New problem,,,,lost one of my Freedom Inverters

[Ron Thompson]

Pete and all others who have an interest. I have a good volt meter, Fluke digital and its accurate. Now, here is the good news so far. I powered everything to do with power supplies and disconnected the shore power and removed the panel on the main breaker. Bear in mind that the two inverters switches are off both at the inverter, which is not a disconnect switch by the way, and also the two inverter panels by the driver seat had their switches turned off. Also all the breakers in the panel were switched off. I then started the generator and checked the guages on the dash console and they both read 14 volts give or take a tenth. After 10 minutes they were still stable. I checked the ac voltage output and it was steady on 121 volts AC. I then shut down the generator and reconected the shore power and cheked the meter reading at the mains in the panel behind the mirrorl. Leg one was about 122 volts and leg two was about 120 volts and they were both steady at those voltages. I then turned on the inverter switches in the battery bay and checked the two panels by the drivers seat and they both had leds lit. and the input was about 13 volts. I then turned the battery charger breaker switches on at the panel behind the mirror and lo and behold the output was about 14 to 14.5 volts at both panels. I am watching it now to make sure it is going to hold at 14 volts and it is so far. It appears that a structured start up procedure had to be done from cold power up. Before I could not get the lower panel by the driver seat to do anything. It appears that as long as there was power from any source the Inverter would not reset itself. Here is hoping that this fixes the problem. As a closing note, this whole thing started at my first RV park on this trip two weeks ago. I plugged into their 50 amp service and it was as if my coach was a voltage sink ground. A large buzzing sound and I jerked the power cord out. After checking things out without any finding anything, I plugged the power cable back into the 50 amp service and it appeared that everything was ok. I did not check the display panels by the drivers seat that night but noticed the next day that the lower one was dead. So something was wrong with their power set up. Maybe a line reversal. Won't ever know......... Thanks for all your help. Your suggestions led me in the right direction. Here is hoping that they problem does not reassert itself. Thanks again to all of you. I hope I can be of service to others as time goes on. I will learn this beast sooner or later. Ron Thompson -Waller, Tx. 1995 WLWB 42' (cockyfox@...) --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Pete Masterson wrote: From: Pete Masterson Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] New problem,,,,lost one of my Freedom Inverters To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 11:38 AM I wouldn't rule out that an inverter has failed. The charger would still work as it's a separate part. The high heat may have precipitated a failure. The basic test of the inverter is to check for 12 vdc 'hot' at the input and 120 VAC at the output. Bench test is best -- but that involves removing the inverter. As you suggested (earlier) the cold (well, cooler) one is the likely culprit. Since I never got to the point of removing my inverter (for a bench test), I can't comment on what's inside the inverter enclosure. The increasing voltage (shown on the inverter control panel?) is a concern -- but if the voltage at the batteries is still at 13.5 ~ 14, then I have to wonder about the volt meter. What do the _dash_ meters read? (Be sure the chassis/house crossover switch is off, when you check.) If they're in the normal range, then the 17 volt reading may be spurious -- and a fault in the inverter control system. When I thought I had a dead inverter, I didn't have anything reading out of normal range (and my inverter panel still was alive). But then, as it turned out, my problem was only a mis-set switch. I'd try turning off one then the other "battery charger" breakers (on the 120 vac panel) and checking the voltage reading then. It may be that the charger on the bad inverter has lost its control circuits and is "running away." If that's the case, battery damage could eventually occur. (Or turn both charger breakers off, then turn one, then the other on...) Pete Masterson '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42 El Sobrante CA aeonix1@mac. com On Jun 29, 2009, at 9:12 PM, Ron Thompson wrote: Pete, I found the hand hold down at the left bottom of that mirror over the drivers side drawer in the rear bedroom. However, no breakers had been tripped. There were two breakers labled Battery Chargers. I assume those were the Inverters since no others were labled Inverters. The breakers all felt good on the switch off and on. Good strong action. So I still have some work to do. Got to be something somewhere that is out. However the Inverter could just be bad. I am about to decide that is what is wrong. I came across the Mojave desert early last week and man was it hot. The inside of that engine area was hot as hell. That could have cause one of the Inverters to fail. I have to just keep looking. I am on my way to Alaska and leaving Eugene Or. on Wednesday to go up through Washington state to get to the Canadian border. I just don't have the time to tear things down and find the trouble. I just keep taking one thing a day and run it out and see if that works. The