6" SS EXHAUST STACK

[David Brady]

It's a little late, I'll have to check my math in the morning,

but for a gas temp of 800 deg F, and a muffler input absolute

pressure of 38psi (when I'm less tired I'll revisit this number, but

I think it's ballpark), and assuming a back pressure of 3 inches

of Hg, and a tube length of 60 inches, I get:



5" diameter: 6500 cfm

6" diameter: 10000 cfm



David

'02 LXi, NC



Kurt Horvath wrote:

DAVID,



WHAT IS THE FLOW RATE FOR 5" and 6" staight pipes, I have a new

86610M I would like to sell it. Evidently were comparing apples and

oranges, If your coach uses a diffrent muffler. All my research has

been for the 95-96 PT 42's and it's systems. I can't help much in

regardes to the other model coaches



Kurt

95 PT 42

10AC



--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com",
David Brady "dmb993@..."

wrote:

>

> For comparison sake, the manufacturer of the OEM muffler

> is Nelson:

>

> http://www.nelsonexhaust.com.au/pdfs/fleetguard.pdf

>

> They don't list the LXi muffler in the above pdf, I'll call on

> Monday to see if I can get some CFM specs from them. The

> closest item in the above pdf is a 6" inlet and outlet straight

> thru muffler measuring 282mm dia and 1130mm length, part

> number 86610M. The OEM LXi muffler measures 300mm

> dia, and 1200mm length.

>

> The above pdf lists CFM specs for part number 86610M as

> follows:

>

> at 3 mm of Hg pressure: cfm = 3700

> at 2 mm of Hg pressure: cfm = 3020

>

> I expect the numbers to be even higher for the stock LXi OEM

> muffler. I'll call to get actual numbers, but these are the kinds
of

> CFM's that we should be looking for. So far I haven't seen any

> 5" mufflers coming close to that kind of flow rate at these

pressures.

>

> David Brady

> '02 LXi, NC

>

> David Brady wrote:

> >

> > Kurt

> >

> > I'm more convinced now that 5" is the standard trucking
muffler

> > size cause they run dual stacks. Donaldson doesn't make a

> > muffler that's suitable for the 14L Series 60, in this case
you

have

> > to use dual 5 inchers if you buy from Donaldson. Again, it
would

> > be interesting to take a look at your typical late model 14L

Series

> > 60 equipped Prevost. I know their mufflers exit below the
bumper,

> > but it would be interesting nonetheless. I'm interested in
all

this cause

> > I'll be needing a muffler change in the near future, so let's


work

> > together

> > to arrive at a good solution. I want more horsepower. Let's
figure

> > out how to improve the breathing. Assuming that the intake is
not

the

> > limiting factor, and I don't think it is, enhancing the
exhaust

should

> > improve performance and engine life, less heat, higher
manifold

> > pressures, better fuel mileage and longer piston and ring
life.

Not

> > trying to get under your skin, just looking for a suitable

improvement in

> > my engine. Your the lucky guy who's gotta travel down this
road

> > first.

> >

> > David

> > '02 LXi, NC

> >

> > Kurt Horvath wrote:

> >

> >>

> >> > But Kurt, it's only 5 inches, correct? The turbo
dumps into

> >> > 5 inches but the gases are hot, low density, low
pressure and

> >> > moving fast. As the exhaust progresses down the
exhaust

> >> > system the air cools, becomes more dense, and back
pressure

> >> Ø increases.

> >> Ø

> >> Ø CORRECT, THAT IS WHY YOU USE EXHAUST BLANKETS ON THE,
MANIFOLD,

> >> TURBO, PIPES, AND STACK TO KEEP THE HEAT INSIDE THE PIPES
FROM

> >> COOLING THUS MAINTAINIG THE VELOCITY OF THE ESCAPING
EXHAUST

> >> Ø

> >> Ø If way down the exhaust you go from 6 to 5 your

> >> Ø increasing the backpressure.

