Pricey repairs

[Jack & Donna Smith]

ALL: Though I didn't plan it this way, I seem to be getting an idea
on the price of reparing a "Vintage" Coach.
The first 'Mistake' was that we got it at a great price.. Then we
took it to San Diego for a weekend. Brakes locked up and wouldnt
move, so we took it to Holland Motors, feeling they knew something
about Birds. They simply farmed the job out and hit us with a $3500+
bill. (Felt we were ripped off).
Later that year, we drove it to Seattle, via Utah. Had to replace a
couple of chassis heater hoses along the way. In Grants Pass, we
spent just under $2K to replace a cracked cylender head.
The next spring, we replaced the refigerator, Shore Power cord, and
receptical and re-upgraded to 50A. (someone had installed 30A stuff)!
Then we had some front end maintenance done, (rutine), and they
discovered the brake wheel cylenders had to be replaced. More$$$.
Now with the addition of new tires and carpet we should be done. I
thank the members of the Board that have helped me so much.
Oh, yeah, a few months after we got the coach we layed out #3K for a
paint job.
Well, as Jeff Miller commented, "Pay Now Or Pay Later".
A minor note: The latches on both closet doors and the barhroom need
replacment. Went down to the local marine supply store, and WOW, $97
each for these items.. Lowes must have something I can use!!!!
West Marine makes Camp World look cheap!!
Jack & Donna Smith
1973FC31
SoCal

===================================================================


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner wrote:
>
> Mike this is scary.........you and I agree. I believe this issue of
> what it costs to upgrade and maintain an older Bluebird is very
> important here, and for the most part misunderstood. Time after time
> I have seen people buy these older coaches and then are stunned when
> they get their first bill for redoing the brakes for instance. One
> fellow sent me an email off net asking if $3500 was out of line for
> replacing the front brakes, rear drums, S cams, brake shoes etc. What
> could I say? In my case I have been working on and off pretty
> steadily for 4 years repairing and replacing parts and upgrading my
> 1982 FC35. Mike I believe you have spent even more money and time on
> yours havent you?
>
> The bottom line is if you want to have a reliable coach then expect
> to spend either some major time if you are mechanically inclined, or
> some major bucks to get a used one up to snuff and reliable when
> travelling. For instance I have my generator control box out now and
> am completely rebuilding it. The ITS relay for it( should cost about
> $5.00 its so simple) costs $200.00 by the time I pay shipping from
> Kinsley Power a Kohler dealer.
>
> But there is good news for anyone buying an older Bluebird. Most of
> the parts are available from Bluebird, truck repair shops, and/or
> NAPA. And members on this forum will help with the information you
> need if you chose to do it yourself and are mechanically adept.
>
> tom
> 1982 FC35
> Vernon Center,NY
>
>
> At 09:29 AM 10/20/2005, you wrote:
> >yeah, mebbe, but you have to have "issues" to take on the
> >stewardship of a vintage Wanderlodge.
> >Most wannabes would be advised to buy a late model used type C, more
> >in sync with their "consumer mentality.
> >In broad strokes: if you subscribe to "Consumer Reports", GET OUTA
HERE!!!!
> >Mike Hohnstein
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Winston
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 8:18 AM
> > Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Pricey repairs
> >
> >
> > Scott, you might want to lay off the caffeine for awhile.
> >
> > -Winston
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 11:37 PM
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Pricey repairs
> >
> >
> >
> > Tom, your thoughts on the purchase of a coach are just a tad off the
> > mark! Sorry.. You own a coach that is almost 10yrs older than
what he
> > is looking at..and how long have you owned your coach..and when was
> > the last time you entered the buying market?? I think the market has
> > changed since then. For you to make that comment/conclusion from the
> > posts from Wallace and Mike is kinda wayyyy off base. You have no
> > clue the condition of that coach. I believe that he (Wallace) is
> > somewhat of a seasoned BB owner and certainly has a VERY
> > QUALIFIED "consultant" with him to make that decision. Don't you
> > think they evaluated the price vs repairs..hence value..Maybe just
> > maybe..there were some "other" things and given they BOTH have been
> > around BB for years that they could make this decision?? As you
> > said "you have no idea what his standards are" ...it is not always
> > black and white..Price deduct all the "things" YOU expect to be in
> > order. Sheesh you don't even know what the price was...gimme a
> > break..and by the way "what exactly is a high standard" seems like
> > mebbe your level and someone elses may just be a little
different. So
> > please refrain...Actually are you screwing up the wannabes???
