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06-18-2008, 17:43

It must feel better to get that off your chest. See what wonderful

therapy this list is, and free of charge! I remember when
you

described the work that Henderson's did some months ago. I recall

that you had BB in the loop and they suggested "hammering it

back in place and welding it". I've had welding work done in the

past by shipyard welders and have been impressed. These guys

work with heavy equipment routinely and pay attention to stress

flows, risers, mitigation, etc. Some people can look at a steel joint

or interface and picture in their minds exactly how the lines of stress

radiate and how to spread the load with gussets. I wonder if you

had shock failure in the CCW parking lot due to them raising the

front of the bus with the HWH jacks, and then dropping it w/o

first getting some air in the suspension. If so, this may have been

the last straw for the mount. We know by now that there's not

a lot of tolerance between the suspension bottoming on the air

bag bump stops versus the shock bottoming internally exerting

"shock" loads into the shock mounts. Ever wonder why you only

have this problem on one side of the coach? The reason is that

the other shock mount shares it's upper bracket with the panhard

rod, which is an extremely stout structure, as opposed to the

driver's side upper mount which is a wimpy flange and bolt

huck bolted to the vertical flange of the c-channel frame. So everyone:

1) keep an eye on your drivers side upper shock mount,

2) check your shocks to make sure they're not too long in the fully

compressed state which leads to the shocks bearing the load of the

coach instead of the front airbag bump stops, and

3) air up your coach before you retract your HWH landing gear.

David Brady

'02 LXi, NC

Pete Masterson wrote:

The long story: Same shock mount....

Henderson's noticed a crack along one edge of a 'rib' on the
left front shock mount. They welded it ... but in reviewing the
ultimate much more serious failure, they (Henderson's) didn't know much
about proper welding technique. (I'm no expert either ... but after
seeing what CCW did vs. what Henderson's did, it is obvious that the
Henderson's welder may have had a high-school welding class and was not
a certified welder.)

I had been noticing a 'popping' noise in the front end -- to my
ear, it sounded like it was coming from the curb side of the coach ...
but that may have been misleading. The popping noise occurred on heavy
dips and on wavy bits of road (as are common on the freeways in the SF
Bay Area that were built on fill land). I now realize that it was
probably the mount tearing itself apart.

The requested inspection found a loose 'fender' (a piece of
metal up in the curb side wheel well) that was screwed back in place
(OEM was a single screw, which broke. Now there are two screws). That
was thought to be the source of the noise. (We hadn't road tested the
coach.) Some other work was done and we were about finished with the
list when we made a small move (a few feet) and suddenly the left front
air line was separated. Upon inspection, it was found that the shock
had completely torn away and took out the brake line when it came
loose. The shock mount was severely torn and bent.

One of the technicians assigned to my coach had actually worked
for several years as a certified welder in a shipyard -- and he was
supervised (on this job) by yet another certified welder. The prep work
they did was significant and impressive compared to the bend it back
and tack it weld done at Henderson's. The weld was also given
additional gussets to strengthen the area of the crack -- and all the
area was completely ground down and all rust was stripped away. (I
don't recall seeing that Henderson's did any of the prep work like
that.) I note, too, that CCW had the heavy shop equipment necessary to
straighten out the bends in the torn off piece -- they must have a
heavy press somewhere on their facility as the bent up 1/4" piece of
steel that was torn off ended up beautifully flat before it was put
back in place.

CCW was very careful about the electronics and took everything
offline, removing the battery cables, isolating the DDEC unit by
removing the wires from it on the engine andsimilarlyisolating
the electronics for the transmission. (I don't recall Henderson's doing
any of that, either.) Then there was a _lot_ of welding -- with an
assistant standing by with a fire extinguisher. All in all, the CCW
team did a very professional job of welding and strengthening the shock
mount. Unfortunately, the shock itself had been bent at one end during
the failure ... and I discovered that Koni shocks for BB buses are not
on every auto parts store shelf. As luck would have it, the shock
ordered overnight from Hayward (No. CA) was lost by UPS! To avoid
keeping me over another weekend, they arranged to remove an identical
shock from another coach (which had recently had new shocks installed)
and got me on the road. (The shock ordered for my coach went on the
other coach when it eventually arrived.) However, this little incident
added 2 days to my stay.

Since the shock mount had reachedimminentfailure enroute
to CCW, I actually feel lucky that it happened to let go while located
in the service area at CCW as compared to any other possibility. (I'm a
little surprised that it wasn't seen until the failure occurred -- but
I guess they just missed it.)

I guess the lesson here is, if you have a 95-97 PT-42, be sure
to take a look at your front shock mounts carefully. BB apparently used
a variety of designs (from what I hear) and it's probably because
they've had some troubles with that component in the past.

Oh, yeah. The popping noise is gone.
Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"
On Jun 18, 2008, at 9:37 PM, David Brady wrote:
Ouch, another failed front shock mount??? Is
this the one that Hendrickson's

welded for you? I guess you are stuck with Windows if you want VMSpc,

or for mega-bucks you can buy one of their stand-alone units, or you
could

pioneer a linux/wine installation. Ten days w/o a toad, I feel your
pain.

David Brady

'02 LXi, NC

Pete Masterson wrote:
After the trouble CCW had getting the interface to talk with
their computer, I'm sure I won't be getting VMSpc. (Besides, I'm an
all-Mac kind of guy and I really don't want to get a Windows computer.)

CCW eventually had to dig out an old Windows 98 laptop to
hook up to my connector. They just couldn't get anything newer to talk
to the old hardware. At least they had one around to use ... and, of
course this added another day to mysojournthere.

Hint: Take a toad with you if you ever plan to stay with
your coach at CCW in Riverside! I opted not to, and I regretted it (I
was there for 10 days -- I'd planned on 3. The long stay was not all
their fault as there were some problems getting parts quickly and a
last minute discovery of a failed front shock mount didn't help).
Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"
On Jun 18, 2008, at 8:54 PM, David Brady wrote:
Series 60. I thought maybe you were
getting your temps from

VMSpc, or the like. I know my dash gauge reads 6 deg F high.

David Brady

'02 LXi, NC, (I bought the engine, the bus came with it)

Pete Masterson wrote:
Does the 02 have the DD Series 60 or did they move to the
Cummins?

Of course, it's possible that my thermostat is 5 degrees
off, or so -- or myinterpretationis off, since there's no mark
at 190 or 195 -- as I recall, the mark is at 180 and 200...

The radiator guy told me what the thermostats were (OEM
standard by the engine owners manual) but I don't recall exactly what
they are.

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

On Jun 18, 2008, at 8:22 PM, David Brady wrote:

Pete, what thermostat are you
running. My coach likes to run at

195 deg F. It could be that the newer coaches run with a hotter

thermostat.

David Brady

'02 LXi, NC

Pete Masterson wrote:

Water temp hasn't been over 190 or so ever since. On
that first trip, I spent half the time staring at the water temp gauge
as it 'hung' at around 205 or so...
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