. Have owned several glass coaches but looking to move up to a bus. Currently in a 40' Vogue V 96 which is really a very nice fiberglass Prevost look alike.

You said that the 43 foot Wonderlodge had some issues with the ride. Do you think that was the length or the chassis. Could you tell me more?

Thanks,

Wave
Near Medicine Park, Ok.
96 Vogue V
still working

--- In"WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com", brad barton <bbartonwx@.<wbr>..> wrote:
>
>
> Clyde,
>
> I've owned an 84 FC Blue Bird Wanderlodge, an 86 Newell and a 2000 Wanderlodge LXi. For what it's worth, my 84 FC was the most trouble-free coach I had, but underpowered (for my taste).
>
> The 86 Newell was the best handling coach I had, a pleasure to drive, but a few of the parts were getting hard to find in 2004. My LXi was more problematic than I thought it should've been. I think the 43' length, excessive vertical movement and body flex were related to several problems. I'd rather stay at 38-40'.
>
>
>
> Since you're in St. Louis, you'd be fairly close to the Newell factory in Miami, OK. And they are a pleasure to deal with on maintenance and service issues (as I'm sure Blue Bird was when their factory was still in business). A later-model Newell (Series 2000 or newer) in pristine condition would be a good choice, just keep it serviced at the factory.
>
>
>
> A late 80's to mid 90's Wanderlodge PT40 or SP36 would be fine if it's been renovated and free of rust.
>
>
>
> If I were in the market for a bus-style coach, I'd find out who services Prevost and Marathon coaches in my area and get their opinion on parts and maintenance.
>
> And, if you buy a metal coach, you'll probably never want to buy a fiberglass coach again, no matter what the price.
>
>
> No coach, new, used, metal or plastic will be a snap to own and run. You have to be prepared financially and emotionally for wear, tear, breakage, replacement parts and plenty of maintenance. One other thing that's real important is..no leaks. No air leaks at the door, no water leaks anywhere, roof, windows, tanks or valves. They have a way of causing more damage to more things than you can imagine. If it leaks, and they won't guarantee the fix, keep looking. Best of luck.
>
>
> bbartonwx@...
>
>
>
>
>
> To:"WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com"
> From: cmlintx@...
> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 07:07:50 -0800
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Help...Us buy our first motoerhome......
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> My wife and I would like to buy a diesel pusher this spring. In your opinion, would it be better to buy an older Blue Bird, Prevost, or Newell or....... a newer Newmar, Holiday Rambler, Fleetwood, or Tiffin? Our funds are limited so a new ones are out of the question.
>
> Your opinion is welcome and needed!!
>
> Thank You,
> Clyde Byram
> St. Louis, MO
> Want-A-Be Motorhomer
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
>http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/
>

---

Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.Get it now.

[David Brady]

Pete,

As Stephen pointed out, it's really a matter of personal preference.
Some may like the stock ride, other's may find it stiff. IMHO, the
stiffness is solely related to the use of a front anti-sway bar (ASB) of
aggressive proportions. Recall that no Wanderlodge, before the LXi,
came equipped with a ASB; the LXi was the first. Also keep in mind
that the suspension system on the LXi is essentially the same Ridewell
suspension system used on previous coaches. Also recall that my
decision to remove my ASB was guided by conversations with Ridewell
engineers whom stated to me that the use of an ASB was purely
BlueBird's call and that the suspension functions as designed without
the bar. Perhaps the ASB was first used in the LXi cause the designers
thought the chassis torsionally stiff enough to handle one. Who knows.
All I can relay is my personal experience with my bus, and perhaps
anecdotal experience I've gleaned from LXi owners who previously owned
FC, PT's, and Wide Bodies. My personal experience is that without the
ASB the bus is as Prevost like as your likely to find, smooth, rattle free,
and stable. With the ASB, there's considerably more road shock
transmitted thru the front suspension. The anecdotal evidence I've gleaned
from owners who worked their way up the food chain, is that the LXi is by
far the best riding, handling, and rattle free bus Wanderlodge ever built.
Prospective buyers need to find a way to take a test drive and to make
their own opinion. If anyone in the Western North Carolina area would
like to go for a ride in mine, you're more than welcome.

David Brady
'02 LXi, NC

-----Original Message-----

From: Pete Masterson

Sent: Jan 18, 2010 1:31 PM

To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Help...Us buy our first motoerhome......

David,

This description (finally) explains the ride criticisms I've heard about the LXi models... I did not realize that the body/frame combination was so very different from the earlier 'birds. Indeed, (considering its size), my 42' 'bird handled and rode fairly well, especially after I had an alignment done by Henderson's Line-up (Grants Pass OR) where a damaged, bent and jammed Blue Ox True Center steering device was removed and replaced with the much more heavily constructed Safe T Plus steering control (built by Hendersons). During the alignment, we also identified and replaced a worn drag link tie-rod end that had contributed to "wander".

My coach did have its share of rattles -- but I ultimately narrowed that down to the windows -- they all needed to have the sealing/weatherstripping renewed to better hold the sliding part of the glass in its channel. (A task I never "got to"...)

