Low sulfur fuel and additives

[one_dusty_hoot]

Mike,
<snip> "There are those that actually try things and those that talk
about things, I take the former path."

Have you ever tried running a gallon of Kerosene to 15 gallons of
diesel to prevent anti-geling in cold weather?

Have you pre-heated diesel piped around an exhaust system to burn in
a carbuerator?
Curious bob janes, greenville, sc


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
<MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote:
>
> Believe what you want folks, I'm a cynic and choose to stay with
product my simple mind can accept. On the other hand I do have a
couple of spare engines on the pallet racking in the shop so I might
be a little more cavalier than most. Then there is the issue of
accepting some companies claims about a cheap readily available
solution at the expense of their fancy proprietary snake oil. Not a
surprise they would discredit the notion. We should remember that
diesels were invented and developed with vegetable oil in mind as a
fuel and they are a true multi fuel engine. There are those that
actually try things and those that talk about things, I take the
former path.
> One other thing, most of the forum have 3208s or 2 stroke Detroits,
good old engines that run on good old fuels. I like that black
smoke. If I were using a state of the art 07emmission bad to the
bone catalytic equipped new fangled power plant, I might be a little
more concerned about fuel additives.
> MH
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tom Warner
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 6:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Low sulfur fuel and additives
>
>
> Mike you are right this discussion has been around for a long
time
> but appears to not be based on fact. Why would anyone want to add
> automatic transmission fluid to their expensive diesel engine
without
> testing to prove that it will not harm the engine in any way?
Forum
> members may want to read these and then decide.
> http://www.diamonddiesel.com/fueladditives/ffaq-2.html
>
> Can automatic transmission fluid (ATF be added to the diesel fuel
to
> increase lubricity and to help clean engine deposits?
>
> It is not a good practice and likely will cause far more problems
> than it could solve. Using ATF in this way is something of
an "old
> truckers tale" and has been used on everything from Volkswagens
to
> Class 8 trucks. Another erroneous strategy is to add old or new
> engine oil for lubricity. The problem with these "additives" is
they
> are specifically designed to resist high temperatures and
burning. As
> a result, if they are added to diesel fuel they leave behind ash,
> heavy metals, and other deposits that can easily cause costly
damage
> to fuel injectors and other sensitive engine components. The best
> practice is to use quality diesel fuel additives like Stanadyne's
> Performance Formula. They are designed to clean and lubricate
engine
> components without leaving behind residues that can be hazardous
to
> your engine's health. The bottom line is, don't add anything that
is
> not specifically designed to be combusted in the engine.
>
> http://dieselfuelsystems.com/faq.asp
> Can I use ATF (automatic transmission fluid) as a lubricant in my
fuel?
> Since October 1993, some diesel end-users have tried adding
automatic
> transmission fluid (ATF) to diesel fuel to improve the fuel's
> lubricity. According to the U.S. Army's quarterly fuel and
lubricant
> bulletin (March 1994), laboratory testing using the Ball-on-
cylinder
> lubricity evaluation (BOCLE) had shown that the addition of ATF
to a
> low sulfur fuel does not improve the fuel's lubricity rating.
> Moreover, the presence of ATF in fuel can adversely affect other
> performance properties of diesel fuel.
>
> Tom Warner
> vernon center,ny
> 1985 PT 40
>
> At 07:06 PM 12/5/2006, you wrote:
> >Lee,
> >
> >This has been discussed on many forums recently. Basically as I
> >understand it, it summarizes as this: the new ULSD fuel has less
> >lubricity, less aromatics and less fuel efficiency.
> >
> >Less lubricity for the older engines (defined in this case as
> >pre-2007) means you *will* need to find a good additive package.
One
> >inexpensive way to add lubricity is to add plain old ATF
(automatic
> >transmission fluid) at each fill up. I have seen many different
> >estimates of how much, everywhere from 1qt to 1gal per 100
gallons of
> >fuel. Mike H., one of the forum's resident diesel gurus, even
> >mentioned up to 5% ATF, which seems pretty high to me. Check with
> >truck stops to see if any commercial additive packages for the
ULSD
> >have hit their shelves yet. While there are claims that fuel
> >manufacturers have added additional lubricity additive packages
to the
> >ULSD, one of our Lone Star Birds members who owns a heavy diesel
> >repair shop has said fuel pump manufacturers were recommending
adding
> >lubricity additives even with the previous LSD fuel or they
would not
> >warrant the pumps. In any event, it seems clear that you will
need a
> >lubricity agent to be safe.
> >
> >Less aromatics means less seal swelling which may translate into
fuel
> >leaks on some engines. A high pressure fuel leak on a hot engine
is
> >something I plan to keep a good eye out for when I have to start
> >buying the ULSD (still have LSD available around here so far in
spite
> >of deadlines). I have heard rumors that some Mercedes and Cummins
> >forums have already reported fuel leaks as a problem, but that
could
> >be more good old internet urban legends than fact. Find a
discussion
> >group specific to your engine, but watch your individual engine
to be
> >sure.
> >
> >Less fuel efficiency in the neighborhood of 1.2% has been
reported
> >(see
> >http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collec...comm/info-
notices/2006/in200622.pdf)
> > At my fuel inefficiency of about 5-5.5mpg, a 1.2% decrease
appears to
> >be rounding error from my standpoint and something I can't much
fret
> >over. Points one and two are much more significant to me in
terms of
> >potentially disasterous results and long term engine wear.
> >
> >Something that has not been reported or discussed on the forums
is how
> >the new EPA laws have also affected lubricating oils. The new
> >"CJ"-rated diesel engine oil spec was specifically designed for
the
> >2007 ULSD engines. It also has reduced sulfur as well as
phosphorous
> >and sulfated ash which helps stabilize the oil's TBN (total base
> >number), acts as a lubricity agent and provides alkalinity to
> >counteract acid formation during combustion. My understanding is
that
> >oil manufacturers can not maintain the TBN with current additive
> >packages. All of this taken together may result in reduced
ability to
> >neutralize blow-by which creates more sulpheric acid which in
turn
> >creates corrosion, more deposits which could clog piston rings
and
> >cause cylinder wall scuffing, less total wear protection for the
> >engine, etc, etc...... While oil ratings are generally rated as
> >backwards compatible (CI vs. CD, etc.), I noted some engine oil
> >manufacturers recommending to use the CJ oils only in the new
(2007+)
> >heavy duty engines and stick with the older rated oils for older
heavy
> >duty diesel engines. In my opinion, you really need to be sure
you
> >are sticking with a CI rated oil for older (pre-2007) engines. As
> >time goes on, and the over the road fleets mature into a
predominance
> >of 2007+ engines, the older oil formulations will probably be
harder
> >to come by.
> >
> >Just my understanding. Not a fuel or oil manufacturer, but grew
up in
> >the fuel distribution business and have maintained an interest
in what
> >is really going in my engines.
> >
> >FWIW, etc, etc....
> >
> >Mike Bulriss
> >1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> >San Antonio, TX
> >
> >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Lee Davis"
wrote:
> > >
> > > I have a 95 BMC with the 300 Cummins diesel engine. I am full
time now
> > > on the West Coast and of course all you can get now is the
new fuel.
> > > Should I be adding something when I fill up or is it OK for
the older
> > > engines? If I should be using an additive, what is
recommended and
> > > where do you get it?
> > >
> > > Lee Davis
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>