> > hmmm...marketing vs engineering..the debate continues!!
> >
> > Scott B
> > 86FC35
> > SC
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Wallace I have no idea what your standards are when selecting a
> > > coach. I suppose it depends a lot on how much of the maintenance
> > and
> > > repair you are capable of doing. But I noticed that you said there
> > > were far to many problems including tires and batteries.
Those two
> > > items would not bother me in the least however I would reduce the
> > > price I would pay for the coach by the amount to replace both of
> > > those items. Same with other things that Ralph found.
> > >
> > > I would guess there are others on this forum that are either
> > > considering upgrading to a newer Bluebird or becoming first time
> > > buyers. I would not want them to get the impression that anything
> > > should be a show stopper when considering a coach. In my case when
> > > looking for a Bluebird I would not consider any coach that had
rust
> > > on the chassis or body panels unless it was something that my
local
> > > Bluebird school bus dealer could not repair at an attractive
price.
> > >
> > > Bottom line in my opinion is to get a coach that either has been
> > > maintained to a high standard or is offered at a price where
it can
> > > be upgraded to that level.
> > >
> > > tom
> > > 1982 FC35
> > > Vernon Center,NY
> > >
> > >
> > > At 09:29 PM 10/19/2005, you wrote:
> > > >Mike, saw your post so thought I would add my 2 cents. We (Ralph
> > &
> > > >I) looked at the 91 today and decided to pass. Won't bore you
> > with
> > > >details, but far too many problems to correct including new tires
> > > >and probably batteries. Will keep the ear open for other deals.
> > > >Regards;
> > > >Wallace & Faye Craig
> > > >
> > > >mbulriss <mbulriss@y...> wrote:
> > > >Winston,
> > > >
> > > >Now that we see this, no wonder that owner scared you with his
> > tales
> > > >of expensive repairs! Interesting sales strategy on his part!
> > > >
> > > >As Scott and Ralph pointed out, we all need to be educated
> > consumers
> > > >and shop around if a quote seems to peg our BS sniffer meter. I
> > hope
> > > >that first guy you ran into is still holding the rusty exhaust
> > > >pipe also!>
> > > >
> > > >Buddy Gregg service..... that explains a lot. I'll let Ralph
> > comment
> > > >further on that when he gets back into town, but if there's a way
> > to
> > > >make it expensive, Buddy's guys can do it. I asked them to check
> > for
> > > >a suspected air bag leak in a specific bag. Their response was
> > > >$4,500-5,000 to replace all the air bags. They "wouldn't just
> > replace
> > > >one bag". Of course they never bothered to evn look at it either!
> > > >Ralph freed up the sticky air valve for me at a Lone Star
> > > >Birds rally with a $3 can of PB Blaster (I think it was). An air
> > > >dryer filter R&R at Buddy's was I think a $600 or 700 quote (3-4
> > hours
> > > >labor plus $100+ parts); versus the $32 filter and the hour and a
> > half
> > > >I took to do it myself! I work slow.....
> > > >
> > > >Since the owner mentioned Cat, I will assume that the 91 in
> > question
> > > >was an SP model. Can't speak to that model specifically;
maybe Hank
> > > >or someone else can comment on the $1500 of labor to change an
> > > >alternator. I still can't fathom having to R&R the bumper to
get to
> > > >the alternator, nor can I see it taking more than 2 hours
total to
> > get
> > > >that done. Makes the PT Detroits seem much easier to work on now!