Pete Masterson

(former) '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

On Jan 17, 2010, at 6:58 PM, David Brady wrote:

Hi Brad,

Thanks for your clarification. You may be on to something. There's simply
no way to build something as big as an LXi and not have any flex in the
chassis, and indeed there is strength in flexibility. The LXi is a departure
from the usual Wanderlodge build methods. It still uses the main c-channel
backbone, but in addition, it adds supporting framework that envelops the
backbone. The FC's, PT's and even the Wide Bodies, are all essentially
box over frame construction. The box adds considerable stiffness to what
would otherwise be a rather whippy c-channel backbone. There was no way
that this style of construction could stand a hole cut in the side for a slide.
The engineers needed to rethink the structure. In the LXi you'll find the c-channnel
backbone, and connected to it a stout set of triangulated boxes that make up the
basement. Along the perimeter of the skin there are 5 sets of stout longitudinal
structures, (1) a pair of longitudinal frame rails that run underneath the basement
from steer axle to drive axle, (2) extruded aluminum torque tubes at the top
corners of the roof, (3) the belt bar that runs the full length of the coach at
the base of the windows, (4) the hip beam that runs the full length of the coach
at floor level, and (5) a beam that runs at the basement floor outer corner from
the steer to the drive axle. All of these have vertical supports posts tying the beams
together at the outer skin. The inside walls are also steel gusseted from floor
level to the belt bar under the windows. The joints are welded or huck bolted
together. The folks at the factory, whom I've spoken with, have nothing but praise
for the rigidity of the slide equipped LXi. It is a rather amazing piece representing
40 years of evolution along with new design elements meant to support slide
technology. In my view it's more of a perimeter design than the older box on
frame style, meaning that the space frame envelops the c-channel and the two
work in harmony. My hats off to the folks who did it. Now does it ride rough?
In stock form it does. As everyone here knows by now, I removed my OEM
steer axle anti-sway bar and am overwhelmed by the improvement in ride and
handling. The stock bar is simply too stiff. This stiffness results in almost no
independent steer axle wheel movement and excessive vertical suspension
movement. This may be the cause of some of the issues owners have expressed
with their buses. There may be other causes: tire pressures, ride height, shocks,
maybe a chassis that's too stiff. I don't know. My own experience is that with
the anti-sway bar removed you'll be hard pressed to find a better handing or riding
bus, and I've driven many Prevost's over the years. On the other hand, I am a
slightly biased LXi owner so feel free to take all of this with a grain of salt!. LOL.

Good luck in your search.

David Brady
'02 LXi, NC

-----Original Message-----
From: brad barton<bbartonwx>
Sent: Jan 17, 2010 8:10 PM
To:"wanderlodgeforum@yahoogroups.com"
Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Help...Us buy our first motoerhome......

Wave,
I am only a civilian, not a mechanic, so these are just my impressions. There are many others who would disagree. Compared to my 35'FC and the 43' LXi, the Newell had much less vertical movement in travel. It's just the way different manufacturers set up the suspension and handle the weight on their coaches.
My opinion is that the 43' length of the coach, exaggerated by the wide travel of the suspension produced either flexes or possibly shocks that resulted in several failures plus chatters, chirps and rattles, alllocated near the middle of the coach which I outlined earlier. Maybe they were all unrelated. Maybe I just had some bad luck- Ican't sayfor sure.
Don't get me wrong, my LXi was, and still is the most elegant coach I've ever seen.I'm glad I had the experience of owning it. If I was forced to make a choice right now though, I'd take a close look at a non-slide LXi, a PT40 or an LX if they were impeccably maintained or re-done.
Best of luck,
Brad




"bbartonwx@hotmail.com"

---

To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
From: w5sk@earthlink.net
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 15:57:36 +0000
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Help...Us buy our first motoerhome......

Brad,

I am new to this forum. Have owned several glass coaches but looking to move up to a bus. Currently in a 40' Vogue V 96 which is really a very nice fiberglass Prevost look alike.

You said that the 43 foot Wonderlodge had some issues with the ride. Do you think that was the length or the chassis. Could you tell me more?

Thanks,

Wave
Near Medicine Park, Ok.
96 Vogue V
still working

--- In"WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com", brad barton <bbartonwx@.<wbr>..> wrote:
>
>
> Clyde,
>
> I've owned an 84 FC Blue Bird Wanderlodge, an 86 Newell and a 2000 Wanderlodge LXi. For what it's worth, my 84 FC was the most trouble-free coach I had, but underpowered (for my taste).
>
> The 86 Newell was the best handling coach I had, a pleasure to drive, but a few of the parts were getting hard to find in 2004. My LXi was more problematic than I thought it should've been. I think the 43' length, excessive vertical movement and body flex were related to several problems. I'd rather stay at 38-40'.
>
>
>
> Since you're in St. Louis, you'd be fairly close to the Newell factory in Miami, OK. And they are a pleasure to deal with on maintenance and service issues (as I'm sure Blue Bird was when their factory was still in business). A later-model Newell (Series 2000 or newer) in pristine condition would be a good choice, just keep it serviced at the factory.
>
>
>
> A late 80's to mid 90's Wanderlodge PT40 or SP36 would be fine if it's been renovated and free of rust.
>
>
>
> If I were in the market for a bus-style coach, I'd find out who services Prevost and Marathon coaches in my area and get their opinion on parts and maintenance.
>
> And, if you buy a metal coach, you'll probably never want to buy a fiberglass coach again, no matter what the price.
>
>
> No coach, new, used, metal or plastic will be a snap to own and run. You have to be prepared financially and emotionally for wear, tear, breakage, replacement parts and plenty of maintenance. One other thing that's real important is..no leaks. No air leaks at the door, no water leaks anywhere, roof, windows, tanks or valves. They have a way of causing more damage to more things than you can imagine. If it leaks, and they won't guarantee the fix, keep looking. Best of luck.
>
>
> bbartonwx@...
>
>
>
>
>
> To:"WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com"
> From: cmlintx@...
> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 07:07:50 -0800
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Help...Us buy our first motoerhome......
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> My wife and I would like to buy a diesel pusher this spring. In your opinion, would it be better to buy an older Blue Bird, Prevost, or Newell or....... a newer Newmar, Holiday Rambler, Fleetwood, or Tiffin? Our funds are limited so a new ones are out of the question.
>
> Your opinion is welcome and needed!!
>
> Thank You,
> Clyde Byram
> St. Louis, MO
> Want-A-Be Motorhomer
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
>http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/
>

---

Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service.Get it now.

