Cat 3208 injector pump

[xz3kg7]

I had some problems with my Bird engine starting/stopping. So I thought it was
the fuel solenoid. But turns out not so.

I removed my fuel solenoid, and my Bird still wouldn't start, so I pulled up the
lever inside where the fuel solenoid goes, and it started immediately. I found
something on another site and figured out this lever should automatically come
up when the cat is turned over... but it isn't. Apparently it is "sticky" as my
solenoid was also having trouble pushing it down to turn it off.

Any insight on how to proceed with this problem? I looked around for some other
posts, but didn't find any... however let me know if this has already been
addressed on the forum.

Thanks!
Alan Johnson
87FC35

ps. I just got back from a New Year's trip to South Padre. I was maybe a half
dozen other Birds there!

[Michael]

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "xz3kg7" wrote:
>
> I had some problems with my Bird engine starting/stopping. So I thought it was
the fuel solenoid. But turns out not so.
>
> I removed my fuel solenoid, and my Bird still wouldn't start, so I pulled up
the lever inside where the fuel solenoid goes, and it started immediately. I
found something on another site and figured out this lever should automatically
come up when the cat is turned over... but it isn't. Apparently it is "sticky"
as my solenoid was also having trouble pushing it down to turn it off.
>
> Any insight on how to proceed with this problem? I looked around for some
other posts, but didn't find any... however let me know if this has already been
addressed on the forum.
>
>
> Alan Johnson
> 87FC35
>
> ps. I just got back from a New Year's trip to South Padre. I was maybe a half
dozen other Birds there!
>


There is a lip seal on the shaft that the solinoid controls. It is known for
getting sticky. It can also leak. I would move the lever to the off position,
if it sticks mash the throttle a couple times to see if it moves, usually works
for me when mine won't fire up. Shoot some silicone lube toward the back of the
pump on the shaft, work it a few times to see if it get's better. Like I say, I
alway pump mine a couple times before trying to start, seems to help.

[R E BRAKE]

Check solenoid off engine. It is power applied (12 volt) you should here it click when you turn the key on. when you turn key off spring pressure shuts off fuel. RE --- On Mon, 1/4/10, Michael <MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote: From: Michael <MHOHNSTEIN@...> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cat 3208 injector pump To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, January 4, 2010, 7:48 PM --- In WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com, "xz3kg7" wrote: > > I had some problems with my Bird engine starting/stopping. So I thought it was the fuel solenoid. But turns out not so. > > I removed my fuel solenoid, and my Bird still wouldn't start, so I pulled up the lever inside where the fuel solenoid goes, and it started immediately. I found something on another site and figured out this lever should automatically come up when the cat is turned over... but it isn't. Apparently it is "sticky" as my solenoid was also having trouble pushing it down to turn it off. > > Any insight on how to proceed with this problem? I looked around for some other posts, but didn't find any... however let me know if this has already been addressed on the forum. > > > Alan Johnson > 87FC35 > > ps. I just got back from a New Year's trip to South Padre. I was maybe a half dozen other Birds there! > There is a lip seal on the shaft that the solinoid controls. It is known for getting sticky. It can also leak. I would move the lever to the off position, if it sticks mash the throttle a couple times to see if it moves, usually works for me when mine won't fire up. Shoot some silicone lube toward the back of the pump on the shaft, work it a few times to see if it get's better. Like I say, I alway pump mine a couple times before trying to start, seems to help.

[xz3kg7]

Hey Mike,

Thanks for the insight. Can you clarify a couple points for me?
1. What can leak? Diesel?
2. In mine, it looks like the lever goes from the hole towards the port side of
the coach. I therefore assume I would shoot the silicone in the hole, off to
that side to try to free whatever is sticking..??
3. I assume mashing the accelerator only does something when there is air in the
system, but not when it has been sitting and there is no air, correct?

Thanks again,
Alan Johnson
87FC35

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "xz3kg7" wrote:
> >
> > I had some problems with my Bird engine starting/stopping. So I thought it
was the fuel solenoid. But turns out not so.
> >
> > I removed my fuel solenoid, and my Bird still wouldn't start, so I pulled up
the lever inside where the fuel solenoid goes, and it started immediately. I
found something on another site and figured out this lever should automatically
come up when the cat is turned over... but it isn't. Apparently it is "sticky"
as my solenoid was also having trouble pushing it down to turn it off.
> >
> > Any insight on how to proceed with this problem? I looked around for some
other posts, but didn't find any... however let me know if this has already been
addressed on the forum.
> >
> >
> > Alan Johnson
> > 87FC35
> >
> > ps. I just got back from a New Year's trip to South Padre. I was maybe a
half dozen other Birds there!
> >
>
>
> There is a lip seal on the shaft that the solinoid controls. It is known for
getting sticky. It can also leak. I would move the lever to the off position,
if it sticks mash the throttle a couple times to see if it moves, usually works
for me when mine won't fire up. Shoot some silicone lube toward the back of the
pump on the shaft, work it a few times to see if it get's better. Like I say, I
alway pump mine a couple times before trying to start, seems to help.
>

[Michael]

Mashing the thottle bumps the shaft so it will move, seal is tight on the shaft.
If it leaks, it's diesel. The area is dry where the solinoid index's the shut
down lever. The lever extends into the area that is charged with fuel. Think
mechanical on/off switch.

