Now Oil Filters, was Re: 93 PT-40 for sale in Nashville

[Leroy Eckert]

Damn, that sucks! BB disease I guess.

Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
Dahlonega, GA
Royale Conversion

bumpersbird wrote:

That was all done still malfunctioning.New gauges & senders/sensors
from BB second time bought from telflex direct third time from some
guy in Calif.
Kurt Horvath 95 Pt-42 WLWB

--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", Leroy Eckert
...> wrote:
>

> A couple of ideas on your gauges. Mine work great and are very
accurate as per my VMSpc.
> Go to ww2.tflx.com and you may find the answer. Senders/sensors
cannot be installed with pipe dope because it causes false readings.
Make certain you have the correct sender because if a PO installed
the wrong one for the gauge it will not register correctly. Find the
main ground for the gauges probably in the lower load center and
check the integrity.
>
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
> Dahlonega, GA
> Royale Conversion
>
> bumpersbird ...> wrote: Oh
great Mike thanks for keeping me in the loop on this one.
>
> All I can tell you is I spent $1,800.00 bucks to service my coach
> with everything you can do to a 95 PT-42 with a series 60 and an
> Allison 6 speed.
>
> I
haven't done the math by hand to determine mileage, but I always
do
> when I fill her up. The results to date on theVMSpc are very
> accurate.
>
> What is accurate is the coach is running better than ever, my
> daughter even mentioned it to me on our way home last Sunday.
>
> What isn't accurate are my coach gauges. I spent lots of time and
$'S
> trying to get them to function correctly and I finally gave up on
> them. That's why I installed the Silverleaf VMSpc. Now I would not
> drive without it. I'll go out on a limb here and say I would trust
> the Detroit DDEC sooner than I would trust the old steam gauges.
>
> An example the odometer on the coach, the odometer on the VMSpc
and
> the trip meter, have never reconciled with the same milage. The
VMSpc
> hour meter and the engine hour meter don't match. The only gauges

I'm
> sure are correct are the Speedo, Tach, and Volts. They read the
same.
>
> Oh, by the way, I'm busy fantasizing over better things than fuel
> mileage
>
> Kurt Horvath
> 95PT-42 WLWB
>
> --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "mbulriss" <mbulriss@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Using the "I don't believe it until I see it" logic, then there
is
> no
> > way Kurt got a 1 mpg increase after changing to the synthetic
tranny
> > fluid, repardless of wht his VMSpec says.
> >
> > In that same vein then, Alvie can't possibly have clean oil in a
> > diesel after 3,000 miles. Sorry, but synthetic users know that
you
> > need very good oil filters to keep it clean or you are just
wasting
> >
money. Oil carries dirt, filters keep the oil clean.
> >
> > To read *facts*, go to:
> > http://www.mobiloil.com/usa-
>
english/motoroil/other_products/mobil_1_extended_performance_oil_filte
> rs.aspx
> > and read their FAQs
> >
> > or the Donaldson filter site, they make filters, not oil:
> > http://www.donaldson.com/en/engine/lube/lube.html
> > and
> > http://www.donaldson.com/en/engine/extendedservice/index.html
> >
> > or even to the Amsoil filter site:
> > https://www.amsoil.com/filtration/index.aspx#
> >
> > When you visit those three sites and look around, you will have
> > visited the 3 best oil filter providers IMO. By the way, the
> 6V&8V92
> > oil filter takes a Donaldson Endurance ELF7670 or a regular
> P551670.
> > Choose wisely.
> >
> > Yes, you can keep the oil clean for 3000 miles like Alvie
claims,
> but
> > not with pleated paper filters.
> >
> > Mike Bulriss
> > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> > San Antonio, TX
> >
> >
> > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "ronmarabito2002"
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm
having a hard time believing your story of clear oil in
the
> 8V92
> > > after 3000 miles. The nature of the beast is to generate soot
and
> > > that is what turns the oil black. Show me some laboratory oil
> > > analysis reports and I might believe you.
> > >
> > > We all tend to get the results we want.
> > >
> > > R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > >
> > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "whynotam"

> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Mike and all,
> > > >
> > > > I apologize for starting this huge controversy but quite
> frankly I
> > > > think you are 100% correct in stating that oil technology
has
> >
> > improved to the point where Detroit Diesels suggestions are
way
> > > > behind the times. I can only speak from personal experience
as
> I
> > > > don't have the oil industry back ground that Mike does but
due
> to the
> > > > fact that I have used synthetic lubricants for many years
and
> have
> > > > had very good success is the reason that I went with
Amsoil's
> > > > recommendation to use the 15W40 in our 1993 8V92. The engine
> oil
> > > > consumption
> > > > dropped from 1 quart every 200 miles to around 1 quart per
600
> miles.
> > > > With straight 40W Shell Rotella the oil was thin and black
> within the
> > > > first 500 miles but with the Amsoil it was still clear after
> 3000
> > > >
miles same as in my Duramax Chevy after 7500 miles. Exhaust
> smoke was
> > > > also considerably reduced on the 8V92. Use what you like but
be
> > > > assured there are definite advantages to the newer synthetic
> > > > formulations. My genes also seem to still be working fine
> > > >
> > > > Best to all,
> > > > Alvie Miller
> > > > 1993 WLWB on Amsoil 15W40
> > > > Arthur IL
> > > >
> > > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "mbulriss"
<mbulriss@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey Alvie Miller - I rest my case!
> > > > >
> > > > > Pete, aren't you the same person that once said *ALL* DD
> engines
> > > > > require straight 40W? I also remember you later said
jokingly
> > > > > something like "you are an old guy and all real DDs are 2-
> cycle" to
> > > > you.
> > > > >
> > > > > I guess I'm pressing my luck by not having any lubrication
> related
> > > > > failures,... you know, having used Amsoil since 1979 in
> general and
> > > > in
> > > > > my Birds since early 1997. Lots of other members are also
> using
> > > > Amsoil
> > > > > and other synthetics in their Birds.
> > > > >
> > > > > I know DD updated their 93K124 document on "ENGINE
> REQUIREMENTS —
> > > > > LUBRICATING OIL, FUEL AND FILTERS" in 2005, but that
update
> was
>
> > > mainly
> > > > > to update to reflect the newest API CI-4 rating. That
> document is
> > > > > almost entirely about the new series engines now and only
> mentions
> > > > the
> > > > > older 2-cycles by re-printing what has always been there.
In
> their
> > > > > defense, I can't imagine why DD would spend $$$$$$$$
> certifying the
> > > > > new breed of oils for an obsolete engine, but isn't it odd
> that they
> > > > > certify and recommend multi-weight synthetics and dino-
based
> oils
> > > > for
> > > > > the newer engines?
> > > > >
> > > > > Just for the record, all my DD manuals I have ever had
always
> said
> > > > you
> >
> > > can use 15W-40 in colder climates, but recommend to change
> back to
> > > > > straight weight when temps rise to 'normal' again (above
40-
> 50F? I
> > > > > think it was). Lubricating oils have come a long way from
> when DD
