Most miles before engine rebuild/replacement

[Pete Masterson]

Your radiator probably needs a very thorough cleaning. Your heating sounds like what I experienced on my maiden trip -- engine would creep up to 210-220 (and eventually the check engine light would come on)... Oil temp would creep up to 240-250. On the gentle, but constant grade from Kansas into Denver, CO on I-70, the temperature held at about 205-210 with aux. fan on. I recall constantly watching it -- but it was never quite beyond the "normal" operating range as listed in the owner's manual. On the maiden trip, I had to stop several times while dealing with long grades in eastern Nevada to let it cool down.

When my radiator was inspected in place (shining a bring light through it), it looked clean. But you can't see well from the outside -- because the air-charge cooler (a type of radiator) is in front (and it doesn't collect the oily-dirt). Looking from the inside, the chassis AC condenser and the fan shroud blocked a good view. But when the radiator was pulled out, only the area swept by the fan was clear -- everywhere else was completely blocked by oily-dirt (it was pretty solid in there). The oily dirt builds up slowly over time.

If it's heavily impacted, it will be difficult to clean. I spray simple green into the radiator and use a garden hose to wash it out before each big trip. (Take off the grill.) I've also had the radiator steam cleaned when I've had the engine and undercarriage steam cleaned.

If you use a pressure washer, take care to not damage the fins, they bend really easy so that's why I only use a relatively low pressure garden hose spray.

After getting my radiator core replaced, I now run all day at 180 water and oil goes to about 210 with the aux fan switch OFF. Only heavy grades will bring the temperature up (and then I switch on the aux fan) -- water will go above 190 (but rarely reaches 200) and the oil will come up to 220-230. If the oil gets above 230, I take measures to control heat (slow down, use a lower gear ... or pull off in a shoulder/wide spot for 3 or 4 minutes to get the oil temperature down). Most grades I can hold about 45 mph -- but on longer grades (or on very warm afternoons) 35 to 40 becomes the speed where temperatures remain under better control. (I've never seen the transmission fluid temperature get above 175 and it usually hangs around 150-160.)

If possible, when I know a route has a long, heavy grade, I try to plan my schedule to run it before noon when ambient temperatures are usually more moderate. (But the grades approaching the Oregon-California border on I-5 are almost always encountered late in the day...)

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42 (For Sale)

<http://www.aeonix.biz/BBforsale.html>

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

On Jan 1, 2009, at 1:35 PM, Kurt Horvath wrote:

I had priced out radiator cores just before X-Mass for my coach PT 42 

S-60 DD The core from Detroit Radiator was $2100.00 That was with the 

dimpled tubes. Dan at Chicago Radiator said he could ship me a Core 

the next day for $ 1495.00 Prolience is the Co who took over the G&O 

Co. the was my coaches OEM Mfg. Old number for the Rad was G & O, X-

3190. I'm not sure but the new Prolience Number is X226894 for 

$1890.22 It seems as the price of $3500.00 doesn't sound out of line. 

When labor is thrown in. My core has a top and bottom tank 72 bolts 

on each, there's a few hours labor just there. 7K does sound a bit 

high, for me anyway. My coach will get hot if the Aux. Fan is off. 

When on she runs 190 engine coolant 202 engine oil all day long. If I 

switch it off she creeps up to 225 coolant and 250 oil temp. Then the 

dreaded check engine lights up. Not real sure what my problem is, 

Water pump, old coolant, radiator, just getting into it, any ideas?

Kurt Horvath

95 PT 42

10AC

--- In "WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com", "Scott Forman" 

<scottforman75@...> wrote:

I had my rad done last summer.  New core, fabrication of a new 

bottom 

tank, and all new lines, hoses, etc. in that rea while the rad was 

out.  The total bill came in at about $7,300.

Scott Forman

86 PT38

Memphis

--- In "WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com", "Joyce and Richard Hayden" 

wrote:

If I might jump in here with my experiences on this subject.  

Summer before last I found that our radiator needed to be 

replaced.  

I had had good experiences with Performance Radiator in Everett, WA 

when our FC needed radiator attention.  As I recall the new core, 

using the old tanks, cost around $3800 for the radiator work only.  

I 

delivered to their shop and picked it up.  I did the removal and 

installation myself in the "Birdhouse" which has a nice flat 

floor.  

I point that out because the thing is very heavy and not something 

I 

could have managed alone were it not for the nice floor.  I used a 

ATV jack to do the heavy lifting.  I just had to balance it.  

While the radiator was out I replaced all of the 1 inch heater 

hoses in the engine room with silicone hose, removed and replaced 

all 

of the insulation and cleaned and painted the surfaces that I 

couldn't get to when the radiator was in place.  I don't remember 

what the total came to with all of the extra work and can't look it 

up just now since the bus is in Yuma and I'm at home.  