> >> Ø

> >> Ø THE EXHAUST DOES NOT REDUCE DOWN TO 5" FROM 6" IT IS 5"
FROM

TURBO

> >> TO THE END OF THE STACK DICHARGE. A 6" STACK CAN BE BUILT
AS I

> >> DECRIBED BEFOR BUT COSTS ARE DOUBLED. 5' SS TUBE $20 A
FOOT, 6"

SS

> >> TUBE $50 A FOOT

> >> Ø

> >> Ø This will make the exhaust run

> >> > hotter at the turbo, high turbo pyrometer, less
turbo velocity,

> >> > and a reduction in performance. 5 inches is 20
square inches,

> >> > while 6 provides 30, a whopping 50% improvement. I'm
gonna

> >> > stick with the 6 or figure out a way to stuff 2 five
inch

stacks

> >> Ø in the corner of the bus.

> >> Ø

> >> Ø I'M SURE THIS GUY COULD BUILD 2-5" STACKS AND HOOK THEM


TOGETHER

> >> WITH A COLLECTOR AT THE START LIKE HEADERS

> >> Ø

> >> Ø If you take it down to 5 inches, let

> >> > us know if your turbo pyrometer shows excessive
temps on

> >> > those long 6% grades. I think the key is eliminating/reducing

> >> > back pressure.

> >> >

> >> > Do you have a web page for the 5" stack that you'd
like to

> >> Ø use?

> >>

> >> NO THEY DO NOT LIST THE STACK IT IS CUSTOM BUILT

> >> >

> >> Ø Check this out: http://dieselinjection.net/BRUCE/articles.html


> >> <http://dieselinjection.net/BRUCE/articles.html>

> >>

> >> IT WILL TAKE SOME TIME TO ASSIMULATE ALL THAT

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > David

> >> > '02 LXi, NC

> >>

> >> >

> >> > David

> >> > '02 LXi, NC

> >>

> >> --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"


> >> <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
David Brady



> >> wrote:

> >> >

> >> > But Kurt, it's only 5 inches, correct? The turbo
dumps into

> >> > 5 inches but the gases are hot, low density, low
pressure and

> >> > moving fast. As the exhaust progresses down the
exhaust

> >> > system the air cools, becomes more dense, and back
pressure

> >> > increases. If way down the exhaust you go from 6 to
5 your

> >> > increasing the backpressure. This will make the
exhaust run

> >> > hotter at the turbo, high turbo pyrometer, less
turbo velocity,

> >> > and a reduction in performance. 5 inches is 20
square inches,

> >> > while 6 provides 30, a whopping 50% improvement. I'm
gonna

> >> > stick with the 6 or figure out a way to stuff 2 five
inch

stacks

> >> > in the corner of the bus. If you take it down to 5
inches, let

> >> > us know if your turbo pyrometer shows excessive
temps on

> >> > those long 6% grades. I think the key is eliminating/reducing

> >> > back pressure.

> >> >

> >> > Do you have a web page for the 5" stack that you'd
like to

> >> > use?

> >> >

> >> > Check this out: http://dieselinjection.net/BRUCE/articles.html


> >> <http://dieselinjection.net/BRUCE/articles.html>

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > David

> >> > '02 LXi, NC

> >> >

> >> > Kurt Horvath wrote:

> >> > >

> >> > > Gregg,

> >> > >

> >> > > Yea, ALL SHOW AND NO GO!-

> >> > >

> >> > > David,

> >> > >

> >> > > I know what you're after but the pipes I
described are

basically

> >> > > straight pipes with a very well designed sound
surprising

ceramic

> >> > > coating that does not restrict flow. But won't
be as harsh

as a

> >> > > straight pipe. Cost is nominal at $250.00 Vs
$200 for a

straight

> >> pipe

> >> > >

> >> > > Kurt Horvath

> >> > > 95 PT 42

> >> > > 10AC

> >> > >

> >> > > @yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"
wrote:

> >> > > >

> >> > > > Kurt, I dont think big thick straight
pipes were mounted on

> >> those

> >> > > > rigs for performance or efficiency. its
all looks and

> >> compensation.

