Please Explain Battery Isolator Operation/Function

[Eric Johnson]

My coach has 4 - 6 volt AGM batteries that serve as starting and accessory DC
supply. I have
a gel battery mounted in the generator compartment that starts the generator. I
have an
"isolator" in the coach battery compartment with leads coming from the coach and
generator
batteries. I use a Xantrex 40 Truecharge, located in the center driver's side
compartment, to
keep the coach batteries charged. On the dash I have a rocker switch that reads
"auxiliary
battery". My understanding of the dash switch is you can use it momentarily to
augment the
coach batteries if they're too low to get the engine started.

I've read a number of references to isolators but am clueless on how they
function and would
appreciate some education on the subject. I'm particularly curious if my Xantrex
charger may
be supplying the generator battery as well as the coach batteries. Xantrex says
mixing battery
types with the same charger is not a good thing.

Eric Johnson
84FC35SB
San Antonio Texas

[Tom Warner]

There are 3 terminals on your isolator. The center goes to your
alternator and charger, one end terminal goes to your chassis battery
and the other end terminal goes to generator battery.

The auxillary switch on the dash connects the chassis batteries and
generator batteries in parallel so that either the low chassis
batteries will be "boosted" by the generator battery or if the
generator battery is low, the chassis battery can "boost" it.

In the configuration you noted the charger is charging both the
chassis and generator batteries. But there really isnt a problem
since each battery is "isolated" from the other.

Is this what you were looking for?

Tom Warner
1982 FC35
Vernon center,NY


At 07:20 PM 11/6/2005, you wrote:
>My coach has 4 - 6 volt AGM batteries that serve as starting and
>accessory DC supply. I have
>a gel battery mounted in the generator compartment that starts the
>generator. I have an
>"isolator" in the coach battery compartment with leads coming from
>the coach and generator
>batteries. I use a Xantrex 40 Truecharge, located in the center
>driver's side compartment, to
>keep the coach batteries charged. On the dash I have a rocker switch
>that reads "auxiliary
>battery". My understanding of the dash switch is you can use it
>momentarily to augment the
>coach batteries if they're too low to get the engine started.
>
>I've read a number of references to isolators but am clueless on how
>they function and would
>appreciate some education on the subject. I'm particularly curious
>if my Xantrex charger may
>be supplying the generator battery as well as the coach batteries.
>Xantrex says mixing battery
>types with the same charger is not a good thing.
>
>Eric Johnson
>84FC35SB
>San Antonio Texas
>
>
>
>
>
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[Howard O. Truitt]

Tom,

When you mash the Auxillary Switch do you have to sit and hold it down or does
it stay open automatically and do you have to switch it off.

Howard O. Truitt
Camilla, Ga.
86 8V92 PT40
----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Warner
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 7:27 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Please Explain Battery Isolator
Operation/Function


There are 3 terminals on your isolator. The center goes to your
alternator and charger, one end terminal goes to your chassis battery
and the other end terminal goes to generator battery.

The auxillary switch on the dash connects the chassis batteries and
generator batteries in parallel so that either the low chassis
batteries will be "boosted" by the generator battery or if the
generator battery is low, the chassis battery can "boost" it.

In the configuration you noted the charger is charging both the
chassis and generator batteries. But there really isnt a problem
since each battery is "isolated" from the other.

Is this what you were looking for?

Tom Warner
1982 FC35
Vernon center,NY


At 07:20 PM 11/6/2005, you wrote:
>My coach has 4 - 6 volt AGM batteries that serve as starting and
>accessory DC supply. I have
>a gel battery mounted in the generator compartment that starts the
>generator. I have an
>"isolator" in the coach battery compartment with leads coming from
>the coach and generator
>batteries. I use a Xantrex 40 Truecharge, located in the center
>driver's side compartment, to
>keep the coach batteries charged. On the dash I have a rocker switch
>that reads "auxiliary
>battery". My understanding of the dash switch is you can use it
>momentarily to augment the
>coach batteries if they're too low to get the engine started.
>
>I've read a number of references to isolators but am clueless on how
>they function and would
>appreciate some education on the subject. I'm particularly curious
>if my Xantrex charger may
>be supplying the generator battery as well as the coach batteries.
>Xantrex says mixing battery
>types with the same charger is not a good thing.
>
>Eric Johnson
>84FC35SB
>San Antonio Texas
>
>
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Tom Warner]

Good question Howard. On the forward control models the aux switch is
on the dash and you have to hold it down to activate it. As long as
you hold it down you have the two battery banks tied together. On
the PTs I am not sure.

