RIV and Blue Bird "Brand"

[Tom]

One of the selling points of MH ownership is the lifestyle...kind of
like when Harley sells motorcycles. The "brand" rallies are an
important part of that and if BB is to remain a quality brand...the
rally must be an anticipated event and well attended.

You read frequently about the "brand" rallies for Country Coach,
American Coach, Newell, Foretravel, Newmar, Tiffin, Winnebago and
others. Many owners pride themselves on not missing any annual
rallies. If the BB loyalists sit on the sidelines (or accross the
street) it is likely that the rally will atrophy and die. I don't
think that is good for any Blue Bird owner or enthusiast!

I believe I read earlier that BB understands that the changes to RIV
may have been too much...too soon? If this is true I would think it
would make sense to be supportive in helping define an RIV that would
again be exciting and well attended. If, on the other hand, BB is non-
reflective and non-supportive regarding the rally format and
costs...well...that probably tells you where they sit relative to the
BB "brand" future plans.

Just the musings from a wanbee...not meant to offend...Thank You...Tom
Rootness in Northern Minnesota

P.S. Just visited the Minnesota BB dealer in Anoka...shows another BB
issue. They have two BBs...both '04 (?) demo models used by the two
owners. I don't think they sold a BB in the last 18 months...not
really trying. Maybe they have the brand so the owners can have demos.

Primarily a Tiffin and other brand dealer. BTW they did just take in
a '91 PT 40 on trade on an Allegro Bus. The '91 is quite messy and my
guess is they don't know how to sell it and will end up wholesaleing in
90 days. Asking $139K which IMHO is quite high for a bit dicey '91.
If someone is interested you might want to call them. Shorewood RV in
Anoka, MN. TMR

[mbulriss]

Tom,

I believe that you raise some excellent points. My personal opinion
is that with the rounds of ownership changes in the past years, BB has
lost whatever semblance of lifestyle marketing that they had in the
past. Corporate cost cutting has been the main focus of the new
ownership groups. Additionally, the common ownership of Prevost and
Bluebird probably generated some indirect pressure from that parent
company over having two high end products addressing the same
relatively small market space (in potential number of units, not
dollar volume).

As a result, for the past few years they have had little to no
direction in lifestyle marketing, product and market segmentation, or
overall corporate direction with regard to the Wanderlodge division.
Cutting staff, cutting advertising in the FMCA magazine to zero for a
while (when they used to command the marketing coveted inside front
cover each month), and selling the marketing symbol of the donut wagon
(stated reason too expensive) that used to hit many of the RV
rally/shows (and always got additional free press exposure in rally
coverage), are all symbolic of the loss of direction/dedication to the
market.

In the past eight years that I have owned a Bird, they have never had
a strong and dedicated nationwide dealer network. Holland, Bleakley
and Parliament are the exceptions to that and the three shining stars
of their dealer network, carrying real inventory, but very regionally
spaced. The other "dealers" are mostly what you see at Shorewood,
IMO. Even when Buddy Gregg was a dealer, I never saw more than 4-5 BB
in total on his Dallas lot (new and used). Since Buddy quit, we have
had three "dealers" in Texas come and go. The first two after Buddy
never even had any inventory as far as I know, and the newest "dealer"
is historically a consignment lot and has one new LXi listed on its
website (unknown if it actually exists on-site or is on order) and one
1990 on consignment. I stopped at a then-listed "dealer" near Albany,
NY (Alpine?) on a trip a few years back in time and they had no BB
inventory, and no sales person that knew anything about them.

The less than stellar dealer network was not important a few years
back when BB actually had some marketing effort, was the brand to be
aspired to, was selling everything they made and there was less
competition in their market space. In the last few years while they
have been floundering, the market for higher end coaches has grown
tremendously due to baby boomers, and numerous other players have
entered the market space. We have to hope that BB regains some sense
of marketing and starts developing a real market segmentation and
product plan. In the meantime we have these wonderful coaches they
have produced that will outlive most of us on this forum. These
forums can also serve to fill the gap in the lifestyle marketing by
creating camaraderie, a knowledge and support base, and on-going
demand for the products. All of this is helpful to the company as
the management team tries to re-invigorate the brand. Maybe someone
there will realize this someday.

Mike Bulriss
83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale
91 PT40 "Texas Minivan"
San Antonio, TX

P.S. I would also be suspicious of a '91 PT 40 traded in on an
Allegro Bus! But in the meantime, if someone offered me $139K for my
'91, it would be gone.....



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" wrote:
>
> One of the selling points of MH ownership is the lifestyle...kind of
> like when Harley sells motorcycles. The "brand" rallies are an
> important part of that and if BB is to remain a quality brand...the
> rally must be an anticipated event and well attended.
>
> You read frequently about the "brand" rallies for Country Coach,
> American Coach, Newell, Foretravel, Newmar, Tiffin, Winnebago and
> others. Many owners pride themselves on not missing any annual
> rallies. If the BB loyalists sit on the sidelines (or accross the
> street) it is likely that the rally will atrophy and die. I don't
> think that is good for any Blue Bird owner or enthusiast!
>
> I believe I read earlier that BB understands that the changes to RIV
> may have been too much...too soon? If this is true I would think it
> would make sense to be supportive in helping define an RIV that would
> again be exciting and well attended. If, on the other hand, BB is non-
> reflective and non-supportive regarding the rally format and
> costs...well...that probably tells you where they sit relative to the
> BB "brand" future plans.
>
> Just the musings from a wanbee...not meant to offend...Thank You...Tom
> Rootness in Northern Minnesota
>
> P.S. Just visited the Minnesota BB dealer in Anoka...shows another BB
> issue. They have two BBs...both '04 (?) demo models used by the two
> owners. I don't think they sold a BB in the last 18 months...not
> really trying. Maybe they have the brand so the owners can have demos.
>
> Primarily a Tiffin and other brand dealer. BTW they did just take in
> a '91 PT 40 on trade on an Allegro Bus. The '91 is quite messy and my
> guess is they don't know how to sell it and will end up wholesaleing in
> 90 days. Asking $139K which IMHO is quite high for a bit dicey '91.
> If someone is interested you might want to call them. Shorewood RV in
> Anoka, MN. TMR
>

[pattypape]

I visited and took the BB factory tour last year.
I may be mis-taken, but I got the impression, that a newly
built Wanderlodge is always ordered by an owner or a dealership.
They are not built for stocking inventory.