> > > > > started building the 2-cycles and was actively certifying
> oils for
> > > > > them. Multi-weight dino-based oils, circa 60s and 70s, did
in
> fact
> > > > > break down incredibly fast when DD was actively building
the
> 2-
> > > > cycles
> > > > > and actively certifying oils for them. Testing proved
that
> the
> > > > > straight weight petroleum oils were much better back then
for
> shear
> > > > > strength and thermal stability.
> > >
> >
> > > > > Times change. The API standards have also evolved. The
> synthetics
> > > > > outperform petroleum based oils by a wide margin today.
The
> way I
> > > > > understand it, the current generation of 15W-40 synthetics
> pass all
> > > > > requirements for the old straight weight petroleum 40.
> (Note: Even
> > > > > Mobil's Delvac 1 5W-40 is certified for the Series 60.
And
> anything
> > > > > with 5W in it makes me shudder.)
> > > > >
> > > > > I compare the specs listed by DD against the actual specs
of
> the
> > > > oil I
> > > > > use. Since we are talking Amsoil here, they used to make
a
> > > > straight
> > > > > 40-weight diesel oil. Demand dropped to nothing, API
> standards
> > > > > changed, and now it is the 15W-40. I called and talked
with
> their
> > > > > engineers before I went to that. (As the old 2-cycles get
> retired,
> > > > and
> > > > > the market for the old straight weight oils shrinks
further,
> fewer
> > > > and
> > > > > fewer companies will even supply a straight-weight 40.)
> > > > >
> > > > > If you look at thermal stability and high shear strength,
> critical
> > > > > measurements for oil protection, the DD literature
says: "In
> 15W-40
> > > > > grade oils, a HT/HS viscosity below 3.7 centipoise (cP)
> indicates
> > > > that
> > > > > the oil will not perform as a 40
grade oil at engine
operating
> > > > > conditions." Amsoil's 15W-40 is measured at 4.4cP, well
> above DD
> > > > > minimum requirements. Checking DD Table 3.2 from their
oil
> spec for
> > > > > 40W oil, the Amsoil 15W40 that Alvie mentioned meets all
the
> > > > Kinematic
> > > > > Viscosity and the Viscosity Index requirements.
> > > > >
> > > > > Further, with the clean air acts and the decreases in
sulfur
> > > > > requirements it is becoming a lot harder for the petroleum
> based
> > > > > fluids to meet the TBN (Total Base Number) requirements of
> the old
> > > > > 2-cycles - which is listed at a range of 7-10 TBN from
the
> DD 40W
> > > > > chart. Now TBN is really a case
where bigger is better.
> Amsoil's
> > > > TBN
> > > > > is 12.1 for their 15W-40. Total Base Number measures an
oil's
> > > > > alkalinity and ability to neutralize acid using lab
testing
> (ASTM D
> > > > > 2896 or D 4739) - acid production is generally considered
bad
> for
> > > > your
> > > > > basic internal combustion engine.
> > > > >
> > > > > Finally, from the Amsoil web site:
> > > > > AMSOIL Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel & Marine Motor Oil is
> recommended
> > > > > for use in diesel engines and other applications requiring
> any of
> > > > the
> > > > > listed worldwide specifications and gasoline engines
> requiring API
> > > > SL,

