6" SS EXHAUST STACK

[David Brady]

I agree, flow is what's important. Also you need to keep in

mind that many of these numbers are derived from mathematical

models; therefor, you must build in a margin of safety. For

this reason I won't accept a muffler that will flow 2877cfm,

but I'll accept one that publishes a flow number of 1.5 times

2877cfm. Another thing is that truck exhausts are heavier

construction than auto exhausts. I've inspected my Nelson,

part no. 28214A, and it is good quality. I wouldn't use any

automotive components. IMO, they won't hold up. Otherwise

I suppose you are right, it's pointless to further discuss muffler

selection.



David

'02 LXi, NC



Kurt Horvath wrote:

David,



The Max exhaust outflow from a DD S-60 470 HP motor is 2877 CFM @

875degrees F. these numbers are the same for the 500 HP version..



Then from your calculations of 5" diameter:= 6500 cfm & 6"

diameter:= 10000 5" diameter: 6500 cfm 6" diameter: 10000 cfm you can

extrapolate, the 5" pipe has more than 2.25929 times more capacity

to exhaust the gases the Series 60 is capable of producing and the 6"

has nearly 3.47584 times more capacity than the engine can produce.

If calculate in . back pressure of 2 inches of Hg:5" diameter: 5500

cfm 6" diameter: 8750 cfm. You are still under max. capacity The

flow may be further enhanced by the use of Ceramic Coatings or

Thermal Blankets. To retain flow velocity. I intend to employ both.



Mufflers should be based on flow capacity rather than size because

engines are flow sensitive, not size sensitive. This being so, why

should the same not apply to the selection of mufflers? The answer

is that it should, as the engine's output is influenced minimally by

size but dramatically by flow capability. Buying a muffler based on

pipe diameter has no performance merit. The only reason you need to

know the muffler pipe size is for fitment purposes. The engine cares

little what size the muffler pipe diameters are but it certainly does

care what the muffler flows and muffler flow is largely dictated by

the design of the innards.



I have review all the available mufflers from all mentioned sources,

Fleetgaurd, Nelson, Donaldson and several custom Mfg.'s. I decided to

go with a mfg. Outside the box, who manufacture mufflers for race &


show cars. His design is basically a straight pipe. So to continue

discussing mufflers isn't where I'm going, I don't intend to use a

muffler. I am going to use a pipe that doesn't restrict flow but will

reduce SOME of the noise. Nothing more.



Honestly I would not use anything from any of the typical sources,

due to the one size fits all mentality and the materials used in

their Mfg. . That is not Stainless and the mediocre quality accepted

as OEM quality.



Whether you go 5" or 6" in a Straight Stack it will more than handle

the load.



Kurt Horvath

95 PT 42

10AC



--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com",
David Brady "dmb993@..."

wrote:

>

> And at a back pressure of 2 inches of Hg:

>

> 5" diameter: 5500 cfm

> 6" diameter: 8750 cfm

>

> I think the work you are doing is applicable to my BB. It's

> not quite apples and oranges. Do you have a source for a

> 5" stainless steel straight thru pipe? If you do, I'd like to have

> it. Looking forward to you letting us know how loud a straight

> thru pipe is!

>

> David

> '02 LXi, NC

>

> David Brady wrote:

> >

> > It's a little late, I'll have to check my math in the morning,

> > but for a gas temp of 800 deg F, and a muffler input absolute

> > pressure of 38psi (when I'm less tired I'll revisit this
number,

but

> > I think it's ballpark), and assuming a back pressure of 3
inches

> > of Hg, and a tube length of 60 inches, I get:

> >

> > 5" diameter: 6500 cfm

> > 6" diameter: 10000 cfm

> >

> > David

> > '02 LXi, NC

> >

> > Kurt Horvath wrote:

> >

> >> DAVID,

> >>

> >> WHAT IS THE FLOW RATE FOR 5" and 6" staight pipes, I have
a new

> >> 86610M I would like to sell it. Evidently were comparing
apples

and

> >> oranges, If your coach uses a diffrent muffler. All my
research

has

> >> been for the 95-96 PT 42's and it's systems. I can't help
much in

> >> regardes to the other model coaches

> >>

> >> Kurt

> >> 95 PT 42

> >> 10AC

> >>

> >> --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"


> >> <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
David Brady



> >> wrote:

> >> >

> >> > For comparison sake, the manufacturer of the OEM
muffler

> >> > is Nelson:

> >> >

> >> > http://www.nelsonexhaust.com.au/pdfs/fleetguard.pdf


> >> <http://www.nelsonexhaust.com.au/pdfs/fleetguard.pdf>

> >> >

> >> > They don't list the LXi muffler in the above pdf,
I'll call on

> >> > Monday to see if I can get some CFM specs from them.
The

> >> > closest item in the above pdf is a 6" inlet and
outlet straight

> >> > thru muffler measuring 282mm dia and 1130mm length,
part

> >> > number 86610M. The OEM LXi muffler measures 300mm

> >> > dia, and 1200mm length.