voltage rising when I am plugged into shore power worries me. It is now over 17 volts on the guages. However, measured with a digital Fluke meter it is still about 13.5 to 14 volts at the batteries. I need to do some more analysis on that to determin! e where that high voltage is. I thought those guages were attached right at the batteries to accurately measure the voltage at the coach and the engine batteries. Thanks Pete for your help. I am still in a deep learning curve on these coaches. Ron Thompson -Waller, Tx. 1995 WLWB 42' (cockyfox@sbcglobal. net) --- OnMon, 6/29/09, Pete Masterson<aeonix1@mac. com>wrote: From: Pete Masterson <aeonix1@mac. com> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] New problem,,,,lost one of my Freedom Inverters To:WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com Date: Monday, June 29, 2009, 9:57 PM On Jun 29, 2009, at 3:31 PM, Ron Thompson wrote: <snip> The Inverter panels are located on the same wall as the dead outlet but closer to the front. They are mounted one above the other. The lower one is the one that is dead. No indicator lights at all and the switch is on. I checked in! the bat tery compartment where the coach batteries are located. The two Inverters are located at the top behind a screw lock door. I lowered the door and checked the pop out breakers on the front of the Inverters and all were OK with none of them popped out. One of the Inverters was very warn to the touch but the other one was not cold but was just a little warm. Probably from conduction from the other Inverter. I didn't see any easy to reset the cold inverter. I did turn the power switch off on it and waited a minute or so then turned it back on with no positive results. Ok this is a "bad sign" that the inverter isn't getting any power. Make sure the signal wires are connected to the batteries. They are very light weight wires hooked to a couple of the battery terminals. However, they're probably not the problem. There are some electrical things on the curb side accessible through the "grill door" to the engine side/battery compartment on the engine side of the bulkhead. I'm not sure what all that stuff is, but it's worth checking to ensure that there are no loose wires. Ah... I have one of those boxes. No label, however. No clue what's inside. I'd be sure the I'm disconnected from shore power -and- remove the negative cables from the battery posts before opening that one up. I'm guessing "shock hazard inside." I didn't see anything else to check out on them so closed them up and looked for the transfer switch which I found in the bay on the road side where the Aqua Hot system is located. It was mounted on the right wall of that bay in a metal box about 8 or 10 inches square and labled, Transfer Switch. There were no switches on control devices on the outside of the case. There was a coil type device on the bottom the case but I couldn't see what it was from the angle I had to view it. It looked as if you would have to remove the box and take off the cover to see what it was. If I had a schematic and a location diagram I might have some luck in identifying why that outlet by the drivers seat is not working. Three days ago it was working because I had my camera charger plugged into it and it worked fine for that. I got a ton of schematics -- but I can't tell what's wh! at. I do n't think I have anything that looks like 120v circuits -- all the diagrams I have looks like 12 v. That! is abou t as far as I have gotten with it so far, Pete. Your ideas were very good and did remind me to check those GFI's As far as that cedar lined closet goes. I do have four breakers that are not in the closet but on the floor just under the right hand drawer that is just below the TV that is mounted above it. All four of the breakers were on and not tripped. I reset all four of them just in case but it did not change anything. Inside the closet on the right side down low near the floor of the closet is a removable felt covered panel. Behind it is a bunch of small relays or miniature breakers which I have no idea what they are for. I did visually check them out and did not see any thing out of the ordinarry. That's all 12vdc stuff. There's another power center toward the top (in my coach). Your floor plan sounds different in some respects. My inverter breakers are on the curb side. The main 120 VAC power panel is behind a mirror just above the curb-side drawer. < br> Is there another panel in that closet. I did not see a panel that was wooden that could be removed unless you are talking about the whole back wall of the closet. Yes, I'm talking about the "whole" back wall of the closet. There are two visible screws next to a small gap. At the top of the panel is a gray felt covered wood strip. Remove that strip (6 screws hidden in the felt) and you'll find another little gap and another 6 screws. Behind that whole back wall of the closet is a set of 8 or 9 120 VAC relays and some other wires down in the bottom of the hidden compartment. This is about all I can tell you at this point. I am no closer to a solution than I was this morning. The lack of schematics and location diagrams is the problem. I am an experienced electronic tech and can trouble shoot very well from a schematic and location diagrams. There is one thing I have learned about these birds, There is no easy project. They all are complicated and time consuming. You got that right! Pete Masterson '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42 El Sobrante CA aeonix1@mac. com