> > > > > SJ, SH… or ACEA A3.
> > > > >
> > > > > * API CI-4+, CF, CF-2, SL
> > > > > * ACEA A3/B3, E2, E3, E5, E7
> > > > > * Global DHD-1
> > > > > * JASO DH-1
> > > > > * Mack EO-N Premium Plus '03
> > > > > * DDC Power Guard 93K214
> > > > > * Caterpillar ECF-1A, ECF-2
> > > > >
> > > > > Now I suppose they could be lying in print, but they
probably
> have
> > > > > lawyers to prevent them from doing that unless they
actually
> can
> > > > prove
> > > > > that they can meet those specs.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, didn't mean to bludgeon the subject. I just
wanted
> to set
> > > > the
> > > > > record straight. Newer doesn't mean bad. Otherwise the
API,
> SAE
> > > > and
> > > > > ASTM testing wouldn't keep evolving. In the old days, if
we
> got
> > > > 100k
> > > > > miles out of a car engine without a re-build it was
> fantastic. Now
> > > > > (with something at least resembling proper maintenance)
people
> > > > > regularly get upwards of 250k. I've never had a Suburban
> with under
> > > > > 300k when I got rid of it, and they were all running
good.
> Lots of
> > > > > that is due strictly to lubrication advances.
> > > > >
> > > > > FWIW,
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike Bulriss - gene pool still functioning fine
thank you
> > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"- 8V92 running that nasty old
Amsoil
> > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", PM7088@ wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The gene pool of home mechanics is purified by folks
who:
> Use
> > > > > Amsoil in 2 cycle diesels, install K&N air filters and/or
> propane
> > > > > injectors and or sill "Chips" that increase their
horsepower
> to the
> > > > > point that pistons melt.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pete
> > > > > >
> >
> > > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > > > > From: brad barton <bbartonwx@>
> > > > > > I always heard never to use anything but single-weight
oil
> on my
> > > > > 8V92..never multigrade unless in a pinch.
> > > > > > FWIW
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brad Barton 00LXiDFW bbartonwx@
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To: "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"
> > > > > > From: aamiller@
> > > > > > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:41:17 +0000
> > > > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum]
Re: 93 PT-40 for sale in
> Nashville
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do you like Amsoil also? I use the 15w40 heavy duty
Marine
> in the
> > > > > > generator as well as the 8v92 and it is doing a great
job.
> I
> > > > would
> > > > > > like to also switch the transmission fluid but haven't
got
> it
> > > > done
> > > > > > yet. I also use Amsoil in the boys two BMW's, the wife's
> van, my
> > > > 05
> > > > > > Duramax pickup and in the tractor and mowers as well.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Alvie Miller
> > > > > > 93 WLWB
> > > >
> > Arthur IL
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "mbulriss"
> <mbulriss@>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kurt,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for the update. I'm going to change mine over
to
> the
> > > > Amsoil
> > > > > > > equivalent of the Transynd, since I can get that
cheaper.
> 1MPG
> > > > > > > increase is 20%!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Mike Bulriss
> > > > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minvan"
> > > > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Mike,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I call Prevost and they told me it is Transynd by
> Castrol.
> > > > > > > >
http://www.allisontransmission.com/service/transynd.jsp
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I also had a level 3 service which replaces all
> filters. In
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > Allison 6 speed I
think there are 3 internal filters
> and of
> > > > > > course
> > > > > > > > all oil, fuel and air filters. They greased
everything
> that
> > > > could
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > grease and it also helped in the braking. I used to
get
> a
> > > > noise
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > the front brake that was called normal but it has
now
> quit.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I was told when I bought my coach that all the fluid
&
> > > > filters
> > > > > > had
> > > > > > > > been changed but I really don't know for sure. But
it
> did not
> > > > >
> perform
> > > > > > > > like it does now.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What I do know is that I'm up to 5.5 to 6 MPG from
4.5
> to 4.8
> > > > > > > > according to the SilverLeaf VMSpc.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Call it what you like, it's working for me.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Here's something to chew on. I don't know anything
> about H2O
> > > > > > helping
> > > > > > > > your fuel mileage but I know Propane injection
works.
> On a
> > > > trip
> > > > > > last
> > > > > > > > summer I was at a Flying J in S.W. KY. At the RV
> island.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A trucker in a red and white Peterbuilt pulled in
> behind me.
> > > > I
> > > > > > > > thought that to strange in itself, so I went back to
> his
> > > > truck to
> > > > > > > > tell him I was going to be there a while for fuel
and
> > > > propane.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > He told me he was after propane. I asked why and he
> said he
> > > > had a
> > > > > > > > truck with propane injection and the outfit he drove
> for was
> > > > > > testing
> > > > > > > > the system on 20 or so trucks. I asked if it was
> working and
> > > > he
> > > > > > > > professed almost 2.5 MPG up on average.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I don't know about that, but I do know the guy whom
> works on
> > > > my
> > > > > > Ford
> > > > > > > > Powerstroke has a propane fire diesel pick up that
with
> rip
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > snort, and he's getting better MPG than my truck gets
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "mbulriss"
> <mbulriss@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In
"WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > filters and the high grade transmission fluid
> really made
> > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > difference, about a mile per gallon and super
> smooth
> > > > > > shifting.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > HELLO! 1MPG from tranny fluid change!? Hey Kurt,
feel
> free
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > > expound on the tranny fluid change. Synthetic I
> assume? I
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > putting that change off for a while since the dino
> tranny
> > > > fluid
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > fresh, but for 1MPG.....
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Mike Bulriss
> > > > > > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" - in need of a quick
cheap

