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Hydro-Hot systems
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Hydro-Hot systems
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Hydro-Hot systems
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12-17-2005, 18:22
Post: #1
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Hydro-Hot systems
As part of the refurb on my '84 PT40WL, I am considering removing
all the propane heat, refrigerator, hot water heater and cooktop systems along with the electric heaters throughout the coach and installing the hydro-Hot system. This would free up some space, remove a lot of weight and electric circuits as well as provide updated heat for the coach. The deeper I get into this project the more I realize the massive nature of the Blue Bird coach. This baby is like a tank. Everything is super-duty in design and function. I had wanted one since I was a young pup and the local millionaire brought one out to the airport where I was washing planes to pay for flight lessons. What a neat motorcoach. What are your opinions on this conversion. The Hydro-Hot is about $5,500. As a retired ATP and long time A&P and IA I have dertainly have the time, the tools, the shop and the ability to do the conversion. Just looking for wiser heads to input their thoughts on this. Thanks, Roger Sadler Little Rock, '84PT40WL |
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12-17-2005, 20:57
Post: #2
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Hydro-Hot systems
That sounds like a project. What if--- the Hydro hot fails- in real cold
weather? Ernie-83pt40 in texas- all heaters work- not at one time [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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12-18-2005, 01:34
Post: #3
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Hydro-Hot systems
Hi Roger,
> As part of the refurb on my '84 PT40WL, I am > considering removing > all the propane heat, refrigerator, hot water heater > and cooktop > systems along with the electric heaters throughout > the coach and > installing the hydro-Hot system. WOW that is a mouthful. In our (wife and I) opinion, one of the best upgrades BB made in late 90's was to Aqua-Hot system; however, it appears to require regular annual attention to diesel burner section and every 2-3 yr replacement of the mixing system "guts;" shouldn't be a problem for you mechanically, but a cost consideration. How about considering the possibility of leaving the refrig, cooktop, and elect heaters as is? Understand the primary heating for the Aqua-hot/Hydro-hot is electric and the diesel only fires when the elect can't maintain the required temps. Second, understand the diesel burner is only 50,000BTU so sufficient hot water (for showering) is very dependent upon the incoming water temp and its required temp rise; AND that same burner has to generate the heat for coach heating. E.g. Even with cool, not cold, outside temps, you will not get a long hot shower without shutting down the coach heat temporarily. Therefore, you will "want" to keep the elect boost heaters; even the newer models with their double insulated glass, have at least 2 to augment. > This would free up some space, remove a lot of > weight and electric > circuits as well as provide updated heat for the > coach. Doubt you'll net any weight savings and don't recall size of the propane tank in your model, but with refrig backup and cooktop, would likely only need a 40gal or so. We'd also have "to sit a spell and chat" before I'd be convinced about "removing a lot of electric circuits" - the numerous branches and loops for at least 3 zones are likely to require more circuits, not fewer. > The deeper I get into this project the more I > realize the massive > nature of the Blue Bird coach. This baby is like a > tank. > Everything is super-duty in design and function. That's one reason we fools keep on buyin' 'em. > What are your opinions on this conversion. The > Hydro-Hot is about > $5,500. Probably can't cost justify, but it would give you a project to be proud of having added, and some "bragging rights" among the rest of us. > As a retired ATP and long time A&P and IA I > have dertainly > have the time, the tools, the shop and the ability > to do the > conversion. Just looking for wiser heads to input > their thoughts on > this. Thanks, Boy, that's unfairly puttin' on the pressure. John Suter, (ret: CFII etc.) 2000LXi and prior __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com |
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12-18-2005, 03:39
Post: #4
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Hydro-Hot systems
One question: How old are you and what's your life expentency? Blair in
Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: pt40wl1 To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 10:22 PM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Hydro-Hot systems As part of the refurb on my '84 PT40WL, I am considering removing all the propane heat, refrigerator, hot water heater and cooktop systems along with the electric heaters throughout the coach and installing the hydro-Hot system. This would free up some space, remove a lot of weight and electric circuits as well as provide updated heat for the coach. The deeper I get into this project the more I realize the massive nature of the Blue Bird coach. This baby is like a tank. Everything is super-duty in design and function. I had wanted one since I was a young pup and the local millionaire brought one out to the airport where I was washing planes to pay for flight lessons. What a neat motorcoach. What are your opinions on this conversion. The Hydro-Hot is about $5,500. As a retired ATP and long time A&P and IA I have dertainly have the time, the tools, the shop and the ability to do the conversion. Just looking for wiser heads to input their thoughts on this. Thanks, Roger Sadler Little Rock, '84PT40WL SPONSORED LINKS Recreational vehicles Wanderlodge Automotive maintenance Recreational vehicle dealer Used recreational vehicles Automotive radiators ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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12-18-2005, 04:36
