auxilliary air compressor maintenance

[luckyron1]

Ours runs about twice a day when we are parked. At the same time, I
note that the air toilet compressor is also running, and I think that
the two compressors are connected. (I had the latter replaced about 2
yrs. ago.) The tank or compressor expels air for 50 to 60 cycles before
it finally stabilizes, fills, and shuts off. I think I have to drain
the water out but don't know where the drain is. Anyone??
Thanks

Ron & Ruth in 2000 lxi

[Jerry]

Ron & Ruth - I have been told by truckers that the Detroit 60Series is very
fuel efficient. Have you found that so?



Jerry

Looking





_____

From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of luckyron1
Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 9:02 AM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] auxilliary air compressor maintenance



Ours runs about twice a day when we are parked. At the same time, I
note that the air toilet compressor is also running, and I think that
the two compressors are connected. (I had the latter replaced about 2
yrs. ago.) The tank or compressor expels air for 50 to 60 cycles before
it finally stabilizes, fills, and shuts off. I think I have to drain
the water out but don't know where the drain is. Anyone??
Thanks

Ron & Ruth in 2000 lxi







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[George Lowry]

Jerry,

I'm not Ron & Ruth - but I had the series 60 in our Wanderlodge. The
best I ever saw was 6 mpg and that was after modifications. It usually
ran between 5 & 6 mpg. According to the Detroit guru's I have talked
to, the World transmission just doesn't have enough gears to get best
fuel economy. The best rpm for the series is 1400. To get that, you are
limited to 55 mph. At 65 mph, you are turning 1600 rpm. If we had a
fifteen speed like the truckers do, we could keep the engine at the 1400
rpm and get the best efficiency.

George Lowry
'06 Alpine Apex - Former owner of '95 WBDA 4203
Spearfish, SD enjoying the warmth in Palm Springs...

Jerry wrote:

>Ron & Ruth - I have been told by truckers that the Detroit 60Series is very
>fuel efficient. Have you found that so?
>
>
>
>Jerry
>
>Looking
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of luckyron1
>Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 9:02 AM
>To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] auxilliary air compressor maintenance
>
>
>
>Ours runs about twice a day when we are parked. At the same time, I
>note that the air toilet compressor is also running, and I think that
>the two compressors are connected. (I had the latter replaced about 2
>yrs. ago.) The tank or compressor expels air for 50 to 60 cycles before
>it finally stabilizes, fills, and shuts off. I think I have to drain
>the water out but don't know where the drain is. Anyone??
>Thanks
>
>Ron & Ruth in 2000 lxi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[John Suter]

Hi Ron,

--- luckyron1 wrote:
> Ours runs about twice a day when we are parked. At
> the same time, I
> note that the air toilet compressor is also running,
> and I think that
> the two compressors are connected.

The 110V compressor and the 12V compressor were not
originally connected to one another by BB. However,
many owners, including me, have had them replumbed so
they both feed all air requirements and had the
pressure regulators set so the 110v kicks in at a
slightly lower air pressure than the 12V so the 110V
effectively becomes the "master compressor," after the
engine compressor. Plumbed in this manner, in the
event 110V is not present (and the 110V is not usually
connected to the inverter), the 12V will then come on
and drive the toilet and the slide air seals.

> (I had the
> latter replaced about 2
> yrs. ago.) The tank or compressor expels air for 50
> to 60 cycles before
> it finally stabilizes, fills, and shuts off. I
> think I have to drain
> the water out but don't know where the drain is.

Reach into the area where the 110V compressor is
buried behind wooden panels covered with felt, or
unscrew the panels, and feel for a 3/8" relatively
"loose" plastic air tubing line. At its far end is a
connector with the ability to open and drain the tank
of accumulated water. Gently pull the tubing out from
the opening and you will note the tube length is just
long enough to reach outside the bin area. Stand back
when you open the pet-cock as, if it hasn't been
regularly drained, it may spew lots of gunk.

