Xantrex RV 3012 M Inverter Installation, Reinventing the wheel!

[Dorn Hetzel]

I'm absolutely planning on running the 3012 I bought while the engine is running, to provide some amount of 120VAC while driving down the road. I'm considering mounting it inside the coach in the cabinet behind the drivers seat, since that would be within two or three feet of the batteries...


Dorn Hetzel
77FC35
Hogansville, GA

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 12:22 AM, Gregory OConnor <"Gregoryoc@aol.com"> wrote:

The only time it is hot is when the engine is running. I learned

with the refer mod that moving air with a fan has little cooling

effect. replacing the air in the compartment with a fan has the most

advantage.



If you look at the inverter box that BB engineeres (BirdBrains)

installed(in my '94), it floats in the battery compartment with air

gap around the entire box. Even the material it is made of looks

like it is a special (maybe, low heat conductive) product???????I

wonder if the box by design cools with passing air as you drive or

is there a better way to move the engine heated air away from the

inverter box? I wonder if a scoop would move more air or hinder the

existing path



The "three enemies of inverters" Xantrex quote may be three enimies

of an Inverter/Charger and not necessarly of just the stand alone

inverter??????? . I wonder why BB speced units with remote

batterychargers??? and why they moved the chargers so far away. Is

it a heat issue with the chargers only??? .



if Chargers-only have the heat issue (prompting the BirdBrain move),

chargers are not worked while driving unless you drive with the

genset running, so while driving heat is of no issue with inverter

only???? It may be that you need to cut 110V input to the inverter/

chargers when the detroit is running (or InverterBox temp is too

hot) to keep the chargers from lighting up if the genset is used.



GregoryO'Connor

94pt in need of new inverter chargers.

--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "bumpersbird"

wrote:

>

> Gregg,

>

> Your probably right.

>

> I spoke with several people today, Xantrex support, Solar power

techs

> etc. after I posted my little progress report. It seems as it does

> not matter how heavy the cable is after a certain lenght the DC

side

> decreases efficance for every foot past 7' and after about 12' it

may

> not function at all. I've learned there are three enemies of an

> invertrer: 1- Moisture,2- Heat,3- Dirt

>

> I have been told that it can be done but the majority opinion is

it's

> better to keep the inverters as close to the batteries as

possible,

> even if they run hot and are in a dirty enviroment. By the way

those

> who think it's doable have not elaborated on how to do it.

>

> So I'm going to put the new units in the inverter box in the

engine

> compartment. It will be a tight fit. Moisture is not really a

> problem, perhaps condensation on the rare occasion. I will vent it

in

> some fashion, probably a couple of 130 cfm computer fans. The fans

> that I'm installing to cool the engine compartment should also

help a

> lot. I'm mounting 2 - 1650 CFM radiator fans on the right side

grill.

> The inverters are just a 10" or 12" away. I might place some sort

of

> air filter on the door in an attemp to keep the box interior

somewhat

> clean.

>

> I have 6 Lifline Batteries, they are only 24 month old and in time

> switching to something else could happen, but these will have to

die

> first, especially at $600.00 each

>

> SSSSHHHHHH_________TTTTTTTT !!!!!! There I go again, trying to

> reinvent the wheel. To be honest this was probably one of

Bluebirds

> bigger engineering screw ups. Then again maybe not the old

inverters

> were in there for 13 years.

>

> Hey on the bright side the bay with the BBQ is now metal lined,

Looks

> good and should be easier to clean.

>

> Kurt Horvath

> 95 PT-42 WLWB

> Fayetteville TN

>

>

>

> --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "Gregory OConnor"

> wrote:

> >

> > Kurt,

> > Would it be less costly and with less issues to re vamp the

heart

> > inverter box area above the batteries to make it waterproof and

may

> > be even taller????

> >

> > With L-16 I have more room under the inverter box as the top

> > battery tray was removed.

> > http://www.pbase.com/gregoryoc/image/86932717

> >

> > you can also split the inverters up?????????

> >

> >

> > GregoryO'Connor

> >

> >

> > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "bumpersbird"

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > The two inveters arrived in new sealed boxes. The RV7/GS

> > controlers

> > > arrived in as new condition, but they were in non mfg

packaging.

> > >

> > > cost to date:

> > >

> > > $1370.00 inverters.

> > > $ 305.00 controls.

> > > $ 100.00 Sheet metal and aluminum angle for lining bay.

