Pricey repairs

[Tom Warner]

Scott I honestly dont understand what your position is and why the
remarks since they were not addressed to you. I made some remarks
based on what Wallace said not what I assumed he said and the remarks
were actually supportive of what Mike wrote. The remark about tires
and batteries led me to believe that may have been a show stopper for
that particular sale. I hope you dont think that someone has to own
Bluebirds for a long time to work on them or understand how they
work. There is little difference between the mechanics of most RVs
built today. If you can work on one of them, you can work on another
within a short time.

In addition he may not have understood what is happening in the
markets today and/or he may be a buyer that does not dicker much with
the price of the motorhome. I know many people like that. And yes I
follow the markets very close as I read the things that may effect
the stock market since I am an active trader, and these things effect
the prices of motorhomes. Right now it is a strong buyers market and
the prices on both new and used motorhomes are falling rapidly. Watch
close and unless something changes drastically for the better you
will see many motorhome owners dumping their motorhomes because of
financial difficulties. I wish it were not true but one has to only
follow the futures markets to see what is predicted.

You have a 1986 FC35. Do you really think there are many differences
between the 1982/1986/1991 Bluebirds? Have you really looked them
over carefully and noted how similar they are rather then different?
I am not speaking of the cosmetic touches but the chassis, furnaces
brakes etc. Do you do the maintenance and upgrades on your coach? The
schematics for the Forward Controls and the PTs are very very similar
with the same parts used other then the engine and transmissions. You
would be really shocked to see how many parts from the Bluebird
TC2000 school bus is used on the forward controls. Take a look under
your dash and note the panel for the school bus gauges are still
there . I would like to get across the fact that there is
little mechanical difference between my 1982 FC35 and your 1986 or
even the 1991 SP36 other then the engine and transmission is in the rear.

Scott one does not have to "be in the market" to have a feeling for
what is happening right now and the effects on the prices of
motorhomes. Or havent you noticed what has happened to the price of
diesel fuel, tires and almost everything connected with Recreational
Vehicles? When I bought this FC35 four years ago the price of diesel
in Georgia was $1.049 and today in Brunswick Georgia it is
$3.119. Tires have almost doubled in the last 2 years.

I believe that the prices of diesel and home heating oil as well as
natural gas is going to go even higher then it is now..........much
higher. Already there is a strong effect on full timers who in the
wildest dreams never thought they would see prices rise so fast. My
prediction is that the prices of used Bluebirds is going to go a lot
lower then they are today. Lets see who is right come December 2005.

