Shock mount failure

[Leroy Eckert]

Yes I agree, I will look at the other side and I expect to see the U channel. Problem is the weld point. If there is a design issue and apparently there is, weight, crashing around on rough roads, and lifting the wheels off the ground with the air bags up among other things could cause the stress point to become the weld point unless after the new doubler is affixed it is then welded to the shock mount itself on a 90 degree plane. That means double welding which really does not look like an issue. I did not measure the shock mount for length, but seems to me the farther out the shock is attached the more stress on the weld joint. Know what I mean? Leroy Eckert 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirror Dahlonega, GA --- On Thu, 2/19/09, David Brady wrote: From: David Brady Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Shock mount failure To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 7:22 PM You might try looking at the curb side shock mount for ideas. That shock mount appears to be trouble free. Earlier Don took a picture of it. There appeared to be a rectangular cross section tube welded vertically to it. Something like that or a vertically placed angle iron might do the trick. I know what you mean though, any fix is simply moving the center of stress around, and possible causing stress raisers elsewhere, that's why looking at the curb side might be informative. David Brady '02 LXi, NC -----Original Message----- From: Leroy Eckert Sent: Feb 19, 2009 7:15 PM To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Shock mount failure Yes, I understand Don. There is a plate there and water can get behind it. I really do not know how to evaluate that. I looked at it closely and think a doubler plate could be placed there with through bolts which might create a weak point at the shock mount pod weld..Gotta think about that. That is tentative of course, it was cold and windy today so I did not spend much time looking. I will look again when it warms again. I have done those types of mods on aircraft with rivets and it works well. Leroy Eckert 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors Dahlonega, GA --- On Thu, 2/19/09, Don Bradner wrote: From: Don Bradner Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Shock mount failure To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 7:01 PM I'm at around 131,000. There is not a lot of rust except on the break itself. One thing to not about that rust is that it was driven in rain the day it broke, and it sat through 10 straight days of rain and high humidity after being parked before I looked at it. No way of knowing what the break looked like at the point it actually gave way. On 2/19/2009 at 3:15 PM Leroy Eckert wrote: >117,000. Fortunately, my coach does not have any evidence of significant >rust anywhere, even on the chassis. The area around the shock mount is >clean and black. There is some minor surface rust on the steering rods, >but extremely minor. Virtually nothing on the axle's front or rear. It is >really clean. That is what I paid for when I purchased the coach. The >engine has about 25,000 on an in frame. I re-sprayed the insulation on the >bottom of the coach with undercoating. It is shiny and clean. >Leroy Eckert >1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors >Dahlonega, GA >Royale Conversion > >--- On Thu, 2/19/09, david brady <"dmb993%40earthlink.net"> wrote: >From: david brady <"dmb993%40earthlink.net"> >Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Shock mount failure >To: "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com" >Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 4:26 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Leroy, > > > >How many miles on your coach? > > > >David > >'02 LXi, NC > > > >Leroy Eckert wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks for the info. I checked mine out today and it >looks solid. > >Leroy Eckert > >1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors > >Dahlonega, GA > >Royale Conversion > > > >--- On Thu, 2/19/09, Pete Masterson >wrote: > > From: >Pete Masterson > >Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Shock mount failure > >To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com > >Date: Thursday, February 19, 2009, 1:11 PM > > > > > > I'm inclined to agree that the left shock mount was a less >robust component than is ideal, possibly due to a Ridewell error or >miscalculation of stresses. The tear starts at the top and works down. >That suggests that the force causing the stress is the fully extended >shock absorber. This is in the opposite direction of stress caused by >lowering the jacks when the air bags are deflated. Indeed, in that >situation, the bumper stops ought to be taking the brunt of the weight >rather than the shock mount, if the shock is of the correct length. > > > > I noticed the 'popping' noise (that apparently was >indicative of impending failure) whenever Itraversed dips or >undulations in the road. Unfortunately, many freeways and highways in >the SF Bay are built on fill or unstable clay soils, and undulations >caused by ground subsidence is common and occurs frequently. Even a >small bobble, crossed at 50 or 60+ mph results in a rather >severeporpoising incident. With the frequency of these undulations in >the area with the heavy, fast moving traffic, it is rarely possible to >spot the undulation and take protective action before you're upon it. >(It's so perverse, that one lane may be affected while other lanes are >not.) Indeed, there have been several studies (over the years) that >suggest