Cost of ownership

[Tom Warner]

Gardner dont get discouraged. But you do need to ask the "right"
questions if you hope to get a Bluebird that will suite you.
First can you do the majority of the work on the coach yourself ? If
you understand the mechanics such as brakes, chassis, engines etc
then you are a long way to doing it. Do you have the tools and space
to work in? Can you use a multimeter and read factory blueprints that
are available for all Bluebirds? If you can answer yes to these
questions then I would advise you to jump in and buy one for they are
not as complicated as some would have you believe. I would look for a
rust free southern coach that has not been butchered by inexperienced
maintenance. Just make sure you get someone that understands
Bluebirds and not only can work on them but can evaluate the various
systems on the coach with you. Mechanics can give you advise on the
engine and transmission but most of them are lost when it comes to
the other systems of a motorhome. One thing is in your favor now,
there are lots of bluebirds for sale and its a buyers market. Cash talks!!!
Tom Warner
Vernon Center,NY
1985 PT 40








At 11:09 PM 7/8/2006, you wrote:

>Leroy,
>I am at the stage where I must rent a motorhome and 'see if we
>like it'. This is a tough sell because the first trip is almost sure
>to be a disaster unless I do a tremendous amount of homework and
>pick the right campgrounds and the right MH etc.etc. Too bad there
>aren't any Bluebirds on the rental scene.
>Gardner
>
>--- In
>WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com,
>"jwasnewski"
> wrote:
> >
> > -Yes sir I understand. I have been there. In my case the wife was
> > the driving force to buy a motor home. She didn't think I would
>like
> > it---for once she was wrong-----LOL >please
> > do not wake her up.
> >
> > Leroy Eckert
> > 1990 WB-40
> > Niceville, FL
> >
> >
> >
> > -- In
> WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com,
> "gcyeaw" wrote:
> > >
> > > Leroy,
> > > I have a lot of work to do before I can get the DW to weigh in
>on
> > > the plan. Oh,I could probably go ahead and do it on my own, but
> > then
> > > I would become a 'full timer", alone, with half my income.
> > >
> > > You know the old expression about divorce.
> > > When you are married you get up in the morning, leave the
>house
> > > and kiss your wife good by.
> > > When you get divorced, you get up in the morning, leave your
> > wife
> > > and kiss your house good by!
> > >
> > > Gardner
> > > --- In
> WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com,
> "Leroy Eckert"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Well Gardner:
> > > >
> > > > Come on man, jump on in with the rest of us. You will be happy
> > you
> > > purchased the ol school bus. Just look for the best physical
> > > specimen before you buy.
> > > >
> > > > Side note----the wife wanted a Prevost. She said the Bluebird
> > > looked like a school bus. I said, you have traveled many a
>mile
> > in
> > > a school bus and you are still here. Now---I cannot get her out
>of
> > > the thing.
> > > >
> > > > You will love a Bird. It is a lifestyle.
> > > >
> > > > Leroy Eckert
> > > > 1990 WB-40
> > > > Niceville, FL
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: gcyeaw
> > > > To:
> WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 7:47 PM
> > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mike, Leroy, I can't disagree that if all I wanted was an
>RV,
> > > then
> > > > buying a new or slightly used motorhome would be the way to
>go.
> > > When
> > > > I saw an older Bluebird, it just looked so great. It was a
>true
> > > > classic with character and that is the attraction. It
>certainly
> > > > isn't the wisest investment if all you look at is the
>dollars.
> > > There
> > > > has to be a return in the enjoyment and satisfaction of
>caring
> > > for
> > > > and reviving such a machine.
> > > >
> > > > The reason I ask questions is to make sure I am going in
>with
> > my
> > > > eyes wide open. The more I learn the better I will be able
>to
> > > make a
> > > > wise choice when purchasing. And along the way I am meeting
>new
> > > > poeple on the forum, so it's already showing some reward.