Tom Warner
1982 FC35
Vernon Center,NY

+

At 11:37 PM 10/19/2005, you wrote:
>Tom, your thoughts on the purchase of a coach are just a tad off the
>mark! Sorry.. You own a coach that is almost 10yrs older than what he
>is looking at..and how long have you owned your coach..and when was
>the last time you entered the buying market?? I think the market has
>changed since then. For you to make that comment/conclusion from the
>posts from Wallace and Mike is kinda wayyyy off base. You have no
>clue the condition of that coach. I believe that he (Wallace) is
>somewhat of a seasoned BB owner and certainly has a VERY
>QUALIFIED "consultant" with him to make that decision. Don't you
>think they evaluated the price vs repairs..hence value..Maybe just
>maybe..there were some "other" things and given they BOTH have been
>around BB for years that they could make this decision?? As you
>said "you have no idea what his standards are" ...it is not always
>black and white..Price deduct all the "things" YOU expect to be in
>order. Sheesh you don't even know what the price was...gimme a
>break..and by the way "what exactly is a high standard" seems like
>mebbe your level and someone elses may just be a little different. So
>please refrain...Actually are you screwing up the wannabes???
>hmmm...marketing vs engineering..the debate continues!!
>
>Scott B
>86FC35
>SC
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
>wrote:
> >
> > Wallace I have no idea what your standards are when selecting a
> > coach. I suppose it depends a lot on how much of the maintenance
>and
> > repair you are capable of doing. But I noticed that you said there
> > were far to many problems including tires and batteries. Those two
> > items would not bother me in the least however I would reduce the
> > price I would pay for the coach by the amount to replace both of
> > those items. Same with other things that Ralph found.
> >
> > I would guess there are others on this forum that are either
> > considering upgrading to a newer Bluebird or becoming first time
> > buyers. I would not want them to get the impression that anything
> > should be a show stopper when considering a coach. In my case when
> > looking for a Bluebird I would not consider any coach that had rust
> > on the chassis or body panels unless it was something that my local
> > Bluebird school bus dealer could not repair at an attractive price.
> >
> > Bottom line in my opinion is to get a coach that either has been
> > maintained to a high standard or is offered at a price where it can
> > be upgraded to that level.
> >
> > tom
> > 1982 FC35
> > Vernon Center,NY
> >
> >
> > At 09:29 PM 10/19/2005, you wrote:
> > >Mike, saw your post so thought I would add my 2 cents. We (Ralph
>&
> > >I) looked at the 91 today and decided to pass. Won't bore you
>with
> > >details, but far too many problems to correct including new tires
> > >and probably batteries. Will keep the ear open for other deals.
> > >Regards;
> > >Wallace & Faye Craig
> > >
> > >mbulriss <mbulriss@y...> wrote:
> > >Winston,
> > >
> > >Now that we see this, no wonder that owner scared you with his
>tales
> > >of expensive repairs! Interesting sales strategy on his part!
> > >
> > >As Scott and Ralph pointed out, we all need to be educated
>consumers
> > >and shop around if a quote seems to peg our BS sniffer meter. I
>hope
> > >that first guy you ran into is still holding the rusty exhaust
> > >pipe also!>
> > >
> > >Buddy Gregg service..... that explains a lot. I'll let Ralph
>comment
> > >further on that when he gets back into town, but if there's a way
>to
> > >make it expensive, Buddy's guys can do it. I asked them to check
>for
> > >a suspected air bag leak in a specific bag. Their response was
> > >$4,500-5,000 to replace all the air bags. They "wouldn't just
>replace
> > >one bag". Of course they never bothered to evn look at it either!
> > >Ralph freed up the sticky air valve for me at a Lone Star
> > >Birds rally with a $3 can of PB Blaster (I think it was). An air
> > >dryer filter R&R at Buddy's was I think a $600 or 700 quote (3-4
>hours
> > >labor plus $100+ parts); versus the $32 filter and the hour and a
>half
> > >I took to do it myself! I work slow.....
> > >
> > >Since the owner mentioned Cat, I will assume that the 91 in
>question
> > >was an SP model. Can't speak to that model specifically; maybe Hank
> > >or someone else can comment on the $1500 of labor to change an
> > >alternator. I still can't fathom having to R&R the bumper to get to
> > >the alternator, nor can I see it taking more than 2 hours total to
>get
> > >that done. Makes the PT Detroits seem much easier to work on now!
> > >
> > >The comment about the Caterpiller shop having to "fabricate tools
> > >because they do not generally work on Bluebirds and their tools
>don't
> > >work" cracked me up. That's hilarious! Now I know Harley's have
>some
> > >special "factory only" tools, but I've never found anything on the
> > >Bird that wasn't readily available in my own set of "non-
>professional"
> > >tools, much less at a professional repair facility or dealer shop.
> > >
> > >While the prior owner seems to have delighted in throwing money
>away,
> > >you *can* find "competent" service facilities for more reasonable
> > >prices. Some people only go to their auto dealers for oil changes.
> > >Some people enjoy bragging about how much things cost them as
> > >a badge of their affulence. Most folks on these forums are more
> > >concerned with doing things a little more economically, and having
>it
> > >done right the first time.
> > >
> > >As was stated by several other members, you just have to be a smart
> > >consumer and seek advice when you need it, before you throw
>yourself
> > >to the wolves. I think the responses that you are seeing here
>should
> > >indicate that there are other ways to be sure things are fixed
> > >properly without just throwing $$$ at it with no questions asked.
> > >Please don't be scared off by this one owner. I hope that you are
> > >seeing by the responses here that the situation you have here
>seems to
> > >be an anomoly rather than the rule.
> > >
> > >Also, before you buy, you might want to consider having someone
>that
> > >really knows what they are doing, thoroughly check out the
>prospective
> > >Bird for you so that there are no expensive surprises.
> > >
> > >Good luck with your hunt!
> > >
> > >Mike Bulriss
> > >83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale
> > >91 PT40 "Texas Minivan"
> > >San Antonio, Texas
