Water Pumps & Holding Tanks

[Leroy Eckert]

I see, that should be fine. BB did a fine job thinking through the manufacture of these coaches. Even today they rate far beyond others. Personally, I have some different off the wall theories all of which are based on my personal experience with the coach. So far they have worked. IMO, an air purge system is not required. The low point drain on my coach is in the Propane tank bay. Open that faucet and the two drains in the bedroom, one for the water heater and the other for the pure water tank and there is nothing left. In winter I leave the outside faucet open. Even with residual water in a line there is plenty of room for expansion in the event residual ice forms. With hydronic heat, that has not happened and it's survived 10 degrees. On another issue. GregO's scoop theory agrees with what I have found.There is a vacuum around the coach at normal speeds. I didn't use water gauges or ribbons. I used smoke. Leroy Eckert 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors Dahlonega, GA Royale Conversion --- On Thu, 9/11/08, Kurt Horvath wrote: From: Kurt Horvath Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Water Pumps & Holding Tanks To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 5:09 PM --Leroy, I posted two more photos, Home page, click on new photos or in my album Bumpersbird last two pics. As you can see, I installed a 1/4 air line for each device, one for the water filter and one for the regulator. I ran them through the tunnel into the pump bay and tied them up to the pipe with the Spolan Valve. The line with the schraeder valve is the water filter line and it has to be blocked or it will dump water once the system is active.. The other line is open and is cut off by the regulator and the control switch in the dump bay. The two are no longer connected. If you really needed to you could simply use a ¼ air line connector and reestablish the Air Purge capability. I hadn't thought of it before but you would need to regulate the air pressure if you were to use an outside air source, you would want to blow the plumbing apart! Kurt Horvath 95 PT-42 10AC - In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", Leroy Eckert wrote: > > If I understand it correctly all should be well with the possible exception of a failed check valve that should be attached to the air regulator. Theoretically, I guess, with the air regulator closed completely and a failed check valve, water would not get be able to flood the coach. One way to be certain, and it may be overkill, would be to plug both the purge air line from the switch to the regulator and plug the air inlet side of the regulator as it will never be used again due to the installation of the Schraeder valve. I also removed the old nylon air lines and replaced with 1/4" flared copper. > > I have found that my washer/dryer (curb side) which is plumbed into the curb side black tank keeps that tank very clean. It is backwards from my prints. Kitchen sink and shower (road side)go into the gray tank, and washer/dryer and bathroom sink and toilet to the black tank. This configuration also balances out the tank volume and usage. I have never had any real issues with the monitors either apparently because they remain clean. > > I will state one more time. For those who have an purge air system it would be prudent to perform a minor change to protect the aux air system from water flooding in the event of a check valve failure. If anyone needs real time info on this subject I am sure I am not out of line saying James Barone still has issues because his aux system flooded due to this very problem. I also think Bill Pape in MI has modified his and when he did found a very iffy check valve. > > Leroy Eckert > 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors > Dahlonega, GA > Royale Conversion > > --- On Thu, 9/11/08, Kurt Horvath wrote: > From: Kurt Horvath > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Water Pumps & Holding Tanks > To: "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com" > Date: Thursday, September 11, 2008, 3:08 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Leroy > > > > I have re-plumbed the Air Purge system with 1/4 air lines and routed > > them through to the water pump bay, put a Schraeder valve on the > > water filter side and closed the regulator in case the air purge > > switch gets turned on accidentally. Now it can be purge it from a > > clean air source. More importantly there is no chance of water > > getting into the air systems. > > Just about have the water pump bay finished. It is re-plumbed and the > > new accumulator tank is in and charged to 25 psi. Just have to put > > the pumps in and hook them up. I mounted them to a separate sheet of > > 3/4 plywood so they could be easily remove to be serviced. I used > > reinforced vinyl tubing 210 psi to hook the pumps up to the rest of > > the system using Sea-Tech also known as Watts WaterPEX quick connect > > fittings. They can be used with PEX, CPVC, Copper and the dreaded > > Polybutalyne, you'll need the plastic insert with the Poly. Man are > > these puppies neat they just slip together and they will rotate so if > > your like me and once you've glued together the pipes and you miss > > calculated an angle, there is no problem. They come apart easily and > > will facilitate any future repairs. > > The drain pipe for the washer is on the curb side above the rear tank > > and crosses over to the front tank, into the top of the tank, but > > there is a second drain pipe next to it descending to the top of the > > Black tank. I'll have to do some investigating. It would be easier to > > put a T in the pipe and plumb from there instead of trying to go > > through the top of tank.. > > Kurt Horvath > > 95 PT-42 WLWB > > 10AC > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com, "Kurt Horvath" > > wrote: > > > > > > I don't like the sound of blowing air from the coach systems, > > brakes, > > > air bags, steps etc. into the fresh water system. Anymore than the > > > idea of the water system pumping water into the air system. > > > > > > I think maybe air line fittings with the integral schrader valve on > > > each end of the tubing would solve the problem fast,easy and > > > inexpensive. It would be easy to reattach the tubes in the event > > you > > > had to use it. > > > > > > With the schrader valves you could just air purge the water system > > > from a cleaner air source than from the coach. > > > > > > Kurt Horvath > > > 95 PT-42 > > > 10AC > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com, Leroy Eckert > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > The way the system works is this. > > > > Air is introduced into the water system to blow out excess water > > > for winterization. There should be a check valve near the regulator > > > which prevents water from back flowing into the aux air system. In > > > most coaches that air system includes the air horns, air step , air > > > bags, driving lights, aux air pump, bulk oil fill, fresh air vent > > > system and who knows what else. This check valve is a serious weak > > > link in BB's. If air can be introduced into the water system to > > blow > > > it out, water can be introduced into the aux air system in the > > event > > > of a check valve failure. The check valve is the only line of > > > defense. The air regulator will not prevent water back flow and > > > neither will the purge air switch. > > > > There are a couple of choices. Disconnect the air purge system at > > > the purifier or water filter where ever it is installed and plug it > > > or install a ball valve above the check valve which separates water > > > and air and keep it shut off unless used for winterization. > > > > Everyone who has this system needs to do one or the other. > > Leaving > > > it the way it is is not an option in my opinion. I have installed a > > > ball valve. It is cheap and easy and leaves the original system > > > intact. > > > > Leroy Eckert > > > > 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors > > > > Dahlonega, GA > > > > Royale Conversion > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 9/10/08, Kurt Horvath wrote: > > > > From: Kurt Horvath > > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Water Pumps & Holding Tanks > > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com > > > > Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 11:48 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Guys, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think your right, It could be a real problem if water flowed > > into > > > > > > > > the airlines and tanks. I would imagine that a failure in the > > valve > > > > > > > > would cause an unsafe condition. In my case the pumps are always > > > on, > > > > > > > > but the air system is not always charged, I see where a back flow > > > of > > > > > > > > water would mess up the mix. > > > > > > > > Would it be advisable to unhook the air line and plug it? > > > > > > > > I never winterize my coach she's plugged in and heated, we try to > > > run > > > > > > > > year round. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kurt Horvath > > > > > > > > 95 PT-42 > > > > > > > > 10AC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com, Leroy Eckert > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where is the picture. My regulator looks like one on a standard > > > air > > > > > > > > compressor used to adjust the air exiting the hose. > > > > > > > > > I am going to do a post on this issue. The purge air system is > > a > > > > > > > > weak link in all BB's with winterization blow out systems. Be > > > > > > > > careful, you can create yourself one hell of a problem. > > > > > > > > > Leroy Eckert > > > > > > > > > 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors > > > > > > > > > Dahlonega, GA > > > > > > > > > Royale Conversion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 9/10/08, Kurt Horvath wrote: > > > > > > > > > From: Kurt Horvath > > > > > > > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Water Pumps & Holding Tanks > > > > > > > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 11:11 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Leroy, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I posted a picture of the regulator in question. Let me know > > what > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jay Darst, sorry somehow I manged to post my picture in your > > > album > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I couldn't delet it :{ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > kurt Horvath > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 95 PT-42 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10AC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com, Leroy Eckert > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your coach is much newer than mine. That said, that little > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regulator you are talking about on the filter could be the air > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > regulator for the winterizing blow out system. Better check it > > > out > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > closely. You screw that up, a check valve goes bad and it can > > > load > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > water in the aux air system. You don't even want that to happen > > > and > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > assure you will not like the result.. I am serious. Be careful > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that deal and trace the lines down before doing mods. Mine has > > an > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > additional ball valve added to prevent the problem. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My Splendide dumps into the black tank. The best thing that > > > > > > > > could > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ever happen to a black tank. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Leroy Eckert > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Danlonega, GA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Royale Conversion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 9/10/08, Kurt Horvath wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Kurt Horvath > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Water Pumps & Holding Tanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 10:18 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I started the re-build on the water pumps today. > > > I'm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > happy one of the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pumps failed. What a mess, I'll post before and after shots > > > when > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > get it finished. I have reduced the number on elbows by 80%. > > > > > > > > That > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > should greatly increase the pumps efficiency. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I took the metal cover off the curb side tank bay just to > > make > > > > > > > > sure > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all the pushing and pulling on the pipes didn't loosen > > > anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of course that just presented more opportunities to fix and > > > > > > > > upgrade. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The water filter was the first thing that jumped out at me, I > > > > > > > > will > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > take it out and backwash the filter. I would like to replace > > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sure it's original equipment = 13 + years old. The thing I > > > don't > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anything about is the little pressure regulator or whatever > > it > > > > > > > > is, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mounted to the top of the filter. Obviously it increases or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > decrease > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > pressure but to what end? Also the water pipes are routed to > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > looped around it, so I'm guessing this filters water to a > > > > > > > > specific > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > place. Does anyone know to where? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would like to install a gray water tank over flow pipe. > > Last > > > > > > > > year > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ran a load of laundry and went to breakfast with some > > friends, > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > short time latter a call on the cell and my neighbor was > > > telling > > > > > > > > me > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that the coach was leaking. I ask from where and he responded > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > EVERYWHERE! Well anyway no permanent damage. I thought of > > > dumping > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Slendide washer/dryer, but I like it. So I never have that > > > > > > > > problem > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > again a grey water tank over flow pipe is in the future. I'm > > > sure > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > someone will chime in with the perils of dumping greywater on > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ground. That's not my intention, my intention is to never > > fill > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > interior of my coach with gray water again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kurt Horvath > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 95-PT 42 WLWB > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10AC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Messages in this topic (14) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Database | Polls