> >> >

> >> > The above pdf lists CFM specs for part number 86610M
as

> >> > follows:

> >> >

> >> > at 3 mm of Hg pressure: cfm = 3700

> >> > at 2 mm of Hg pressure: cfm = 3020

> >> >

> >> > I expect the numbers to be even higher for the stock
LXi OEM

> >> > muffler. I'll call to get actual numbers, but these
are the

kinds of

> >> > CFM's that we should be looking for. So far I
haven't seen any

> >> > 5" mufflers coming close to that kind of flow rate
at these

> >> pressures.

> >> >

> >> > David Brady

> >> > '02 LXi, NC

> >> >

> >> > David Brady wrote:

> >> > >

> >> > > Kurt

> >> > >

> >> > > I'm more convinced now that 5" is the standard
trucking

muffler

> >> > > size cause they run dual stacks. Donaldson
doesn't make a

> >> > > muffler that's suitable for the 14L Series 60,
in this case

you

> >> have

> >> > > to use dual 5 inchers if you buy from
Donaldson. Again, it

would

> >> > > be interesting to take a look at your typical
late model 14L

> >> Series

> >> > > 60 equipped Prevost. I know their mufflers exit
below the

bumper,

> >> > > but it would be interesting nonetheless. I'm
interested in

all

> >> this cause

> >> > > I'll be needing a muffler change in the near
future, so let's

> >> work

> >> > > together

> >> > > to arrive at a good solution. I want more
horsepower. Let's

figure

> >> > > out how to improve the breathing. Assuming that
the intake

is not

> >> the

> >> > > limiting factor, and I don't think it is,
enhancing the

exhaust

> >> should

> >> > > improve performance and engine life, less heat,
higher

manifold

> >> > > pressures, better fuel mileage and longer
piston and ring

life.

> >> Not

> >> > > trying to get under your skin, just looking for
a suitable

> >> improvement in

> >> > > my engine. Your the lucky guy who's gotta
travel down this

road

> >> > > first.

> >> > >

> >> > > David

> >> > > '02 LXi, NC

> >> > >

> >> > > Kurt Horvath wrote:

> >> > >

> >> > >>

> >> > >> > But Kurt, it's only 5 inches, correct?
The turbo dumps

into

> >> > >> > 5 inches but the gases are hot, low
density, low pressure

and

> >> > >> > moving fast. As the exhaust progresses
down the exhaust

> >> > >> > system the air cools, becomes more
dense, and back

pressure

> >> > >> Ø increases.

> >> > >> Ø

> >> > >> Ø CORRECT, THAT IS WHY YOU USE EXHAUST
BLANKETS ON THE,

MANIFOLD,

> >> > >> TURBO, PIPES, AND STACK TO KEEP THE HEAT
INSIDE THE PIPES

FROM

> >> > >> COOLING THUS MAINTAINIG THE VELOCITY OF THE
ESCAPING EXHAUST

> >> > >> Ø

> >> > >> Ø If way down the exhaust you go from 6 to
5 your

> >> > >> Ø increasing the backpressure.

> >> > >> Ø

> >> > >> Ø THE EXHAUST DOES NOT REDUCE DOWN TO 5"
FROM 6" IT IS 5"

FROM

> >> TURBO

> >> > >> TO THE END OF THE STACK DICHARGE. A 6"
STACK CAN BE BUILT

AS I

> >> > >> DECRIBED BEFOR BUT COSTS ARE DOUBLED. 5' SS
TUBE $20 A

FOOT, 6"

> >> SS

> >> > >> TUBE $50 A FOOT

> >> > >> Ø

> >> > >> Ø This will make the exhaust run

> >> > >> > hotter at the turbo, high turbo
pyrometer, less turbo

velocity,

> >> > >> > and a reduction in performance. 5
inches is 20 square

inches,

> >> > >> > while 6 provides 30, a whopping 50%
improvement. I'm gonna

> >> > >> > stick with the 6 or figure out a way
to stuff 2 five inch

> >> stacks

> >> > >> Ø in the corner of the bus.