Bill 88 FC


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss" <mbulriss@y...>
wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
> I believe that you raise some excellent points. My personal
opinion
> is that with the rounds of ownership changes in the past years, BB
has
> lost whatever semblance of lifestyle marketing that they had in the
> past. Corporate cost cutting has been the main focus of the new
> ownership groups. Additionally, the common ownership of Prevost
and
> Bluebird probably generated some indirect pressure from that parent
> company over having two high end products addressing the same
> relatively small market space (in potential number of units, not
> dollar volume).
>
> As a result, for the past few years they have had little to no
> direction in lifestyle marketing, product and market segmentation,
or
> overall corporate direction with regard to the Wanderlodge
division.
> Cutting staff, cutting advertising in the FMCA magazine to zero
for a
> while (when they used to command the marketing coveted inside front
> cover each month), and selling the marketing symbol of the donut
wagon
> (stated reason too expensive) that used to hit many of the RV
> rally/shows (and always got additional free press exposure in rally
> coverage), are all symbolic of the loss of direction/dedication to
the
> market.
>
> In the past eight years that I have owned a Bird, they have never
had
> a strong and dedicated nationwide dealer network. Holland,
Bleakley
> and Parliament are the exceptions to that and the three shining
stars
> of their dealer network, carrying real inventory, but very
regionally
> spaced. The other "dealers" are mostly what you see at Shorewood,
> IMO. Even when Buddy Gregg was a dealer, I never saw more than 4-
5 BB
> in total on his Dallas lot (new and used). Since Buddy quit, we
have
> had three "dealers" in Texas come and go. The first two after
Buddy
> never even had any inventory as far as I know, and the
newest "dealer"
> is historically a consignment lot and has one new LXi listed on its
> website (unknown if it actually exists on-site or is on order) and
one
> 1990 on consignment. I stopped at a then-listed "dealer" near
Albany,
> NY (Alpine?) on a trip a few years back in time and they had no BB
> inventory, and no sales person that knew anything about them.
>
> The less than stellar dealer network was not important a few years
> back when BB actually had some marketing effort, was the brand to
be
> aspired to, was selling everything they made and there was less
> competition in their market space. In the last few years while
they
> have been floundering, the market for higher end coaches has grown
> tremendously due to baby boomers, and numerous other players have
> entered the market space. We have to hope that BB regains some
sense
> of marketing and starts developing a real market segmentation and
> product plan. In the meantime we have these wonderful coaches they
> have produced that will outlive most of us on this forum. These
> forums can also serve to fill the gap in the lifestyle marketing by
> creating camaraderie, a knowledge and support base, and on-going
> demand for the products. All of this is helpful to the company as
> the management team tries to re-invigorate the brand. Maybe
someone
> there will realize this someday.
>
> Mike Bulriss
> 83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale
> 91 PT40 "Texas Minivan"
> San Antonio, TX
>
> P.S. I would also be suspicious of a '91 PT 40 traded in on an
> Allegro Bus! But in the meantime, if someone offered me $139K
for my
> '91, it would be gone.....
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Tom"
wrote:
> >
> > One of the selling points of MH ownership is the
lifestyle...kind of
> > like when Harley sells motorcycles. The "brand" rallies are an
> > important part of that and if BB is to remain a quality
brand...the
> > rally must be an anticipated event and well attended.
> >
> > You read frequently about the "brand" rallies for Country Coach,
> > American Coach, Newell, Foretravel, Newmar, Tiffin, Winnebago
and
> > others. Many owners pride themselves on not missing any annual
> > rallies. If the BB loyalists sit on the sidelines (or accross
the
> > street) it is likely that the rally will atrophy and die. I
don't
> > think that is good for any Blue Bird owner or enthusiast!
> >
> > I believe I read earlier that BB understands that the changes to
RIV
> > may have been too much...too soon? If this is true I would
think it
> > would make sense to be supportive in helping define an RIV that
would
> > again be exciting and well attended. If, on the other hand, BB
is non-
> > reflective and non-supportive regarding the rally format and
> > costs...well...that probably tells you where they sit relative
to the
> > BB "brand" future plans.
> >
> > Just the musings from a wanbee...not meant to offend...Thank
You...Tom
> > Rootness in Northern Minnesota
> >
> > P.S. Just visited the Minnesota BB dealer in Anoka...shows
another BB
> > issue. They have two BBs...both '04 (?) demo models used by the
two
> > owners. I don't think they sold a BB in the last 18
months...not
> > really trying. Maybe they have the brand so the owners can have
demos.
> >
> > Primarily a Tiffin and other brand dealer. BTW they did just
take in
> > a '91 PT 40 on trade on an Allegro Bus. The '91 is quite messy
and my
> > guess is they don't know how to sell it and will end up
wholesaleing in
> > 90 days. Asking $139K which IMHO is quite high for a bit
dicey '91.
> > If someone is interested you might want to call them. Shorewood
RV in
> > Anoka, MN. TMR
> >
>

[Henry Jay Hannigan]

--- My 2 cents worth about Bluebird........I love my 90SP36..no tag
etc. BB got it right when they made the M380..almost same as my
90SP36 (check the specs) I think they would have sold a TON of the
M380"s IF the ENGINEERS would have got it right!!!
Regretably the ENGINEERS for whatever reason..bad grades in
engineering school, cost cutting measures, WHATEVER, DID NOT get it
right.
The M380 could have revolutionized BB, instead, the M380 hurt BB.
I still love my 90SP36 and have encouraged the BB President ceo etc.
to make a 2007 version of my beautiful 90SP36.....make it 38 feet
long, NO tag, MID door...AND get some excellent ENGINEERS to design
it and sell it for $595,000...TO me, this action would put BB back
on top!!
That's my 2 cents worth......What do others think??
sincerely,
Hank Hannigan
Beautiful 90SP36
Still in Hawaii(two more weeks)





In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss" <mbulriss@y...>
wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
> I believe that you raise some excellent points. My personal
opinion
> is that with the rounds of ownership changes in the past years, BB
has
> lost whatever semblance of lifestyle marketing that they had in the
> past. Corporate cost cutting has been the main focus of the new
> ownership groups. Additionally, the common ownership of Prevost
and
> Bluebird probably generated some indirect pressure from that parent
> company over having two high end products addressing the same
> relatively small market space (in potential number of units, not
> dollar volume).
>
> As a result, for the past few years they have had little to no
> direction in lifestyle marketing, product and market segmentation,
or
> overall corporate direction with regard to the Wanderlodge
division.
> Cutting staff, cutting advertising in the FMCA magazine to zero
for a
> while (when they used to command the marketing coveted inside front
> cover each month), and selling the marketing symbol of the donut
wagon
> (stated reason too expensive) that used to hit many of the RV
> rally/shows (and always got additional free press exposure in rally
> coverage), are all symbolic of the loss of direction/dedication to
the
> market.
>
> In the past eight years that I have owned a Bird, they have never
had
> a strong and dedicated nationwide dealer network. Holland,
Bleakley
> and Parliament are the exceptions to that and the three shining
stars
> of their dealer network, carrying real inventory, but very
regionally
> spaced. The other "dealers" are mostly what you see at Shorewood,
> IMO. Even when Buddy Gregg was a dealer, I never saw more than 4-
5 BB
> in total on his Dallas lot (new and used). Since Buddy quit, we
have
> had three "dealers" in Texas come and go. The first two after
Buddy
> never even had any inventory as far as I know, and the
newest "dealer"
> is historically a consignment lot and has one new LXi listed on its
> website (unknown if it actually exists on-site or is on order) and
one
> 1990 on consignment. I stopped at a then-listed "dealer" near
Albany,
> NY (Alpine?) on a trip a few years back in time and they had no BB
> inventory, and no sales person that knew anything about them.
>
> The less than stellar dealer network was not important a few years
> back when BB actually had some marketing effort, was the brand to
be
> aspired to, was selling everything they made and there was less
> competition in their market space. In the last few years while
they
> have been floundering, the market for higher end coaches has grown
> tremendously due to baby boomers, and numerous other players have
> entered the market space. We have to hope that BB regains some
sense
> of marketing and starts developing a real market segmentation and
> product plan. In the meantime we have these wonderful coaches they
> have produced that will outlive most of us on this forum. These
> forums can also serve to fill the gap in the lifestyle marketing by
> creating camaraderie, a knowledge and support base, and on-going
> demand for the products. All of this is helpful to the company as
> the management team tries to re-invigorate the brand. Maybe
someone
> there will realize this someday.
>
> Mike Bulriss
> 83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale
> 91 PT40 "Texas Minivan"
> San Antonio, TX
>
> P.S. I would also be suspicious of a '91 PT 40 traded in on an
> Allegro Bus! But in the meantime, if someone offered me $139K
for my
> '91, it would be gone.....
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Tom"
wrote:
> >
> > One of the selling points of MH ownership is the
lifestyle...kind of
> > like when Harley sells motorcycles. The "brand" rallies are an
> > important part of that and if BB is to remain a quality
brand...the
> > rally must be an anticipated event and well attended.
> >
> > You read frequently about the "brand" rallies for Country Coach,
> > American Coach, Newell, Foretravel, Newmar, Tiffin, Winnebago
and
> > others. Many owners pride themselves on not missing any annual
> > rallies. If the BB loyalists sit on the sidelines (or accross
the
> > street) it is likely that the rally will atrophy and die. I
don't
> > think that is good for any Blue Bird owner or enthusiast!
> >
> > I believe I read earlier that BB understands that the changes to
RIV
> > may have been too much...too soon? If this is true I would
think it
> > would make sense to be supportive in helping define an RIV that
would
> > again be exciting and well attended. If, on the other hand, BB
is non-
> > reflective and non-supportive regarding the rally format and
> > costs...well...that probably tells you where they sit relative
to the
> > BB "brand" future plans.
> >
> > Just the musings from a wanbee...not meant to offend...Thank
You...Tom
> > Rootness in Northern Minnesota
> >
> > P.S. Just visited the Minnesota BB dealer in Anoka...shows
another BB
> > issue. They have two BBs...both '04 (?) demo models used by the
two
> > owners. I don't think they sold a BB in the last 18
months...not
> > really trying. Maybe they have the brand so the owners can have
demos.
> >
> > Primarily a Tiffin and other brand dealer. BTW they did just
take in
> > a '91 PT 40 on trade on an Allegro Bus. The '91 is quite messy
and my
> > guess is they don't know how to sell it and will end up
wholesaleing in
> > 90 days. Asking $139K which IMHO is quite high for a bit
dicey '91.
> > If someone is interested you might want to call them. Shorewood
RV in
> > Anoka, MN. TMR
> >
>

[James ONeil]