[Mark]

BB you wrote,

No coach, new, used, metal or plastic will be a snap to
own

> and run. You have to be prepared financially and emotionally

> for wear, tear, breakage, replacement parts and plenty of

> maintenance. One other thing that's real important is..no

> leaks. No air leaks at the door, no water leaks anywhere,

> roof, windows, tanks or valves. They have a way of causing

> more damage to more things than you can imagine. If it leaks,

> and they won't guarantee the fix, keep looking. Best of luck.

Just curious what you think you think it’s
reasonable to need to spend on maintainance.

What problems seem to happen the most?

My wife and I will soon retire and are considering an
older DP to fulltime in. I don’t mind and am very capable of

Working on a coach. Stuff that is expensive though might
be a problem.

Mark

Northglenn,Co.

[wavel]

David,

Thanks you for the insight.You are right - I do not have an agenda except to move up to a bus - which means I am looking at Prevost and Bluebird. I am sure that topic has come before the group many times.It appears that BB is the better bargin- but I am not sure about the rest of the equation. I really appreciate the group and what they mean to a prospective owner.

Wave

SW Oklahoma

-----Original Message-----
From: david brady
Sent: Jan 17, 2010 10:58 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Help...Us buy our first motoerhome......

Wave,

I'm sure you have good intentions so I'll followup. The factory used
2 different bars on the LXi. A 1.75" diameter bar and a 2.125" diameter
bar. My bus came equipped with the 2.125". I don't know why they
used two bars; since there's no factory at this point one could only
speculate. I haven't had an opportunity to try the softer 1.75" bar.
It may be just right. All I know for certain is that the 2.125" bar is too
stiff. Over the years I've noticed that we Wanderlodge owners aren't
afraid to tune our buses to our personal tastes. Many of us are engineers,
or have years of trucking experience, or race car experience, or hands
on mechanical experience and knowledge. One thing I've learned over
the years is to never prejudge a Wanderlodge owner; we are a credentialed
lot.

David Brady
'02 LXi, NC


On 1/17/2010 10:42 PM, wavel wrote:

Can imagine someone new to the product feeling like they have to second guess the engineers at BB by removing the anti sway bar for an acceptable ride on the LXi? Should these issues not be worked out at the factory?

Wave

-----Original Message-----
From: David Brady
Sent: Jan 17, 2010 8:58 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Help...Us buy our first motoerhome......

Hi Brad,

Thanks for your clarification. You may be on to something. There's simply
no way to build something as big as an LXi and not have any flex in the
chassis, and indeed there is strength in flexibility. The LXi is a departure
from the usual Wanderlodge build methods. It still uses the main c-channel
backbone, but in addition, it adds supporting framework that envelops the
backbone. The FC's, PT's and even the Wide Bodies, are all essentially
box over frame construction. The box adds considerable stiffness to what
would otherwise be a rather whippy c-channel backbone. There was no way
that this style of construction could stand a hole cut in the side for a slide.
The engineers needed to rethink the structure. In the LXi you'll find the c-channnel
backbone, and connected to it a stout set of triangulated boxes that make up the
basement. Along the perimeter of the skin there are 5 sets of stout longitudinal
structures, (1) a pair of longitudinal frame rails that run underneath the basement
from steer axle to drive axle, (2) extruded aluminum torque tubes at the top
corners of the roof, (3) the belt bar that runs the full length of the coach at
the base of the windows, (4) the hip beam that runs the full length of the coach
at floor level, and (5) a beam that runs at the basement floor outer corner from
the steer to the drive axle. All of these have vertical supports posts tying the beams
together at the outer skin. The inside walls are also steel gusseted from floor
level to the belt bar under the windows. The joints are welded or huck bolted
together. The folks at the factory, whom I've spoken with, have nothing but praise
for the rigidity of the slide equipped LXi. It is a rather amazing piece representing
40 years of evolution along with new design elements meant to support slide
technology. In my view it's more of a perimeter design than the older box on
frame style, meaning that the space frame envelops the c-channel and the two
work in harmony. My hats off to the folks who did it. Now does it ride rough?
In stock form it does. As everyone here knows by now, I removed my OEM
steer axle anti-sway bar and am overwhelmed by the improvement in ride and
handling. The stock bar is simply too stiff. This stiffness results in almost no
independent steer axle wheel movement and excessive vertical suspension
movement. This may be the cause of some of the issues owners have expressed
with their buses. There may be other causes: tire pressures, ride height, shocks,
maybe a chassis that's too stiff. I don't know. My own experience is that with
the anti-sway bar removed you'll be hard pressed to find a better handing or riding
bus, and I've driven many Prevost's over the years. On the other hand, I am a
slightly biased LXi owner so feel free to take all of this with a grain of salt!. LOL.

Good luck in your search.

David Brady
'02 LXi, NC

-----Original Message-----
From: brad barton <BBARTONWX>
Sent: Jan 17, 2010 8:10 PM
To: wanderlodgeforum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Help...Us buy our first motoerhome......

Wave,
I am only a civilian, not a mechanic, so these are just my impressions. There are many others who would disagree. Compared to my 35'FC and the 43' LXi, the Newell had much less vertical movement in travel. It's just the way different manufacturers set up the suspension and handle the weight on their coaches.
My opinion is that the 43' length of the coach, exaggerated by the wide travel of the suspension produced either flexes or possibly shocks that resulted in several failures plus chatters, chirps and rattles, alllocated near the middle of the coach which I outlined earlier. Maybe they were all unrelated. Maybe I just had some bad luck- Ican't sayfor sure.
Don't get me wrong, my LXi was, and still is the most elegant coach I've ever seen.I'm glad I had the experience of owning it. If I was forced to make a choice right now though, I'd take a close look at a non-slide LXi, a PT40 or an LX if they were impeccably maintained or re-done.
Best of luck,
Brad




"bbartonwx@hotmail.com"

---

To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
From: w5sk@earthlink.net
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 15:57:36 +0000
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Help...Us buy our first motoerhome......