> >> > >> Ø

> >> > >> Ø I'M SURE THIS GUY COULD BUILD 2-5" STACKS
AND HOOK THEM

> >> TOGETHER

> >> > >> WITH A COLLECTOR AT THE START LIKE HEADERS

> >> > >> Ø

> >> > >> Ø If you take it down to 5 inches, let

> >> > >> > us know if your turbo pyrometer shows
excessive temps on

> >> > >> > those long 6% grades. I think the key
is

eliminating/reducing

> >> > >> > back pressure.

> >> > >> >

> >> > >> > Do you have a web page for the 5"
stack that you'd like to

> >> > >> Ø use?

> >> > >>

> >> > >> NO THEY DO NOT LIST THE STACK IT IS CUSTOM
BUILT

> >> > >> >

> >> > >> Ø Check this out:

http://dieselinjection.net/BRUCE/articles.html


> >> <http://dieselinjection.net/BRUCE/articles.html>

> >> > >> <http://dieselinjection.net/BRUCE/articles.html


> >> <http://dieselinjection.net/BRUCE/articles.html>>

> >> > >>

> >> > >> IT WILL TAKE SOME TIME TO ASSIMULATE ALL
THAT

> >> > >> >

> >> > >> >

> >> > >> > David

> >> > >> > '02 LXi, NC

> >> > >>

> >> > >> >

> >> > >> > David

> >> > >> > '02 LXi, NC

> >> > >>

> >> > >> --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"


> >> <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>

> >> > >> <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
David Brady

> >>

> >> > >> wrote:

> >> > >> >

> >> > >> > But Kurt, it's only 5 inches, correct?
The turbo dumps

into

> >> > >> > 5 inches but the gases are hot, low
density, low pressure

and

> >> > >> > moving fast. As the exhaust progresses
down the exhaust

> >> > >> > system the air cools, becomes more
dense, and back

pressure

> >> > >> > increases. If way down the exhaust you
go from 6 to 5 your

> >> > >> > increasing the backpressure. This will
make the exhaust

run

> >> > >> > hotter at the turbo, high turbo
pyrometer, less turbo

velocity,

> >> > >> > and a reduction in performance. 5
inches is 20 square

inches,

> >> > >> > while 6 provides 30, a whopping 50%
improvement. I'm gonna

> >> > >> > stick with the 6 or figure out a way
to stuff 2 five inch

> >> stacks

> >> > >> > in the corner of the bus. If you take
it down to 5

inches, let

> >> > >> > us know if your turbo pyrometer shows
excessive temps on

> >> > >> > those long 6% grades. I think the key
is

eliminating/reducing

> >> > >> > back pressure.

> >> > >> >

> >> > >> > Do you have a web page for the 5"
stack that you'd like to

> >> > >> > use?

> >> > >> >

> >> > >> > Check this out:

http://dieselinjection.net/BRUCE/articles.html


> >> <http://dieselinjection.net/BRUCE/articles.html>

> >> > >> <http://dieselinjection.net/BRUCE/articles.html


> >> <http://dieselinjection.net/BRUCE/articles.html>>

> >> > >> >

> >> > >> >

> >> > >> > David

> >> > >> > '02 LXi, NC

> >> > >> >

> >> > >> > Kurt Horvath wrote:

> >> > >> > >

> >> > >> > > Gregg,

> >> > >> > >

> >> > >> > > Yea, ALL SHOW AND NO GO!-

> >> > >> > >

> >> > >> > > David,

> >> > >> > >

> >> > >> > > I know what you're after but the
pipes I described are

> >> basically

> >> > >> > > straight pipes with a very well
designed sound

surprising

> >> ceramic

> >> > >> > > coating that does not restrict
flow. But won't be as

harsh

> >> as a

> >> > >> > > straight pipe. Cost is nominal at
$250.00 Vs $200 for a

> >> straight

> >> > >> pipe

> >> > >> > >

> >> > >> > > Kurt Horvath

> >> > >> > > 95 PT 42

> >> > >> > > 10AC

> >> > >> > >

> >> > >> > > @yahoogroups.com, "Gregory
OConnor" wrote:

> >> > >> > > >

> >> > >> > > > Kurt, I dont think big thick
straight pipes were

mounted on

> >> > >> those

> >> > >> > > > rigs for performance or
efficiency. its all looks and

> >> > >> compensation.

> >> > >> > > > Bet every trucker with 8
inch stacks also drive a 4x4

> >> requiring

> >> > >> a

> >> > >> > > > step latter to get into.