> 1MPG
> > > > > > upgrade
> > > > > > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In
"WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Well you can tell I've been off the web for a
> while. My
> > > > > > computers
> > > > > > > > > > were infected by a Trojan virus late in Jan. It
> took a
> > > > while
> > >
> > > and
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > new laptop to fix the problems. I lost a lot of
> files and
> > > > had
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > get
> > > > > > > > > > new credit cards. S.O.B.'s, "and I don't mean,
Some
> Other
> > > > > > Bus" So
> > > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > > > I repeat any request or post, or stuff you guys
> have
> > > > already
> > > > > > > > beaten
> > > > > > > > > > to death, forgive me.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Mike your right; I do recall seeing that coach
> listed for
> > > > a
> > > > > > while
> > > > > > > > > > now. If it's truly a good deal it won't stick
> around for
> > > > > > long.
> > > > > > > > I'll
> > > > > > > > > > go by Staley's if I have time just to look at
her.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Paul, The Indulgence is safe at home and ready
for
> this
> > > > > > weekend's
> > > > > > > > > > trip. I'm taking my daughter and 9 of her
friends
> to
> > > > > > Nashville
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > their Senior Prom. Should be Hoot!
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Bye the way my coach is not for sale, I like all
> Birds,
> > > > but
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > PT-
> > > > > > > > > > 42's are my favorite flavor, maybe a 43 would
due
> but I
> > > > would
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > go
> > > > > > > > > > to a 40 footer of any mfg. Yes you're right I'm
> spoiled!
> > > > All
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > need
> > > > > > > > > > now is a Stacker Trailer that doesn't cost as
much
> as my
> > > > > > coach,
> > > > > > > > so I
> > > > > > > > > > can load it up full of toys and its party time!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I had a full servicing done at Prevost Nashville
a
> few
> > > > months
> > > > > > ago
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > it was well worth the money. All new filters &
> fluids,
> > > > the
> > > > > > new
> > > > > > > > tranny
> > > > > > > > > > filters and the high grade transmission fluid
> really made
> > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > difference, about a mile per gallon and super
> smooth
> > > > > > shifting.
> > >
> > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > Jake is even smoother and not as radical, the
> jerking
> > > > upon
> > > > > > > > activation
> > > > > > > > > > has gone away. I'm a very happy camper. The
brakes
> were
> > > > > > checked
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > wear and a full chassis lube, headlights
adjusted
> and new
> > > > > > wiper
> > > > > > > > > > blades. She is ready to roll.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > > > > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > > > > > > > >
> > >
> > > > > > > Damn the price of fuel! Full speed ahead!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In
"WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "mbulriss"
> > > > > > <mbulriss@>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Being rather partial to green coaches, I tend
to
> watch
> > > > for
> > > > > > > > them.
> > > > > > > > > >
That
> > > > > > > > > > > one looks really good in the pictures, but it
has
> been
> > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > consignment
> > > > > > > > > > > on Staley's lot for a *long* time. I
distinctly
> > > > remember
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > (HEADLINER IN FRONT LOUNGE HAS DAMAGE AND
NEEDS
> TO BE
> > > > > > REPAIRED)
> > > > > > > > > > > comment. Odd there are no pictures of the
damage.
> As I
> > > > > > recall,
> > > > > > > > > > > someone went to see it and had posted a rather
> negative
> > > > > > > > review. I
> > > > >
> > > > > > searched for that post but can't find it right
> now.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > If someone remembers that post or went to see
the
> > > > coach,
> > > > > > please
> > > > > > > > > > update
> > > > > > > > > > > us again.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Mike Bulriss
> > > > > > > > > > > 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan" (lot's of greeeeen,
> baby)
> > > > > > > > > > > San Antonio, TX
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> --- In
> "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I ran across this coach will surfing this
> morning.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I like it but I don't know anything about
it's
> > > > history.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The link is listed below
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.staleycoach.com/48350.htm
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > > > > > > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows
> Live
> > > > >
Messenger. Get started!
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
Try it now.
>

---

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