that the condition of Bay Area highways may be costing drivers >$billions each year in additional repairs to their vehicles. Naturally, >living in a near-bankrupt state, there is little chance that there will >ever be significant improvement. > > > > So, my feeling is that the most likely source of stress >comes from super extension of the shock, rather than compressive stress >caused by lowering the jacks before the suspension is aired up. I note >that the shock can't be longer, since then it would not be able to >compress sufficiently in the opposite direction. Further, between the >time of the first repair and the second failure, my coach did not go >through all that many jack raise/lower cycles and I've rarely lowered >the jacks without sufficient air in the suspension. (I'd say never, >because I have a 'get ready to go' procedure that I'm quite careful to >follow -- but I admit the possibility of a distraction or memory lapse >where lowering the jacks without air in the suspension is possible once >in a while.) In contrast, I probably had many porpoising events for >each jack lowering with or without air in the suspension. > > > > I also speculate that the second failure after the first >repair I encountered is due to the particularly large number of >porpoising events encountered in Bay Area traffic (and the generally >poor condition of many California freeways). Of course, if the first >repair were more robust, I may not have had the second failure. I >further note that it did take a dozen years and more than 125,000 miles >before the fracture was first found. While we should expect better, >that's quite a few miles on the chassis without a failure, so one might >conclude that the part is only just short of being "strong enough." > > > > > Pete Masterson > '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42 (For Sale) > <http://www.aeonix. >biz/BBforsale. html> > El Sobrante CA > aeonix1@mac. com > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Feb 18, 2009, at 7:45 PM, david brady wrote: > > > > Greg, > > > >I don't think the axle tilt puts undo stress on the shock. If you > >consider the steer axle in fulldroop on one side and full bump on > >the other. The angle of the axle is roughly 5 deg to the horizon, > >and this turns out to also be the angle of the shock. > >(inverse sine of (8 inches / 96 inches)). The rubber bushings > >in the shock can easily comply without transferring > >excessive forces to the mounts. I'm sure Ridewell did this basic > >calculation. If this were the cause then we'd be seeing similar > >failures on the drive axles. The cause could be shocks that bottom > >before bump stops (shocks too long), folks retracting their > >HWH jacks w/o first airing up the suspension, folks raising the > >front off the ground w/o first dumping air, or simply and inferior > >Ridewell design. After year 2000 or so, I was informed by > >the engineering staff at Ridewell that all their suspension systems > >underwent finite element analysis and subsequent redesign; > >consequently the LXi uses a different shock mount system than > >the WB's. Could be that Ridewell addressed an inherent weakness. > > > >David Brady > >'02 LXi, NC > > > > > > > >timvasqz wrote: > > > I think the crack was there from off-camber HWH jack >parking in the > >past. looks like the temper of the weld proved a brittle spot that > >under normal conditions would not have issue. Then the new shock > >absorbed more bounce but reacted equally agressive causing much more > >stress on the mount. I think the mount post shoud have less strength > >and be a point that can bend at failure. the tripod gussettes are a > >bad idea. > > > >I think problems arise when the bus air bags are dropped to be > >leveled but the spot is too off camber. the HWH push one side up > >and tilt the axle too much. at that point raising the front is > >effortless and and the 30 foot lever post all the stress on the > >tucked tire. > > > >If I was to repair that mount I would remove two bolts and make a > >trapazoid shape cut and replace the plate with a butt weld then build > >the post mount back no better than before. > > > >If you lose an airline and must drive. there is a screw set in the > >maxicam to turn off the parking brake. you can then plug the airline > >and fold it over then tape it. > >Greg ofTim&Greg > >94ptca > > > >...--- InWanderlodgeForum@ >yahoogroups. com, "Don Bradner" > > wrote: > >> > >> I'm the latest victim of a driver's side front shock mount failure. > >It took out the brake line when it went. I was not far from home on > >the way back from Q, so I limped on in (I know, in retrospect it was > >too dangerous, but I kept a lonnnng following distance!) > >> > >> I've used the local Detroit dealer in Arcata (Trinity Diesel) a > >couple of times now for service, so I called them, and the service > >manager said he would swing by for a look, no charge. He ended up > >removing the shock and the air line, and said that he would come by > >the next time he was this way with a new airline. A new shock will > >have to be ordered (the top bent/caved in) and they will schedule an > >appointment to get it welded after they have that. Shock was 17 > >months old. > >> > >> > >> Don Bradner > >> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder" > >> My location:www. bbirdmaps. >com/user2. cfm?user= 1 > >> > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG. >Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.23/1952 - Release Date: >2/13/2009 6:29 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG. >Version: 7.5.552 / Virus Database: 270.10.23/1952 - Release Date: >2/13/2009 6:29 PM