> >> > >> > > > Greg 94pt,toyota pickup

> >> > >> > > >

> >> > >> > > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"


> >> <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>

> >> > >> <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>

> >> > >> > > <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>,
"Rob

Robinson"

> >> > >> > > > >
wrote:

> >> > >> > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > Kurt two years ago up
here in BC I saw a millenium

> >> Bluebird

> >> > >> > > parked

> >> > >> > > > across

> >> > >> > > > > from me at my home RV
park that had two stacks. The

> >> owners

> >> > >> were

> >> > >> > > only

> >> > >> > > > > visiting and must have
been out sight seeing most

of the

> >> time

> >> > >> > > > because I

> >> > >> > > > > never did see them. I
sure would have like to see

behind

> >> their

> >> > >> > > > engine bay.

> >> > >> > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > 2008/11/1 Kurt Horvath


> >> > >> > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > > I guess you could
or go to a large 8" single ,

bit the

> >> > >> chrome

> >> > >> > > > shops

> >> > >> > > > > > sell them for
outrageous prices---$692.00

> >> > >> > > > > >

> >> > >>

http://www.iowa80.com/DirectionsWEB/webcart_productDisplay.php?


> >> <http://www.iowa80.com/DirectionsWEB/webcart_productDisplay.php?>

> >> > >>

<http://www.iowa80.com/DirectionsWEB/webcart_productDisplay.php?


> >> <http://www.iowa80.com/DirectionsWEB/webcart_productDisplay.php?

>>

> >> > >> > >

> >> <http://www.iowa80.com/DirectionsWEB/webcart_productDisplay.php?


> >> <http://www.iowa80.com/DirectionsWEB/webcart_productDisplay.php?>

> >> > >>

<http://www.iowa80.com/DirectionsWEB/webcart_productDisplay.php?


> >> <http://www.iowa80.com/DirectionsWEB/webcart_productDisplay.php?>

> >> >>

> >> > >> > > > > > itemid=74151

> >> > >> > > > > > Kurt Horvath

> >> > >> > > > > > 95 PT 42

> >> > >> > > > > > 10AC

> >> > >> > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > > In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"


> >> <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>

> >> > >> <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>

> >> > >> > > <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>

> >>
> >> > >> > > > 40yahoogroups.com>,

> >> > >> > > > > > David Brady
wrote:

> >> > >> > > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > > > Now we're
talking. Can you fit two stacks back

> >> there? I'm

> >> > >> > > > > > > serious. This
will be an improvement in

performance.

> >> Two

> >> > >> > > stacks

> >> > >> > > > > > > will
dramatically reduce backpressure, which

will

> >> result

> >> > >> in

> >> > >> > > > > > > lower turbo
pyrometer temps, and will allow more

> >> boost and

> >> > >> > > > > > > more power. A
single 5 inch, as compared to the

> >> stock 6"

> >> > >> > > > > > > will do the
reverse.

> >> > >> > > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > > > David

> >> > >> > > > > > > '02 LXi, NC

> >> > >> > > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > > > Kurt Horvath
wrote:

> >> > >> > > > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > > > > One pipe
from the turbo then splits to two

stacks.

> >> > >> > > > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > > > > Kurt
Horvath

> >> > >> > > > > > > > 95 PT 42

> >> > >> > > > > > > > 10AC

> >> > >> > > > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > > > > --- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"


> >> <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>

> >> > >> <"Wanderlodge"Forum%40yahoogroups.com>

> >> > >> > > <"Wanderlodge"Forum%

40yahoogroups.com>Forum%

> >> > >> > > > 40yahoogroups.com>

> >> > >> > > > > > > >
<"Wanderlodge"Forum%

> >> > >> 40yahoogroups.comorum%

> >> > >> > > > 2540yahoogroups.com>>,

> >> > >> > > > > > David Brady


> >> > >> > > > > > > > wrote:

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > > > > > But
doesn't the trucking industry run dual

> >> exhausts?

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
David Brady

> >> > >> > > > > > > > > '02
LXi, NC

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
Pete Masterson wrote:

> >> > >> > > > > > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> Having recently replaced my muffler (at

great

> >> > >> expense) -

> >> > >> > > -

> >> > >> > > > had

> >> > >> > > > > > I

> >> > >> > > > > > > > to do

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> it over again, I'd have switched over to

a 5"

> >> system

> >> > >> > > from

> >> > >> > > > > > turbo to

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> stack. As others have stated, it's 5" at

the

> >> turbo

> >> > >> > > outlet

> >> > >> > > > and

> >> > >> > > > > > the

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> standard in the heavy truck industry is

5".

> >> > >> > > > > > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> The only performance difference I notice

> >> (between

> >> > >> the

> >> > >> > > old

> >> > >> > > > > > blown

> >> > >> > > > > > > > out

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> muffler and the new one) is that the

exhaust-

> >> type

> >> > >> Jake

> >> > >> > > > brake

> >> > >> > > > > > > > seems to

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> be slightly less effective.

