Xantrex RV 3012 M Inverter Installation, Reinventing the wheel!

[bumpersbird]

Well there you go, sounds like a good spot for the inverter.
Did you get a RC7 or RC7/GS control for the inverter?

Kurt Horvath
95 PT-42
10AC



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Dorn Hetzel"
wrote:
>
> I'm considering pulling the under-couch propane heater that doesn't
work
> anyway and using it's vent to route the inverter hot air out.
>
> On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 10:33 AM, bumpersbird
wrote:
>
> > Dorn,
> >
> > Yes a cool, dry, clean place for the new unit. Within a few feet
of
> > the batterries. Sounds perfect, speaking of sound. Did you notice
the
> > large cooling fan on the back of the inverter. I wonder how loud
that
> > baby is when she spins up? You could vent that fan out of the
cabinet
> > somehow, maybe like a side wall mounted water heater. I am sure
you
> > will have to vent it somehow. The installation instructions warn
> > about mounting in an enclosed space.
> >
> >
> > Kurt Horvath
> > 95 PT-42
> > 10AC
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "Dorn Hetzel"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm absolutely planning on running the 3012 I bought while the
> > engine is
> > > running, to provide some amount of 120VAC while driving down the
> > road. I'm
> > > considering mounting it inside the coach in the cabinet behind
the
> > drivers
> > > seat, since that would be within two or three feet of the
> > batteries...
> > >
> > > Dorn Hetzel
> > > 77FC35
> > > Hogansville, GA
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jun 10, 2008 at 12:22 AM, Gregory OConnor
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > The only time it is hot is when the engine is running. I
learned
> > > > with the refer mod that moving air with a fan has little
cooling
> > > > effect. replacing the air in the compartment with a fan has
the
> > most
> > > > advantage.
> > > >
> > > > If you look at the inverter box that BB engineeres
(BirdBrains)
> > > > installed(in my '94), it floats in the battery compartment
with
> > air
> > > > gap around the entire box. Even the material it is made of
looks
> > > > like it is a special (maybe, low heat conductive)
product???????I
> > > > wonder if the box by design cools with passing air as you
drive or
> > > > is there a better way to move the engine heated air away from
the
> > > > inverter box? I wonder if a scoop would move more air or
hinder
> > the
> > > > existing path
> > > >
> > > > The "three enemies of inverters" Xantrex quote may be three
> > enimies
> > > > of an Inverter/Charger and not necessarly of just the stand
alone
> > > > inverter??????? . I wonder why BB speced units with remote
> > > > batterychargers??? and why they moved the chargers so far
away. Is
> > > > it a heat issue with the chargers only??? .
> > > >
> > > > if Chargers-only have the heat issue (prompting the BirdBrain
> > move),
> > > > chargers are not worked while driving unless you drive with
the
> > > > genset running, so while driving heat is of no issue with
inverter
> > > > only???? It may be that you need to cut 110V input to the
> > inverter/
> > > > chargers when the detroit is running (or InverterBox temp is
too
> > > > hot) to keep the chargers from lighting up if the genset is
used.
> > > >
> > > > GregoryO'Connor
> > > > 94pt in need of new inverter chargers.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > 40yahoogroups.com>,
> >
> > > > "bumpersbird"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Gregg,
> > > > >
> > > > > Your probably right.
> > > > >
> > > > > I spoke with several people today, Xantrex support, Solar
power
> > > > techs
> > > > > etc. after I posted my little progress report. It seems as
it
> > does
> > > > > not matter how heavy the cable is after a certain lenght
the DC
> > > > side
> > > > > decreases efficance for every foot past 7' and after about
12'
> > it
> > > > may
> > > > > not function at all. I've learned there are three enemies
of an
> > > > > invertrer: 1- Moisture,2- Heat,3- Dirt
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been told that it can be done but the majority
opinion is
> > > > it's
> > > > > better to keep the inverters as close to the batteries as
> > > > possible,
> > > > > even if they run hot and are in a dirty enviroment. By the
way
> > > > those
> > > > > who think it's doable have not elaborated on how to do it.
> > > > >
> > > > > So I'm going to put the new units in the inverter box in the
> > > > engine
> > > > > compartment. It will be a tight fit. Moisture is not really
a
> > > > > problem, perhaps condensation on the rare occasion. I will
vent
> > it
> > > > in
> > > > > some fashion, probably a couple of 130 cfm computer fans.
The
> > fans
> > > > > that I'm installing to cool the engine compartment should
also
> > > > help a
> > > > > lot. I'm mounting 2 - 1650 CFM radiator fans on the right
side
> > > > grill.
> > > > > The inverters are just a 10" or 12" away. I might place some
> > sort
> > > > of
> > > > > air filter on the door in an attemp to keep the box interior
> > > > somewhat
> > > > > clean.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have 6 Lifline Batteries, they are only 24 month old and
in
> > time
> > > > > switching to something else could happen, but these will
have to
> > > > die
> > > > > first, especially at $600.00 each
> > > > >
> > > > > SSSSHHHHHH_________TTTTTTTT !!!!!! There I go again, trying
to
> > > > > reinvent the wheel. To be honest this was probably one of
> > > > Bluebirds
> > > > > bigger engineering screw ups. Then again maybe not the old
> > > > inverters
> > > > > were in there for 13 years.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey on the bright side the bay with the BBQ is now metal
lined,
> > > > Looks
> > > > > good and should be easier to clean.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > > > Fayetteville TN
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > "Gregory OConnor"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kurt,
> > > > > > Would it be less costly and with less issues to re vamp
the
> > > > heart
> > > > > > inverter box area above the batteries to make it
waterproof
> > and
> > > > may
> > > > > > be even taller????
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With L-16 I have more room under the inverter box as the
top
> > > > > > battery tray was removed.
> > > > > > http://www.pbase.com/gregoryoc/image/86932717
> > > > > >
> > > > > > you can also split the inverters up?????????
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > GregoryO'Connor
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com 40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > 40yahoogroups.com>,
> >
> > > > "bumpersbird"
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The two inveters arrived in new sealed boxes. The RV7/GS
> > > > > > controlers