> > > >
> > > >The comment about the Caterpiller shop having to "fabricate tools
> > > >because they do not generally work on Bluebirds and their tools
> > don't
> > > >work" cracked me up. That's hilarious! Now I know Harley's have
> > some
> > > >special "factory only" tools, but I've never found anything
on the
> > > >Bird that wasn't readily available in my own set of "non-
> > professional"
> > > >tools, much less at a professional repair facility or dealer
shop.
> > > >
> > > >While the prior owner seems to have delighted in throwing money
> > away,
> > > >you *can* find "competent" service facilities for more reasonable
> > > >prices. Some people only go to their auto dealers for oil
changes.
> > > >Some people enjoy bragging about how much things cost them as
> > > >a badge of their affulence. Most folks on these forums are more
> > > >concerned with doing things a little more economically, and
having
> > it
> > > >done right the first time.
> > > >
> > > >As was stated by several other members, you just have to be a
smart
> > > >consumer and seek advice when you need it, before you throw
> > yourself
> > > >to the wolves. I think the responses that you are seeing here
> > should
> > > >indicate that there are other ways to be sure things are fixed
> > > >properly without just throwing $$$ at it with no questions asked.
> > > >Please don't be scared off by this one owner. I hope that you are
> > > >seeing by the responses here that the situation you have here
> > seems to
> > > >be an anomoly rather than the rule.
> > > >
> > > >Also, before you buy, you might want to consider having someone
> > that
> > > >really knows what they are doing, thoroughly check out the
> > prospective
> > > >Bird for you so that there are no expensive surprises.
> > > >
> > > >Good luck with your hunt!
> > > >
> > > >Mike Bulriss
> > > >83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale
> > > >91 PT40 "Texas Minivan"
> > > >San Antonio, Texas
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, winston barrows
> > > >
> > > >wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > install is
> > > >maybe 4 hours.>>
> > > > > Hi, Ralph,
> > > > > According to the owner, the book is three hours bumper off and
> > three
> > > >hours bumper on for six hours. This is what he writes:
> > > > >
> > > > > I took my unit to Buddy Gregg, in Knoxville TN for service.
> > $115.00
> > > >per hour. the cost of parts will not be the shock. The shock is
> > > >getting something done, done right, and done to the high
> > expectations
> > > >that Bluebird owners possess. By way of example, shortly after
> > > >purchase, the fuel gauge went to "empty" even though it was
clearly
> > > >full. Buddy Gregg traced the repair to the sensor located at the
> > top
> > > >of the fuel tank. This is accessed through a door on the floor of
> > the
> > > >coach, which was overlayed with 3/4 inch plywood and the marble
> > floor.
> > > >the estimate to fix? $6-700, plus the $10.00 sending unit,
but they
> > > >could not replace the marble they would have to chisel out of the
> > > >floor. Everything in a Bluebird is like that. I asked them to
look
> > at
> > > >the alternator/battery system because the green dash light
> > sometimes
> > > >came on (which I now know is normal). They replaced the
alternator.
> > > >Cost of alternator (which I now do not believe had any problems)
> > $350;
> > > >Cost of labor to replace alternator?
> > > > > $1,500. why so expensive? because they had to take the bumper
> > off,
> > > >and then take off all the belts and hoses in the engine. three
> > hours
> > > >off, and three hours on ( that is just the labor for the bumper).
> > You
> > > >don't even want to know what Caterpiller charges to look at
> > Bluebirds.
> > > >Caterpiller likes dealing with businesses that own tractors. Hell
> > if
> > > >you bill your tractor out for 2 or three hundred per hour,
you can
> > > >afford thousands to have a GED trained technician tell you you
> > need a
> > > >fuel filter, and then hand you a bill for $2,000, (labor at $130
> > per
> > > >hour) plus materials (a $75.00 filter which should have been what
> > was
> > > >checked within the first hour). Of course, they have to bill 2 to
> > > >three hours to put paper on the floor of the coach so they don't
> > track
> > > >in sludge, and then fabricate tools because they do not generally
> > work
> > > >on Bluebirds and their tools don't work.
