buyer beware

[bubblerboy64]

Gregory, Very interesting post! Point well taken. However, my
interpretation of this even as a buyer is a little different. I
would hope for full discloser and if I got that I would be happy
(wouldn't we all?). I would never expect a warranty of any type on a
vehicle of this type. If one was offered then I would assume this was
also "covered" by the price paid. I can see the seller hammered down
into the dirt by the buyer and then before the check is written being
ask for a 3 month 5K warranty. Well, it is all negotiable !! If I was
selling I'd never offer a warranty and I would never expect it as a
buyer. I'd rather get the BB for the best price and take me chance.
But again others may feel differently.

I understand your point however. Long hours of sales talk "bragging
up" the vehicle followed by the ubiquitous "no warranty expressed or
implied" Does take a bit of the wind out of the "sails" pitch. John






>
> Probably a nice bus and like your brother, probably a great person.
I
> wonder if the words that create the confidence and fade the
anxieties
> in those few short hours are followed up by "No warranty express
or
> implied, as-is"
>
> I sold a 95 class 8 truck with a second 5,000 warranty. I was
> confident in the condition and backed it up by agreeing to pay for
> the second 5,000. of repair on any single failure for the first 2
> years. There is no reason anyone should believe anyone who ends a
> confidence disortation with a disclosure.
> GregoryO'Connor
> 94ptromolandCa
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Miller"
> wrote:
> >
> > Thank-you Mike for the positive assessment of my coach.
> >
> > John, I've only briefly scanned this thread but it appears as if
> > you're in a quandry as to the value of a restored FC vs.
the 'deal'
> > of a PT in original condition for the same price. You're also
> > concerned with misrepresentations and proper documentation.
> >
> > What I would offer you is that to perform all the necessary
> > rennovations on a complicated coach like a Wanderlodge requires
an
> > enormous amount of personal time. Even if not doing the actual
> work,
> > it requires time to ensure someone is doing it correctly. These
> > coaches were built to a very high standard, and shoddy
workmanship
> > simply won't do. Like wearing plaid with stripes, the clashing
in
> > workmanship and quality standards jumps right out at even a
casual
> > observer if it's not done properly. While they're not difficult
to
> > work on, it's a bit more time consuming than most shops want to
> deal
> > with because of accessing the various mechanicals.
> >
> > What I have on the market (when Jeff finally gets around to
> changing
> > the price on his website for me) is a coach I absolutely adore.
I
> > planned on using this coach for the next dozen years at least,
and
> > had thoughts of taking it on grandious excursions with my wife
and
> > boys every chance I could. Every time I worked on a system, I
> > considered that I never wanted to worry about that system again,
so
> I
> > cut no corners. I took my time, I waited for the right parts, I
> > upgraded or changed things so the same failures wouldn't occur
> again,
> > and I documented everything so I would remember when I hit 50
what
> I
> > had done when I was 38 on it.
> >
> > I marveled at the engineering of things, but also realized that
> > better parts now exist. Where necessary, I changed things for
the
> > better. There are more things to do, there always will be. But
> the
> > major items are done. The things that could nag at me on a hot
day
> > while climbing a mountain, the things that could ruin my
vacation,
> > they're done. I won't have any of that. Major breakdowns aren't
> > part of a family vacation.
> >
> > I don't have to sell my coach, but the reality is that my wife
and
> > kids want to vacation with our FAMILY friends, and those friends
> > don't have big, beautiful Wanderlodges, they rent cabins and
condos
> > together.
> >
> > So I would say my coach is a great deal. I've got every bit of
mid
> > 30's into it. Which makes my meticulous and careful labor,
> hundreds
> > of hours of it, free. I'm offsetting the labor with the fact
that
> I
> > have enjoyed several family trips with it and those memories are
> > worth it.
> >
> > The whole thing was an experiment under the 'hindsight 85' rule
> which
> > states that at age 85, one should be able to look back and laugh
> > about things ventured, not regret having never tried. So I
bought
> > it. I labored on it, hoping to keep it forever, and fill it with
> > memories, but in the end it makes no sense to keep it if it won't
> be
> > getting used.
> >
> > I think $38,500 is a steal considering the documented meticulous
> > upgrades and renovations in this coach. We'll see...
> >
> > I read this and other forums when I have a few moments and there
> are
> > always folks who are exasperated by the effort to fix or trouble
> > shoot a problem. If you were to research my posts you'd find
that
> I
> > rarely posted like that, if ever. I love a good challenge and I
> > enjoy the opportunity to disassemble something to make it work
> > better. This coach has that philosophy poured all over it.