Good luck,

John Suter
2000LXi

> Anyone??
> Thanks
>
> Ron & Ruth in 2000 lxi
>
>
>
>
>


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[R J]

Hi John,

I could find only one drain line with a petcock on it.
It comes from the bottom of the air tank, which is
mounted above and between the 12 volt and 110 volt
compressors, and runs down and through the floor. It
won't pull out of the floor so I assume it drains
beneath the coach. I opened it, the 12 volt
compressor came on and I heard the sound of air
expelling from the tank. I looked beneath the coach
and I couldn't see any water spray or hear any air
noise. I left the valve petcock open for about a
minute and then closed it. The 12 volt compressor ran
for another few minutes and then shut down. Last nite
the 110 volt compressor came on and made that air
sputtering sound that compressors make over a hundred
times before 'closing', and then ran another minute or
so before shutting down. I must be missing something
here. Any ideas? Thanks.

Ron & Ruth in 2000 Lxi

--- John Suter wrote:

> Hi Ron,
>
> --- luckyron1 wrote:
> > Ours runs about twice a day when we are parked.
> At
> > the same time, I
> > note that the air toilet compressor is also
> running,
> > and I think that
> > the two compressors are connected.
>
> The 110V compressor and the 12V compressor were
> not
> originally connected to one another by BB. However,
> many owners, including me, have had them replumbed
> so
> they both feed all air requirements and had the
> pressure regulators set so the 110v kicks in at a
> slightly lower air pressure than the 12V so the 110V
> effectively becomes the "master compressor," after
> the
> engine compressor. Plumbed in this manner, in the
> event 110V is not present (and the 110V is not
> usually
> connected to the inverter), the 12V will then come
> on
> and drive the toilet and the slide air seals.
>
> > (I had the
> > latter replaced about 2
> > yrs. ago.) The tank or compressor expels air for
> 50
> > to 60 cycles before
> > it finally stabilizes, fills, and shuts off. I
> > think I have to drain
> > the water out but don't know where the drain is.
>
> Reach into the area where the 110V compressor is
> buried behind wooden panels covered with felt, or
> unscrew the panels, and feel for a 3/8" relatively
> "loose" plastic air tubing line. At its far end is
> a
> connector with the ability to open and drain the
> tank
> of accumulated water. Gently pull the tubing out
> from
> the opening and you will note the tube length is
> just
> long enough to reach outside the bin area. Stand
> back
> when you open the pet-cock as, if it hasn't been
> regularly drained, it may spew lots of gunk.
>
> Good luck,
>
> John Suter
> 2000LXi
>
> > Anyone??
> > Thanks
> >
> > Ron & Ruth in 2000 lxi
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>

[John Suter]

Hi again Ron,

--- R J wrote:

> Hi John,
>
> I could find only one drain line with a petcock on
> it.
> It comes from the bottom of the air tank, which is
> mounted above and between the 12 volt and 110 volt
> compressors, and runs down and through the floor.

I've not seen one mounted in that fashion, and I'd
prefer to be able to "see" the output; however, the
point is you found it. Add a reminder to drain, to
your monthly maintenance checklist, especially if you
live in an area of humidity. The 12Volt compressor
does not have a tank to drain, and the engine air
compressor has a built-in air dryer which dryer
cartridge should be changed every few years.

> It
> won't pull out of the floor so I assume it drains
> beneath the coach. I opened it, the 12 volt
> compressor came on and I heard the sound of air
> expelling from the tank. I looked beneath the coach
> and I couldn't see any water spray or hear any air
> noise. I left the valve petcock open for about a
> minute and then closed it. The 12 volt compressor
> ran
> for another few minutes and then shut down.

For the 12V to come on when the 110V tank is drained
must mean they are plumbed together. However, for the
12v to come on before the 110V must also mean their
pressure regulators must be set in the reverse of what
I would desire.

> Last nite
> the 110 volt compressor came on and made that air
> sputtering sound that compressors make over a
> hundred
> times before 'closing', and then ran another minute
> or
> so before shutting down. I must be missing
> something
> here. Any ideas? Thanks.

For what it's worth, my 110V will operate about 1
minute, "sputter" a couple of times, then shut down
and will cycle in that manner about every 3-4 hours.