> > > >
> > > > Gardner
> > > >
> > > > --- In
> WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com,
> "Leroy Eckert"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike:
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree with you. When we purchased our bird we planned
>for
> > > > deferred maintenance. I guess if we knew the costs of owning
> > > these
> > > > beautiful machines up front we could become consultants and
> > > charge
> > > > $200.00/hr. Then we could be sued for misrepresentation.
>It's a
> > > > crazy world.
> > > > >
> > > > > Leroy Eckert
> > > > > 1990 WB-40
> > > > > Niceville, FL
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Mike Hohnstein
> > > > > To:
> WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 12:49 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Uh, you sure a new class C wouldn't be a better choice?
> > Trying
> > > > to see the future with an antique vehicle is very irrational.
> > > > > MH
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: gcyeaw
> > > > > To:
> WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 11:54 AM
> > > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership
> > > > >
> > > > > James,
> > > > > Thanks for your data. There seems to be some controversy
>over
> > > > the
> > > > > level 2 maintenance cost, but based on an average speed of
> > say
> > > > 30
> > > > > mph, that's 60,000 miles in 2000 hours. So if it's $800 or
> > > $1200
> > > > > it's not much different spread out over that mileage/time.
> > Not
> > > > > knowing the cost of adding a swing radiator, it would seem
>to
> > > > pay
> > > > > for itself on the first broken belt or hose. I imagine
>that
> > > > removing
> > > > > the dog house and putting down a protective runner before
> > > > heading in
> > > > > for service might also save some labor and probably please
> > the
> > > > > service tech as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In
>WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com,
>"orbitalsolutions"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Gardner, here are some actual maintence costs for the
>model
> > > > > of 'Bird
> > > > > > that you are looking for.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you take the 'Bird to an authorized Cat Center for
>oil
> > > and
> > > > > filter
> > > > > > changes it will cost $280.00 -- This will include all of
> > > your
> > > > oil
> > > > > > and fuel filters, a complete chassie lube and Cat brand
> > > motor
> > > > > oil.
> > > > > > Of course they do all the work, you watch them and start
> > the
> > > > bus
> > > > > > when needed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Here are the parts cost:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 16 Qts. 15/40 Cat -- $34.40
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2 - 1R-0713 -------- $11.20
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1 - 1P-0808 -------- $2.46
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1 - 1R-0750 -------- $11.88
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1 - 8N9803 --------- $20.10
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Total parts cost is $80.04 -- so, you can save two
>hundered
> > > > bucks
> > > > > > here if you do it yourself. This is a once a year task
>for
> > > > most
> > > > > > folks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tires, every five years between $2200 and $3000
>depending
> > on
> > > > Tire
> > > > > > Brand.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cat PM level 2 Maintainence -- every 2000 hours or
>10.000
> > > > gallons
> > > > > of
> > > > > > fuel -- Costs $790 at a certified Cat Center and
>includes
> > > > > > everything. This service also includes the above listed
> > oil,
> > > > > filter
> > > > > > and lube service.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1) All new hoses and belts
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2) Performance Analysis report
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3) Steam clean engine
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 4) Valve lash adjustment
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 5) cooling system service (flush and clean)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That is pretty much your ongoing maintenience stuff. You
> > can
> > > > also
> > > > > > figure on a transmission service every thirty thousand
> > miles
> > > > with
> > > > > a
> > > > > > new filter and fluid for about $175.00 including labor.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That's the stuff you can count on doing and what it
> > actually
> > > > > costs.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hope this helps.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > James
> > > > > > 78FC33SB "Old School"
> > > > > > Orange Lake, FL
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In
>WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com,
>"orbitalsolutions"
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hello, Gardner.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The biggest factor in the cost of ownership of a 25
>year
> > > > old, or
> > > > > > > older 'Bird, lies in the condition of the bus that you
> > buy.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Remember we are talking about older buses here and no
>two
> > > > are
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > same. You will find "project buses" on the market that
> > may
> > > > need
> > > > > > > everything replaced on them from the motor and
> > electronics
> > > > to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > fridge and carpet ect. However, from time to time, a
>very
> > > > nice
> > > > > > > highly updated example will be offered for sale that
>will
> > > > need
> > > > > > next
> > > > > > > to nothing.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Obviously the cost of ownership will be much higher on
> > > > > a "project
> > > > > > > bus" than on a Cheery example with newer motor and
> > > > everything
> > > > > else
> > > > > > > in the bus having been already updated and in good
> > working
> > > > order.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I guess my point is to buy your bus wisely! The
>project
> > > bus
> > > > at
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > rock bottom price that needs everying replaced will
>not
> > be
> > > > your
> > > > > > best
> > > > > > > value. Rather, find a bus that has had on-going care
>by
> > > > folks
> > > > > who
> > > > > > > were enthusiastic owners.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Take my bus for example ... the motor is about 4 years
> > old
> > > > with
> > > > > > > 15,000 miles on it. At the time the motor was replaced
>so
> > > > were
> > > > > > all
> > > > > > > pumps, fan assembly even the main started motor. All
> > belts
> > > > and
> > > > > > > hoses are two years old. Trojan batteries less than a
> > year
> > > > > old.