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "xz3kg7" wrote:
>
> Hey Mike,
>
> Thanks for the insight. Can you clarify a couple points for me?
> 1. What can leak? Diesel?
> 2. In mine, it looks like the lever goes from the hole towards the port side
of the coach. I therefore assume I would shoot the silicone in the hole, off to
that side to try to free whatever is sticking..??
> 3. I assume mashing the accelerator only does something when there is air in
the system, but not when it has been sitting and there is no air, correct?
>
> Thanks again,
> Alan Johnson
> 87FC35
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Michael" <MHOHNSTEIN@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "xz3kg7" wrote:
> > >
> > > I had some problems with my Bird engine starting/stopping. So I thought it
was the fuel solenoid. But turns out not so.
> > >
> > > I removed my fuel solenoid, and my Bird still wouldn't start, so I pulled
up the lever inside where the fuel solenoid goes, and it started immediately. I
found something on another site and figured out this lever should automatically
come up when the cat is turned over... but it isn't. Apparently it is "sticky"
as my solenoid was also having trouble pushing it down to turn it off.
> > >
> > > Any insight on how to proceed with this problem? I looked around for some
other posts, but didn't find any... however let me know if this has already been
addressed on the forum.
> > >
> > >
> > > Alan Johnson
> > > 87FC35
> > >
> > > ps. I just got back from a New Year's trip to South Padre. I was maybe a
half dozen other Birds there!
> > >
> >
> >
> > There is a lip seal on the shaft that the solinoid controls. It is known
for getting sticky. It can also leak. I would move the lever to the off
position, if it sticks mash the throttle a couple times to see if it moves,
usually works for me when mine won't fire up. Shoot some silicone lube toward
the back of the pump on the shaft, work it a few times to see if it get's
better. Like I say, I alway pump mine a couple times before trying to start,
seems to help.
> >
>

[ajo]

My venerable 3208 came down with a serious case of "No-Start" a fer days ago and after much diligent searching your post percolated to the top of the heap. Between your comments and those of my local mechanic I went to work...

I have learnt at least two important lessons and a few facts:

The official CAT Service Manual(s) and Parts books are poorly indexed and
the various specification tables are incomplete.

There is no comprehensive theory of operation chapter.

To be lifted into the run position the ON/OFF fuel control lever depends
upon Fuel Pressure *provided by the [external] "fuel transfer pump"* as
well as the magnetic attraction of the armature of the energised fuel
cutoff solenoid. However those two points of functionality are not
mentioned anywhere and are easily overcome by whatever is/was causing the
stickiness in the rack within the injector pump mechanism.

Several articles I read from other people with this same problem danced
around various fixes without addressing the functionality or if any of
their fixes actually worked.

"Tromp on the foot throttle while cranking is what usually works for me."
"The engine should start and run with the cut-off solenoid removed, if it
doesn't then you know it prob'ly know isn't the solenoid."

Allan had the best advice: Hit it with a hammer. Well, I never got that
far. But I did add a cup of injector cleaner to the secondary fuel filter
and then forced the motor to start by lifting the lever with my specially
designed custom lever-lifting tool. Then I worked the throttle a dozen
times and shut down.

The spec for Fuel Transfer Pump pressure requirement is buried in the
Troubleshooting section on pp54 of one copy of the two Service Manuals I
have. "...3psi at cranking speed." Whilst measuring that pressure--with the
motor NOT running--I determined that my primary fuel pump is working and
that the primary and secondary filters are good enough. Then, I observed
the fuel control lever lifting on its own into the run position. That was a
dandy good sign. The cleaner did some good. Hammer unnecessary.

I had also observed that the magnet of one of those extendable magnetic
screw-picker-upper tools is enough to lift the lever. So I tested the
solenoid and determined that the armature becomes quite a strong magnet
when energised. Together, both of these forces--fuel pressure and solenoid
electro magnet--were not enough to pull the lever up against the stickiness
of the rack within the injector pump. /That was the whole problem to begin
with/. However after the second application of injector cleaner and
reinstallation of the cutoff solenoid the motor started normally thrice.

So I wonder, at this point years later: Did you get your 3208 to start?

--ajo

Tourists don't know where they've been.
Travellers don't know where they're going.
--Paul Theroux

[davidbrady]

Welcome to the forum Paul, and thanks for posting about your experience.

[RainbowrvGreg]

Paul,
the 3208 returns a bunch of fuel to the tank. if it shows up again, try pinching off the return line. I have pressurized the tank with 10 psi of air to push my Cummings n-14 fuel up to prime by airing up the vent off of the tank. On newer electronic diesel motors the diesel return to the tank is the coolant used to transfer heat away from the computer. Lift pumps do a bunch of stuff. Good info thanks.