The 12V compressors are notorious for wearing out
their teflon-like, piston seal, and perhaps that is
what is causing the prolonged operation you describe.
Unfortunately, you cannot repair the 5 cent seal and
must purchase a new $150 complete pump, if it fails.
I became "pi##ed" (upset) at the seal problem and
found a manufacturer who would produce the seals to
order - however the minimum order was about 1 million
seals for about $1,000 - not much help. A solution is
to perform the replumb I mentioned previously, and to
add a 12V switch to the 12V compressor pump to
conserve/preserve their life. I note that some BB's
have the switch factory installed and some do not.

Regards,

John Suter



>
> Ron & Ruth in 2000 Lxi
>
> --- John Suter wrote:
>
> > Hi Ron,
> >
> > --- luckyron1 wrote:
> > > Ours runs about twice a day when we are parked.
> > At
> > > the same time, I
> > > note that the air toilet compressor is also
> > running,
> > > and I think that
> > > the two compressors are connected.
> >
> > The 110V compressor and the 12V compressor were
> > not
> > originally connected to one another by BB.
> However,
> > many owners, including me, have had them replumbed
> > so
> > they both feed all air requirements and had the
> > pressure regulators set so the 110v kicks in at a
> > slightly lower air pressure than the 12V so the
> 110V
> > effectively becomes the "master compressor," after
> > the
> > engine compressor. Plumbed in this manner, in the
> > event 110V is not present (and the 110V is not
> > usually
> > connected to the inverter), the 12V will then come
> > on
> > and drive the toilet and the slide air seals.
> >
> > > (I had the
> > > latter replaced about 2
> > > yrs. ago.) The tank or compressor expels air for
> > 50
> > > to 60 cycles before
> > > it finally stabilizes, fills, and shuts off. I
> > > think I have to drain
> > > the water out but don't know where the drain is.
>
> >
> > Reach into the area where the 110V compressor is
> > buried behind wooden panels covered with felt, or
> > unscrew the panels, and feel for a 3/8" relatively
> > "loose" plastic air tubing line. At its far end
> is
> > a
> > connector with the ability to open and drain the
> > tank
> > of accumulated water. Gently pull the tubing out
> > from
> > the opening and you will note the tube length is
> > just
> > long enough to reach outside the bin area. Stand
> > back
> > when you open the pet-cock as, if it hasn't been
> > regularly drained, it may spew lots of gunk.
> >
> > Good luck,
> >
> > John Suter
> > 2000LXi
> >
> > > Anyone??
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Ron & Ruth in 2000 lxi
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> > protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>
>


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[R J]

Thanks again John, I'm just not a mechanical guy and
I'm still confused.
> > It
> > won't pull out of the floor so I assume it drains
> > beneath the coach. I opened it, the 12 volt
> > compressor came on and I heard the sound of air
> > expelling from the tank.

Actually, when I tried it again, the 110 volt
compressor came on 1st and then a minute or so later
the 12 volt one kicked in. I don't have a clue how
they might be plumbed but the 12 volt one seems to
work independent of the 110 volt one. Like you, I
just had the 12 volt compressor replaced a couple of
years ago and to me, it seems to be performing
perfectly since then.... although now that you
mention it, I notice that it occassionaly comes on
spontaneously for 20 seconds our so. To give you an
idea, when new, it ran about 40 seconds after a flush
and then shut down and that hasn't changed since I had
it put in. To further confuse, I'm suprized to hear
that your 110 volt cycles every 3 to 4 hours because
ours doesn't seem to cycle more than 2 to 3 times per
day.

--- John Suter wrote:
> For the 12V to come on when the 110V tank is
> drained
> must mean they are plumbed together. However, for
> the
> 12v to come on before the 110V must also mean their
> pressure regulators must be set in the reverse of
> what
> I would desire.

> For what it's worth, my 110V will operate about 1
> minute, "sputter" a couple of times, then shut down
> and will cycle in that manner about every 3-4 hours.