> >> > > > Bet every trucker with 8 inch stacks also
drive a 4x4

requiring

> >> a

> >> > > > step latter to get into.

> >> > > > Greg 94pt,toyota pickup

> >> > > >

> >> > > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"


> >> <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>

> >> > > <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
"Rob Robinson"

> >> > > > > wrote:

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > Kurt two years ago up here in BC I
saw a millenium

Bluebird

> >> > > parked

> >> > > > across

> >> > > > > from me at my home RV park that had
two stacks. The

owners

> >> were

> >> > > only

> >> > > > > visiting and must have been out sight
seeing most of the

time

> >> > > > because I

> >> > > > > never did see them. I sure would have
like to see behind

their

> >> > > > engine bay.

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > 2008/11/1 Kurt Horvath

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > >

> >> > > > > > I guess you could or go to a
large 8" single , bit the

> >> chrome

> >> > > > shops

> >> > > > > > sell them for outrageous
prices---$692.00

> >> > > > > >

> >> http://www.iowa80.com/DirectionsWEB/webcart_productDisplay.php?


> >> <http://www.iowa80.com/DirectionsWEB/webcart_productDisplay.php?>

> >> > >

<http://www.iowa80.com/DirectionsWEB/webcart_productDisplay.php?


> >> <http://www.iowa80.com/DirectionsWEB/webcart_productDisplay.php?

>>

> >> > > > > > itemid=74151

> >> > > > > > Kurt Horvath

> >> > > > > > 95 PT 42

> >> > > > > > 10AC

> >> > > > > >

> >> > > > > > In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"


> >> <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>

> >> > > <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>



> >> > > > 40yahoogroups.com>,

> >> > > > > > David Brady
wrote:

> >> > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > Now we're talking. Can you
fit two stacks back

there? I'm

> >> > > > > > > serious. This will be an
improvement in performance.

Two

> >> > > stacks

> >> > > > > > > will dramatically reduce
backpressure, which will

result

> >> in

> >> > > > > > > lower turbo pyrometer
temps, and will allow more

boost and

> >> > > > > > > more power. A single 5
inch, as compared to the

stock 6"

> >> > > > > > > will do the reverse.

> >> > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > David

> >> > > > > > > '02 LXi, NC

> >> > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > Kurt Horvath wrote:

> >> > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > One pipe from the
turbo then splits to two stacks.

> >> > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > Kurt Horvath

> >> > > > > > > > 95 PT 42

> >> > > > > > > > 10AC

> >> > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"


> >> <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>

> >> > > <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com><WanderlodgeForum%

> >> > > > 40yahoogroups.com>

> >> > > > > > > > <"Wanderlodge"Forum%

> >> 40yahoogroups.comorum%

> >> > > > 2540yahoogroups.com>>,

> >> > > > > > David Brady

> >> > > > > > > > wrote:

> >> > > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > > But doesn't the
trucking industry run dual

exhausts?

> >> > > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > > David Brady

> >> > > > > > > > > '02 LXi, NC

> >> > > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > > Pete Masterson
wrote:

> >> > > > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > > > Having
recently replaced my muffler (at great

> >> expense) -

> >> > > -

> >> > > > had

> >> > > > > > I

> >> > > > > > > > to do

> >> > > > > > > > > > it over
again, I'd have switched over to a 5"

system

> >> > > from

> >> > > > > > turbo to

> >> > > > > > > > > > stack. As
others have stated, it's 5" at the

turbo

> >> > > outlet

> >> > > > and

> >> > > > > > the

> >> > > > > > > > > > standard in
the heavy truck industry is 5".

> >> > > > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > > > The only
performance difference I notice

(between

> >> the

> >> > > old

> >> > > > > > blown

> >> > > > > > > > out

> >> > > > > > > > > > muffler and
the new one) is that the exhaust-

type

> >> Jake

> >> > > > brake

> >> > > > > > > > seems to

> >> > > > > > > > > > be slightly
less effective.