> >
> > If someone is looking for a good coach to get a hold of, I'd say
> this
> > is the one for the following reasons. I don't suddenly need
money,
> > it's paid for. I didn't just have a major life change requiring
me
> > to sell it, I'm not sick and tired of it, I'm not being told to
get
> > rid of it, I've enjoyed owning it, I'm a Wanderlodge enthusiast,
> and
> > more. It's all positive here, just time to move in another
> direction.
> >
> > I'm really just looking for the right guy to have a smooth
> > transaction with. If you want to come see this coach, come on
by.
> > I'll set you up and leave you with the books until you call me to
> > come on back. Stay the night if you want to. I'm confident that
> in
> > a few short hours, your anxieties will fade and you'll want to
take
> > her home.
> >
> > Gary Miller
> > 83 FC 33
> > Mi8lwaukee area - For Sale
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "bubblerboy64"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Leroy, Your comments seem logical to me. That means one of two
> > > things: You are correct or we are both deluding ourselves; not
> > > certain which. I guess I must be getting serious I put my
> trailer
> > up
> > > on eBay to see what happens. I can afford to buy the bird and
> sell
> > > the trailer later but the wife has already ask me about were I
> > expect
> > > to park it. I have a lot to learn but one thing I have
concluded
> it
> > > pays to keep her happy. So we'll see what happens over the next
> > > couple weeks. Thanks again to all who have taken an interest in
> me
> > > and my "issues" John Heckman
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > A pre-owned H2 Hummer about 35K comes standard with GPS,
moving
> > map
> > > display, DVD, leather seats, electronics inverter and room for
a
> > > large tent. It will fit in most any campground. No need for a
> > toad.
> > > Missing optional items include, bed, hot and cold running
water,
> in
> > > motion Sat TV, kitchen, convection oven, bathroom and other
> > important
> > > amenities. Looks to me like 35K for a top quality FC is a
steal.
> > > >
> > > > Leroy Eckert
> > > > 1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
> > > > Niceville, FL
> > > > On Panama City Beach-Folks in the tents are hot---forcast
high92
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Mike Hohnstein
> > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:35 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: buyer beware
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Take heart!! Gary Miller has an exceptional example in your
> > price
> > > range. Go to http://www.millercoachworks.com FC33, ignore the sold and
> 47k
> > > asking price, it's on the market for mid 30's and a real deal
at
> > that
> > > figure.
> > > > MH
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: bubblerboy64
> > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 7:32 PM
> > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: buyer beware
> > > >
> > > > Mike, That's the kind of information I need to hear. I was
> > > looking at
> > > > some older NA coaches and it seemed to me that $30k might
do
> > it.
> > > > Apparently not? I am just trying to gather together an idea
> of
> > > what
> > > > is involved. I was thinking that perhaps paying $20 or
about
> > that
> > > and
> > > > figuring another $10k might do it. I am not going to be
able
> to
> > > > invest $60K. I just would not get my moneys worth for what
I
> > > would
> > > > be using the coach for. I am not looking for a 10 out of
10.
> > But
> > > I
> > > > was thinking that for $30K a guy could have a very
> presentable
> > BB
> > > > which was solid. If you are telling me you bought the best
> > you've
> > > > seen and still needed to spend another $45k doing the labor
> > > yourself
> > > > I pretty well better forget it. JEH
> > > > >
> > > > > I started out with a "fixer" for 15k. Rear bath FC.
> > > > > I wuz lucky, it's the cleanest FC I've ever seen, and I
> have
> > > > inspected a few. Bought it on the internet from on line
pics.
> > > Blown
> > > > engine. Figured I fix it up a little and flip it. It turned
> out
> > > to
> > > > be so nice, decided I never find a better one.
> > > > > Now that I am putting the final touches on the charge air
> > > cooler
> > > > install, not to mention the exterior restoration, the
change
> > over
> > > to
> > > > 24.5s the unending chassis electrical issues I'm getting
real
> > > close
> > > > to $60k and not much of that is farmed out labor. I did all
> the
> > > > heavy mechanical work and most of the inside repairs, water
> > > system,
> > > > lighting, vents, etc.
> > > > > Depends on how you choose to spend the money, most of the
> > good
> > > > deals are when somebody dies. It pays to be a buzzard.
> > > > > Cold but true.
> > > > > Mike Hohnstein
> > > > > Germantown, WI
> > > > > 83 FC 35rb
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: bubblerboy64
> > > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 1:48 PM
> > > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: buyer beware
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > And again my position as a buyer. My first preference
would
> > be
> > > a
> > > > > completely "ready to go" older FC rear bath coach needing
> > > > nothing. At
> > > > > a price which is "fair". And I have seen some likely
> > prospects.