> The 12V compressors are notorious for wearing out
> their teflon-like, piston seal, and perhaps that is
> what is causing the prolonged operation you
> describe.
> Unfortunately, you cannot repair the 5 cent seal and
> must purchase a new $150 complete pump, if it fails.
>
> I became "pi##ed" (upset) at the seal problem and
> found a manufacturer who would produce the seals to
> order - however the minimum order was about 1
> million
> seals for about $1,000 - not much help. A solution
> is
> to perform the replumb I mentioned previously, and
> to
> add a 12V switch to the 12V compressor pump to
> conserve/preserve their life. I note that some BB's
> have the switch factory installed and some do not.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Suter

I don't understand why the 12 volt compressor is even
necessary what with the engines compressor, the 110
volt auxilliary compressor, the inverters and
generator. Maybe a shut off switch on the 12 volt is
the way to go. Just save it for when all else fails?
Your further thoughts and advice appreciated.

ron & ruth

[John Suter]

Ron,

Sorry you are still confused and hope I haven't
added to it.

--- R J wrote:

> Thanks again John, I'm just not a mechanical guy and
> I'm still confused.
> Actually, when I tried it again, the 110 volt
> compressor came on 1st and then a minute or so later
> the 12 volt one kicked in.

Great! That is the manner in which I believe it
should work.

> I don't have a clue how
> they might be plumbed but the 12 volt one seems to
> work independent of the 110 volt one. Like you, I
> just had the 12 volt compressor replaced a couple of
> years ago and to me, it seems to be performing
> perfectly since then.... although now that you
> mention it, I notice that it occassionaly comes on
> spontaneously for 20 seconds our so. To give you an
> idea, when new, it ran about 40 seconds after a
> flush
> and then shut down and that hasn't changed since I
> had
> it put in. To further confuse, I'm suprized to hear
> that your 110 volt cycles every 3 to 4 hours because
> ours doesn't seem to cycle more than 2 to 3 times
> per
> day.

My guess is I should look for some leaks and fix
'em. That will be the next project.

> I don't understand why the 12 volt compressor is
> even
> necessary what with the engines compressor, the 110
> volt auxilliary compressor, the inverters and
> generator.

Typically, the 110V compressor is not on the
inverter so you need the 12V compressor whenever you
are not connected to shore power or the generator is
not running.

> Maybe a shut off switch on the 12 volt
> is
> the way to go. Just save it for when all else
> fails?

When our 2000 was new, BB replaced the 12V 4 or 5
times under warranty. I thought there has to be a
better way, especially when it became my nickel. The
switch was simple, cheap, and I haven't replaced a 12V
pump since.

> Your further thoughts and advice appreciated.

Glad to try and help. I think you have it.

John


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[luckyron1]

Hey John,

As it turned out, the aux comp stopped running yesterday. We are
hooked up to shorepower, the slide is out, and the 12 volt
compressor is functioning normally when the toilet flushes; and a
little extra from time to time during the day for the other non-
engine related air-acuated devices. I have a new Gast Compressor
(same model) on the way to us and will probably have it by the
middle of next week; will have it installed by a local RV Tech. In
the interim I want to make sure we don't burn out the 12 volt
compressor. I'm thinking that to be on the safe side that we should
probably put the slide in?; turn off the aux comp breaker; open both
the gray and black water valves; cease using the stair-well
cover....

In the mean time I have overcome some of my early alzheimers and
recalled that my air toilet wouldn't work when my 12 volt died about
2 yrs. ago, so it would follow that the 2 compressors weren't
plumbed together as some birders have had done. I'm wondering how
to do it or have it done. Do you have a diagram or something?