Brad,

I am new to this forum. Have owned several glass coaches but looking to move up to a bus. Currently in a 40' Vogue V 96 which is really a very nice fiberglass Prevost look alike.

You said that the 43 foot Wonderlodge had some issues with the ride. Do you think that was the length or the chassis. Could you tell me more?

Thanks,

Wave
Near Medicine Park, Ok.
96 Vogue V
still working

--- In "WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com", brad barton <bbartonwx@.<WBR>..> wrote:
>
>
> Clyde,
>
> I've owned an 84 FC Blue Bird Wanderlodge, an 86 Newell and a 2000 Wanderlodge LXi. For what it's worth, my 84 FC was the most trouble-free coach I had, but underpowered (for my taste).
>
> The 86 Newell was the best handling coach I had, a pleasure to drive, but a few of the parts were getting hard to find in 2004. My LXi was more problematic than I thought it should've been. I think the 43' length, excessive vertical movement and body flex were related to several problems. I'd rather stay at 38-40'.
>
>
>
> Since you're in St. Louis, you'd be fairly close to the Newell factory in Miami, OK. And they are a pleasure to deal with on maintenance and service issues (as I'm sure Blue Bird was when their factory was still in business). A later-model Newell (Series 2000 or newer) in pristine condition would be a good choice, just keep it serviced at the factory.
>
>
>
> A late 80's to mid 90's Wanderlodge PT40 or SP36 would be fine if it's been renovated and free of rust.
>
>
>
> If I were in the market for a bus-style coach, I'd find out who services Prevost and Marathon coaches in my area and get their opinion on parts and maintenance.
>
> And, if you buy a metal coach, you'll probably never want to buy a fiberglass coach again, no matter what the price.
>
>
> No coach, new, used, metal or plastic will be a snap to own and run. You have to be prepared financially and emotionally for wear, tear, breakage, replacement parts and plenty of maintenance. One other thing that's real important is..no leaks. No air leaks at the door, no water leaks anywhere, roof, windows, tanks or valves. They have a way of causing more damage to more things than you can imagine. If it leaks, and they won't guarantee the fix, keep looking. Best of luck.
>
>
> bbartonwx@...
>
>
>
>
>
> To: "WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com"
> From: cmlintx@...
> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 07:07:50 -0800
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Help...Us buy our first motoerhome......
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> My wife and I would like to buy a diesel pusher this spring. In your opinion, would it be better to buy an older Blue Bird, Prevost, or Newell or....... a newer Newmar, Holiday Rambler, Fleetwood, or Tiffin? Our funds are limited so a new ones are out of the question.
>
> Your opinion is welcome and needed!!
>
> Thank You,
> Clyde Byram
> St. Louis, MO
> Want-A-Be Motorhomer
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/
>

---

Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. Get it now.

[wavel]

Mark,

I think your greatest expense will be depreciation (which will be less on an older coach) but upkeep will be more.

I am in the same process as you but I do own a coach now. Prepurchase inspection becomes important - engine, transmission, chassis, bakes, generator set,diesel fired heating, AC's, air bags, tires - maybe in that order. All the house stuff is fairly cheap by comparison. Im sure others have kept a log of expense - but if I were to average mine over 10 years it would be about 5K/year - but that is only with rare useage.

Wave

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark
Sent: Jan 18, 2010 3:36 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Help...Us buy our first motoerhome......

BB you wrote,

No coach, new, used, metal or plastic will be a snap to own
> and run. You have to be prepared financially and emotionally
> for wear, tear, breakage, replacement parts and plenty of
> maintenance. One other thing that's real important is..no
> leaks. No air leaks at the door, no water leaks anywhere,
> roof, windows, tanks or valves. They have a way of causing
> more damage to more things than you can imagine. If it leaks,
> and they won't guarantee the fix, keep looking. Best of luck.

Just curious what you think you think it’s reasonable to need to spend on maintainance.

What problems seem to happen the most?

My wife and I will soon retire and are considering an older DP to fulltime in. I don’t mind and am very capable of

Working on a coach. Stuff that is expensive though might be a problem.

Mark

Northglenn,Co.

[brad barton]

Mark,

Again, just a non-mechanic civilian, but from memory, I'll tell you what my most repetitive problems were.

#1 Microphor air toilet. If it wasn't one of the air or water valves, it was the pump. If it wasn't the pump, it was the breaker. By far, the toilet gave me more trouble than any other single part.

Potential fix is replacing the 12v pump w/ 120v compressor that runs on inverter or installing asimpler camping toilet IF it was on topof the holding tank.

#2Refrigerator. Worked fine the first few months, thenit quit working while in motion.Refrigerant showed no leaks, power was okay, circuit board okay, doors were okay, venting okay (after several attempts at all areas to diagnose and fix). We completely removed and re-sealed the existing cooling unit and it still didn't work when in motion. Temecula Valley RV installed a new cooling unit for the new owners.

#3 On my Newell, we had water leaks around the window, windshield (new)and skylights. Eventually sealed both automotive skylights with silicon, disabling them and had the factory reseal the windows. Still not water tight but better when sold.

#4 Plumbing leaks (both coaches). In my book, plumbing and water leaks must be dealt with as a near-emergency because they can blow your electricity disabling the entire coach or cause rotting and rust that is undetectable until much damage has been done. Inspecting for water leaks or evidence of water leaks from the roof-joints to the basement floor is very important. One electrical problem caused by water leaks can lead to many more.

One fix is never to winterize your coach, just pay to keep it plugged in or running diesel or gas heat in the winter. There is no way to be absolutely sure that your coach water pipes havebeen winterized unless you run antifreeze through them.

#5 Entry door. Weight, alignment, gunk in the locking mechanism, weather-stripping and sun/heat exposure can cause leaks and warping.



I have no ideahow much a normal maintenance should run. If you're at peace and happy with the coach regardless of your repairs, then it's not too much. If it's making you unhappy, it's too much. Coaches are supposed to make us happy.