Hank,
I am new to the rv¹s, although have done considerable research, etc. I was
considering the m380, because I liked the size and it was a BB. That being
said when looking at I had the feeling that it was a monaco with a higher
price tag.
Could you enlighten me on its engineering failures.
Thanks,
Jim O¹Neil


On 11/2/05 12:38 PM, "Henry Jay Hannigan" wrote:

> --- My 2 cents worth about Bluebird........I love my 90SP36..no tag
> etc. BB got it right when they made the M380..almost same as my
> 90SP36 (check the specs) I think they would have sold a TON of the
> M380"s IF the ENGINEERS would have got it right!!!
> Regretably the ENGINEERS for whatever reason..bad grades in
> engineering school, cost cutting measures, WHATEVER, DID NOT get it
> right.
> The M380 could have revolutionized BB, instead, the M380 hurt BB.
> I still love my 90SP36 and have encouraged the BB President ceo etc.
> to make a 2007 version of my beautiful 90SP36.....make it 38 feet
> long, NO tag, MID door...AND get some excellent ENGINEERS to design
> it and sell it for $595,000...TO me, this action would put BB back
> on top!!
> That's my 2 cents worth......What do others think??
> sincerely,
> Hank Hannigan
> Beautiful 90SP36
> Still in Hawaii(two more weeks)
>
>
>
>
>
> In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss" <mbulriss@y...>
> wrote:
>> >
>> > Tom,
>> >
>> > I believe that you raise some excellent points. My personal
> opinion
>> > is that with the rounds of ownership changes in the past years, BB
> has
>> > lost whatever semblance of lifestyle marketing that they had in the
>> > past. Corporate cost cutting has been the main focus of the new
>> > ownership groups. Additionally, the common ownership of Prevost
> and
>> > Bluebird probably generated some indirect pressure from that parent
>> > company over having two high end products addressing the same
>> > relatively small market space (in potential number of units, not
>> > dollar volume).
>> >
>> > As a result, for the past few years they have had little to no
>> > direction in lifestyle marketing, product and market segmentation,
> or
>> > overall corporate direction with regard to the Wanderlodge
> division.
>> > Cutting staff, cutting advertising in the FMCA magazine to zero
> for a
>> > while (when they used to command the marketing coveted inside front
>> > cover each month), and selling the marketing symbol of the donut
> wagon
>> > (stated reason too expensive) that used to hit many of the RV
>> > rally/shows (and always got additional free press exposure in rally
>> > coverage), are all symbolic of the loss of direction/dedication to
> the
>> > market.
>> >
>> > In the past eight years that I have owned a Bird, they have never
> had
>> > a strong and dedicated nationwide dealer network. Holland,
> Bleakley
>> > and Parliament are the exceptions to that and the three shining
> stars
>> > of their dealer network, carrying real inventory, but very
> regionally
>> > spaced. The other "dealers" are mostly what you see at Shorewood,
>> > IMO. Even when Buddy Gregg was a dealer, I never saw more than 4-
> 5 BB
>> > in total on his Dallas lot (new and used). Since Buddy quit, we
> have
>> > had three "dealers" in Texas come and go. The first two after
> Buddy
>> > never even had any inventory as far as I know, and the
> newest "dealer"
>> > is historically a consignment lot and has one new LXi listed on its
>> > website (unknown if it actually exists on-site or is on order) and
> one
>> > 1990 on consignment. I stopped at a then-listed "dealer" near
> Albany,
>> > NY (Alpine?) on a trip a few years back in time and they had no BB
>> > inventory, and no sales person that knew anything about them.
>> >
>> > The less than stellar dealer network was not important a few years
>> > back when BB actually had some marketing effort, was the brand to
> be
>> > aspired to, was selling everything they made and there was less
>> > competition in their market space. In the last few years while
> they
>> > have been floundering, the market for higher end coaches has grown
>> > tremendously due to baby boomers, and numerous other players have
>> > entered the market space. We have to hope that BB regains some
> sense
>> > of marketing and starts developing a real market segmentation and
>> > product plan. In the meantime we have these wonderful coaches they
>> > have produced that will outlive most of us on this forum. These
>> > forums can also serve to fill the gap in the lifestyle marketing by
>> > creating camaraderie, a knowledge and support base, and on-going
>> > demand for the products. All of this is helpful to the company as
>> > the management team tries to re-invigorate the brand. Maybe
> someone
>> > there will realize this someday.
>> >
>> > Mike Bulriss
>> > 83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale
>> > 91 PT40 "Texas Minivan"
>> > San Antonio, TX
>> >
>> > P.S. I would also be suspicious of a '91 PT 40 traded in on an
>> > Allegro Bus! But in the meantime, if someone offered me $139K
> for my
>> > '91, it would be gone.....
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Tom"
> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > One of the selling points of MH ownership is the
> lifestyle...kind of
>>> > > like when Harley sells motorcycles. The "brand" rallies are an
>>> > > important part of that and if BB is to remain a quality
> brand...the
>>> > > rally must be an anticipated event and well attended.
>>> > >
>>> > > You read frequently about the "brand" rallies for Country Coach,
>>> > > American Coach, Newell, Foretravel, Newmar, Tiffin, Winnebago
> and
>>> > > others. Many owners pride themselves on not missing any annual
>>> > > rallies. If the BB loyalists sit on the sidelines (or accross
> the
>>> > > street) it is likely that the rally will atrophy and die. I
> don't
>>> > > think that is good for any Blue Bird owner or enthusiast!
>>> > >
>>> > > I believe I read earlier that BB understands that the changes to
> RIV
>>> > > may have been too much...too soon? If this is true I would
> think it
>>> > > would make sense to be supportive in helping define an RIV that
> would
>>> > > again be exciting and well attended. If, on the other hand, BB
> is non-
>>> > > reflective and non-supportive regarding the rally format and
>>> > > costs...well...that probably tells you where they sit relative
> to the
>>> > > BB "brand" future plans.
>>> > >
>>> > > Just the musings from a wanbee...not meant to offend...Thank
> You...Tom
>>> > > Rootness in Northern Minnesota
>>> > >
>>> > > P.S. Just visited the Minnesota BB dealer in Anoka...shows
> another BB
>>> > > issue. They have two BBs...both '04 (?) demo models used by the
> two
>>> > > owners. I don't think they sold a BB in the last 18
> months...not
>>> > > really trying. Maybe they have the brand so the owners can have
> demos.
>>> > >
>>> > > Primarily a Tiffin and other brand dealer. BTW they did just
> take in
>>> > > a '91 PT 40 on trade on an Allegro Bus. The '91 is quite messy
> and my
>>> > > guess is they don't know how to sell it and will end up
> wholesaleing in
>>> > > 90 days. Asking $139K which IMHO is quite high for a bit
> dicey '91.
>>> > > If someone is interested you might want to call them. Shorewood
> RV in
>>> > > Anoka, MN. TMR
>>> > >
>> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> &w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=IF4u_5wI
> 8Pmy34cC1O9CxA>
> Recreational vehicle dealer
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w1=Recreation
> al+vehicles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicle+d
> ealer&w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=z6_
> XahaeYHfELr6o72IW1A> Used recreational vehicles
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Used+recreational+vehicles&w1=Recreationa
> l+vehicles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicle+de
> aler&w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=UGEY
> 5km4L-kXbDI4ZSadEw> Automotive radiators
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Automotive+radiators&w1=Recreational+vehi
> cles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w
> 5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=ePNVMmISsC
> WgTnMq_4GlXA>
>
>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> * Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum> " on the web.
> *
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> * WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> *
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[erniecarpet@...]