Tom Warner
1982 FC35
Vernon Center,NY

At 09:26 PM 11/6/2005, you wrote:
>Tom,
>
>When you mash the Auxillary Switch do you have to sit and hold it
>down or does it stay open automatically and do you have to switch it off.
>
>Howard O. Truitt
>Camilla, Ga.
>86 8V92 PT40
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tom Warner
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 7:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Please Explain Battery Isolator
> Operation/Function
>
>
> There are 3 terminals on your isolator. The center goes to your
> alternator and charger, one end terminal goes to your chassis battery
> and the other end terminal goes to generator battery.
>
> The auxillary switch on the dash connects the chassis batteries and
> generator batteries in parallel so that either the low chassis
> batteries will be "boosted" by the generator battery or if the
> generator battery is low, the chassis battery can "boost" it.
>
> In the configuration you noted the charger is charging both the
> chassis and generator batteries. But there really isnt a problem
> since each battery is "isolated" from the other.
>
> Is this what you were looking for?
>
> Tom Warner
> 1982 FC35
> Vernon center,NY
>
>
> At 07:20 PM 11/6/2005, you wrote:
> >My coach has 4 - 6 volt AGM batteries that serve as starting and
> >accessory DC supply. I have
> >a gel battery mounted in the generator compartment that starts the
> >generator. I have an
> >"isolator" in the coach battery compartment with leads coming from
> >the coach and generator
> >batteries. I use a Xantrex 40 Truecharge, located in the center
> >driver's side compartment, to
> >keep the coach batteries charged. On the dash I have a rocker switch
> >that reads "auxiliary
> >battery". My understanding of the dash switch is you can use it
> >momentarily to augment the
> >coach batteries if they're too low to get the engine started.
> >
> >I've read a number of references to isolators but am clueless on how
> >they function and would
> >appreciate some education on the subject. I'm particularly curious
> >if my Xantrex charger may
> >be supplying the generator battery as well as the coach batteries.
> >Xantrex says mixing battery
> >types with the same charger is not a good thing.
> >
> >Eric Johnson
> >84FC35SB
> >San Antonio Texas
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----------
> >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > * Visit your group
> >
>
"<<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/\
WanderlodgeForum>WanderlodgeForum"
> on the web.
> > *
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > *
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odgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
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> >
> <<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
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>
>
>
>
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[Eric Johnson]

Hello Tom,
Thanks for isolator and auxiliary switch explanations. I will have to get the
generator
battery connected to a separate charger. Xantrex chargers can operate in
flooded, AGM or
gel modes depending on the setting you choose on the control panel. It cannot
operate in
more than one mode at a time. There are differences in charge rate and voltage
between
the battery types so even though the isolator will prevent one battery from
draining
another, it will expose all batteries to the same recharge settings with
possible damage
and shorter life for some depending on the mode you choose.

In hindsight, I would have been better off to install the same type of battery
throughout. It
didn't dawn on me about the possible isolator connection until I reread the
Xantrex
manual on charging modes.

Eric Johnson
84FC35SB
San Antonio Texas

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner wrote:
>
> There are 3 terminals on your isolator. The center goes to your
> alternator and charger, one end terminal goes to your chassis battery
> and the other end terminal goes to generator battery.
>
> The auxillary switch on the dash connects the chassis batteries and
> generator batteries in parallel so that either the low chassis
> batteries will be "boosted" by the generator battery or if the
> generator battery is low, the chassis battery can "boost" it.
>
> In the configuration you noted the charger is charging both the
> chassis and generator batteries. But there really isnt a problem
> since each battery is "isolated" from the other.
>
> Is this what you were looking for?
>
> Tom Warner
> 1982 FC35
> Vernon center,NY
>
>
> At 07:20 PM 11/6/2005, you wrote:
> >My coach has 4 - 6 volt AGM batteries that serve as starting and
> >accessory DC supply. I have
> >a gel battery mounted in the generator compartment that starts the
> >generator. I have an
> >"isolator" in the coach battery compartment with leads coming from
> >the coach and generator
> >batteries. I use a Xantrex 40 Truecharge, located in the center
> >driver's side compartment, to
> >keep the coach batteries charged. On the dash I have a rocker switch
> >that reads "auxiliary
> >battery". My understanding of the dash switch is you can use it
> >momentarily to augment the
> >coach batteries if they're too low to get the engine started.
> >
> >I've read a number of references to isolators but am clueless on how
> >they function and would
> >appreciate some education on the subject. I'm particularly curious
> >if my Xantrex charger may
> >be supplying the generator battery as well as the coach batteries.
> >Xantrex says mixing battery
> >types with the same charger is not a good thing.
> >
> >Eric Johnson
> >84FC35SB
> >San Antonio Texas
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----------
> >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > * Visit your group
> > "<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>WanderlodgeForum" on the
web.
> > *
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> >----------
>