The radiator was necessary and the hoses were to the point of 

needing replaced as they were getting hard and brittle due to the 

heat.  As with most of our coaches the insulation was completely 

shot 

and a mess and badly needed attention.  The painting was not really 

necessary and involved mostly my time but it sure looks nice.  

I believe Performance Radiator is a west coast operation and I've 

seen their ads in Yuma.

Good luck Bob.

Dick Hayden - '87 PT 38 - Lake Stevens, WA

----- Original Message ----- 

  From: Pete Masterson<"aeonix1"@> 

  To: 

WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com<"WanderlodgeForum"@...

om> 

  Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 10:13 AM

  Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Most miles before engine 

rebuild/replacement

  Well, in that case, it seems a rather high. When I researched 

the 

matter, there was a radiator core place  (they manufactured 

radiator 

cores, whom I no longer remember*) that referred me to several 

northern California radiator shops, including the one I eventually 

used.  

  * I _think_ I got the name from one of the Blue Bird lists, way 

back when... I don't see any references in  my saved files, though.

  A price of $800 plus shipping comes to mind for what my core 

cost. Even with the considerable increase in some materials prices, 

a 

400+ percent increase doesn't seem reasonable.

  You might discuss what core manufacturer they're using and it 

might be worth searching the Internet for radiator cores for 

busses. 

I found these:

<http://www.completeradiators.com/radiatorcores.asp<http://www.complet

eradiators.com/radiatorcores.asp>> with a specific mention of the 

DD 

Series 60...

  and 

<http://radiatorgroup.com/238559bluebirdbusradiator.aspx<http://radiat

orgroup.com/238559bluebirdbusradiator.aspx>> but this one looks 

more 

like what you'd put in an FC...

  This link has Blue Bird "truck" radiators:

<http://detroitradiatorcorp.com/11_2_1.htm<http://detroitradiatorcorp.

com/11_2_1.htm>>

  This outfit has a radiator assembly (rebuilt and used) for 6v92:

<http://www.capbusparts.com/Sec06/s6p4a.html<http://www.capbusparts.co

m/Sec06/s6p4a.html>>

  I'm wondering if the price differential might be in part due to 

the 6v92 being so long out of production...?

  Pete Masterson

  '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42 (For Sale)

<http://www.aeonix.biz/BBforsale.html<http://www.aeonix.biz/BBforsale.

html>>

  El Sobrante CA

  aeonix1@<"aeonix1"@>

  On Dec 31, 2008, at 7:32 PM, Bob Lawrence wrote:

    Hi Pete,

    No, the price of $3,500 was just for the rad. No labor. 

Altho, 

    Richard, who did mine works for $35 per hour. Can't beat that!

    Bob Lawrence

    84 PT36

    Padre Island,Tex

      It's been 2-1/2 years since I had to work done, so my 

recollection 

    is  

      a bit sketchy. (I have the receipt somewhere, but I really 

don't 

    want  

      to look for it.)

      The bill ended up costing about $4600 -- with $1000 being 

work on 

    the  

      AC system (that wasn't related to the R&R of the radiator). 

Most 

    of  

      the cost was labor (at SF Bay Area rates) and I believe 

that 

the 

    new  

      core was about $1000 with about $2600 labor to remove and 

replace 

    all  

      the stuff -- the air charge radiator had to come out as 

it's 

part 

    of  

      the same assembly.

      I expect that a core might be a lot more expensive now 

(aluminum?  

      brass?) -- and I'd think that labor in Corpus Christi is a 

bit 

    lower  

      than here. I think the S-60 radiator is a little larger 

(but 

big 

    is  

      big) -- and other costs of the R&R might be different in an 

S-

60 

    vs.  

      an 8v92.

      So, if the $3,500 includes R&R plus the new radiator core --

it's  

      probably a fair price.

      Pete Masterson

      '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42 (For Sale)

<http://www.aeonix.biz/BBforsale.html<http://www.aeonix.biz/BBforsale.

html>>

      El Sobrante CA

      aeonix1@

      On Dec 30, 2008, at 2:44 PM, Bob Lawrence wrote:

        Pete,

        How much did you pay for the radiator?

        I'm trying to get an answer for a Powell Brown and his 88 

8v92. 

    He is

        new to this and needs to replace his rad.

        He has been quoted $3,500 for one in Corpus Christi.

        Is this out of line?

        Bob Lawrence

        84 PT36

        Padre Island, Tx.

          I noted (on my maiden trip) that it had an overheating 

problem. A

          trip to a heavy-duty bus/truck radiator shop quickly 

found the

        reason

          and I had a new radiator core installed. Excessive heat 

kills

          engines, probably the quickest of any abuse an owner 

can 

give.

        I've

          also added regular cleaning of the (external) radiator 

fins 

    (which

          were clogged with oily-dirt) to my maintenance list.

          Pete Masterson

          '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

          El Sobrante CA

          aeonix1@

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