That sounds like a plan. and also- get the engineers to spend at least a
night in the coaches they design. Kinda rocket science, isn't it? Ernie


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Henry Jay Hannigan]

---JAMES: RE: Engineering problems on m-380's
Probably the best people to answer ur questions would be the BB
people at Ft. Valley..ask them about the 1. BRAKES..2.
SKIN..3.Wieght ratios..to name a few.........the defense for liable
and slander is...TRUTH..
Regards,
Hank Hannigan
90SP36







In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, James ONeil wrote:
>
> Hank,
> I am new to the rv¹s, although have done considerable research,
etc. I was
> considering the m380, because I liked the size and it was a BB.
That being
> said when looking at I had the feeling that it was a monaco with a
higher
> price tag.
> Could you enlighten me on its engineering failures.
> Thanks,
> Jim O¹Neil
>
>
> On 11/2/05 12:38 PM, "Henry Jay Hannigan" wrote:
>
> > --- My 2 cents worth about Bluebird........I love my 90SP36..no
tag
> > etc. BB got it right when they made the M380..almost same as my
> > 90SP36 (check the specs) I think they would have sold a TON of
the
> > M380"s IF the ENGINEERS would have got it right!!!
> > Regretably the ENGINEERS for whatever reason..bad grades in
> > engineering school, cost cutting measures, WHATEVER, DID NOT
get it
> > right.
> > The M380 could have revolutionized BB, instead, the M380 hurt BB.
> > I still love my 90SP36 and have encouraged the BB President ceo
etc.
> > to make a 2007 version of my beautiful 90SP36.....make it 38 feet
> > long, NO tag, MID door...AND get some excellent ENGINEERS to
design
> > it and sell it for $595,000...TO me, this action would put BB
back
> > on top!!
> > That's my 2 cents worth......What do others think??
> > sincerely,
> > Hank Hannigan
> > Beautiful 90SP36
> > Still in Hawaii(two more weeks)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss" <mbulriss@y...>
> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Tom,
> >> >
> >> > I believe that you raise some excellent points. My personal
> > opinion
> >> > is that with the rounds of ownership changes in the past
years, BB
> > has
> >> > lost whatever semblance of lifestyle marketing that they had
in the
> >> > past. Corporate cost cutting has been the main focus of the
new
> >> > ownership groups. Additionally, the common ownership of
Prevost
> > and
> >> > Bluebird probably generated some indirect pressure from that
parent
> >> > company over having two high end products addressing the same
> >> > relatively small market space (in potential number of units,
not
> >> > dollar volume).
> >> >
> >> > As a result, for the past few years they have had little to no
> >> > direction in lifestyle marketing, product and market
segmentation,
> > or
> >> > overall corporate direction with regard to the Wanderlodge
> > division.
> >> > Cutting staff, cutting advertising in the FMCA magazine to
zero
> > for a
> >> > while (when they used to command the marketing coveted inside
front
> >> > cover each month), and selling the marketing symbol of the
donut
> > wagon
> >> > (stated reason too expensive) that used to hit many of the RV
> >> > rally/shows (and always got additional free press exposure in
rally
> >> > coverage), are all symbolic of the loss of
direction/dedication to
> > the
> >> > market.
> >> >
> >> > In the past eight years that I have owned a Bird, they have
never
> > had
> >> > a strong and dedicated nationwide dealer network. Holland,
> > Bleakley
> >> > and Parliament are the exceptions to that and the three
shining
> > stars
> >> > of their dealer network, carrying real inventory, but very
> > regionally
> >> > spaced. The other "dealers" are mostly what you see at
Shorewood,
> >> > IMO. Even when Buddy Gregg was a dealer, I never saw more
than 4-
> > 5 BB
> >> > in total on his Dallas lot (new and used). Since Buddy quit,
we
> > have
> >> > had three "dealers" in Texas come and go. The first two after
> > Buddy
> >> > never even had any inventory as far as I know, and the
> > newest "dealer"
> >> > is historically a consignment lot and has one new LXi listed
on its
> >> > website (unknown if it actually exists on-site or is on
order) and
> > one
> >> > 1990 on consignment. I stopped at a then-listed "dealer" near
> > Albany,
> >> > NY (Alpine?) on a trip a few years back in time and they had
no BB
> >> > inventory, and no sales person that knew anything about them.
> >> >
> >> > The less than stellar dealer network was not important a few
years
> >> > back when BB actually had some marketing effort, was the
brand to
> > be
> >> > aspired to, was selling everything they made and there was
less
> >> > competition in their market space. In the last few years
while
> > they
> >> > have been floundering, the market for higher end coaches has
grown
> >> > tremendously due to baby boomers, and numerous other players
have
> >> > entered the market space. We have to hope that BB regains
some
> > sense
> >> > of marketing and starts developing a real market segmentation
and
> >> > product plan. In the meantime we have these wonderful
coaches they
> >> > have produced that will outlive most of us on this forum.
These
> >> > forums can also serve to fill the gap in the lifestyle
marketing by
> >> > creating camaraderie, a knowledge and support base, and on-
going
> >> > demand for the products. All of this is helpful to the
company as
> >> > the management team tries to re-invigorate the brand. Maybe
> > someone
> >> > there will realize this someday.
> >> >
> >> > Mike Bulriss
> >> > 83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale
> >> > 91 PT40 "Texas Minivan"
> >> > San Antonio, TX
> >> >
> >> > P.S. I would also be suspicious of a '91 PT 40 traded in on
an
> >> > Allegro Bus! But in the meantime, if someone offered me
$139K
> > for my
> >> > '91, it would be gone.....
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Tom"

> > wrote:
> >>> > >
> >>> > > One of the selling points of MH ownership is the
> > lifestyle...kind of
> >>> > > like when Harley sells motorcycles. The "brand" rallies
are an
> >>> > > important part of that and if BB is to remain a quality
> > brand...the
> >>> > > rally must be an anticipated event and well attended.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > You read frequently about the "brand" rallies for Country
Coach,
> >>> > > American Coach, Newell, Foretravel, Newmar, Tiffin,
Winnebago
> > and
> >>> > > others. Many owners pride themselves on not missing any
annual
> >>> > > rallies. If the BB loyalists sit on the sidelines (or
accross
> > the
> >>> > > street) it is likely that the rally will atrophy and die.
I
> > don't
> >>> > > think that is good for any Blue Bird owner or enthusiast!
> >>> > >
> >>> > > I believe I read earlier that BB understands that the
changes to
> > RIV
> >>> > > may have been too much...too soon? If this is true I would
> > think it
> >>> > > would make sense to be supportive in helping define an RIV
that
> > would
> >>> > > again be exciting and well attended. If, on the other
hand, BB
> > is non-
> >>> > > reflective and non-supportive regarding the rally format
and
> >>> > > costs...well...that probably tells you where they sit
relative
> > to the
> >>> > > BB "brand" future plans.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Just the musings from a wanbee...not meant to
offend...Thank
> > You...Tom
> >>> > > Rootness in Northern Minnesota
> >>> > >
> >>> > > P.S. Just visited the Minnesota BB dealer in Anoka...shows
> > another BB
> >>> > > issue. They have two BBs...both '04 (?) demo models used
by the
> > two
> >>> > > owners. I don't think they sold a BB in the last 18
> > months...not
> >>> > > really trying. Maybe they have the brand so the owners can
have
> > demos.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Primarily a Tiffin and other brand dealer. BTW they did
just
> > take in
> >>> > > a '91 PT 40 on trade on an Allegro Bus. The '91 is quite
messy
> > and my
> >>> > > guess is they don't know how to sell it and will end up
> > wholesaleing in
> >>> > > 90 days. Asking $139K which IMHO is quite high for a bit
> > dicey '91.
> >>> > > If someone is interested you might want to call them.
Shorewood
> > RV in
> >>> > > Anoka, MN. TMR
> >>> > >
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> >
> > Recreational vehicles
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicles&w1=Recreational+veh
> >
icles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicl
e+dealer&
> >
w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=
DAUkCKkU7
> > Dzhn_ObWmSYTw> Wanderlodge
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Wanderlodge&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=W
> >
anderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w
5=Used+re
> > creational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=Z-
8HJdysB3QLPj9U0Jv
> > qYQ> Automotive maintenance
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Automotive+maintenance&w1=Recreational+ve
> >
hicles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehic
le+dealer
> >
&w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig
=IF4u_5wI
> > 8Pmy34cC1O9CxA>
> > Recreational vehicle dealer
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w1=Recreation
> >
al+vehicles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+
vehicle+d
> >
ealer&w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163
&.sig=z6_
> > XahaeYHfELr6o72IW1A> Used recreational vehicles
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Used+recreational+vehicles&w1=Recreationa
> >
l+vehicles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+v
ehicle+de
> >
aler&w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&
.sig=UGEY
> > 5km4L-kXbDI4ZSadEw> Automotive radiators
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Automotive+radiators&w1=Recreational+vehi
> >
cles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicle
+dealer&w
> >
5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=e
PNVMmISsC
> > WgTnMq_4GlXA>
> >
> >
> >
> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > * Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum> " on the web.
> > *
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > * WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > subject=Unsubscribe>
> > *
> > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service
> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[John Suter]

How 'bout our just saying, "there are numerous
reasons" you don't find any more M-380's being
manufactured, and the M-450's vanished after they were
announced with great 'fanfare and hoopla,' and
suddenly LXi's returned to the production line (Even
if at much higher list prices).