[Howard O. Truitt]

Tom,
I use to have a cabin cruiser down on the gulf and it had an aux. switch and you
had to hold it down to keep the two banks together and when you released it it
went back to two seperate banks.
I don't know about the PT40 either, but I suspect it works the same way. But if
both battery banks are dead [as I had happen to me] the switch is of no value.
Regards,

Howard Truitt
Camilla, Ga.
86 8V92 PT40











----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Warner
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Please Explain Battery Isolator
Operation/Function


Good question Howard. On the forward control models the aux switch is
on the dash and you have to hold it down to activate it. As long as
you hold it down you have the two battery banks tied together. On
the PTs I am not sure.

Tom Warner
1982 FC35
Vernon Center,NY

At 09:26 PM 11/6/2005, you wrote:
>Tom,
>
>When you mash the Auxillary Switch do you have to sit and hold it
>down or does it stay open automatically and do you have to switch it off.
>
>Howard O. Truitt
>Camilla, Ga.
>86 8V92 PT40
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tom Warner
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 7:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Please Explain Battery Isolator
> Operation/Function
>
>
> There are 3 terminals on your isolator. The center goes to your
> alternator and charger, one end terminal goes to your chassis battery
> and the other end terminal goes to generator battery.
>
> The auxillary switch on the dash connects the chassis batteries and
> generator batteries in parallel so that either the low chassis
> batteries will be "boosted" by the generator battery or if the
> generator battery is low, the chassis battery can "boost" it.
>
> In the configuration you noted the charger is charging both the
> chassis and generator batteries. But there really isnt a problem
> since each battery is "isolated" from the other.
>
> Is this what you were looking for?
>
> Tom Warner
> 1982 FC35
> Vernon center,NY
>
>
> At 07:20 PM 11/6/2005, you wrote:
> >My coach has 4 - 6 volt AGM batteries that serve as starting and
> >accessory DC supply. I have
> >a gel battery mounted in the generator compartment that starts the
> >generator. I have an
> >"isolator" in the coach battery compartment with leads coming from
> >the coach and generator
> >batteries. I use a Xantrex 40 Truecharge, located in the center
> >driver's side compartment, to
> >keep the coach batteries charged. On the dash I have a rocker switch
> >that reads "auxiliary
> >battery". My understanding of the dash switch is you can use it
> >momentarily to augment the
> >coach batteries if they're too low to get the engine started.
> >
> >I've read a number of references to isolators but am clueless on how
> >they function and would
> >appreciate some education on the subject. I'm particularly curious
> >if my Xantrex charger may
> >be supplying the generator battery as well as the coach batteries.
> >Xantrex says mixing battery
> >types with the same charger is not a good thing.
> >
> >Eric Johnson
> >84FC35SB
> >San Antonio Texas
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----------
> >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> >
> > * Visit your group
> >
>
"<<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/\
WanderlodgeForum>WanderlodgeForum"
> on the web.
> > *
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > *
> >
>
Wanderl\
odgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> >
> > *
> > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> >
> <<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >----------
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Recreational vehicles Automotive maintenance
>
>

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Tom Warner]

Eric since you already have the Truecharge 40 (or is it a 40 +)? you
can add a echo charger to it and use it to charge the generator
battery separately. http://www.excessenergy.net/chargers.htm