This forum is a good place to learn how to avoid problems or work around them.

Best of luck,

Brad

"bbartonwx@hotmail.com"

---

To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
From: summitwolf@...
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 13:36:46 -0700
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Help...Us buy our first motoerhome......

BB you wrote,

No coach, new, used, metal or plastic will be a snap to own
> and run. You have to be prepared financially and emotionally
> for wear, tear, breakage, replacement parts and plenty of
> maintenance. One other thing that's real important is..no
> leaks. No air leaks at the door, no water leaks anywhere,
> roof, windows, tanks or valves. They have a way of causing
> more damage to more things than you can imagine. If it leaks,
> and they won't guarantee the fix, keep looking. Best of luck.

Just curious what you think you think it’s reasonable to need to spend on maintainance.

What problems seem to happen the most?

My wife and I will soon retire and are considering an older DP to fulltime in. I don’t mind and am very capable of

Working on a coach. Stuff that is expensive though might be a problem.

Mark

Northglenn,Co.

---

Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.

[Ross MacKillop]

HI,

What years or $ are you considering for a coach.

Prevost - best to consider 2004 shell (2005 conversion) or later. Has front axle upgrade

Blue Bird--LXi 2004 or earlier.

Ross

06 LXi

---

From: wavel
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, January 18, 2010 3:36:30
PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Help...Us buy our first motoerhome......

David,

Thanks you for the insight.You are right - I do not have an agenda except to move up to a bus - which means I am looking at Prevost and Bluebird. I am sure that topic has come before the group many times.It appears that BB is the better bargin- but I am not sure about the rest of the equation. I really appreciate the group and what they mean to a prospective owner.

Wave

SW Oklahoma

-----Original Message-----
From: david brady
Sent: Jan 17, 2010 10:58 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Help...Us buy our first motoerhome.. ....

Wave,

I'm sure you have good intentions so I'll followup. The factory used
2 different bars on the LXi. A 1.75" diameter bar and a 2.125" diameter
bar. My bus came equipped with the 2.125". I don't know why they
used two bars; since there's no factory at this point one could only
speculate. I haven't had an opportunity to try the softer 1.75" bar.
It may be just right. All I know for certain is that the 2.125" bar is too
stiff. Over the years I've noticed that we Wanderlodge owners aren't
afraid to tune our buses to our personal tastes. Many of us are engineers,
or have years of trucking experience, or race car experience, or hands
on mechanical experience and knowledge. One thing I've learned over
the years is to never prejudge a Wanderlodge owner; we are a credentialed
lot.

David Brady
'02 LXi, NC


On 1/17/2010 10:42 PM, wavel wrote:

Can imagine someone new to the product feeling like they have to second guess the engineers at BB by removing the anti sway bar for an acceptable ride on the LXi? Should these issues not be worked out at the factory?

Wave

-----Original Message-----
From: David Brady
Sent: Jan 17, 2010 8:58 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Help...Us buy our first motoerhome.. ....

Hi Brad,

Thanks for your clarification. You may be on to something. There's simply
no way to build something as big as an LXi and not have any flex in the
chassis, and indeed there is strength in flexibility. The LXi is a departure
from the usual Wanderlodge build methods. It still uses the main c-channel
backbone, but in addition, it adds supporting framework that envelops the
backbone. The FC's, PT's and even the Wide Bodies, are all essentially
box over frame construction. The box adds considerable stiffness to what
would otherwise be a rather whippy c-channel backbone. There was no way
that this style of construction could stand a hole cut in the side for a slide.
The engineers needed to rethink the structure. In the LXi you'll find the c-channnel
backbone, and connected to it a stout set of triangulated boxes that make up the
basement. Along the perimeter of the skin there are 5 sets of stout
longitudinal
structures, (1) a pair of longitudinal frame rails that run underneath the basement
from steer axle to drive axle, (2) extruded aluminum torque tubes at the top
corners of the roof, (3) the belt bar that runs the full length of the coach at
the base of the windows, (4) the hip beam that runs the full length of the coach
at floor level, and (5) a beam that runs at the basement floor outer corner from
the steer to the drive axle. All of these have vertical supports posts tying the beams
together at the outer skin. The inside walls are also steel gusseted from floor
level to the belt bar under the windows. The joints are welded or huck bolted
together. The folks at the factory, whom I've spoken with, have nothing but praise
for the rigidity of the slide equipped LXi. It is a rather amazing piece representing
40 years of evolution along with new design elements meant to support slide
technology. In my view
it's more of a perimeter design than the older box on
frame style, meaning that the space frame envelops the c-channel and the two
work in harmony. My hats off to the folks who did it. Now does it ride rough?
In stock form it does. As everyone here knows by now, I removed my OEM
steer axle anti-sway bar and am overwhelmed by the improvement in ride and
handling. The stock bar is simply too stiff. This stiffness results in almost no
independent steer axle wheel movement and excessive vertical suspension
movement. This may be the cause of some of the issues owners have expressed
with their buses. There may be other causes: tire pressures, ride height, shocks,
maybe a chassis that's too stiff. I don't know. My own experience is that with
the anti-sway bar removed you'll be hard pressed to find a better handing or riding
bus, and I've driven many Prevost's over the years. On the other hand, I am a
slightly biased LXi
owner so feel free to take all of this with a grain of salt!. LOL.

Good luck in your search.

David Brady
'02 LXi, NC

-----Original Message-----
From: brad barton
Sent: Jan 17, 2010 8:10 PM
To: wanderlodgeforum@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Help...Us buy our first motoerhome.. ....

