Xantrex RV 3012 M Inverter Installation, Reinventing the wheel!

[Dorn Hetzel]

I'm considering pulling the under-couch propane heater that doesn't work anyway and using it's vent to route the inverter hot air out.

On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:33 AM, bumpersbird <"bumpersbird@yahoo.com"> wrote:

Dorn,



Yes a cool, dry, clean place for the new unit. Within a few feet of

the batterries. Sounds perfect, speaking of sound. Did you notice the

large cooling fan on the back of the inverter. I wonder how loud that

baby is when she spins up? You could vent that fan out of the cabinet

somehow, maybe like a side wall mounted water heater. I am sure you

will have to vent it somehow. The installation instructions warn

about mounting in an enclosed space.

Kurt Horvath

95 PT-42

10AC



--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "Dorn Hetzel"

wrote:

>

> I'm absolutely planning on running the 3012 I bought while the

engine is

> running, to provide some amount of 120VAC while driving down the

road. I'm

> considering mounting it inside the coach in the cabinet behind the

drivers

> seat, since that would be within two or three feet of the

batteries...

>

> Dorn Hetzel

> 77FC35

> Hogansville, GA

>

> On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 12:22 AM, Gregory OConnor

wrote:

>

> > The only time it is hot is when the engine is running. I learned

> > with the refer mod that moving air with a fan has little cooling

> > effect. replacing the air in the compartment with a fan has the

most

> > advantage.

> >

> > If you look at the inverter box that BB engineeres (BirdBrains)

> > installed(in my '94), it floats in the battery compartment with

air

> > gap around the entire box. Even the material it is made of looks

> > like it is a special (maybe, low heat conductive) product???????I

> > wonder if the box by design cools with passing air as you drive or

> > is there a better way to move the engine heated air away from the

> > inverter box? I wonder if a scoop would move more air or hinder

the

> > existing path

> >

> > The "three enemies of inverters" Xantrex quote may be three

enimies

> > of an Inverter/Charger and not necessarly of just the stand alone

> > inverter??????? . I wonder why BB speced units with remote

> > batterychargers??? and why they moved the chargers so far away. Is

> > it a heat issue with the chargers only??? .

> >

> > if Chargers-only have the heat issue (prompting the BirdBrain

move),

> > chargers are not worked while driving unless you drive with the

> > genset running, so while driving heat is of no issue with inverter

> > only???? It may be that you need to cut 110V input to the

inverter/

> > chargers when the detroit is running (or InverterBox temp is too

> > hot) to keep the chargers from lighting up if the genset is used.

> >

> > GregoryO'Connor

> > 94pt in need of new inverter chargers.

> >

> >

> > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"
40yahoogroups.com>,

> > "bumpersbird"

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Gregg,

> > >

> > > Your probably right.

> > >

> > > I spoke with several people today, Xantrex support, Solar power

> > techs

> > > etc. after I posted my little progress report. It seems as it

does

> > > not matter how heavy the cable is after a certain lenght the DC

> > side

> > > decreases efficance for every foot past 7' and after about 12'

it

> > may

> > > not function at all. I've learned there are three enemies of an

> > > invertrer: 1- Moisture,2- Heat,3- Dirt

> > >

> > > I have been told that it can be done but the majority opinion is

> > it's

> > > better to keep the inverters as close to the batteries as

> > possible,

> > > even if they run hot and are in a dirty enviroment. By the way

> > those

> > > who think it's doable have not elaborated on how to do it.

> > >

> > > So I'm going to put the new units in the inverter box in the

> > engine

> > > compartment. It will be a tight fit. Moisture is not really a

> > > problem, perhaps condensation on the rare occasion. I will vent

it

> > in

> > > some fashion, probably a couple of 130 cfm computer fans. The

fans

> > > that I'm installing to cool the engine compartment should also

> > help a

> > > lot. I'm mounting 2 - 1650 CFM radiator fans on the right side

> > grill.

> > > The inverters are just a 10" or 12" away. I might place some

sort

> > of

> > > air filter on the door in an attemp to keep the box interior

> > somewhat

> > > clean.

> > >

> > > I have 6 Lifline Batteries, they are only 24 month old and in

time

> > > switching to something else could happen, but these will have to

> > die

> > > first, especially at $600.00 each

> > >

> > > SSSSHHHHHH_________TTTTTTTT !!!!!! There I go again, trying to

> > > reinvent the wheel. To be honest this was probably one of

> > Bluebirds

> > > bigger engineering screw ups. Then again maybe not the old

> > inverters

> > > were in there for 13 years.

> > >

> > > Hey on the bright side the bay with the BBQ is now metal lined,

> > Looks

> > > good and should be easier to clean.

> > >

> > > Kurt Horvath

> > > 95 PT-42 WLWB

> > > Fayetteville TN

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"
40yahoogroups.com>,

> > "Gregory OConnor"

> > > wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Kurt,

> > > > Would it be less costly and with less issues to re vamp the

> > heart

> > > > inverter box area above the batteries to make it waterproof

and

> > may

> > > > be even taller????

> > > >

> > > > With L-16 I have more room under the inverter box as the top

> > > > battery tray was removed.

> > > > http://www.pbase.com/gregoryoc/image/86932717

> > > >

> > > > you can also split the inverters up?????????