Post: #5
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Hydro-Hot systems
Your chassis heat system is the basis of a hot water system, just add a diesel
boiler and replace fans with those new fangled "computer" fans and you have a usable system. I have used the Pro heat diesel boiler in my custom toter home and my FC. I would not abandon the electric or LP heaters myself as I like the back up systems. Pro Heat has a web site, I paid $1200 for the X 45 that is the "bus" application heater. I shopped the Hydrohot and Webasto products, old sayin' Bucks or BS. I don't mind a little BS. In the FC, we use the electric heat most of the time as we like to stay at commercial camp grounds. Dry camping is getting costly if ones wants to use diesel to heat the interior. I really like the fact that I never have to start my engine cold, one of the best features of the boiler. It takes about a half hour from cold to showing movement on the heat gage. The FC is in dry dock for the next 5 or 6 months, the chassis heat is on the agenda for serious flushing and a look at the routing of the supply lines. The floor plan is rear bath, the water heater is located in the road side rear corner and the chassis heater for the bath is located under the sink. The bath heater becomes effective first on a warm up cycle the dinette heater next then the solon. The solon heater doesn't work well unless the bus is under way, I need to find what is up with the flow, I think something might have been bolixed up by a past owner as the rubber hose on the underside has been replaced with silicon hose. My winter/summer sporlan doesn't shut off the flow to the dinette heater as an example. I'm confident that the oem chassis heat has the potential to successfully warm the coach interior when camping, time will tell in my case. Mike Hohnstein Germantown, WI 83FC35 ----- Original Message ----- From: pt40wl1 To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 12:22 AM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Hydro-Hot systems As part of the refurb on my '84 PT40WL, I am considering removing all the propane heat, refrigerator, hot water heater and cooktop systems along with the electric heaters throughout the coach and installing the hydro-Hot system. This would free up some space, remove a lot of weight and electric circuits as well as provide updated heat for the coach. The deeper I get into this project the more I realize the massive nature of the Blue Bird coach. This baby is like a tank. Everything is super-duty in design and function. I had wanted one since I was a young pup and the local millionaire brought one out to the airport where I was washing planes to pay for flight lessons. What a neat motorcoach. What are your opinions on this conversion. The Hydro-Hot is about $5,500. As a retired ATP and long time A&P and IA I have dertainly have the time, the tools, the shop and the ability to do the conversion. Just looking for wiser heads to input their thoughts on this. Thanks, Roger Sadler Little Rock, '84PT40WL SPONSORED LINKS Recreational vehicles Wanderlodge Automotive maintenance Recreational vehicle dealer Used recreational vehicles Automotive radiators ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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12-18-2005, 04:37
Post: #6
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Hydro-Hot systems
A good question.
Mike Hohnstein ----- Original Message ----- From: Blair To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 9:39 AM Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Hydro-Hot systems One question: How old are you and what's your life expentency? Blair in Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: pt40wl1 To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 10:22 PM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Hydro-Hot systems As part of the refurb on my '84 PT40WL, I am considering removing all the propane heat, refrigerator, hot water heater and cooktop systems along with the electric heaters throughout the coach and installing the hydro-Hot system. This would free up some space, remove a lot of weight and electric circuits as well as provide updated heat for the coach. The deeper I get into this project the more I realize the massive nature of the Blue Bird coach. This baby is like a tank. Everything is super-duty in design and function. I had wanted one since I was a young pup and the local millionaire brought one out to the airport where I was washing planes to pay for flight lessons. What a neat motorcoach. What are your opinions on this conversion. The Hydro-Hot is about $5,500. As a retired ATP and long time A&P and IA I have dertainly have the time, the tools, the shop and the ability to do the conversion. Just looking for wiser heads to input their thoughts on this. Thanks, Roger Sadler Little Rock, '84PT40WL SPONSORED LINKS Recreational vehicles Wanderlodge Automotive maintenance Recreational vehicle dealer Used recreational vehicles Automotive radiators ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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12-18-2005, 04:42
Post: #7
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Hydro-Hot systems
Only if you own a bird................I can't even begin to imagine rebuilding a
