New problem,,,,lost one of my Freedom Inverters

[Ron Thompson]

Ok, Pete, that was quite a lot of things to check there.One of my GFI's was tripped the one in the bathroom. I reset it and it is now working fine. The other one near the sink was not tripped. The only other outlet that does not have power is the one that is to the left of the drivers seat, down low. It is dead. The Inverter panels are located on the same wall as the dead outlet but closer to the front. They are mounted one above the other. The lower one is the one that is dead. No indicator lights at all and the switch is on. I checked in the battery compartment where the coach batteries are located. The two Inverters are located at the top behind a screw lock door. I lowered the door and checked the pop out breakers on the front of the Inverters and all were OK with none of them popped out. One of the Inverters was very warn to the touch but the other one was not cold but was just a little warm. Probably from conduction from the other Inverter. I didn't see any easy to reset the cold inverter. I did turn the power switch off on it and waited a minute or so then turned it back on with no positive results. I didn't see anything else to check out on them so closed them up and looked for the transfer switch which I found in the bay on the road side where the Aqua Hot system is located. It was mounted on the right wall of that bay in a metal box about 8 or 10 inches square and labled, Transfer Switch. There were no switches on control devices on the outside of the case. There was a coil type device on the bottom the case but I couldn't see what it was from the angle I had to view it. It looked as if you would have to remove the box and take off the cover to see what it was. If I had a schematic and a location diagram I might have some luck in identifying why that outlet by the drivers seat is not working. Three days ago it was working because I had my camera charger plugged into it and it worked fine for that. That is about as far as I have gotten with it so far, Pete. Your ideas were very good and did remind me to check those GFI's As far as that cedar lined closet goes. I do have four breakers that are not in the closet but on the floor just under the right hand drawer that is just below the TV that is mounted above it. All four of the breakers were on and not tripped. I reset all four of them just in case but it did not change anything. Inside the closet on the right side down low near the floor of the closet is a removable felt covered panel. Behind it is a bunch of small relays or miniature breakers which I have no idea what they are for. I did visually check them out and did not see any thing out of the ordinarry. Is there another panel in that closet. I did not see a panel that was wooden that could be removed unless you are talking about the whole back wall of the closet. This is about all I can tell you at this point. I am no closer to a solution than I was this morning. The lack of schematics and location diagrams is the problem. I am an experienced electronic tech and can trouble shoot very well from a schematic and location diagrams. There is one thing I have learned about these birds, There is no easy project. They all are complicated and time consuming. Ron Thompson -Waller, Tx. 1995 WLWB 42' (cockyfox@...) --- On Mon, 6/29/09, Pete Masterson wrote: From: Pete Masterson Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] New problem,,,,lost one of my Freedom Inverters To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, June 29, 2009, 3:55 PM OK... the switch was on the inverter panel next to the driver's seat. (Memory) it's on the lower left hand corner of the little panel with the red lights. It's possible that the sensor wires between the battery and control panel became unattached. Check to see that there are some very light weight wires attached to the batteries and that the connections are tight. I have the same Freedom 25 inverters as you have. The previous owner upgraded the _controller_ only to a Heart Link 2000 R it controls 2 inverters and the output from the alternator (that's the "R" in the name). It is necessary to get the best life out of AGM batteries -- a choice also made by the P.O. Which 120 v outlets are dead? There are 2 GFI (ground fault interrupter) circuits. One is controlled by a GFI outlet in the bathroom (mine is directly above the bathroom sink) and the other is controlled by a GFI outlet in the galley area (mine is directly above the counter between the sink and cooktop). These GFI outlet are wired to provide GFI "protection" to several non-GFI outlets in the same general area. For example, the one above the kitchen counter also controls an outlet on the end of the galley cabinet serving the 'salon' area. (I think it also controls an outlet on the other end of the galley cabinet as well.) GFIs can trip very easily, so try pressing the test then reset button. If the GFI outlet was replaced, but not wired correctly, it can cut off power to the satellite outlets. To determine if your shore power is getting to both legs, take a look at the voltage meters above the front door. The two gauges should read 115-125 volts, or so. If they're both reading, then you're getting power. Next is time to check the main electrical panel and see if you have one of the mains tripped. You may need to take off the cover (careful! there is deadly voltage inside) and use a tester to ensure that the breakers are working properly. It! 's possi ble for an internal fault to kill a breaker -- I've had it happen in my home panel. The main panel breaker that covers the non-working outlets should also be tested for an internal fault. Just because a breaker is set or reset, doesn't mean it's OK. On my home panel, turning a tripped breaker directly back to ON almost always ruins it. You _must_ turn it fully off, then back on. The point is, breakers can seem to switch normally, but an internal component can fail, causing them to be permanently "tripped" no matter what the switch position. Testing the breaker for continuity is the only way to check this -- and you have to pull the breaker out of the panel to make that test. On the inverters themselves, the lower front edge covers a variety of output pins. You can use a non-contact AC tester* to see which connections are hot. You should find 120 v on at least one connecter on each Inverter. Note that inverted current causes slightly screwy sensing for the non-contact AC current testers. On "real" 120 vac power, the light glows, but with the inverted power, the light will flicker. Apparently, that's normal and has to do with the modified sine wave current from the inverter. *This is the type of tester I'm referring to: <http://www.happcont rols.com/ electrical_ supplies/ 92028100. htm> I got one at a home center for $16 or $18 or so.... Lastly, the automatic transfer switches may be involved. They can have a build up of corrosion on the contacts (from the inevitable sparking during transfer) that will kill them. I'm not entirely sure exactly where the transfer switches are located. Someone told me that they are inside the inverter. (I suspected that problem when I was troubleshooting my apparently "dead" inverter.) However, I found the rather simple (stupid owner, flipped switch) pr! oblem be fore I got to the point of pulling the inverter to tear it down to find the transfer switch. Do you have power on both legs when running under the generator? The same transfer switch handles both shore power and generator power. Be sure to use your multi-tester on the shore power source to ensure that you have power on both legs. top pin is ground Left and right are hot bottom pin is neutral. You should have 120 (or so) VAC from left to bottom and from right to bottom pins. 240 VAC (or so) when you go from left to right pins. (Top to bottom _ought_ to be zero.) If one leg of the shore power is out, you should see that the left or right pin is dead. Pete Masterson '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42 El Sobrante CA aeonix1@mac. com On Jun 29, 2009, at 12:05 PM, Ron Thompson wrote: It appears that a breaker has been tripped. I did check those 4 breakers you mentiobned and tripped all of them off then back on and it didn't chanbge a thing. The Inverter panely that is next to the drivers seat (two of them) , the bottom one is off. No indicators are lit at all. Evidently your coach has a different Inverter than mine. Mine is a Heart Interface, Freedom, Model # 25. THIS MAY BE THE KEY! I think the Inverter has a breaker tripped somewhere. I have some 120 volt outlets with no voltage even though I am plugged into shore power so that is a clue to the problem I would think. It appears that the shore power has a leg that is non functional. Note my suggested troubleshooting tests. Make sure you've got shore power to both legs. (Look at the voltage meters above the front door, first.) Then check the "mains" in the primary 120 vac electrical panel in the bedroom.