Hope this helps,

Tom Warner
1982 Bluebird
Vernon Center,NY

At 09:57 PM 11/6/2005, you wrote:
>Hello Tom,
>Thanks for isolator and auxiliary switch explanations. I will have
>to get the generator
>battery connected to a separate charger. Xantrex chargers can
>operate in flooded, AGM or
>gel modes depending on the setting you choose on the control
>panel. It cannot operate in
>more than one mode at a time. There are differences in charge rate
>and voltage between
>the battery types so even though the isolator will prevent one
>battery from draining
>another, it will expose all batteries to the same recharge settings
>with possible damage
>and shorter life for some depending on the mode you choose.
>
>In hindsight, I would have been better off to install the same type
>of battery throughout. It
>didn't dawn on me about the possible isolator connection until I
>reread the Xantrex
>manual on charging modes.
>
>Eric Johnson
>84FC35SB
>San Antonio Texas
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner wrote:
> >
> > There are 3 terminals on your isolator. The center goes to your
> > alternator and charger, one end terminal goes to your chassis battery
> > and the other end terminal goes to generator battery.
> >
> > The auxillary switch on the dash connects the chassis batteries and
> > generator batteries in parallel so that either the low chassis
> > batteries will be "boosted" by the generator battery or if the
> > generator battery is low, the chassis battery can "boost" it.
> >
> > In the configuration you noted the charger is charging both the
> > chassis and generator batteries. But there really isnt a problem
> > since each battery is "isolated" from the other.
> >
> > Is this what you were looking for?
> >
> > Tom Warner
> > 1982 FC35
> > Vernon center,NY
> >
> >
> > At 07:20 PM 11/6/2005, you wrote:
> > >My coach has 4 - 6 volt AGM batteries that serve as starting and
> > >accessory DC supply. I have
> > >a gel battery mounted in the generator compartment that starts the
> > >generator. I have an
> > >"isolator" in the coach battery compartment with leads coming from
> > >the coach and generator
> > >batteries. I use a Xantrex 40 Truecharge, located in the center
> > >driver's side compartment, to
> > >keep the coach batteries charged. On the dash I have a rocker switch
> > >that reads "auxiliary
> > >battery". My understanding of the dash switch is you can use it
> > >momentarily to augment the
> > >coach batteries if they're too low to get the engine started.
> > >
> > >I've read a number of references to isolators but am clueless on how
> > >they function and would
> > >appreciate some education on the subject. I'm particularly curious
> > >if my Xantrex charger may
> > >be supplying the generator battery as well as the coach batteries.
> > >Xantrex says mixing battery
> > >types with the same charger is not a good thing.
> > >
> > >Eric Johnson
> > >84FC35SB
> > >San Antonio Texas
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----------
> > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
> > >
> > > * Visit your group
> > >
>
"<<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/\
WanderlodgeForum>WanderlodgeForum"
> on the
>web.
> > > *
> > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > *
> > > >subject=Unsubscribe>WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > *
> > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > >
> <<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >----------
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[Stephen Birtles]

when you mash the switch it only stays mashed while you are pushing
da button. It is a momentary contact switchy thingy
Stephen 77fc35

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Howard O. Truitt"
wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
> When you mash the Auxillary Switch do you have to sit and hold it
down or does it stay open automatically and do you have to switch it off.
>
> Howard O. Truitt
> Camilla, Ga.
> 86 8V92 PT40
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tom Warner
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, November 06, 2005 7:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Please Explain Battery Isolator
Operation/Function
>
>
> There are 3 terminals on your isolator. The center goes to your
> alternator and charger, one end terminal goes to your chassis battery
> and the other end terminal goes to generator battery.
>
> The auxillary switch on the dash connects the chassis batteries and
> generator batteries in parallel so that either the low chassis
> batteries will be "boosted" by the generator battery or if the
> generator battery is low, the chassis battery can "boost" it.
>
> In the configuration you noted the charger is charging both the
> chassis and generator batteries. But there really isnt a problem
> since each battery is "isolated" from the other.
>
> Is this what you were looking for?
>
> Tom Warner
> 1982 FC35
> Vernon center,NY
>
>
> At 07:20 PM 11/6/2005, you wrote:
> >My coach has 4 - 6 volt AGM batteries that serve as starting and
> >accessory DC supply. I have
> >a gel battery mounted in the generator compartment that starts the
> >generator. I have an
> >"isolator" in the coach battery compartment with leads coming from
> >the coach and generator
> >batteries. I use a Xantrex 40 Truecharge, located in the center
> >driver's side compartment, to
> >keep the coach batteries charged. On the dash I have a rocker switch
> >that reads "auxiliary
> >battery". My understanding of the dash switch is you can use it
> >momentarily to augment the
> >coach batteries if they're too low to get the engine started.
> >
> >I've read a number of references to isolators but am clueless on how
> >they function and would
> >appreciate some education on the subject. I'm particularly curious
> >if my Xantrex charger may
> >be supplying the generator battery as well as the coach batteries.
> >Xantrex says mixing battery
> >types with the same charger is not a good thing.
> >
> >Eric Johnson
> >84FC35SB
> >San Antonio Texas
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >----------
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> >
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> >
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the web.
> > *
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> > *
> >
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odgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[John Suter]

Hi Eric,

Most battery "isolators" work in a similar manner,
regardless of coach model or battery combinations;
which generally total two banks, with each providing
12 volts of power for different applications (i.e.
engine starting and house/coach 12V appliances to
include the inverter(s) which then provide/convert to
110V). Sometimes we loosely refer to the sturdy buss
bar device as the "isolator," when we really mean the
entire system of electrical components, including the
insulated buss bar, sets of diodes, and relays.