bird like that. Morning Mike. We leave tomorrow for the south - warmth - shrimp tacos - Blair ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Hohnstein To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 8:37 AM Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Hydro-Hot systems A good question. Mike Hohnstein ----- Original Message ----- From: Blair To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 9:39 AM Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Hydro-Hot systems One question: How old are you and what's your life expentency? Blair in Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: pt40wl1 To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 10:22 PM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Hydro-Hot systems As part of the refurb on my '84 PT40WL, I am considering removing all the propane heat, refrigerator, hot water heater and cooktop systems along with the electric heaters throughout the coach and installing the hydro-Hot system. This would free up some space, remove a lot of weight and electric circuits as well as provide updated heat for the coach. The deeper I get into this project the more I realize the massive nature of the Blue Bird coach. This baby is like a tank. Everything is super-duty in design and function. I had wanted one since I was a young pup and the local millionaire brought one out to the airport where I was washing planes to pay for flight lessons. What a neat motorcoach. What are your opinions on this conversion. The Hydro-Hot is about $5,500. As a retired ATP and long time A&P and IA I have dertainly have the time, the tools, the shop and the ability to do the conversion. Just looking for wiser heads to input their thoughts on this. Thanks, Roger Sadler Little Rock, '84PT40WL SPONSORED LINKS Recreational vehicles Wanderlodge Automotive maintenance Recreational vehicle dealer Used recreational vehicles Automotive radiators ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] SPONSORED LINKS Recreational vehicles Wanderlodge Automotive maintenance Recreational vehicle dealer Used recreational vehicles Automotive radiators ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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12-18-2005, 05:06
Post: #8
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Hydro-Hot systems
Having lived with the Aqua Hot system for over ten years and having
installed one and replaced another, I think I might be able to shed some light on the subject. For background: I installed the complete system in the GM bus conversion the wife and I designed and built. That was installed in the early nineties and worked flawlessly as long as we had the coach. The '95 BB we now have had an Aqua hot installed when we got it. Obviously it was left in cold country, unwinterized, and the domestic water heater coil split. I elected to replace the unit with a rebuilt unit from Vehicle Systems. As for annual maintenance: Vehicle Systems recommends that the "nozzle/filter" be replaced annually. I chose to replace on condition and found that it needed replacement about every three years. The newer ones have a filter screen that can be cleaned, reducing cost. I carry a couple with me just in case. The burner can does need replacing periodically. I had to replace mine, in the GM bus, once in over ten years of operation. My current coach is all electric - no propane. There are pluses and minuses to either system. I have to either be plugged in or be running the generator. I really need 50 amp power - not always easy to find. I have a cheater that I built so that I can use two 30 outlets or a 30 and a 20 to power the two legs of the coach. Now the wife really loves the large (19 cu. ft.) refrigerator which has ice and water in the door as well as being frost free; But it is a power hog. Makes boon docking difficult as the generator needs to be running most of the time. She is adapting to using the two burner electric cook top. I firmly feel that the hydronic heat is much nicer than the forced hot air. In any newer coach, we will have Hydronic heat. As far as heating domestic hot water, we have never run out. True, the Aqua Hot has a larger tank and a few other items that the Hydro Hot does not. Both are quite adequate and I believe that I would use the Hydro Hot if I were in your shoes. I would definitely keep the electric toe kick heaters. We use them exclusively when heating requirements are low, only kicking on the Aqua Hot when more heat capacity is needed. The electric element in the Aqua Hot was designed to be used for low heat requirements and as a backup for the diesel burner. BB hooked theirs up so that both could be used at the same time. Vehicle Systems originally designed it so that they would be used separately. (BTW, I had one of the original units.) You are looking at quite a bit of work which will include the removal of the propane systems but installation of the hydronic heating system which will require running water lines for all the heat exchanger units. I used 1/2" copper but BB used rubber hoses which should be easier to retrofit. Cost wise, I think it will cost closer to $8,000 for material by the time you are done, not counting the refer and cook top. If I can be of any help, let me know. George Lowry '95 WBDA 4203 Spearfish, SD Currently at TTN in Soledad Canyon, CA heading south. Be in Palm Springs next week, then to the WMHA rally in Indio. John Suter wrote: >Hi Roger, > > > >>As part of the refurb on my '84 PT40WL, I am >>considering removing >>all the propane heat, refrigerator, hot water heater >>and cooktop >>systems along with the electric heaters throughout >>the coach and >>installing the hydro-Hot system. >> >> > > WOW that is a