> >> > > > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > > > Pete
Masterson

> >> > > > > > > > > > '95 Blue
Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

> >> > > > > > > > > > aeonix1@
<"aeonix1%"40mac.com
> >> > > 2540mac.com>>

> >> > > > > > > > > > On the road
at Hohenwald, TN (Natchez Trace

Parkway)

> >> > > > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > > > On Oct 31,
2008, at 11:24 PM, Kurt Horvath

wrote:

> >> > > > > > > > > > >
<snip>

> >> > > > > > > > > > > For the
last four weeks I have queried

Detroit

> >> Diesel,

> >> > > > > > Custom

> >> > > > > > > > Exhaust

> >> > > > > > > > > > >
Fabricators, Several OEM Exhaust Mfg.'s,

Marine

> >> > > Exhaust

> >> > > > > > > > Engineers &

> >> > > > > > > > > > >
Fabricators, My BB Guru, and anyone else that

> >> would

> >> > > > lend an

> >> > > > > > > > ear, and

> >> > > > > > > > > > > no one
has expressed any apprehension or

regard

> >> in the

> >> > > > > > respect

> >> > > > > > > > to a

> >> > > > > > > > > > > 5"
exhaust system. In fact all parties

expressed

> >> their

> >> > > > > > surprise

> >> > > > > > > > in

> >> > > > > > > > > > > respect
as to why the system would change

size at

> >> the

> >> > > > > > muffler.

> >> > > > > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > > > > Several
owners have modified their systems

to 5"

> >> from

> >> > > > end to

> >> > > > > > > > end, and

> >> > > > > > > > > > > have
seen no change in performance. Positive

or

> >> > > > negative, In

> >> > > > > > > > general

> >> > > > > > > > > > > it was
just a matter of convenience in

acquiring

> >> > > parts,

> >> > > > I

> >> > > > > > won't

> >> > > > > > > > get

> >> > > > > > > > > > > into
that. That has recently been beaten to

death

> >> at

> >> > > the

> >> > > > > > > > expense of

> >> > > > > > > > > > > all
parties involved

> >> > > > > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > > > -----------------------------------------------

-----

> >> ----

> >> > > --

> >> > > > > > > > ------

> >> > > > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > > > Internal
Virus Database is out-of-date.

> >> > > > > > > > > > Checked by
AVG.

> >> > > > > > > > > > Version:
7.5.405 / Virus Database:

270.8.0/1715 -

> >> > > Release

> >> > > > > > Date:

> >> > > > > > > > 10/9/2008 12:00 AM

> >> > > > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------

-----

> >> --

> >> > > > > > ------

> >> > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > > > Internal Virus
Database is out-of-date.

> >> > > > > > > > Checked by AVG.

> >> > > > > > > > Version: 7.5.405 /
Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 -

> >> Release

> >> > > > Date:

> >> > > > > > 10/9/2008 12:00 AM

> >> > > > > > > >

> >> > > > > > >

> >> > > > > >

> >> > > > > >

> >> > > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > >

> >> > > > > --

> >> > > > > Rob, Sue & Merlin Robinson

> >> > > > > 94 WLWB

> >> > > > >

> >> > > >

> >> > >

> >> > >

> >> > > ----------------------------------------------------------

> >> ------

> >> > >

> >> > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> >> > > Checked by AVG.

> >> > > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715
- Release

Date:

> >> 10/9/2008 12:00 AM

> >> > >

> >> >

> >>

> >> ----------------------------------------------------------

-------

> >>

> >> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> >> Checked by AVG.

> >> Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release
Date:

10/9/2008 12:00 AM

> >>

> >

> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------

------

> >

> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > Checked by AVG.

> > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release
Date:

10/9/2008 12:00 AM

> >

>

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date: 10/9/2008 12:00 AM