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, winston barrows
> > >
> > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >install is
> > >maybe 4 hours.>>
> > > > Hi, Ralph,
> > > > According to the owner, the book is three hours bumper off and
>three
> > >hours bumper on for six hours. This is what he writes:
> > > >
> > > > I took my unit to Buddy Gregg, in Knoxville TN for service.
>$115.00
> > >per hour. the cost of parts will not be the shock. The shock is
> > >getting something done, done right, and done to the high
>expectations
> > >that Bluebird owners possess. By way of example, shortly after
> > >purchase, the fuel gauge went to "empty" even though it was clearly
> > >full. Buddy Gregg traced the repair to the sensor located at the
>top
> > >of the fuel tank. This is accessed through a door on the floor of
>the
> > >coach, which was overlayed with 3/4 inch plywood and the marble
>floor.
> > >the estimate to fix? $6-700, plus the $10.00 sending unit, but they
> > >could not replace the marble they would have to chisel out of the
> > >floor. Everything in a Bluebird is like that. I asked them to look
>at
> > >the alternator/battery system because the green dash light
>sometimes
> > >came on (which I now know is normal). They replaced the alternator.
> > >Cost of alternator (which I now do not believe had any problems)
>$350;
> > >Cost of labor to replace alternator?
> > > > $1,500. why so expensive? because they had to take the bumper
>off,
> > >and then take off all the belts and hoses in the engine. three
>hours
> > >off, and three hours on ( that is just the labor for the bumper).
>You
> > >don't even want to know what Caterpiller charges to look at
>Bluebirds.
> > >Caterpiller likes dealing with businesses that own tractors. Hell
>if
> > >you bill your tractor out for 2 or three hundred per hour, you can
> > >afford thousands to have a GED trained technician tell you you
>need a
> > >fuel filter, and then hand you a bill for $2,000, (labor at $130
>per
> > >hour) plus materials (a $75.00 filter which should have been what
>was
> > >checked within the first hour). Of course, they have to bill 2 to
> > >three hours to put paper on the floor of the coach so they don't
>track
> > >in sludge, and then fabricate tools because they do not generally
>work
> > >on Bluebirds and their tools don't work.
> > > >
> > > > The original price you pay for a Bluebird doesn't really matter
> > >much. It is the beginning of a process that is akin to placing a
> > >vacuum cleaner on you wallet and watching the money dissapear. End
>of
> > >owner email text.
> > > > It seems to me that part of the responsibility of this forum
>should
> > >be to educate folks on the scale of economy of Wanderlodge
>ownership.
> > >A lot of people think Buddy Gregg is a reputable dealership and I'm
> > >not saying they aren't (especially since I've had no experience
>with
> > >them). So my logic is if such a competent repair shop costs so
>much,
> > >then what's it going to cost to go to the guy you'll educate?
> > > >
> > > > "Ralph L. Fullenwider" wrote:
> > > > Hello Winston:
> > > >
> > > > Mike B gave you some pretty good answers to your question. And
>yes,
> > >some
> > > > repairs can be costly, no question there. Blow a 12R 22.5 tire
>and
> > >wheel
> > > > wells along with various other damage can occur.
> > > >
> > > > As to the pricey alternator job, I agree it was pricey but
> > >necessary? Even
> > > > removing the bumper the un install and re install is maybe 4
>hours.
> > >Perhaps
> > > > something else happened, like a broken bolt that had to be
>drilled out.
> > > > More than likely they 2 tech's on the job and charged for each
> > >tech.? That
> > > > is not right either, in my book. It would be interesting to have
> > >seen that
> > > > bill and what the write up was. No I am not defending that
>shop, in
> > >fact I
> > > > would be dubious of it.
> > > >
> > > > Part of what this and other Forums were started for was to help
>one
> > >another
> > > > as we can and also to list the "known" good shops around the
>Country to
> > > > take the birds to and then on the other hand, to know what
>shops not to
> > > > take them to. This Forum is intended to be a clearing house of
>seeking
> > > > answers to problems and so forth. Even if your not doing the
>repair
> > >work <
> > > > which, as Mike pointed out, will save one some money> one can
>come
> > >to the
> > > > forum's to try to get a better idea of what to expect when
>taking a
> > >Coach
> > > > to a shop. Information among us, is a powerful tool, and one
>that
> > >can help
> > > > you recognize if that shop or repair facility is running high
>on costs.
> > > >
> > > > Repairs on Birds, Prevost, Newell or any high line Coach will
> > >usually run
> > > > higher in some respects as they are far advanced machines with
>more
> > > > amenities than most others. With that advancement, comes the
>fact
> > >that a
> > > > tech has spent many an hour just learning the how the systems
>work and
> > > > those systems change almost daily at times. So yes, shops do
>ask for a
> > > > higher wage and get it because we are way past bailing wire and
>stickum.
> > > >
> > > > In my shop, I charge the $75.00 per hour plus parts rate and I
>work on
> > > > Birds. Though, as Mike told you, I have worked on Vectra's and
> > >bounders and
> > > > Fleetwood products at the same price. I am also one tech that
> > >prefers the
> > > > customer to be with me, if he/she so chooses as I am working on
> > >their coach.
> > > >
> > > > Bottom line is, information, data, questions and answers on the
> > >forum gives
> > > > anyone a powerful tool, and most of us have learned to use it
>along
> > >with
> > > > learning to do some things by our on hand. And in truth, most of
> > >those that
> > > > do some of the work, learns the systems in them, end up having a
> > >greater
> > > > sense of Ownership and the resultant pride that goes with.
>There is
> > >nothing
> > > > wrong with Birds and you won't find a better coach for not only
>fun
> > >but
> > > > safety out on the road.
> > > >
> > > > Safe travels,
> > > >
> > > > Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
> > > > Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma
> > > >
> > >
><<http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/index.htm>http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/index.htm\
>http://home.swbell.net/rlf47/i
>ndex.htm
> > > >
> >
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