Xantrex RV 3012 M Inverter Installation, Reinventing the wheel!

[bumpersbird]

Dorn,

Yes a cool, dry, clean place for the new unit. Within a few feet of
the batterries. Sounds perfect, speaking of sound. Did you notice the
large cooling fan on the back of the inverter. I wonder how loud that
baby is when she spins up? You could vent that fan out of the cabinet
somehow, maybe like a side wall mounted water heater. I am sure you
will have to vent it somehow. The installation instructions warn
about mounting in an enclosed space.

Kurt Horvath
95 PT-42
10AC


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Dorn Hetzel"
wrote:
>
> I'm absolutely planning on running the 3012 I bought while the
engine is
> running, to provide some amount of 120VAC while driving down the
road. I'm
> considering mounting it inside the coach in the cabinet behind the
drivers
> seat, since that would be within two or three feet of the
batteries...
>
> Dorn Hetzel
> 77FC35
> Hogansville, GA
>
> On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 12:22 AM, Gregory OConnor
wrote:
>
> > The only time it is hot is when the engine is running. I learned
> > with the refer mod that moving air with a fan has little cooling
> > effect. replacing the air in the compartment with a fan has the
most
> > advantage.
> >
> > If you look at the inverter box that BB engineeres (BirdBrains)
> > installed(in my '94), it floats in the battery compartment with
air
> > gap around the entire box. Even the material it is made of looks
> > like it is a special (maybe, low heat conductive) product???????I
> > wonder if the box by design cools with passing air as you drive or
> > is there a better way to move the engine heated air away from the
> > inverter box? I wonder if a scoop would move more air or hinder
the
> > existing path
> >
> > The "three enemies of inverters" Xantrex quote may be three
enimies
> > of an Inverter/Charger and not necessarly of just the stand alone
> > inverter??????? . I wonder why BB speced units with remote
> > batterychargers??? and why they moved the chargers so far away. Is
> > it a heat issue with the chargers only??? .
> >
> > if Chargers-only have the heat issue (prompting the BirdBrain
move),
> > chargers are not worked while driving unless you drive with the
> > genset running, so while driving heat is of no issue with inverter
> > only???? It may be that you need to cut 110V input to the
inverter/
> > chargers when the detroit is running (or InverterBox temp is too
> > hot) to keep the chargers from lighting up if the genset is used.
> >
> > GregoryO'Connor
> > 94pt in need of new inverter chargers.
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "bumpersbird"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Gregg,
> > >
> > > Your probably right.
> > >
> > > I spoke with several people today, Xantrex support, Solar power
> > techs
> > > etc. after I posted my little progress report. It seems as it
does
> > > not matter how heavy the cable is after a certain lenght the DC
> > side
> > > decreases efficance for every foot past 7' and after about 12'
it
> > may
> > > not function at all. I've learned there are three enemies of an
> > > invertrer: 1- Moisture,2- Heat,3- Dirt
> > >
> > > I have been told that it can be done but the majority opinion is
> > it's
> > > better to keep the inverters as close to the batteries as
> > possible,
> > > even if they run hot and are in a dirty enviroment. By the way
> > those
> > > who think it's doable have not elaborated on how to do it.
> > >
> > > So I'm going to put the new units in the inverter box in the
> > engine
> > > compartment. It will be a tight fit. Moisture is not really a
> > > problem, perhaps condensation on the rare occasion. I will vent
it
> > in
> > > some fashion, probably a couple of 130 cfm computer fans. The
fans
> > > that I'm installing to cool the engine compartment should also
> > help a
> > > lot. I'm mounting 2 - 1650 CFM radiator fans on the right side
> > grill.
> > > The inverters are just a 10" or 12" away. I might place some
sort
> > of
> > > air filter on the door in an attemp to keep the box interior
> > somewhat
> > > clean.
> > >
> > > I have 6 Lifline Batteries, they are only 24 month old and in
time
> > > switching to something else could happen, but these will have to
> > die
> > > first, especially at $600.00 each
> > >
> > > SSSSHHHHHH_________TTTTTTTT !!!!!! There I go again, trying to
> > > reinvent the wheel. To be honest this was probably one of
> > Bluebirds
> > > bigger engineering screw ups. Then again maybe not the old
> > inverters
> > > were in there for 13 years.
> > >
> > > Hey on the bright side the bay with the BBQ is now metal lined,
> > Looks
> > > good and should be easier to clean.
> > >
> > > Kurt Horvath
> > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > Fayetteville TN
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "Gregory OConnor"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Kurt,
> > > > Would it be less costly and with less issues to re vamp the
> > heart
> > > > inverter box area above the batteries to make it waterproof
and
> > may
> > > > be even taller????
> > > >
> > > > With L-16 I have more room under the inverter box as the top
> > > > battery tray was removed.
> > > > http://www.pbase.com/gregoryoc/image/86932717
> > > >
> > > > you can also split the inverters up?????????
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > GregoryO'Connor
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "bumpersbird"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > The two inveters arrived in new sealed boxes. The RV7/GS