> > > > >
> > > > > The original price you pay for a Bluebird doesn't really
matter
> > > >much. It is the beginning of a process that is akin to placing a
> > > >vacuum cleaner on you wallet and watching the money
dissapear. End
> > of
> > > >owner email text.
> > > > > It seems to me that part of the responsibility of this forum
> > should
> > > >be to educate folks on the scale of economy of Wanderlodge
> > ownership.
> > > >A lot of people think Buddy Gregg is a reputable dealership
and I'm
> > > >not saying they aren't (especially since I've had no experience
> > with
> > > >them). So my logic is if such a competent repair shop costs so
> > much,
> > > >then what's it going to cost to go to the guy you'll educate?
> > > > >
> > > > > "Ralph L. Fullenwider" wrote:
> > > > > Hello Winston:
> > > > >
> > > > > Mike B gave you some pretty good answers to your question. And
> > yes,
> > > >some
> > > > > repairs can be costly, no question there. Blow a 12R 22.5 tire
> > and
> > > >wheel
> > > > > wells along with various other damage can occur.
> > > > >
> > > > > As to the pricey alternator job, I agree it was pricey but
> > > >necessary? Even
> > > > > removing the bumper the un install and re install is maybe 4
> > hours.
> > > >Perhaps
> > > > > something else happened, like a broken bolt that had to be
> > drilled out.
> > > > > More than likely they 2 tech's on the job and charged for each
> > > >tech.? That
> > > > > is not right either, in my book. It would be interesting
to have
> > > >seen that
> > > > > bill and what the write up was. No I am not defending that
> > shop, in
> > > >fact I
> > > > > would be dubious of it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Part of what this and other Forums were started for was to
help
> > one
> > > >another
> > > > > as we can and also to list the "known" good shops around the
> > Country to
> > > > > take the birds to and then on the other hand, to know what
> > shops not to
> > > > > take them to. This Forum is intended to be a clearing house of
> > seeking
> > > > > answers to problems and so forth. Even if your not doing the
> > repair
> > > >work <
> > > > > which, as Mike pointed out, will save one some money> one can
> > come
> > > >to the
> > > > > forum's to try to get a better idea of what to expect when
> > taking a
> > > >Coach
> > > > > to a shop. Information among us, is a powerful tool, and one
> > that
> > > >can help
> > > > > you recognize if that shop or repair facility is running high
> > on costs.
> > > > >
> > > > > Repairs on Birds, Prevost, Newell or any high line Coach will
> > > >usually run
> > > > > higher in some respects as they are far advanced machines with
> > more
> > > > > amenities than most others. With that advancement, comes the
> > fact
> > > >that a
> > > > > tech has spent many an hour just learning the how the systems
> > work and
> > > > > those systems change almost daily at times. So yes, shops do
> > ask for a
> > > > > higher wage and get it because we are way past bailing
wire and
> > stickum.
> > > > >
> > > > > In my shop, I charge the $75.00 per hour plus parts rate and I
> > work on
> > > > > Birds. Though, as Mike told you, I have worked on Vectra's and
> > > >bounders and
> > > > > Fleetwood products at the same price. I am also one tech that
> > > >prefers the
> > > > > customer to be with me, if he/she so chooses as I am
working on
> > > >their coach.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bottom line is, information, data, questions and answers
on the
> > > >forum gives
> > > > > anyone a powerful tool, and most of us have learned to use it
> > along
> > > >with
> > > > > learning to do some things by our on hand. And in truth,
most of
> > > >those that
> > > > > do some of the work, learns the systems in them, end up
having a
> > > >greater
> > > > > sense of Ownership and the resultant pride that goes with.
> > There is
> > > >nothing
> > > > > wrong with Birds and you won't find a better coach for not
only
> > fun
> > > >but
> > > > > safety out on the road.
> > > > >
> > > > > Safe travels,
> > > > >
> > > > > Ralph and Charolette Fullenwider
> > > > > Ralph's RV Solutions, Duncan, Oklahoma
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
>
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