> > > > > > > Twin 55 amp Iota charges less than a year old. Xantrex
> > > pure
> > > > > sine-
> > > > > > > wave inverter less than a year old. High deffenition
> > > Direct
> > > > TV
> > > > > > > system less than a yera old. 27" Samsung LCD TV less
>than
> > > a
> > > > > year
> > > > > > > old. Refridgerator about 4 years old. AC units about 3
> > > years
> > > > > > old.
> > > > > > > Roof deck rebedded, refastened and painted less than a
> > > year
> > > > > ago.
> > > > > > > Polished Aluminum wheels that you can comb your hair
>in.
> > > New
> > > > > > carpet
> > > > > > > about 2 years ago. I could go on and on, but you get
>my
> > > > point.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If I were to sell my bus tomorrow I could get around
>25
> > to
> > > > 27
> > > > > > > thousand.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now think about that "project bus" that has been
>sitting
> > > > behind
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > barn for 8 years before someone pulled it out,
>polished
> > it
> > > > up
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > hung a for sale sign on it. These are two very
>different
> > > > > pictures
> > > > > > > arn't they? Certainly you would experience a very
> > > different
> > > > > cost
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > ownewship betweeen the above examples. Now you may be
> > able
> > > > to
> > > > > buy
> > > > > > > the project bus for 16 thousand bucks, but get ready
>to
> > > > spend
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > much again, and more, to make it into a good looking
> > > > reliable
> > > > > > runner.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So shop wisely, and buy the best bus you can find in
>your
> > > > price
> > > > > > > range.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Good Luck.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > James
> > > > > > > 78FC33SB "Old School"
> > > > > > > Orange Lake, FL (Mid-Eightys, total over cast and
>raining)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In
> WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com,
> "gcyeaw"
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have asked other questions on this forum and I do
> > > > > appreciate
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > responses I have received. I have been building a
> > > > spreadsheet
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > try
> > > > > > > > to estimate the real cost of owning a vintage
>Bluebird.
> > > I
> > > > love
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > look and would enjoy repairing/restoring the systems
>at
> > > my
> > > > > > leisure
> > > > > > > > prior to retirement.
> > > > > > > > The price range I am looking at is under $30,000 for
>a
> > > > 1984
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > older FC 33 TO 35. Given that price range I would
> > expect
> > > > to
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > > lots of small things to fix. Also given the age, I
> > would
> > > > > expect
> > > > > > > > higher incidence of failure in in basic
>engine/transmit
> > > > > > > ion/chassis
> > > > > > > > systems over say, a 10 year time span..
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Would it be reasonable to estimate $700/year for
> > routine
> > > > > > > > maintenance and $1000/year for unplanned maintenance
> > > > averaged
> > > > > > over
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > ten year time span? (assuming I don't need an engine
> > > > rebuild)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I am really trying to determine the value as the
>clock
> > > > > ticks
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > 20 to 25 year old coaches. They may be well built,
>but
> > > so
> > > > was
> > > > > I
> > > > > > 40
> > > > > > > > years ago!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Gardner
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>