John




--- Henry Jay Hannigan wrote:

> ---JAMES: RE: Engineering problems on m-380's
> Probably the best people to answer ur questions
> would be the BB
> people at Ft. Valley..ask them about the 1.
> BRAKES..2.
> SKIN..3.Wieght ratios..to name a few.........the
> defense for liable
> and slander is...TRUTH..
> Regards,
> Hank Hannigan
> 90SP36
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, James ONeil
> wrote:
> >
> > Hank,
> > I am new to the rv¹s, although have done
> considerable research,
> etc. I was
> > considering the m380, because I liked the size and
> it was a BB.
> That being
> > said when looking at I had the feeling that it was
> a monaco with a
> higher
> > price tag.
> > Could you enlighten me on its engineering
> failures.
> > Thanks,
> > Jim O¹Neil
> >
> >
> > On 11/2/05 12:38 PM, "Henry Jay Hannigan"
> wrote:
> >
> > > --- My 2 cents worth about Bluebird........I
> love my 90SP36..no
> tag
> > > etc. BB got it right when they made the
> M380..almost same as my
> > > 90SP36 (check the specs) I think they would
> have sold a TON of
> the
> > > M380"s IF the ENGINEERS would have got it
> right!!!
> > > Regretably the ENGINEERS for whatever
> reason..bad grades in
> > > engineering school, cost cutting measures,
> WHATEVER, DID NOT
> get it
> > > right.
> > > The M380 could have revolutionized BB, instead,
> the M380 hurt BB.
> > > I still love my 90SP36 and have encouraged the
> BB President ceo
> etc.
> > > to make a 2007 version of my beautiful
> 90SP36.....make it 38 feet
> > > long, NO tag, MID door...AND get some excellent
> ENGINEERS to
> design
> > > it and sell it for $595,000...TO me, this
> action would put BB
> back
> > > on top!!
> > > That's my 2 cents worth......What do others
> think??
> > > sincerely,
> > > Hank Hannigan
> > > Beautiful 90SP36
> > > Still in Hawaii(two more weeks)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss"
> <mbulriss@y...>
> > > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > Tom,
> > >> >
> > >> > I believe that you raise some excellent
> points. My personal
> > > opinion
> > >> > is that with the rounds of ownership changes
> in the past
> years, BB
> > > has
> > >> > lost whatever semblance of lifestyle
> marketing that they had
> in the
> > >> > past. Corporate cost cutting has been the
> main focus of the
> new
> > >> > ownership groups. Additionally, the common
> ownership of
> Prevost
> > > and
> > >> > Bluebird probably generated some indirect
> pressure from that
> parent
> > >> > company over having two high end products
> addressing the same
> > >> > relatively small market space (in potential
> number of units,
> not
> > >> > dollar volume).
> > >> >
> > >> > As a result, for the past few years they have
> had little to no
> > >> > direction in lifestyle marketing, product and
> market
> segmentation,
> > > or
> > >> > overall corporate direction with regard to
> the Wanderlodge
> > > division.
> > >> > Cutting staff, cutting advertising in the
> FMCA magazine to
> zero
> > > for a
> > >> > while (when they used to command the
> marketing coveted inside
> front
> > >> > cover each month), and selling the marketing
> symbol of the
> donut
> > > wagon
> > >> > (stated reason too expensive) that used to
> hit many of the RV
> > >> > rally/shows (and always got additional free
> press exposure in
> rally
> > >> > coverage), are all symbolic of the loss of
> direction/dedication to
> > > the
> > >> > market.
> > >> >
> > >> > In the past eight years that I have owned a
> Bird, they have
> never
> > > had
> > >> > a strong and dedicated nationwide dealer
> network. Holland,
> > > Bleakley
> > >> > and Parliament are the exceptions to that and
> the three
> shining
> > > stars
> > >> > of their dealer network, carrying real
> inventory, but very
> > > regionally
> > >> > spaced. The other "dealers" are mostly what
> you see at
> Shorewood,
> > >> > IMO. Even when Buddy Gregg was a dealer, I
> never saw more
> than 4-
> > > 5 BB
> > >> > in total on his Dallas lot (new and used).
> Since Buddy quit,
> we
> > > have
> > >> > had three "dealers" in Texas come and go.
> The first two after
> > > Buddy
> > >> > never even had any inventory as far as I
> know, and the
> > > newest "dealer"
> > >> > is historically a consignment lot and has one
> new LXi listed
> on its
> > >> > website (unknown if it actually exists
> on-site or is on
> order) and
> > > one
> > >> > 1990 on consignment. I stopped at a
> then-listed "dealer" near
> > > Albany,
> > >> > NY (Alpine?) on a trip a few years back in
> time and they had
> no BB
> > >> > inventory, and no sales person that knew
> anything about them.
> > >> >
> > >> > The less than stellar dealer network was not
> important a few
> years
> > >> > back when BB actually had some marketing
> effort, was the
> brand to
> > > be
> > >> > aspired to, was selling everything they made
> and there was
> less
> > >> > competition in their market space. In the
> last few years
> while
> > > they
> > >> > have been floundering, the market for higher
> end coaches has
> grown
> > >> > tremendously due to baby boomers, and
> numerous other players
> have
> > >> > entered the market space. We have to hope
> that BB regains
> some
> > > sense
> > >> > of marketing and starts developing a real
> market segmentation
> and
> > >> > product plan. In the meantime we have these
> wonderful
> coaches they
> > >> > have produced that will outlive most of us on
> this forum.
> These
> > >> > forums can also serve to fill the gap in the
> lifestyle
> marketing by
> > >> > creating camaraderie, a knowledge and support
> base, and on-
> going
> > >> > demand for the products. All of this is
> helpful to the
> company as
> > >> > the management team tries to re-invigorate
> the brand. Maybe
> > > someone
> > >> > there will realize this someday.
> > >> >
> > >> > Mike Bulriss
> > >> > 83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale
> > >> > 91 PT40 "Texas Minivan"
> > >> > San Antonio, TX
> > >> >
> > >> > P.S. I would also be suspicious of a '91 PT
> 40 traded in on
> an
> > >> > Allegro Bus! But in the meantime, if
> someone offered me
> $139K
> > > for my
> > >> > '91, it would be gone.....
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com,
> "Tom"
>
> > > wrote:
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > One of the selling points of MH ownership
> is the
> > > lifestyle...kind of
> > >>> > > like when Harley sells motorcycles. The
> "brand" rallies
> are an
> > >>> > > important part of that and if BB is to
> remain a quality
> > > brand...the
> > >>> > > rally must be an anticipated event and
> well attended.
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > You read frequently about the "brand"
> rallies for Country
> Coach,
> > >>> > > American Coach, Newell, Foretravel,
> Newmar, Tiffin,
> Winnebago
> > > and
> > >>> > > others. Many owners pride themselves on
> not missing any
> annual
> > >>> > > rallies. If the BB loyalists sit on the
> sidelines (or
> accross
> > > the
> > >>> > > street) it is likely that the rally will
> atrophy and die.
> I
> > > don't
> > >>> > > think that is good for any Blue Bird owner
> or enthusiast!
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > I believe I read earlier that BB
> understands that the
> changes to
> > > RIV
> > >>> > > may have been too much...too soon? If
> this is true I would
> > > think it
> > >>> > > would make sense to be supportive in
> helping define an RIV
> that
> > > would
> > >>> > > again be exciting and well attended. If,
> on the other
> hand, BB
> > > is non-
> > >>> > > reflective and non-supportive regarding
> the rally format
> and
> > >>> > > costs...well...that probably tells you
> where they sit
> relative
> > > to the
> > >>> > > BB "brand" future plans.
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > Just the musings from a wanbee...not meant
> to
> offend...Thank
> > > You...Tom
> > >>> > > Rootness in Northern Minnesota
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > P.S. Just visited the Minnesota BB dealer
> in Anoka...shows
> > > another BB
> > >>> > > issue. They have two BBs...both '04 (?)
> demo models used
> by the
> > > two
> > >>> > > owners. I don't think they sold a BB in
> the last 18
> > > months...not
> > >>> > > really trying. Maybe they have the brand
> so the owners can
> have
> > > demos.
> > >>> > >
> > >>> > > Primarily a Tiffin and other brand dealer.
> BTW they did
> just
> > > take in
> > >>> > > a '91 PT 40 on trade on an Allegro Bus.
> The '91 is quite
> messy
> > > and my
> > >>> > > guess is they don't know how to sell it
> and will end up
> > > wholesaleing in
> > >>> > > 90 days. Asking $139K which IMHO is quite
> high for a bit
> > > dicey '91.
> > >>> > > If someone is interested you might want to
> call them.
> Shorewood
> > > RV in
> > >>> > > Anoka, MN. TMR
> > >>> > >
> > >> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > SPONSORED LINKS
> > >
> > > Recreational vehicles
> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicles&w1=Recreational+veh
> > >
>
icles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicl
> e+dealer&
> > >
>
w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=
> DAUkCKkU7
> > > Dzhn_ObWmSYTw> Wanderlodge
> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Wanderlodge&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=W
> > >
>
anderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w
> 5=Used+re
> > >
>
creational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=Z-
> 8HJdysB3QLPj9U0Jv
> > > qYQ> Automotive maintenance
> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Automotive+maintenance&w1=Recreational+ve
> > >
>
hicles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehic
> le+dealer
> > >
>
&w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig
> =IF4u_5wI
> > > 8Pmy34cC1O9CxA>
> > > Recreational vehicle dealer
> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w1=Recreation
> > >
>
al+vehicles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+
> vehicle+d
> > >
>
ealer&w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163
> &.sig=z6_
> > > XahaeYHfELr6o72IW1A> Used recreational
> vehicles
> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Used+recreational+vehicles&w1=Recreationa
> > >
>
l+vehicles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+v
> ehicle+de
> > >
>
aler&w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&
> .sig=UGEY
> > > 5km4L-kXbDI4ZSadEw> Automotive radiators
> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> t=ms&k=Automotive+radiators&w1=Recreational+vehi
> > >
>
cles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicle
> +dealer&w
> > >
>
5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=e
> PNVMmISsC
> > > WgTnMq_4GlXA>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > > * Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum
> > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>
> " on the web.
> > > *
> > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
> to:
> > > * WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
>
> subject=Unsubscribe>
> > > *
> > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of
> Service
> > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>