> > >

> > > I decided that I will move the inverters into bay 3, right

side

> in

> > > place of the electric grill, from the hot, dirty, and

sometimes

> > wet

> > > inverter box in the engine compartment.

> > >

> > > After the renovations I will convert the old inverter box to

hold

> > 2

> > > more house batteries.

> > >

> > > I have removed the grill and I have lined the area with sheet

> > metal,

> > > and framed the opening with aluminum angle. I also replaced

the

> > > small angle iron mounting peices with wider aluminun braces

and

> > ran

> > > an angle support under the shelf to help support the 120+ lbs.

of

> > > weight, Overkill! When the tool box is under the shelf it does

> not

> > > move or vibrate. I will post photos shortly.

> > >

> > > There is the question of how large the wires have to be that

> > connect

> > > the invertes to the batteries. It will take appox. 115' of

cable

> > to

> > > get the job done and if you have bought heavy copper cable of

> late

> > > it's not cheep! It looks like around $10.00 a foot for 350 MCM

> > > welding cable.

> > >

> > > It is 0.970 in diameter So I am having a bit of trouble

figuring

> > out

> > > how or where to run these cables. Idealy inside the frame rail

> > would

> > > be my first choice, but after spending a few hours under the

> > coach,

> > > poking around, this will be impossible without getting the

coach

> > on a

> > > lift. Anybody know what size cable is used on the coaches that

> > have

> > > factory installed inverters in the bays?

> > >

> > > Here is a responce from Xantrex about the cable size. YIKES!!!

> > >

> > >

> > > Dear Kurt Horvath,

> > >

> > > My wire size calculator says 1000 MCM, which I didn't even

know

> > > existed until just now. Is there any way you can shorten the

run

> > to

> > > 12 feet, which would allow you to use 500 MCM?

> > >

> > > For all correspondence regarding this issue, please make sure

to

> > > leave the ID number [ref:00D3Wjr.500351Yfr:ref] in the subject

> > line

> > > or body of the email.

> > >

> > > Allegra Sloman

> > > Customer Service Operations

> > > Xantrex Technology Inc.

> > >

> > > Well there goes the farm 1000 MCM cable????

> > >

> > > There are 2 large cables running along the top inside of the

> wheel

> > > well from the engine compartment into the holding tank bay and

> > > forwards from there. This looks like the easy way to run the

> > cables

> > > but it is exposed to a lot road damage and wear and tear, not

to

> > > mention a tire coming apart. So it's not really a good choice.

> Any

> > > ideas on this option?

> > >

> > > I am checking into STACKING the inverters. I really don't know

> > much

> > > about how this system works. Or what is required to change

from

> > the

> > > two unit system to a STACKED system. I do know that it reduces

> the

> > > required cable lenght in half. Any ideas here would be helpful.

> > >

> > > I also have to run the control wires and 120v wires from the

> > engine

> > > bay to the new invert bay. The control wires are also a small

> > problem

> > > the origonal wires are 6 wire data lines and the new control

> wires

> > > call for a 4 wire telephone line in place of the old data

line.

> > I'm

> > > told that these can be used with a little effort. I haven't

> gotten

> > > that far into the project yet. I hope that I don't have to re-

run

> > the

> > > control lines through the whole coach.

> > >

> > > One thing that bothers me is that the inverters are now

> surrounded

> > by

> > > water pipes and tanks. Water pumps on one side and a small

water

> > tank

> > > on the other with plumbing going over the top. i guess I'll

just

> > have

> > > to keep an eye out for leaks.

> > >

> > > I am considering installing some small fans with snap

thermostats

> > to

> > > control venting the compartment. Here again I'm asking for

ideas.

> > You

> > > can vent out the back of the bay but it blows against the fuel

> > tank.

> > > That doesn't seem like a good idea. Or I could mount the fans

on

> > the

> > > shelf and pipe it down through the bottom of the bay. But here

> > again

> > > hot air rises and this will be trying to draw it downwards.

I'm

> > not

> > > even sure if this is needed. But it sounds like a lot of fun.

> > >

> > >

> > > Kurt Horvath

> > > 95 PT-42 WLWB

> > > Fayetteville TN

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > PS. After the e-mail from Xantrex I am considering putting the

> new

> > > inveters back in the engine compartment. After all the old

> > inverters

> > > were there for 13 years?!?!?!?!?!?!? HELP!

> > >

> >

>