> > > > > Coaches which have had leather interior and repaints
which
> > have
> > > > > pushed the asking prices into the range of the pushers.
See
> > > > that's
> > > > > the problem. I've fooled around with antique car
> restorations
> > > and
> > > > > this is so similar. A restored vehicle is not likely to
> sell
> > > for
> > > > the
> > > > > cost of the restoration. I feel some sympathy for the
> seller
> > > when
> > > > > you know what he has invested to get it right but as a
> buyer
> > > > paying
> > > > > for his restoration just doesn't work either. So what's a
> > nice
> > > > coach
> > > > > like I am looking for really worth? Well, it's worth
> exactly
> > > the
> > > > > price negotiated between the seller and the buyer and
there
> > is
> > > > the
> > > > > rub. There are a couple real nice newerFC buses on the
Bill
> > > Board
> > > > > right now with prices from 50 to 60K. So are they in
> > > competition
> > > > with
> > > > > the pushers (?) I can't say. And what does that tell you
> > about
> > > > the
> > > > > older FC's. One fellow has a 1975 listed for 30K. I e-
> mailed
> > > him
> > > > > see what he comes back with. From what I have been able
to
> > > figure
> > > > to
> > > > > this point his bus would have to be a ready to go coach
> plus
> > > > some.
> > > > > But on the other hand as a buyer I could see that a guy
> could
> > > > easily
> > > > > spend $15k and then in a short time spend an additional
> $15K
> > to
> > > > get
> > > > > it right. Price is certainly not cost. Not to belabor a
> > point.
> > > If
> > > > > you have something worth the money do the work required
to
> > > prove
> > > > it.
> > > > > I could see spending $30 for a really nicely restored
older
> > > coach
> > > > but
> > > > > it would have to be exactly what I want with the proof
> there
> > > of.
> > > > So
> > > > > I guess what I am saying is that I personally am not
> looking
> > > for
> > > > a
> > > > > fixer upper. I can do some repairs but frankly its not my
> > idea
> > > of
> > > > > fun. Certainly others would feel differently. JEH
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 5/4/07, davidkerryedwards wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hence, the market for older Wanderlodge's with some
> > needed
> > > > > repairs will
> > > > > > > probably always be a little more healthy than for
> > > refurbished
> > > > > coaches.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kerry,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I agree to an extent. Personally, I think most people
> would
> > > > rather
> > > > > > have a refurbished coach - I know I looked for one that
> was
> > > > > advertised
> > > > > > as not having any problems. The disconnect between
buyer
> > and
> > > > seller
> > > > > > comes in price: Most buyers aren't willing to pay a
> premium
> > > for
> > > > this
> > > > > > work.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In my search, I found that people were tending to
> > > sell "average"
> > > > > > coaches in a certain price range - what I
> > considered "market
> > > > price".
> > > > > > Then there were the occasional "refurbished" coaches
> where
> > > folks
> > > > > > wanted twenty grand above "market price". I wasn't
going
> to
> > > pay
> > > > > that.
> > > > > > In fact, I wasn't going to pay "market price" for a
coach
> > > with
> > > > a lot
> > > > > > of problems, either.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As a buyer, here's how it worked for me: A good coach
> with
> > > > nothing
> > > > > > wrong commands full market value, perhaps slightly
more.
> In
> > > my
> > > > > range I
> > > > > > identified mid eighties PT-40s and the market value I
> came
> > to
> > > > was
> > > > > > about $50,000. Now, I wasn't going to pay full market
> value
> > > for
> > > > a
> > > > > > coach with a lot of issues. Something that needed major
> > work
> > > I
> > > > might
> > > > > > have paid $35k for, but sellers still thought they
could
> > get
> > > > $50k.
> > > > > On
> > > > > > the flip side, many "perfect" coaches, folks were
wanting
> > > $80k.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When all was said and done I did find a very good coach
> > with
> > > > almost
> > > > > no
> > > > > > problems (few things here and there, but they all have
> > those)
> > > > right
> > > > > > near what I considered to be fair market value. This
> tells
> > me
> > > > that
> > > > > > those wanting $80k for their similar coaches are high,
as
> > are
> > > > those
> > > > > > wanting $50k for something that needs $20k worth of
work
> to
> > > > make it
> > > > > > half as nice as mine.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, there's my two cents worth.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Ryan
> > > > > > '86 PT-40 8V92
> > > > > > Tri-Cities, WA
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
>