__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Henry Jay Hannigan]

--- I did not know the 450's were gone.........sure hope the CEO
takes my advice and builds a nice 38ft mid door with no tag similar
to my 90SP.....and this time they hire an M.I.T. engineer to work
out the details..eg brakes, skin, loads etc.the m380 was the right
idea...BUT...............Does BLUBIRD read this????
.I'm not going to wait forever
regards,
Hank Hannigan & Naty
90SP36






In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, John Suter
wrote:
>
> How 'bout our just saying, "there are numerous
> reasons" you don't find any more M-380's being
> manufactured, and the M-450's vanished after they were
> announced with great 'fanfare and hoopla,' and
> suddenly LXi's returned to the production line (Even
> if at much higher list prices).
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> --- Henry Jay Hannigan wrote:
>
> > ---JAMES: RE: Engineering problems on m-380's
> > Probably the best people to answer ur questions
> > would be the BB
> > people at Ft. Valley..ask them about the 1.
> > BRAKES..2.
> > SKIN..3.Wieght ratios..to name a few.........the
> > defense for liable
> > and slander is...TRUTH..
> > Regards,
> > Hank Hannigan
> > 90SP36
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, James ONeil
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hank,
> > > I am new to the rv¹s, although have done
> > considerable research,
> > etc. I was
> > > considering the m380, because I liked the size and
> > it was a BB.
> > That being
> > > said when looking at I had the feeling that it was
> > a monaco with a
> > higher
> > > price tag.
> > > Could you enlighten me on its engineering
> > failures.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Jim O¹Neil
> > >
> > >
> > > On 11/2/05 12:38 PM, "Henry Jay Hannigan"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > --- My 2 cents worth about Bluebird........I
> > love my 90SP36..no
> > tag
> > > > etc. BB got it right when they made the
> > M380..almost same as my
> > > > 90SP36 (check the specs) I think they would
> > have sold a TON of
> > the
> > > > M380"s IF the ENGINEERS would have got it
> > right!!!
> > > > Regretably the ENGINEERS for whatever
> > reason..bad grades in
> > > > engineering school, cost cutting measures,
> > WHATEVER, DID NOT
> > get it
> > > > right.
> > > > The M380 could have revolutionized BB, instead,
> > the M380 hurt BB.
> > > > I still love my 90SP36 and have encouraged the
> > BB President ceo
> > etc.
> > > > to make a 2007 version of my beautiful
> > 90SP36.....make it 38 feet
> > > > long, NO tag, MID door...AND get some excellent
> > ENGINEERS to
> > design
> > > > it and sell it for $595,000...TO me, this
> > action would put BB
> > back
> > > > on top!!
> > > > That's my 2 cents worth......What do others
> > think??
> > > > sincerely,
> > > > Hank Hannigan
> > > > Beautiful 90SP36
> > > > Still in Hawaii(two more weeks)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss"
> > <mbulriss@y...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Tom,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I believe that you raise some excellent
> > points. My personal
> > > > opinion
> > > >> > is that with the rounds of ownership changes
> > in the past
> > years, BB
> > > > has
> > > >> > lost whatever semblance of lifestyle
> > marketing that they had
> > in the
> > > >> > past. Corporate cost cutting has been the
> > main focus of the
> > new
> > > >> > ownership groups. Additionally, the common
> > ownership of
> > Prevost
> > > > and
> > > >> > Bluebird probably generated some indirect
> > pressure from that
> > parent
> > > >> > company over having two high end products
> > addressing the same
> > > >> > relatively small market space (in potential
> > number of units,
> > not
> > > >> > dollar volume).
> > > >> >
> > > >> > As a result, for the past few years they have
> > had little to no
> > > >> > direction in lifestyle marketing, product and
> > market
> > segmentation,
> > > > or
> > > >> > overall corporate direction with regard to
> > the Wanderlodge
> > > > division.
> > > >> > Cutting staff, cutting advertising in the
> > FMCA magazine to
> > zero
> > > > for a
> > > >> > while (when they used to command the
> > marketing coveted inside
> > front
> > > >> > cover each month), and selling the marketing
> > symbol of the
> > donut
> > > > wagon
> > > >> > (stated reason too expensive) that used to
> > hit many of the RV
> > > >> > rally/shows (and always got additional free
> > press exposure in
> > rally
> > > >> > coverage), are all symbolic of the loss of
> > direction/dedication to
> > > > the
> > > >> > market.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > In the past eight years that I have owned a
> > Bird, they have
> > never
> > > > had
> > > >> > a strong and dedicated nationwide dealer
> > network. Holland,
> > > > Bleakley
> > > >> > and Parliament are the exceptions to that and
> > the three
> > shining
> > > > stars
> > > >> > of their dealer network, carrying real
> > inventory, but very
> > > > regionally
> > > >> > spaced. The other "dealers" are mostly what
> > you see at
> > Shorewood,
> > > >> > IMO. Even when Buddy Gregg was a dealer, I
> > never saw more
> > than 4-
> > > > 5 BB
> > > >> > in total on his Dallas lot (new and used).
> > Since Buddy quit,
> > we
> > > > have
> > > >> > had three "dealers" in Texas come and go.
> > The first two after
> > > > Buddy
> > > >> > never even had any inventory as far as I
> > know, and the
> > > > newest "dealer"
> > > >> > is historically a consignment lot and has one
> > new LXi listed
> > on its
> > > >> > website (unknown if it actually exists
> > on-site or is on
> > order) and
> > > > one
> > > >> > 1990 on consignment. I stopped at a
> > then-listed "dealer" near
> > > > Albany,
> > > >> > NY (Alpine?) on a trip a few years back in
> > time and they had
> > no BB
> > > >> > inventory, and no sales person that knew
> > anything about them.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > The less than stellar dealer network was not
> > important a few
> > years
> > > >> > back when BB actually had some marketing
> > effort, was the
> > brand to
> > > > be
> > > >> > aspired to, was selling everything they made
> > and there was
> > less
> > > >> > competition in their market space. In the
> > last few years
> > while
> > > > they
> > > >> > have been floundering, the market for higher
> > end coaches has
> > grown
> > > >> > tremendously due to baby boomers, and
> > numerous other players
> > have
> > > >> > entered the market space. We have to hope
> > that BB regains
> > some
> > > > sense
> > > >> > of marketing and starts developing a real
> > market segmentation
> > and
> > > >> > product plan. In the meantime we have these
> > wonderful
> > coaches they
> > > >> > have produced that will outlive most of us on
> > this forum.
> > These
> > > >> > forums can also serve to fill the gap in the
> > lifestyle
> > marketing by
> > > >> > creating camaraderie, a knowledge and support
> > base, and on-
> > going
> > > >> > demand for the products. All of this is
> > helpful to the
> > company as
> > > >> > the management team tries to re-invigorate
> > the brand. Maybe
> > > > someone
> > > >> > there will realize this someday.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Mike Bulriss
> > > >> > 83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale
> > > >> > 91 PT40 "Texas Minivan"
> > > >> > San Antonio, TX
> > > >> >
> > > >> > P.S. I would also be suspicious of a '91 PT
> > 40 traded in on
> > an
> > > >> > Allegro Bus! But in the meantime, if
> > someone offered me
> > $139K
> > > > for my
> > > >> > '91, it would be gone.....
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com,
> > "Tom"
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > One of the selling points of MH ownership
> > is the
> > > > lifestyle...kind of
> > > >>> > > like when Harley sells motorcycles. The
> > "brand" rallies
> > are an
> > > >>> > > important part of that and if BB is to
> > remain a quality
> > > > brand...the
> > > >>> > > rally must be an anticipated event and
> > well attended.
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > You read frequently about the "brand"
> > rallies for Country
> > Coach,
> > > >>> > > American Coach, Newell, Foretravel,
> > Newmar, Tiffin,
> > Winnebago
> > > > and
> > > >>> > > others. Many owners pride themselves on
> > not missing any
> > annual
> > > >>> > > rallies. If the BB loyalists sit on the
> > sidelines (or
> > accross
> > > > the
> > > >>> > > street) it is likely that the rally will
> > atrophy and die.
> > I
> > > > don't
> > > >>> > > think that is good for any Blue Bird owner
> > or enthusiast!
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > I believe I read earlier that BB
> > understands that the
> > changes to
> > > > RIV
> > > >>> > > may have been too much...too soon? If
> > this is true I would
> > > > think it
> > > >>> > > would make sense to be supportive in
> > helping define an RIV
> > that
> > > > would
> > > >>> > > again be exciting and well attended. If,
> > on the other
> > hand, BB
> > > > is non-
> > > >>> > > reflective and non-supportive regarding
> > the rally format
> > and
> > > >>> > > costs...well...that probably tells you
> > where they sit
> > relative
> > > > to the
> > > >>> > > BB "brand" future plans.
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > Just the musings from a wanbee...not meant
> > to
> > offend...Thank
> > > > You...Tom
> > > >>> > > Rootness in Northern Minnesota
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > P.S. Just visited the Minnesota BB dealer
> > in Anoka...shows
> > > > another BB
> > > >>> > > issue. They have two BBs...both '04 (?)
> > demo models used
> > by the
> > > > two
> > > >>> > > owners. I don't think they sold a BB in
> > the last 18
> > > > months...not
> > > >>> > > really trying. Maybe they have the brand
> > so the owners can
> > have
> > > > demos.
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > Primarily a Tiffin and other brand dealer.
> > BTW they did
> > just
> > > > take in
> > > >>> > > a '91 PT 40 on trade on an Allegro Bus.
> > The '91 is quite
> > messy
> > > > and my
> > > >>> > > guess is they don't know how to sell it
> > and will end up
> > > > wholesaleing in
> > > >>> > > 90 days. Asking $139K which IMHO is quite
> > high for a bit
> > > > dicey '91.
> > > >>> > > If someone is interested you might want to
> > call them.
> > Shorewood
> > > > RV in
> > > >>> > > Anoka, MN. TMR
> > > >>> > >
> > > >> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > SPONSORED LINKS
> > > >
> > > > Recreational vehicles
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> > t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicles&w1=Recreational+veh
> > > >
> >
>
icles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicl
> > e+dealer&
> > > >
> >
>
w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=
> > DAUkCKkU7
> > > > Dzhn_ObWmSYTw> Wanderlodge
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> > t=ms&k=Wanderlodge&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=W
> > > >
> >
>
anderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w
> > 5=Used+re
> > > >
> >
> creational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=Z-
> > 8HJdysB3QLPj9U0Jv
> > > > qYQ> Automotive maintenance
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> > t=ms&k=Automotive+maintenance&w1=Recreational+ve
> > > >
> >
>
hicles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehic
> > le+dealer
> > > >
> >
>
&w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig
> > =IF4u_5wI
> > > > 8Pmy34cC1O9CxA>
> > > > Recreational vehicle dealer
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> > t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w1=Recreation
> > > >
> >
>
al+vehicles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+
> > vehicle+d
> > > >
> >
>
ealer&w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163
> > &.sig=z6_
> > > > XahaeYHfELr6o72IW1A> Used recreational
> > vehicles
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> > t=ms&k=Used+recreational+vehicles&w1=Recreationa
> > > >
> >
>
l+vehicles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+v
> > ehicle+de
> > > >
> >
>
aler&w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&
> > .sig=UGEY
> > > > 5km4L-kXbDI4ZSadEw> Automotive radiators
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> > t=ms&k=Automotive+radiators&w1=Recreational+vehi
> > > >
> >
>
cles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicle
> > +dealer&w
> > > >
> >
>
5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=e
> > PNVMmISsC
> > > > WgTnMq_4GlXA>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > >
> > > > * Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>
> > " on the web.
> > > > *
> > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
> > to:
> > > > * WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> >
> > > subject=Unsubscribe>
> > > > *
> > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service
> > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>