Wave,
I am only a civilian, not a mechanic, so these are just my impressions. There are many others who would disagree. Compared to my 35'FC and the 43' LXi, the Newell had much less vertical movement in travel. It's just the way different manufacturers set up the suspension and handle the weight on their coaches.
My opinion is that the 43' length of the coach, exaggerated by the wide travel of the suspension produced either flexes or possibly shocks that resulted in several failures plus chatters, chirps and rattles, alllocated near the middle of the coach which I outlined earlier. Maybe they were all unrelated. Maybe I just had some bad luck- Ican't sayfor sure.
Don't get me wrong, my LXi was, and still is the most elegant coach I've ever seen.I'm glad I had the experience of owning it. If I was forced to make a choice right now though, I'd take a close look at
a non-slide LXi, a PT40 or an LX if they were impeccably maintained or re-done.
Best of luck,
Brad




"bbartonwx@hotmail.com"

---

To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com
From: w5sk@earthlink. net
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 15:57:36 +0000
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Help...Us buy our first motoerhome.. ....

Brad,

I am new to this forum. Have owned several glass coaches but looking to move up to a bus. Currently in a 40' Vogue V 96 which is really a very nice fiberglass Prevost look alike.

You said that the 43 foot Wonderlodge had some issues with the ride. Do you think that was the length or the chassis. Could you tell me more?

Thanks,

Wave
Near Medicine Park, Ok.
96 Vogue V
still working

--- In "WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com", brad barton <bbartonwx@. ..> wrote:
>
>
> Clyde,
>
> I've owned an 84 FC Blue Bird Wanderlodge, an 86 Newell and a 2000 Wanderlodge LXi. For what it's worth, my 84 FC was the most trouble-free coach I had, but underpowered (for my taste).
>
> The 86 Newell was the best handling
coach I had, a pleasure to drive, but a few of the parts were getting hard to find in 2004. My LXi was more problematic than I thought it should've been. I think the 43' length, excessive vertical movement and body flex were related to several problems. I'd rather stay at 38-40'.
>
>
>
> Since you're in St. Louis, you'd be fairly close to the Newell factory in Miami, OK. And they are a pleasure to deal with on maintenance and service issues (as I'm sure Blue Bird was when their factory was still in business). A later-model Newell (Series 2000 or newer) in pristine condition would be a good choice, just keep it serviced at the factory.
>
>
>
> A late 80's to mid 90's Wanderlodge PT40 or SP36 would be fine if it's been renovated and free of rust.
>
>
>
> If I were in the market for a bus-style coach, I'd find out who services Prevost and Marathon coaches in my area and get
their opinion on parts and maintenance.
>
> And, if you buy a metal coach, you'll probably never want to buy a fiberglass coach again, no matter what the price.
>
>
> No coach, new, used, metal or plastic will be a snap to own and run. You have to be prepared financially and emotionally for wear, tear, breakage, replacement parts and plenty of maintenance. One other thing that's real important is..no leaks. No air leaks at the door, no water leaks anywhere, roof, windows, tanks or valves. They have a way of causing more damage to more things than you can imagine. If it leaks, and they won't guarantee the fix, keep looking. Best of luck.
>
>
> bbartonwx@.. .
>
>
>
>
>
> To: "WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com"
> From:
cmlintx@...
> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 07:07:50 -0800
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Help...Us buy our first motoerhome.. ....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> My wife and I would like to buy a diesel pusher this spring. In your opinion, would it be better to buy an older Blue Bird, Prevost, or Newell or....... a newer Newmar, Holiday Rambler, Fleetwood, or Tiffin? Our funds are limited so a new ones are out of the question.
>
> Your opinion is welcome and needed!!
>
> Thank You,
> Clyde Byram
> St. Louis, MO
> Want-A-Be Motorhomer
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
> http://clk.atdmt. com/GBL/go/ 196390707/
direct/01/
>

---

Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. Get it now.

---

Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!

[Pete Masterson]

Interesting....

The general suggestion, particularly on an older coach, is to hold back about $10K to cover "contingencies."

The 5K per year is a fair guess for regular maintenance -- less if you can do it yourself -- more if you are incapable of lifting a wrench at all.

I think there's a certain randomness to the problems....

1. In 3 years, I had zero, nada, zip maintenance issues with the Microphor toilet. This air-driven toilet was pressurized by a Microphor-brand (12 vdc) pancake compressor in the basement.

2. The gas/electric "camper" style refrigerators often get complaints. My coach had a full-size home-style 22 cu ft Amana side by side. Rapid weather changes related to moving from place to place caused some internal temperature problems -- but a refrigerator thermometer helped -- I'd just have to adjust the settings if it started to get too warm or too cold. This ran off inverters unless there was shore power or the generator was on. The "nice to do someday" list was to get a newer, much more efficient refrigerator, as this one was a bit of a power hog and would run the batteries down fairly quickly when off the grid. (My coach was "all electric" (no gas on board) -- that had plusses and minuses.)

3. Water leaks. I _thought_ I had a rain water leak, but I eventually traced it to the center AC drain line. The line was blocked somewhere, and the condensation would dump into the cabinets over the galley. I could avoid the problem by just running the front and/or rear ACs instead. After 3 years, I eventually had a rain leak by the Fantastic Fan vent. Cleaned the old caulk (multiple layers, a real mess) and re-sealed. No more leak. Surprised, considering the messy job of previous caulkers, that it didn't leak sooner.

4. Never had any plumbing leaks.

5. Had some issues with the latching mechanism in the front door. Required stripping it down, cleaning, adjusting, and replacing a spring that broke. Had to re-install the safety stop after opening the door during a 70 mph gust in the tail end of hurricane Ike. (Stripped out a couple of screws in the safety stop -- installed a metal plate to give them better strength.)

I did have expenses due to getting a new radiator core (about $4K with labor and some other work), and a stress-fracture to the left front shock mount. Came to about $1500 with a new shock ($700 -- the old one was bent by the failure) and the necessary welding.

Drive axle brake linings had to be renewed -- about $600 -- including new drive axle shocks. (Fortunately, they were not the expensive ones used up front.)

New muffler, with labor about $1300. In hindsight, I might have done this differently, but there would have been very little cost savings.