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > GregoryO'Connor

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"
40yahoogroups.com>,

> > "bumpersbird"

> > > > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > The two inveters arrived in new sealed boxes. The RV7/GS

> > > > controlers

> > > > > arrived in as new condition, but they were in non mfg

> > packaging.

> > > > >

> > > > > cost to date:

> > > > >

> > > > > $1370.00 inverters.

> > > > > $ 305.00 controls.

> > > > > $ 100.00 Sheet metal and aluminum angle for lining bay.

> > > > >

> > > > > I decided that I will move the inverters into bay 3, right

> > side

> > > in

> > > > > place of the electric grill, from the hot, dirty, and

> > sometimes

> > > > wet

> > > > > inverter box in the engine compartment.

> > > > >

> > > > > After the renovations I will convert the old inverter box to

> > hold

> > > > 2

> > > > > more house batteries.

> > > > >

> > > > > I have removed the grill and I have lined the area with

sheet

> > > > metal,

> > > > > and framed the opening with aluminum angle. I also replaced

> > the

> > > > > small angle iron mounting peices with wider aluminun braces

> > and

> > > > ran

> > > > > an angle support under the shelf to help support the 120+

lbs.

> > of

> > > > > weight, Overkill! When the tool box is under the shelf it

does

> > > not

> > > > > move or vibrate. I will post photos shortly.

> > > > >

> > > > > There is the question of how large the wires have to be that

> > > > connect

> > > > > the invertes to the batteries. It will take appox. 115' of

> > cable

> > > > to

> > > > > get the job done and if you have bought heavy copper cable

of

> > > late

> > > > > it's not cheep! It looks like around $10.00 a foot for 350

MCM

> > > > > welding cable.

> > > > >

> > > > > It is 0.970 in diameter So I am having a bit of trouble

> > figuring

> > > > out

> > > > > how or where to run these cables. Idealy inside the frame

rail

> > > > would

> > > > > be my first choice, but after spending a few hours under the

> > > > coach,

> > > > > poking around, this will be impossible without getting the

> > coach

> > > > on a

> > > > > lift. Anybody know what size cable is used on the coaches

that

> > > > have

> > > > > factory installed inverters in the bays?

> > > > >

> > > > > Here is a responce from Xantrex about the cable size.

YIKES!!!

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Kurt Horvath,

> > > > >

> > > > > My wire size calculator says 1000 MCM, which I didn't even

> > know

> > > > > existed until just now. Is there any way you can shorten the

> > run

> > > > to

> > > > > 12 feet, which would allow you to use 500 MCM?

> > > > >

> > > > > For all correspondence regarding this issue, please make

sure

> > to

> > > > > leave the ID number [ref:00D3Wjr.500351Yfr:ref] in the

subject

> > > > line

> > > > > or body of the email.

> > > > >

> > > > > Allegra Sloman

> > > > > Customer Service Operations

> > > > > Xantrex Technology Inc.

> > > > >

> > > > > Well there goes the farm 1000 MCM cable????

> > > > >

> > > > > There are 2 large cables running along the top inside of the

> > > wheel

> > > > > well from the engine compartment into the holding tank bay

and

> > > > > forwards from there. This looks like the easy way to run the

> > > > cables

> > > > > but it is exposed to a lot road damage and wear and tear,

not

> > to

> > > > > mention a tire coming apart. So it's not really a good

choice.

> > > Any

> > > > > ideas on this option?

> > > > >

> > > > > I am checking into STACKING the inverters. I really don't

know

> > > > much

> > > > > about how this system works. Or what is required to change

> > from

> > > > the

> > > > > two unit system to a STACKED system. I do know that it

reduces

> > > the

> > > > > required cable lenght in half. Any ideas here would be

helpful.

> > > > >

> > > > > I also have to run the control wires and 120v wires from the

> > > > engine

> > > > > bay to the new invert bay. The control wires are also a

small

> > > > problem

> > > > > the origonal wires are 6 wire data lines and the new control

> > > wires

> > > > > call for a 4 wire telephone line in place of the old data

> > line.

> > > > I'm

> > > > > told that these can be used with a little effort. I haven't

> > > gotten

> > > > > that far into the project yet. I hope that I don't have to

re-

> > run

> > > > the

> > > > > control lines through the whole coach.

> > > > >

> > > > > One thing that bothers me is that the inverters are now

> > > surrounded

> > > > by

> > > > > water pipes and tanks. Water pumps on one side and a small

> > water

> > > > tank

> > > > > on the other with plumbing going over the top. i guess I'll

> > just

> > > > have

> > > > > to keep an eye out for leaks.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am considering installing some small fans with snap

> > thermostats

> > > > to

> > > > > control venting the compartment. Here again I'm asking for

> > ideas.

> > > > You

> > > > > can vent out the back of the bay but it blows against the

fuel

> > > > tank.

> > > > > That doesn't seem like a good idea. Or I could mount the

fans

> > on

> > > > the

> > > > > shelf and pipe it down through the bottom of the bay. But

here

> > > > again

> > > > > hot air rises and this will be trying to draw it downwards.

> > I'm

> > > > not

> > > > > even sure if this is needed. But it sounds like a lot of

fun.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Kurt Horvath

> > > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB

> > > > > Fayetteville TN

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > PS. After the e-mail from Xantrex I am considering putting

the

> > > new

> > > > > inveters back in the engine compartment. After all the old

> > > > inverters

> > > > > were there for 13 years?!?!?!?!?!?!? HELP!

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>