Radiator temp in/out and temp gauge readings

[transit360]

BTW, I wanted to make sure my temp gauge was accurate b/c I've
had a few that have gone bad or ended up getting a mixed signal if
they are electric and someone accidently spliced into it, which is
another reason why I wanted to doublecheck it with the Raytek for
redundancy. Turns out the gauge is accurate but it gives me comfort
to be sure, especially with a new bus I'm not familiar with.

Steve
2 '98 QBRE Partybuses

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "transit360"
wrote:
> So I took out my thermostats on the 8.3 Cummins. Two small
ones,
> as you might have guessed. Looked a little rusty in the thermo
> housing by the way.
> Put them in water and heated them to boiling. Each one barely
> opened enough so you could see daylight from the bottom side.
> I took some needlenose and pulled the thermostat rod out. It's
> about an inch long. I'm assuming that most thermostats are the
same
> so correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the thermostats be
capable
> of opening up the full rod length at temp well over 200? Possibly
up
> to an inch? Just wanted to be sure to get a second opinion. I'm
open
> to any fact that may be evident, which includes a thermostat that
> could possibly be designed to open by the slightest of gaps.
> However if the thermostat is supposed to open wider, then
that
> means that the thermostat opened partially at operating temp, thus
> the coolant flow would have been reduced, thus making it get
hotter
> under demand.
> Don't worry, I'm going to the parts store tomorrow to get two
> new thermostats and I'm testing them as well and then replacing
the
> old ones. Just wanted to double check and get a full understanding
> of each mechanism and function, of even a thermostat rod.
> Also, I'm going to test my antifreeze mixture in the engine.
It
> looked a little thin. Do I need to do this after I run the engine
so
> it's evenly mixed, or can I just test any of the antifreeze I
> drained out b/c it's already mixed properly?
> I would really like to flush the system due to the
> brackishness of it, but I'm really hesitant until I get an full
> manual of all the systems of this bus. Would anybody know where I
> could get a manual for this Bluebird QBRE? I've contacted National
> Bus Sales in Georgia (the local Bluebird dealer) and no luck yet.
>
> Thanks
> Steve
> 2 '98 QBRE Partybuses
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner

> wrote:
> > You obviously are not listening to all of the advice you were
> given. If you
> > have a temperature gauge on your dash then you can very easily
> tell if your
> > thermostats are opening at the proper time and working
correctly.
> WATCH the
> > gauge that is what they put it there for. The temperature will
> continue to
> > climb but should hit the thermostat temperature quickly when the
> engine is
> > running and you can see as the thermostat opens since the temp
> will start
> > to drop. Then the temp will stop going down again and slowly
build
> up until
> > the thermostat once again opens and this cycle will continue
until
> it
> > stabalizes. If the temp does not rise rather quickly after
running
> the
> > engine with the bus moving, then most likely the thermostats are
> not
> > closing and are wide open. If the temp keeps climbing with out
> cycling off
> > and on then the thermostat is frozen shut.
> > If the bottom hose on the radiator is always cold, then once
again
> the
> > thermostat is not opening and coolant is not flowing thru the
> radiator.
> > Same thing when you take the radiator cap off and watch the
> coolant flow
> > thru the radiator. You can tell when the thermostat opens since
> you will
> > immediately see coolant flow past the radiator neck.
> >
> > For all of these you dont need a toy...you need to understand
how
> the
> > cooling system works and how to troubleshoot it.
> >
> > tom
> > 1982 FC35
> > Vernon Center, NY
> >
> >
> > At 03:43 PM 7/20/2005 +0000, you wrote:
> > >George,
> > >
> > > 1. First of all, the post you are referring to was about a
> > >different bus, on my RTS, with a different problem. It turned
out
> > >that deep within the radiator fins there was crud and buildup on
> > >over half the radiator, thus making cooling difficult. This
> current
> > >problem is with a Bluebird.
> > > 2. It was just over a week ago when I addressed this
problem,
> > >not three, and it's a long term project so I'm in no rush. I'm
in
> > >the process of learning as much as I can about the Bluebird bus
> > >line, so forgive me if I ask a lot of questions.
> > > 3. Your advice was to replace the thermostats. I had 3
> members
> > >from this board and 3 others from another board tell me to get
the
> > >infrared gun to help diagnosis, so I did.
> > > 4. I don't recall argueing with anyone on this board about
> any
> > >of their advice. I appreciate everyone's input and gain as much
I
> > >can from what they state. Your's was helpful also and gave me
> > >something to think about.
> > > 5. I wanted to get a tool that I could use in the future
as
> well
> > >as now. I'm sure all the folks that told me to get it don't
think
> of
> > >it as a "toy", but as a valuable tool to diagnose problems
instead
> > >of just throwing parts at an engine.
> > > 6. I was just curious if you could diagnose a bad
thermostat
> > >without having to loosen the hoses, lose antifreeze, test and
> > >replace the part and gasket, bleed the system if needed, and
> dispose
> > >of old antifreeze. I'm a big fan of making a quick diagnosis if
> > >possible. And from what I can tell, this gun will be able to
help
> do
> > >that. So in the time it would take for me do all that, the toy
> would
> > >have paid for itself.
> > >
> > > If you wish to offer any advice please do. But I hate
> screwing
> > >around as much as anyone would. That's why I followed the
> majority's
> > >advice.
> > > And I'm taking it that there is NO possible way that you
> think a
> > >bad thermostat can be diagnosed without taking it out. I won't
> argue
> > >with you since you have the experience. Thanks again for your
> input.
> > >
> > >Steve
> > >2 '98 QBRE Bluebird
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mrdonut12"
> > ><mrdonut12@y...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Steve,
> > > > Forgive me if I'm a little short with you, but I'm a
> > >professional
> > > > mechanic with over 30 years experience, ASE Certified Master
> > > > Technician, Advanced L-1 Engine Performance Certification,
> > > > Service Advisor Certification and I own one of the best auto
> repair
> > > > shops in the US. In 10 years in business, my shop has fixed
> over
> > > > 34,000 cars.
> > > > I told you 3 weeks ago, the first step in fixing this
> thing
> > >is
> > > > to install new factory thermostats. You have to establish
> > >baselines
> > > > of performance in a system in order to fix it. No other
part
> of
> > >the
> > > > cooling system can be properly evaluated with malfunctioning
> > > > thermostats in place.
> > > > Thermostats get old, they wear out and they break.
> > > > You asked my advice, I gave it to you, you argued with
me
> and
> > > > went out and bought a new toy that costs about 7 times what a
> > > > thermostat would cost and now you want me to answer more
> questions.
> > > > My question to you is, do you want to screw around or
do
> you
> > >want
> > > > to fix this thing?
> > > >
> > > > George Witt
> > > > 81 FC 35
> > > > Lincoln, Nebraska
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "transit360"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Tom and George,
> > > > >
> > > > > OK, sorry guys. I forgot to mention I also shot a temp
> > >reading on
> > > > > the hose going in and out of the water pump, both at
around
> 200
> > > > > degrees also.
> > > > > To be honest with you, I'm not sure where my
thermostat
> is.
> > >I'm
> > > > > assuming it's in a usual spot near the water pump, but I've
> > >never
> > > > > worked on the 8.3 Cummins before, and I've been trying to
> find a
> > > > > manual for a month. But it should be a no-brainer.
> > > > > So I'm gathering that we're suspecting improper
coolant
> > >flow,
> > > > > which could be caused by a stuck thermostat or possibly a
> weak
> > >water
> > > > > pump? I'm assuming when I locate the thermostat that I
> should be
> > > > > able to shoot it at operating temp and the temp should be
the
> > >same
> > > > > on both sides, otherwise a temp difference would indicate
> it's
> > > > > closed, yes? Sounds feasible.
> > > > > However, this is pretty much how this bus has
always
> run,
> > > > > around 200 degrees on the highway. Wouldn't it overheat if
> the
> > > > > thermostat stayed closed? Could it be partially open or
> closed?
> > >That
> > > > > would restrict flow but maybe not enough to totally
overheat
> the
> > > > > engine?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Steve
> > > > > 2 '98 Bluebird QBRE Partybuses
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > George what he established is that the radiator is not
> > >exhanging
> > > > > heat.
> > > > > > There should be only about a 10-15 degree difference
> between
> > >the
> > > > > temp at
> > > > > > the top and bottom. If not the coolant is not flowing
more
> > >then
> > > > > likely
> > > > > > because the thermostat is not open.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > tom
> > > > > > 1982 FC35
> > > > > > Vernon Center,Ny
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At 02:15 AM 7/20/2005 +0000, you wrote:
> > > > > > >Steve,
> > > > > > > You've established that the radiator, at the
current
> flow
> > > > > > >rate, is capable of exchanging heat.
> > > > > > > What you haven't established is if there's any
water
> > >flow.
> > > > > > >With that deep a drop in temperature, does that tell
you
> that
> > > > > maybe
> > > > > > >the coolant is flowing too slowly?
> > > > > > > Use your Raytek infrared temp gun to tell you if
the
> > > > > thermostat
> > > > > > >is working properly.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > George Witt
> > > > > > > 81 FC 35
> > > > > > > Lincoln, Nebraska
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "transit360"
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > I just got my new Raytek infrared temp gun and was
> > >getting
> > > > > some
> > > > > > > > shots on my 8.3 Cummins pusher in my '98 QBRE
> Partybus. I
> > >shot
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > top of the radiator and it read 200 degrees, which
is
> what
> > >my
> > > > > bus
> > > > > > > > temp gauge said. I shot the lower radiator hose and
it
> > >read 130
> > > > > > > > degrees.
> > > > > > > > I made sure to test location and reposition my
gun
> > >several
> > > > > > > > times, and this is what I got. Should there be such a
> > >drastic
> > > > > change
> > > > > > > > in temp through the radiator? I was expecting about
15-
> 20
> > > > > degrees
> > > > > > > > difference. Could this indicate any problems?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Second question: My temp gauge on the dash has
> green
> > >(safe)
> > > > > > > > markings up to 220 degrees. Past 220, it reads in
the
> red.
> > >My
> > > > > bird
> > > > > > > > typically runs at 200 degrees while riding. Is this
> > >normal?
> > > > > Seems a
> > > > > > > > little on the warm side but this is my first Cummins
> as I
> > >have
> > > > > dealt
> > > > > > > > primarily with 8.2 and 6V71 Detroits in the past. My
> other
> > > > > Bluebird
> > > > > > > > partybus (same exact bus) runs at about 190,
although I
> > >haven't
> > > > > > > > confirmed it with the temp gun like the first.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > Steve
> > > > > > > > 2 '98 Bluebird QBRE Partybuses
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
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