Pete Masterson

(former) '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

On Jan 18, 2010, at 3:26 PM, brad barton wrote:

Mark,
Again, just a non-mechanic civilian, but from memory, I'll tell you what my most repetitive problems were.
#1 Microphor air toilet. If it wasn't one of the air or water valves, it was the pump. If it wasn't the pump, it was the breaker. By far, the toilet gave me more trouble than any other single part.
Potential fix is replacing the 12v pump w/ 120v compressor that runs on inverter or installing asimpler camping toilet IF it was on topof the holding tank.
#2Refrigerator. Worked fine the first few months, thenit quit working while in motion.Refrigerant showed no leaks, power was okay, circuit board okay, doors were okay, venting okay (after several attempts at all areas to diagnose and fix). We completely removed and re-sealed the existing cooling unit and it still didn't work when in motion. Temecula Valley RV installed a new cooling unit for the new owners.
#3 On my Newell, we had water leaks around the window, windshield (new)and skylights. Eventually sealed both automotive skylights with silicon, disabling them and had the factory reseal the windows. Still not water tight but better when sold.
#4 Plumbing leaks (both coaches). In my book, plumbing and water leaks must be dealt with as a near-emergency because they can blow your electricity disabling the entire coach or cause rotting and rust that is undetectable until much damage has been done. Inspecting for water leaks or evidence of water leaks from the roof-joints to the basement floor is very important. One electrical problem caused by water leaks can lead to many more.
One fix is never to winterize your coach, just pay to keep it plugged in or running diesel or gas heat in the winter. There is no way to be absolutely sure that your coach water pipes havebeen winterized unless you run antifreeze through them.
#5 Entry door. Weight, alignment, gunk in the locking mechanism, weather-stripping and sun/heat exposure can cause leaks and warping.

I have no ideahow much a normal maintenance should run. If you're at peace and happy with the coach regardless of your repairs, then it's not too much. If it's making you unhappy, it's too much. Coaches are supposed to make us happy.

This forum is a good place to learn how to avoid problems or work around them.
Best of luck,
Brad

"bbartonwx@hotmail.com"

---

To:"WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com"
From:"summitwolf@comcast.net"
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2010 13:36:46 -0700
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Help...Us buy our first motoerhome......

BB you wrote,

No coach, new, used, metal or plastic will be a snap to own
> and run. You have to be prepared financially and emotionally
> for wear, tear, breakage, replacement parts and plenty of
> maintenance. One other thing that's real important is..no
> leaks. No air leaks at the door, no water leaks anywhere,
> roof, windows, tanks or valves. They have a way of causing
> more damage to more things than you can imagine. If it leaks,
> and they won't guarantee the fix, keep looking. Best of luck.

Just curious what you think you think it’s reasonable to need to spend on maintainance.

What problems seem to happen the most?

My wife and I will soon retire and are considering an older DP to fulltime in. I don’t mind and am very capable of

Working on a coach. Stuff that is expensive though might be a problem.

Mark

Northglenn,Co.

---

Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection.Sign up now.

[Wavel Wells]

Good Morning,

On the Prevost side - I think I like the rivited coaches (XL) both from cost and from appearance. Maybe 98 to 2000 with IFS - no slides.

On the BB - I am just learning. Probably 200k $ limit. The cost has been dropping quickly on both - not sure where the bottom is yet or if there will be one.

I note that you suggested LXi 2004 or earlier?

Wave

---

From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ross MacKillop
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2010 6:08 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Help...Us buy our first motoerhome......

HI,

What years or $ are you considering for a coach.

Prevost - best to consider 2004 shell (2005 conversion) or later. Has front axle upgrade

Blue Bird--LXi 2004 or earlier.

Ross

06 LXi

---

From: wavel net>
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, January 18, 2010 3:36:30 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Help...Us buy our first motoerhome......

David,

Thanks you for the insight.You are right - I do not have an agenda except to move up to a bus - which means I am looking at Prevost and Bluebird. I am sure that topic has come before the group many times.It appears that BB is the better bargin- but I am not sure about the rest of the equation. I really appreciate the group and what they mean to a prospective owner.

Wave

SW Oklahoma

-----Original Message-----
From: david brady
Sent: Jan 17, 2010 10:58 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Help...Us buy our first motoerhome.. ....

Wave,

I'm sure you have good intentions so I'll followup. The factory used
2 different bars on the LXi. A 1.75" diameter bar and a 2.125" diameter
bar. My bus came equipped with the 2.125". I don't know why they
used two bars; since there's no factory at this point one could only
speculate. I haven't had an opportunity to try the softer 1.75" bar.
It may be just right. All I know for certain is that the 2.125" bar is too
stiff. Over the years I've noticed that we Wanderlodge owners aren't
afraid to tune our buses to our personal tastes. Many of us are engineers,
or have years of trucking experience, or race car experience, or hands
on mechanical experience and knowledge. One thing I've learned over
the years is to never prejudge a Wanderlodge owner; we are a credentialed
lot.

David Brady
'02 LXi, NC


On 1/17/2010 10:42 PM, wavel wrote:

Can imagine someone new to the product feeling like they have to second guess the engineers at BB by removing the anti sway bar for an acceptable ride on the LXi? Should these issues not be worked out at the factory?

Wave

-----Original Message-----
From: David Brady
Sent: Jan 17, 2010 8:58 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Help...Us buy our first motoerhome.. ....