> >> > >> > > > > > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> Pete Masterson

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> aeonix1@ <"aeonix1%"40mac.com


> >> > >> > > 2540mac.com>>

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> On the road at Hohenwald, TN (Natchez

Trace

> >> Parkway)

> >> > >> > > > > > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> On Oct 31, 2008, at 11:24 PM, Kurt Horvath

> >> wrote:

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> > <snip>

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> > For the last four weeks I have queried

> >> Detroit

> >> > >> Diesel,

> >> > >> > > > > > Custom

> >> > >> > > > > > > > Exhaust

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> > Fabricators, Several OEM Exhaust Mfg.'s,

> >> Marine

> >> > >> > > Exhaust

> >> > >> > > > > > > >
Engineers &

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> > Fabricators, My BB Guru, and anyone

else that

> >> > >> would

> >> > >> > > > lend an

> >> > >> > > > > > > > ear, and

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> > no one has expressed any apprehension or

> >> regard

> >> > >> in the

> >> > >> > > > > > respect

> >> > >> > > > > > > > to a

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> > 5" exhaust system. In fact all parties

> >> expressed

> >> > >> their

> >> > >> > > > > > surprise

> >> > >> > > > > > > > in

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> > respect as to why the system would

change

> >> size at

> >> > >> the

> >> > >> > > > > > muffler.

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> >

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> > Several owners have modified their

systems

> >> to 5"

> >> > >> from

> >> > >> > > > end to

> >> > >> > > > > > > > end, and

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> > have seen no change in performance.

Positive

> >> or

> >> > >> > > > negative, In

> >> > >> > > > > > > > general

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> > it was just a matter of convenience in

> >> acquiring

> >> > >> > > parts,

> >> > >> > > > I

> >> > >> > > > > > won't

> >> > >> > > > > > > > get

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> > into that. That has recently been

beaten to

> >> death

> >> > >> at

> >> > >> > > the

> >> > >> > > > > > > > expense
of

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> > all parties involved

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> >

> >> > >> > > > > > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> ------------------------------------------

-----

> >> -----

> >> > >> ----

> >> > >> > > --

> >> > >> > > > > > > > ------

> >> > >> > > > > > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> Checked by AVG.

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database:

> >> 270.8.0/1715 -

> >> > >> > > Release

> >> > >> > > > > > Date:

> >> > >> > > > > > > >
10/9/2008 12:00 AM

> >> > >> > > > > > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > > > >
----------------------------------------------

-----

> >> -----

> >> > >> --

> >> > >> > > > > > ------

> >> > >> > > > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > > > > Internal
Virus Database is out-of-date.

> >> > >> > > > > > > > Checked
by AVG.

> >> > >> > > > > > > > Version:
7.5.405 / Virus Database:

270.8.0/1715 -

> >> > >> Release

> >> > >> > > > Date:

> >> > >> > > > > > 10/9/2008 12:00 AM

> >> > >> > > > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > >

> >> > >> > > > >

> >> > >> > > > >

> >> > >> > > > >

> >> > >> > > > > --

> >> > >> > > > > Rob, Sue & Merlin
Robinson

> >> > >> > > > > 94 WLWB

> >> > >> > > > >

> >> > >> > > >

> >> > >> > >

> >> > >> > >

> >> > >> > > --------------------------------------------------------

--

> >> > >> ------

> >> > >> > >

> >> > >> > > Internal Virus Database is
out-of-date.

> >> > >> > > Checked by AVG.

> >> > >> > > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus
Database: 270.8.0/1715 -

Release

> >> Date:

> >> > >> 10/9/2008 12:00 AM

> >> > >> > >

> >> > >> >

> >> > >>

> >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------

> >> -------

> >> > >>

> >> > >> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> >> > >> Checked by AVG.

> >> > >> Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database:
270.8.0/1715 - Release

Date:

> >> 10/9/2008 12:00 AM

> >> > >>

> >> > >

> >> > >

> >> > > ----------------------------------------------------------

> >> ------

> >> > >

> >> > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> >> > > Checked by AVG.

> >> > > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715
- Release

Date:

> >> 10/9/2008 12:00 AM

> >> > >

> >> >

> >>

> >> ----------------------------------------------------------

-------

> >>

> >> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> >> Checked by AVG.

> >> Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release
Date:

10/9/2008 12:00 AM

> >>

> >

> >

> > ----------------------------------------------------------

------

> >

> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

> > Checked by AVG.

> > Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release
Date:

10/9/2008 12:00 AM

> >

>

Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.

Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.405 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1715 - Release Date: 10/9/2008 12:00 AM