> > > > > > > arrived in as new condition, but they were in non mfg
> > > > packaging.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > cost to date:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > $1370.00 inverters.
> > > > > > > $ 305.00 controls.
> > > > > > > $ 100.00 Sheet metal and aluminum angle for lining bay.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I decided that I will move the inverters into bay 3,
right
> > > > side
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > place of the electric grill, from the hot, dirty, and
> > > > sometimes
> > > > > > wet
> > > > > > > inverter box in the engine compartment.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > After the renovations I will convert the old inverter
box to
> > > > hold
> > > > > > 2
> > > > > > > more house batteries.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have removed the grill and I have lined the area with
> > sheet
> > > > > > metal,
> > > > > > > and framed the opening with aluminum angle. I also
replaced
> > > > the
> > > > > > > small angle iron mounting peices with wider aluminun
braces
> > > > and
> > > > > > ran
> > > > > > > an angle support under the shelf to help support the
120+
> > lbs.
> > > > of
> > > > > > > weight, Overkill! When the tool box is under the shelf
it
> > does
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > move or vibrate. I will post photos shortly.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There is the question of how large the wires have to be
that
> > > > > > connect
> > > > > > > the invertes to the batteries. It will take appox. 115'
of
> > > > cable
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > get the job done and if you have bought heavy copper
cable
> > of
> > > > > late
> > > > > > > it's not cheep! It looks like around $10.00 a foot for
350
> > MCM
> > > > > > > welding cable.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It is 0.970 in diameter So I am having a bit of trouble
> > > > figuring
> > > > > > out
> > > > > > > how or where to run these cables. Idealy inside the
frame
> > rail
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > > be my first choice, but after spending a few hours
under the
> > > > > > coach,
> > > > > > > poking around, this will be impossible without getting
the
> > > > coach
> > > > > > on a
> > > > > > > lift. Anybody know what size cable is used on the
coaches
> > that
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > factory installed inverters in the bays?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here is a responce from Xantrex about the cable size.
> > YIKES!!!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Dear Kurt Horvath,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My wire size calculator says 1000 MCM, which I didn't
even
> > > > know
> > > > > > > existed until just now. Is there any way you can
shorten the
> > > > run
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > 12 feet, which would allow you to use 500 MCM?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For all correspondence regarding this issue, please make
> > sure
> > > > to
> > > > > > > leave the ID number [ref:00D3Wjr.500351Yfr:ref] in the
> > subject
> > > > > > line
> > > > > > > or body of the email.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Allegra Sloman
> > > > > > > Customer Service Operations
> > > > > > > Xantrex Technology Inc.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Well there goes the farm 1000 MCM cable????
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There are 2 large cables running along the top inside
of the
> > > > > wheel
> > > > > > > well from the engine compartment into the holding tank
bay
> > and
> > > > > > > forwards from there. This looks like the easy way to
run the
> > > > > > cables
> > > > > > > but it is exposed to a lot road damage and wear and
tear,
> > not
> > > > to
> > > > > > > mention a tire coming apart. So it's not really a good
> > choice.
> > > > > Any
> > > > > > > ideas on this option?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am checking into STACKING the inverters. I really
don't
> > know
> > > > > > much
> > > > > > > about how this system works. Or what is required to
change
> > > > from
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > two unit system to a STACKED system. I do know that it
> > reduces
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > required cable lenght in half. Any ideas here would be
> > helpful.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I also have to run the control wires and 120v wires
from the
> > > > > > engine
> > > > > > > bay to the new invert bay. The control wires are also a
> > small
> > > > > > problem
> > > > > > > the origonal wires are 6 wire data lines and the new
control
> > > > > wires
> > > > > > > call for a 4 wire telephone line in place of the old
data
> > > > line.
> > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > told that these can be used with a little effort. I
haven't
> > > > > gotten
> > > > > > > that far into the project yet. I hope that I don't have
to
> > re-
> > > > run
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > control lines through the whole coach.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > One thing that bothers me is that the inverters are now
> > > > > surrounded
> > > > > > by
> > > > > > > water pipes and tanks. Water pumps on one side and a
small
> > > > water
> > > > > > tank
> > > > > > > on the other with plumbing going over the top. i guess
I'll
> > > > just
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > to keep an eye out for leaks.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am considering installing some small fans with snap
> > > > thermostats
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > control venting the compartment. Here again I'm asking
for
> > > > ideas.
> > > > > > You
> > > > > > > can vent out the back of the bay but it blows against
the
> > fuel
> > > > > > tank.
> > > > > > > That doesn't seem like a good idea. Or I could mount the
> > fans
> > > > on
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > shelf and pipe it down through the bottom of the bay.
But
> > here
> > > > > > again
> > > > > > > hot air rises and this will be trying to draw it
downwards.
> > > > I'm
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > even sure if this is needed. But it sounds like a lot of
> > fun.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kurt Horvath
> > > > > > > 95 PT-42 WLWB
> > > > > > > Fayetteville TN
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > PS. After the e-mail from Xantrex I am considering
putting
> > the
> > > > > new
> > > > > > > inveters back in the engine compartment. After all the
old
> > > > > > inverters
> > > > > > > were there for 13 years?!?!?!?!?!?!? HELP!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>