> > > > controlers
> > > > > arrived in as new condition, but they were in non mfg
> > packaging.
> > > > >
> > > > > cost to date:
> > > > >
> > > > > $1370.00 inverters.
> > > > > $ 305.00 controls.
> > > > > $ 100.00 Sheet metal and aluminum angle for lining bay.
> > > > >
> > > > > I decided that I will move the inverters into bay 3, right
> > side
> > > in
> > > > > place of the electric grill, from the hot, dirty, and
> > sometimes
> > > > wet
> > > > > inverter box in the engine compartment.
> > > > >
> > > > > After the renovations I will convert the old inverter box to
> > hold
> > > > 2
> > > > > more house batteries.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have removed the grill and I have lined the area with
sheet
> > > > metal,
> > > > > and framed the opening with aluminum angle. I also replaced
> > the
> > > > > small angle iron mounting peices with wider aluminun braces
> > and
> > > > ran
> > > > > an angle support under the shelf to help support the 120+
lbs.
> > of
> > > > > weight, Overkill! When the tool box is under the shelf it
does
> > > not
> > > > > move or vibrate. I will post photos shortly.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is the question of how large the wires have to be that
> > > > connect
> > > > > the invertes to the batteries. It will take appox. 115' of
> > cable
> > > > to
> > > > > get the job done and if you have bought heavy copper cable
of
> > > late
> > > > > it's not cheep! It looks like around $10.00 a foot for 350
MCM
> > > > > welding cable.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is 0.970 in diameter So I am having a bit of trouble
> > figuring
> > > > out
> > > > > how or where to run these cables. Idealy inside the frame
rail
> > > > would
> > > > > be my first choice, but after spending a few hours under the
> > > > coach,
> > > > > poking around, this will be impossible without getting the
> > coach
> > > > on a
> > > > > lift. Anybody know what size cable is used on the coaches
that
> > > > have
> > > > > factory installed inverters in the bays?
> > > > >
> > > > > Here is a responce from Xantrex about the cable size.
YIKES!!!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dear Kurt Horvath,
> > > > >
> > > > > My wire size calculator says 1000 MCM, which I didn't even
> > know
> > > > > existed until just now. Is there any way you can shorten the
> > run
> > > > to
> > > > > 12 feet, which would allow you to use 500 MCM?
> > > > >
> > > > > For all correspondence regarding this issue, please make
sure
> > to
> > > > > leave the ID number [ref:00D3Wjr.500351Yfr:ref] in the
subject
> > > > line
> > > > > or body of the email.
> > > > >
> > > > > Allegra Sloman
> > > > > Customer Service Operations
> > > > > Xantrex Technology Inc.
> > > > >
> > > > > Well there goes the farm 1000 MCM cable????
> > > > >
> > > > > There are 2 large cables running along the top inside of the
> > > wheel
> > > > > well from the engine compartment into the holding tank bay
and
> > > > > forwards from there. This looks like the easy way to run the
> > > > cables
> > > > > but it is exposed to a lot road damage and wear and tear,
not
> > to
> > > > > mention a tire coming apart. So it's not really a good
choice.
> > > Any
> > > > > ideas on this option?
> > > > >
> > > > > I am checking into STACKING the inverters. I really don't
know
> > > > much
> > > > > about how this system works. Or what is required to change
> > from
> > > > the
> > > > > two unit system to a STACKED system. I do know that it
reduces
> > > the
> > > > > required cable lenght in half. Any ideas here would be
helpful.
> > > > >
> > > > > I also have to run the control wires and 120v wires from the
> > > > engine
> > > > > bay to the new invert bay. The control wires are also a
small
> > > > problem
> > > > > the origonal wires are 6 wire data lines and the new control
> > > wires
> > > > > call for a 4 wire telephone line in place of the old data
> > line.
> > > > I'm
> > > > > told that these can be used with a little effort. I haven't
> > > gotten
> > > > > that far into the project yet. I hope that I don't have to
re-
> > run
> > > > the
> > > > > control lines through the whole coach.
> > > > >
> > > > > One thing that bothers me is that the inverters are now
> > > surrounded
> > > > by
> > > > > water pipes and tanks. Water pumps on one side and a small
> > water
> > > > tank
> > > > > on the other with plumbing going over the top. i guess I'll
> > just
> > > > have
> > > > > to keep an eye out for leaks.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am considering installing some small fans with snap
> > thermostats
> > > > to
> > > > > control venting the compartment. Here again I'm asking for
> > ideas.
> > > > You
> > > > > can vent out the back of the bay but it blows against the
fuel
> > > > tank.
> > > > > That doesn't seem like a good idea. Or I could mount the
fans
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > > shelf and pipe it down through the bottom of the bay. But
here
> > > > again
> > > > > hot air rises and this will be trying to draw it downwards.
> > I'm
> > > > not
> > > > > even sure if this is needed. But it sounds like a lot of
fun.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > > > Fayetteville TN
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > PS. After the e-mail from Xantrex I am considering putting
the
> > > new
> > > > > inveters back in the engine compartment. After all the old
> > > > inverters
> > > > > were there for 13 years?!?!?!?!?!?!? HELP!
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>