[mbulriss]

John,

Guess I haven't been keeping up with the new models. Couple of
questions: Isn't the M-450 vs. 450LXi just a name change? The specs
show the Cat engine and Meritor suspension products that were the
M-450 spec, versus the DD Series 60 engine of the 'old' LXi.

And the BB web site still shows the M380 as a product. Is it truly
gone? I thought they had "re-engineered" it to fix the problems.

Mike Bulriss
83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale
91 PT40 "Texas Minivan"
San Antonio, TX

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, John Suter
wrote:
>
> How 'bout our just saying, "there are numerous
> reasons" you don't find any more M-380's being
> manufactured, and the M-450's vanished after they were
> announced with great 'fanfare and hoopla,' and
> suddenly LXi's returned to the production line (Even
> if at much higher list prices).
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> --- Henry Jay Hannigan wrote:
>
> > ---JAMES: RE: Engineering problems on m-380's
> > Probably the best people to answer ur questions
> > would be the BB
> > people at Ft. Valley..ask them about the 1.
> > BRAKES..2.
> > SKIN..3.Wieght ratios..to name a few.........the
> > defense for liable
> > and slander is...TRUTH..
> > Regards,
> > Hank Hannigan
> > 90SP36
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, James ONeil
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hank,
> > > I am new to the rv¹s, although have done
> > considerable research,
> > etc. I was
> > > considering the m380, because I liked the size and
> > it was a BB.
> > That being
> > > said when looking at I had the feeling that it was
> > a monaco with a
> > higher
> > > price tag.
> > > Could you enlighten me on its engineering
> > failures.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Jim O¹Neil
> > >
> > >
> > > On 11/2/05 12:38 PM, "Henry Jay Hannigan"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > --- My 2 cents worth about Bluebird........I
> > love my 90SP36..no
> > tag
> > > > etc. BB got it right when they made the
> > M380..almost same as my
> > > > 90SP36 (check the specs) I think they would
> > have sold a TON of
> > the
> > > > M380"s IF the ENGINEERS would have got it
> > right!!!
> > > > Regretably the ENGINEERS for whatever
> > reason..bad grades in
> > > > engineering school, cost cutting measures,
> > WHATEVER, DID NOT
> > get it
> > > > right.
> > > > The M380 could have revolutionized BB, instead,
> > the M380 hurt BB.
> > > > I still love my 90SP36 and have encouraged the
> > BB President ceo
> > etc.
> > > > to make a 2007 version of my beautiful
> > 90SP36.....make it 38 feet
> > > > long, NO tag, MID door...AND get some excellent
> > ENGINEERS to
> > design
> > > > it and sell it for $595,000...TO me, this
> > action would put BB
> > back
> > > > on top!!
> > > > That's my 2 cents worth......What do others
> > think??
> > > > sincerely,
> > > > Hank Hannigan
> > > > Beautiful 90SP36
> > > > Still in Hawaii(two more weeks)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss"
> > <mbulriss@y...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Tom,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I believe that you raise some excellent
> > points. My personal
> > > > opinion
> > > >> > is that with the rounds of ownership changes
> > in the past
> > years, BB
> > > > has
> > > >> > lost whatever semblance of lifestyle
> > marketing that they had
> > in the
> > > >> > past. Corporate cost cutting has been the
> > main focus of the
> > new
> > > >> > ownership groups. Additionally, the common
> > ownership of
> > Prevost
> > > > and
> > > >> > Bluebird probably generated some indirect
> > pressure from that
> > parent
> > > >> > company over having two high end products
> > addressing the same
> > > >> > relatively small market space (in potential
> > number of units,
> > not
> > > >> > dollar volume).
> > > >> >
> > > >> > As a result, for the past few years they have
> > had little to no
> > > >> > direction in lifestyle marketing, product and
> > market
> > segmentation,
> > > > or
> > > >> > overall corporate direction with regard to
> > the Wanderlodge
> > > > division.
> > > >> > Cutting staff, cutting advertising in the
> > FMCA magazine to
> > zero
> > > > for a
> > > >> > while (when they used to command the
> > marketing coveted inside
> > front
> > > >> > cover each month), and selling the marketing
> > symbol of the
> > donut
> > > > wagon
> > > >> > (stated reason too expensive) that used to
> > hit many of the RV
> > > >> > rally/shows (and always got additional free
> > press exposure in
> > rally
> > > >> > coverage), are all symbolic of the loss of
> > direction/dedication to
> > > > the
> > > >> > market.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > In the past eight years that I have owned a
> > Bird, they have
> > never
> > > > had
> > > >> > a strong and dedicated nationwide dealer
> > network. Holland,
> > > > Bleakley
> > > >> > and Parliament are the exceptions to that and
> > the three
> > shining
> > > > stars
> > > >> > of their dealer network, carrying real
> > inventory, but very
> > > > regionally
> > > >> > spaced. The other "dealers" are mostly what
> > you see at
> > Shorewood,
> > > >> > IMO. Even when Buddy Gregg was a dealer, I
> > never saw more
> > than 4-
> > > > 5 BB
> > > >> > in total on his Dallas lot (new and used).
> > Since Buddy quit,
> > we
> > > > have
> > > >> > had three "dealers" in Texas come and go.
> > The first two after
> > > > Buddy
> > > >> > never even had any inventory as far as I
> > know, and the
> > > > newest "dealer"
> > > >> > is historically a consignment lot and has one
> > new LXi listed
> > on its
> > > >> > website (unknown if it actually exists
> > on-site or is on
> > order) and
> > > > one
> > > >> > 1990 on consignment. I stopped at a
> > then-listed "dealer" near
> > > > Albany,
> > > >> > NY (Alpine?) on a trip a few years back in
> > time and they had
> > no BB
> > > >> > inventory, and no sales person that knew
> > anything about them.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > The less than stellar dealer network was not
> > important a few
> > years
> > > >> > back when BB actually had some marketing
> > effort, was the
> > brand to
> > > > be
> > > >> > aspired to, was selling everything they made
> > and there was
> > less
> > > >> > competition in their market space. In the
> > last few years
> > while
> > > > they
> > > >> > have been floundering, the market for higher
> > end coaches has
> > grown
> > > >> > tremendously due to baby boomers, and
> > numerous other players
> > have
> > > >> > entered the market space. We have to hope