Your thoughts appreciated

. --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, John Suter
wrote:
>
> Ron,
>
> Sorry you are still confused and hope I haven't
> added to it.
>
> --- R J wrote:
>
> > Thanks again John, I'm just not a mechanical guy and
> > I'm still confused.
> > Actually, when I tried it again, the 110 volt
> > compressor came on 1st and then a minute or so later
> > the 12 volt one kicked in.
>
> Great! That is the manner in which I believe it
> should work.
>
> > I don't have a clue how
> > they might be plumbed but the 12 volt one seems to
> > work independent of the 110 volt one. Like you, I
> > just had the 12 volt compressor replaced a couple of
> > years ago and to me, it seems to be performing
> > perfectly since then.... although now that you
> > mention it, I notice that it occassionaly comes on
> > spontaneously for 20 seconds our so. To give you an
> > idea, when new, it ran about 40 seconds after a
> > flush
> > and then shut down and that hasn't changed since I
> > had
> > it put in. To further confuse, I'm suprized to hear
> > that your 110 volt cycles every 3 to 4 hours because
> > ours doesn't seem to cycle more than 2 to 3 times
> > per
> > day.
>
> My guess is I should look for some leaks and fix
> 'em. That will be the next project.
>
> > I don't understand why the 12 volt compressor is
> > even
> > necessary what with the engines compressor, the 110
> > volt auxilliary compressor, the inverters and
> > generator.
>
> Typically, the 110V compressor is not on the
> inverter so you need the 12V compressor whenever you
> are not connected to shore power or the generator is
> not running.
>
> > Maybe a shut off switch on the 12 volt
> > is
> > the way to go. Just save it for when all else
> > fails?
>
> When our 2000 was new, BB replaced the 12V 4 or 5
> times under warranty. I thought there has to be a
> better way, especially when it became my nickel. The
> switch was simple, cheap, and I haven't replaced a 12V
> pump since.
>
> > Your further thoughts and advice appreciated.
>
> Glad to try and help. I think you have it.
>
> John
>
>
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[John Suter]

Oh, I'm sorry, Ron, to hear your 110V compressor bit
the dust.

--- luckyron1 wrote:
> Hey John,
> As it turned out, the aux comp stopped running
> yesterday. We are
> hooked up to shorepower, the slide is out, and the
> 12 volt
> compressor is functioning normally when the toilet
> flushes; and a
> little extra from time to time during the day for
> the other non-
> engine related air-acuated devices. I have a new
> Gast Compressor
> (same model) on the way to us and will probably have
> it by the
> middle of next week; will have it installed by a
> local RV Tech. In
> the interim I want to make sure we don't burn out
> the 12 volt
> compressor.

I take it you do not have a switch currently
installed for the 12V compressor. You can purchase
any brand of single pole, on/off switch, rated at 12
volts or more, and 15 amps or more, from NAPA or Radio
Shack. Personally, I would choose one with "screw
type" terminals, to make the electrical connections
easy on yourself.
Although the switch doesn't need a "through metal"
mounting location or bracket, if one is readily
available I'd use it and purchase the type switch that
will protrude thru it. If not, the switch can simply
become an "in line" type, lying loose. Simply cut one
of the two wires running to the 12V compressor at
least 2 or more inches from the motor, strip
approximately 1/2 inch of insulation from each of the
newly cut ends, and attach each end to one of the
switch screw terminals. If you create the "lying
loose" model, tape everything securely with electrical
tape, leaving the throw free to move.

> I'm thinking that to be on the safe
> side that we should
> probably put the slide in?;

The slide is hydraulically driven and the seals can
be inflated by starting the engine, so no need to
worry either way.

> turn off the aux comp
> breaker;

I would turn off the dash switch and the breaker as
you do not know what caused the electrical failure of
the 110V motor. A high resistance problem could
continue to feed 110V to the motor and, although a
small probability of heat/fire, why take any chance.

> open both
> the gray and black water valves; cease using the
> stair-well
> cover....

No need again, as the engine air compressor can be
used to provide any air necessary by simply starting
the engine and letting the air build.

> In the mean time I have overcome some of my early
> alzheimers and
> recalled that my air toilet wouldn't work when my 12
> volt died about
> 2 yrs. ago, so it would follow that the 2
> compressors weren't
> plumbed together as some birders have had done. I'm
> wondering how
> to do it or have it done. Do you have a diagram or
> something?

I wouldn't want to give detailed advice via the net
without seeing exactly what you have now. (BB seldom
seems to create more than one the same LOL).
Shouldn't be that costly to have knowledgeable shop
re-plumb the system for you. I'd estimate 1/2 hour or
so to determine what you now have, and another 1/2 to
1 hour to join all together plus whatever
adjustments/modifications to pressure regulators are
necessary to get all to work peacefully with one
another. Remember to advise, you are trying to
connect engine air, 110V air and 12V air so all work
every air device.

Hope this helps more than confuses.

John Suter



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