Hi Brad,

Thanks for your clarification. You may be on to something. There's simply
no way to build something as big as an LXi and not have any flex in the
chassis, and indeed there is strength in flexibility. The LXi is a departure
from the usual Wanderlodge build methods. It still uses the main c-channel
backbone, but in addition, it adds supporting framework that envelops the
backbone. The FC's, PT's and even the Wide Bodies, are all essentially
box over frame construction. The box adds considerable stiffness to what
would otherwise be a rather whippy c-channel backbone. There was no way
that this style of construction could stand a hole cut in the side for a slide.
The engineers needed to rethink the structure. In the LXi you'll find the c-channnel
backbone, and connected to it a stout set of triangulated boxes that make up the
basement. Along the perimeter of the skin there are 5 sets of stout longitudinal
structures, (1) a pair of longitudinal frame rails that run underneath the basement
from steer axle to drive axle, (2) extruded aluminum torque tubes at the top
corners of the roof, (3) the belt bar that runs the full length of the coach at
the base of the windows, (4) the hip beam that runs the full length of the coach
at floor level, and (5) a beam that runs at the basement floor outer corner from
the steer to the drive axle. All of these have vertical supports posts tying the beams
together at the outer skin. The inside walls are also steel gusseted from floor
level to the belt bar under the windows. The joints are welded or huck bolted
together. The folks at the factory, whom I've spoken with, have nothing but praise
for the rigidity of the slide equipped LXi. It is a rather amazing piece representing
40 years of evolution along with new design elements meant to support slide
technology. In my view it's more of a perimeter design than the older box on
frame style, meaning that the space frame envelops the c-channel and the two
work in harmony. My hats off to the folks who did it. Now does it ride rough?
In stock form it does. As everyone here knows by now, I removed my OEM
steer axle anti-sway bar and am overwhelmed by the improvement in ride and
handling. The stock bar is simply too stiff. This stiffness results in almost no
independent steer axle wheel movement and excessive vertical suspension
movement. This may be the cause of some of the issues owners have expressed
with their buses. There may be other causes: tire pressures, ride height, shocks,
maybe a chassis that's too stiff. I don't know. My own experience is that with
the anti-sway bar removed you'll be hard pressed to find a better handing or riding
bus, and I've driven many Prevost's over the years. On the other hand, I am a
slightly biased LXi owner so feel free to take all of this with a grain of salt!. LOL.

Good luck in your search.

David Brady
'02 LXi, NC

-----Original Message-----
From: brad barton
Sent: Jan 17, 2010 8:10 PM
To: wanderlodgeforum@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Help...Us buy our first motoerhome.. ....

Wave,
I am only a civilian, not a mechanic, so these are just my impressions. There are many others who would disagree. Compared to my 35'FC and the 43' LXi, the Newell had much less vertical movement in travel. It's just the way different manufacturers set up the suspension and handle the weight on their coaches.
My opinion is that the 43' length of the coach, exaggerated by the wide travel of the suspension produced either flexes or possibly shocks that resulted in several failures plus chatters, chirps and rattles, alllocated near the middle of the coach which I outlined earlier. Maybe they were all unrelated. Maybe I just had some bad luck- Ican't sayfor sure.
Don't get me wrong, my LXi was, and still is the most elegant coach I've ever seen.I'm glad I had the experience of owning it. If I was forced to make a choice right now though, I'd take a close look at a non-slide LXi, a PT40 or an LX if they were impeccably maintained or re-done.
Best of luck,
Brad




"bbartonwx@hotmail.com"

---

To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com
From: w5sk@earthlink. net
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 2010 15:57:36 +0000
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Help...Us buy our first motoerhome.. ....

Brad,

I am new to this forum. Have owned several glass coaches but looking to move up to a bus. Currently in a 40' Vogue V 96 which is really a very nice fiberglass Prevost look alike.

You said that the 43 foot Wonderlodge had some issues with the ride. Do you think that was the length or the chassis. Could you tell me more?

Thanks,

Wave
Near Medicine Park, Ok.
96 Vogue V
still working

--- In "WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com", brad barton <bbartonwx@. ..> wrote:
>
>
> Clyde,
>
> I've owned an 84 FC Blue Bird Wanderlodge, an 86 Newell and a 2000 Wanderlodge LXi. For what it's worth, my 84 FC was the most trouble-free coach I had, but underpowered (for my taste).
>
> The 86 Newell was the best handling coach I had, a pleasure to drive, but a few of the parts were getting hard to find in 2004. My LXi was more problematic than I thought it should've been. I think the 43' length, excessive vertical movement and body flex were related to several problems. I'd rather stay at 38-40'.
>
>
>
> Since you're in St. Louis, you'd be fairly close to the Newell factory in Miami, OK. And they are a pleasure to deal with on maintenance and service issues (as I'm sure Blue Bird was when their factory was still in business). A later-model Newell (Series 2000 or newer) in pristine condition would be a good choice, just keep it serviced at the factory.
>
>
>
> A late 80's to mid 90's Wanderlodge PT40 or SP36 would be fine if it's been renovated and free of rust.
>
>
>
> If I were in the market for a bus-style coach, I'd find out who services Prevost and Marathon coaches in my area and get their opinion on parts and maintenance.
>
> And, if you buy a metal coach, you'll probably never want to buy a fiberglass coach again, no matter what the price.
>
>
> No coach, new, used, metal or plastic will be a snap to own and run. You have to be prepared financially and emotionally for wear, tear, breakage, replacement parts and plenty of maintenance. One other thing that's real important is..no leaks. No air leaks at the door, no water leaks anywhere, roof, windows, tanks or valves. They have a way of causing more damage to more things than you can imagine. If it leaks, and they won't guarantee the fix, keep looking. Best of luck.
>
>
> bbartonwx@.. .
>
>
>
>
>
> To: "WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com"
> From: cmlintx@...
> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2010 07:07:50 -0800
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Help...Us buy our first motoerhome.. ....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> My wife and I would like to buy a diesel pusher this spring. In your opinion, would it be better to buy an older Blue Bird, Prevost, or Newell or....... a newer Newmar, Holiday Rambler, Fleetwood, or Tiffin? Our funds are limited so a new ones are out of the question.
>
> Your opinion is welcome and needed!!
>
> Thank You,
> Clyde Byram
> St. Louis, MO
> Want-A-Be Motorhomer
>
>
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
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