> > that BB regains
> > some
> > > > sense
> > > >> > of marketing and starts developing a real
> > market segmentation
> > and
> > > >> > product plan. In the meantime we have these
> > wonderful
> > coaches they
> > > >> > have produced that will outlive most of us on
> > this forum.
> > These
> > > >> > forums can also serve to fill the gap in the
> > lifestyle
> > marketing by
> > > >> > creating camaraderie, a knowledge and support
> > base, and on-
> > going
> > > >> > demand for the products. All of this is
> > helpful to the
> > company as
> > > >> > the management team tries to re-invigorate
> > the brand. Maybe
> > > > someone
> > > >> > there will realize this someday.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Mike Bulriss
> > > >> > 83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale
> > > >> > 91 PT40 "Texas Minivan"
> > > >> > San Antonio, TX
> > > >> >
> > > >> > P.S. I would also be suspicious of a '91 PT
> > 40 traded in on
> > an
> > > >> > Allegro Bus! But in the meantime, if
> > someone offered me
> > $139K
> > > > for my
> > > >> > '91, it would be gone.....
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com,
> > "Tom"
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > One of the selling points of MH ownership
> > is the
> > > > lifestyle...kind of
> > > >>> > > like when Harley sells motorcycles. The
> > "brand" rallies
> > are an
> > > >>> > > important part of that and if BB is to
> > remain a quality
> > > > brand...the
> > > >>> > > rally must be an anticipated event and
> > well attended.
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > You read frequently about the "brand"
> > rallies for Country
> > Coach,
> > > >>> > > American Coach, Newell, Foretravel,
> > Newmar, Tiffin,
> > Winnebago
> > > > and
> > > >>> > > others. Many owners pride themselves on
> > not missing any
> > annual
> > > >>> > > rallies. If the BB loyalists sit on the
> > sidelines (or
> > accross
> > > > the
> > > >>> > > street) it is likely that the rally will
> > atrophy and die.
> > I
> > > > don't
> > > >>> > > think that is good for any Blue Bird owner
> > or enthusiast!
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > I believe I read earlier that BB
> > understands that the
> > changes to
> > > > RIV
> > > >>> > > may have been too much...too soon? If
> > this is true I would
> > > > think it
> > > >>> > > would make sense to be supportive in
> > helping define an RIV
> > that
> > > > would
> > > >>> > > again be exciting and well attended. If,
> > on the other
> > hand, BB
> > > > is non-
> > > >>> > > reflective and non-supportive regarding
> > the rally format
> > and
> > > >>> > > costs...well...that probably tells you
> > where they sit
> > relative
> > > > to the
> > > >>> > > BB "brand" future plans.
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > Just the musings from a wanbee...not meant
> > to
> > offend...Thank
> > > > You...Tom
> > > >>> > > Rootness in Northern Minnesota
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > P.S. Just visited the Minnesota BB dealer
> > in Anoka...shows
> > > > another BB
> > > >>> > > issue. They have two BBs...both '04 (?)
> > demo models used
> > by the
> > > > two
> > > >>> > > owners. I don't think they sold a BB in
> > the last 18
> > > > months...not
> > > >>> > > really trying. Maybe they have the brand
> > so the owners can
> > have
> > > > demos.
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > Primarily a Tiffin and other brand dealer.
> > BTW they did
> > just
> > > > take in
> > > >>> > > a '91 PT 40 on trade on an Allegro Bus.
> > The '91 is quite
> > messy
> > > > and my
> > > >>> > > guess is they don't know how to sell it
> > and will end up
> > > > wholesaleing in
> > > >>> > > 90 days. Asking $139K which IMHO is quite
> > high for a bit
> > > > dicey '91.
> > > >>> > > If someone is interested you might want to
> > call them.
> > Shorewood
> > > > RV in
> > > >>> > > Anoka, MN. TMR
> > > >>> > >
> > > >> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > SPONSORED LINKS
> > > >
> > > > Recreational vehicles
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> > t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicles&w1=Recreational+veh
> > > >
> >
> icles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicl
> > e+dealer&
> > > >
> >
> w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=
> > DAUkCKkU7
> > > > Dzhn_ObWmSYTw> Wanderlodge
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> > t=ms&k=Wanderlodge&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=W
> > > >
> >
> anderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w
> > 5=Used+re
> > > >
> >
> creational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=Z-
> > 8HJdysB3QLPj9U0Jv
> > > > qYQ> Automotive maintenance
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> > t=ms&k=Automotive+maintenance&w1=Recreational+ve
> > > >
> >
> hicles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehic
> > le+dealer
> > > >
> >
> &w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig
> > =IF4u_5wI
> > > > 8Pmy34cC1O9CxA>
> > > > Recreational vehicle dealer
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> > t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w1=Recreation
> > > >
> >
> al+vehicles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+
> > vehicle+d
> > > >
> >
> ealer&w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163
> > &.sig=z6_
> > > > XahaeYHfELr6o72IW1A> Used recreational
> > vehicles
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> > t=ms&k=Used+recreational+vehicles&w1=Recreationa
> > > >
> >
> l+vehicles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+v
> > ehicle+de
> > > >
> >
> aler&w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&
> > .sig=UGEY
> > > > 5km4L-kXbDI4ZSadEw> Automotive radiators
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> > t=ms&k=Automotive+radiators&w1=Recreational+vehi
> > > >
> >
> cles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicle
> > +dealer&w
> > > >
> >
> 5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=e
> > PNVMmISsC
> > > > WgTnMq_4GlXA>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > > >
> > > > * Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum
> > > > <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>
> > " on the web.
> > > > *
> > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email
> > to:
> > > > * WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> >
> > > subject=Unsubscribe>
> > > > *
> > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service
> > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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