mouthful. In our (wife and I) >opinion, one of the best upgrades BB made in late 90's >was to Aqua-Hot system; however, it appears to require >regular annual attention to diesel burner section and >every 2-3 yr replacement of the mixing system "guts;" >shouldn't be a problem for you mechanically, but a >cost consideration. > > How about considering the possibility of leaving the >refrig, cooktop, and elect heaters as is? > Understand the primary heating for the >Aqua-hot/Hydro-hot is electric and the diesel only >fires when the elect can't maintain the required >temps. Second, understand the diesel burner is only >50,000BTU so sufficient hot water (for showering) is >very dependent upon the incoming water temp and its >required temp rise; AND that same burner has to >generate the heat for coach heating. E.g. Even with >cool, not cold, outside temps, you will not get a long >hot shower without shutting down the coach heat >temporarily. Therefore, you will "want" to keep the >elect boost heaters; even the newer models with their >double insulated glass, have at least 2 to augment. > > > >>This would free up some space, remove a lot of >>weight and electric >>circuits as well as provide updated heat for the >>coach. >> >> > > Doubt you'll net any weight savings and don't recall >size of the propane tank in your model, but with >refrig backup and cooktop, would likely only need a >40gal or so. > We'd also have "to sit a spell and chat" before I'd >be convinced about "removing a lot of electric >circuits" - the numerous branches and loops for at >least 3 zones are likely to require more circuits, not >fewer. > > > >>The deeper I get into this project the more I >>realize the massive >>nature of the Blue Bird coach. This baby is like a >>tank. >>Everything is super-duty in design and function. >> >> > > That's one reason we fools keep on buyin' 'em. > > > >>What are your opinions on this conversion. The >>Hydro-Hot is about >>$5,500. >> >> > > Probably can't cost justify, but it would give you a >project to be proud of having added, and some >"bragging rights" among the rest of us. > > > > >>As a retired ATP and long time A&P and IA I >>have dertainly >>have the time, the tools, the shop and the ability >>to do the >>conversion. Just looking for wiser heads to input >>their thoughts on >>this. Thanks, >> >> > > Boy, that's unfairly puttin' on the pressure. > >John Suter, (ret: CFII etc.) >2000LXi and prior > > > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.1/206 - Release Date: 12/16/2005 |
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12-18-2005, 05:28
Post: #9
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Hydro-Hot systems
Watch out for the black ice and fog. I'll stay here in the land of cheese and
burn wood. Bright sunny day, foot of snow and 10degrees above 10 am. I love it, some doubt my sincerity but cold is good. However don't get locked out of the house, that's not good. MH ----- Original Message ----- From: Blair To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 10:42 AM Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Hydro-Hot systems Only if you own a bird................I can't even begin to imagine rebuilding a bird like that. Morning Mike. We leave tomorrow for the south - warmth - shrimp tacos - Blair ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Hohnstein To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 8:37 AM Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Hydro-Hot systems A good question. Mike Hohnstein ----- Original Message ----- From: Blair To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 9:39 AM Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Hydro-Hot systems One question: How old are you and what's your life expentency? Blair in Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: pt40wl1 To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 10:22 PM Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Hydro-Hot systems As part of the refurb on my '84 PT40WL, I am considering removing all the propane heat, refrigerator, hot water heater and cooktop systems along with the electric heaters throughout the coach and installing the hydro-Hot system. This would free up some space, remove a lot of weight and electric circuits as well as provide updated heat for the coach. The deeper I get into this project the more I realize the massive nature of the Blue Bird coach. This baby is like a tank. Everything is super-duty in design and function. I had wanted one since I was a young pup and the local millionaire brought one out to the airport where I was washing planes to pay for flight lessons. What a neat motorcoach. What are your opinions on this conversion. The Hydro-Hot is about $5,500. As a retired ATP and long time A&P and IA I have dertainly have the time, the tools, the shop and the ability to do the conversion. Just looking for wiser heads to input their thoughts on this. Thanks, Roger Sadler Little Rock, '84PT40WL SPONSORED LINKS Recreational vehicles Wanderlodge Automotive maintenance Recreational vehicle dealer Used recreational vehicles Automotive radiators ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] SPONSORED LINKS Recreational vehicles Wanderlodge Automotive maintenance Recreational vehicle dealer Used recreational vehicles Automotive radiators ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] SPONSORED LINKS Recreational vehicles Wanderlodge Automotive maintenance Recreational vehicle dealer Used recreational vehicles Automotive radiators ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS a.. Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web. b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] |
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