A major purpose of the isolator is to permit the
engine alternator charger (via its voltage regulator)
to simultaneously charge both the engine battery bank
and the coach/house battery bank, and when not
charging, to separate/isolate one bank from the other
to prevent an engine electrical load from discharging
the house/coach battery bank, and to prevent a house
load from discharging the engine bank. Often by
default, the isolator system simultaneously "permits"
the house/coach bank to be charged, while it
"prevents" charging the engine bank, by the
inverter/charger system (regardless of whether its
110V source is shore power or generator power).

This "isolation" process can be
"defeated/overridden/controlled" by a dash switch
often labeled "auxiliary battery," which electrically
connects both banks to one another and permits
amperage to flow both "in to" (if charging) or "out
of" (if discharging), both banks as if they were one
single battery/bank. Some Birds have a 2-way switch
(isolated, not isolated) and some a 3-way switch
(isolated, not isolated, momentarily not isolated as
long as the button is held down). Typically, the "not
isolated" position is indicated by a small green LED
becoming lit next to the switch.

Whenever the engine alternator charger is
operational, owners will notice that regardless of
switch position, the LED will be lit because under
that condition, the system must electrically defeat
the isolation process to charge all banks
simultaneously, and under control of the engine
voltage regulator system.

However, simultaneous charging of all banks, by the
inverter/charger regulator system, can be a problem if
the banks contain different battery "types" -
Lead-Acid, Gel, and AGM, as each type has different
charging characteristics, and the inverter/charger
system can only be set to charge one battery "type" at
a time. (Lead-Acid and AGM battery types often can
use the same setting).

Although Lead-Acid batteries require maintenance of
their acid/water level to be at least above the plates
to avoid damage, they tend to "boil" out their
acid/water under prolonged charging by
inverter/charger systems. None-the-less, most battery
experts agree the best combination of cost and
operational efficiency is for the engine starting
battery bank to contain Lead-Acid batteries, previous
Forum discussions/opinions notwithstanding. However,
unless the isolator is overridden by the dash switch
at the risk of damage to the engine bank, most
inverter/charger systems default to charge only the
coach/house battery bank, thus leaving the engine bank
uncharged.

So what is the recommended method to charge a
coach/house bank of Gel or AGM batteries and an engine
bank of Lead Acid batteries?

Isolate the banks via the dash switch, which permits
the inverter/charger to only charge the house bank.
Add an Echo-Charger (second isolation device about
$150) between the house bank and the engine bank to
"sense" the appropriate engine bank charge-rate (i.e.
"take" only an appropriate charge from the house bank
to maintain the charge of the engine bank). Note the
isolation by the Echo-charger permits the
inverter/charger to only "see" the coach/house bank
and to keep the engine bank "invisible," so the
inverter/charger will not adjust its charging rate to
that of the engine bank.

As for the generator starting battery, BB has used a
variety of ways to charge it from a small alternator
on the generator engine, to connecting to the isolator
system, parallel-ling it with the engine or coach
banks, and I've seen an Echo-charger used to charge it
as well.

Hope this helps more than it confuses.

John Suter




--- Eric Johnson wrote:

> My coach has 4 - 6 volt AGM batteries that serve as
> starting and accessory DC supply. I have
> a gel battery mounted in the generator compartment
> that starts the generator. I have an
> "isolator" in the coach battery compartment with
> leads coming from the coach and generator
> batteries. I use a Xantrex 40 Truecharge, located in
> the center driver's side compartment, to
> keep the coach batteries charged. On the dash I have
> a rocker switch that reads "auxiliary
> battery". My understanding of the dash switch is you
> can use it momentarily to augment the
> coach batteries if they're too low to get the engine
> started.
>
> I've read a number of references to isolators but am
> clueless on how they function and would
> appreciate some education on the subject. I'm
> particularly curious if my Xantrex charger may
> be supplying the generator battery as well as the
> coach batteries. Xantrex says mixing battery
> types with the same charger is not a good thing.
>
> Eric Johnson
> 84FC35SB
> San Antonio Texas
>
>
>
>




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