Trojan Batteries And Chargers

[orbitalsolutions]

Thanks for the reply, George.

I have far more experience with large boats than with busses. When
it comes to life support systems the same is true as you have
stated -- everything is a compromise.

In this case the AMG's are 40AH's less per unit @6VDC than the T-
145's. They also cost 109 dollars more per battery. The advantage,
of course, is no fooling around with watering batterys. The
manufactures of these batterys also report an increase of 300% in
the amount of times the batterys can be cycled before replacement is
needed. So cost may not be a factor, in fact, If the AGM's lasted 3
times as long they actually would be the more cost effective.

Does anyone need a good deal on some slightly used pants with only
about 20 small holes in them?

Nice advantage for a battery to be sealed, and given that you have
the room to build a large enough bank, they may be worth the extra
up-front expense. I am not going to modify the original design of
my coach. Storage is an important consideration in my bus as well.

Given the formentioned facts, and the wisdom I have been able to
garner here and else where, it looks like (4) T-145's are the best
choice for me.

Some may find this interesting: The maximum rate of charge for
conventional lead-acid batterys is equal to 25% of the banks total
AH rating in charging Amps. That's as fast as they will accept a
charge. AMG's, according to their manufactures, have an unlimited
rate of charge !! That's big, and more expensive as well. Now you
have to buy more charging Amps to harvest the benefit of the quick
charging AGM's. It is reccomended to have at least 50% of the banks
total AH rating in charging Amps. This arrangement will cut your
charging time in half! The draw back, is cost. Now you have spent
twice as much for chargers as you would have with the T-145's.
However, you will be running the genny half as much. Keep in mind,
a charging source that is equal to 80% of the total AH's in the bank
will really have you recharging in a hurry.

In a practical application it's all about the 'cycle.' How long do
you want to have power without recharging(size of bank) and how long
do you want to charge to top off the bank(bank type and charging
Amps.)

One can play around with the above ratios and find that they can
spend more on charging Amps and have less AH's in the bank,
requiring more frequent, but shorter, charging time.

Everyone will have different requirements and different needs, so
choose wisely.

Thanks to everyone for all the help.

-James
78FC33SB
LasVegas NV






--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, George Lowry
wrote:
>
> Hi James,
>
> First thing to remember is: Everything in an RV is a compromise.
Cost
> vs. convenience vs. life cycle vs. god only knows what. The most
bang
> for the buck or AH per $$ is the lead acid batteries. The AGM
(Absorbed
> Glass Mat) gives the next best and the Gel is the most expensive
for the
> AH Capacity. For the house batteries, AH capacity is the
determining
> factor.
>
> In this Alpine, they put Interstate lead acid wet batteries. I
have
> never had good luck with Interstates but will try them until they
fail.
> Also, we have only had this rig for two weeks and do not have
enough
> experience with it to give a good analysis.
>
> In the GM bus we converted, I had four Trojan L-16 Batteries in
> series-parallel. That was the best I could fit in the space and
for the
> cost. There are better batteries such as the Surette and the
Rolls but
> the cost is prohibitive. When we bought the Wanderlodge, the
dealer had
> replaced the Gell cells with Interstate Lead acid wet cells. Three
> boiled before we made it home and the other three followed soon
after.
> Interstate refused to stand behind them. I replaced them with the
East
> Penn Deka AGM (12V). The advantage was that no service was needed
> however, the AH capacity was lower. Those batteries have served
well.
>
> Re: Charging: With a three stage charger, the charging rate
varies.
> For most, with the battery at 70 degrees F, the first stage is
commonly
> called the "bulk" stage. This means that the charger will pour in
the
> full rate until the voltage raises to 14.4 volts. In
the "acceptance"
> stage the voltage is maintained at 14.4V and the current rate
(amps)
> decreases until it reaches some predetermined percentage of the
battery
> capacity, usually around 2 - 4%. At that point, the voltage is
reduced
> to the "float" voltage, around 13.5 - 13.7 volts. It normally
took me
> about three hours to recharge the batteries after draining them to
the
> 50% level.
>
> Hope this helps. I have just been called for dinner. If you have
more
> questions, please ask.
>
> George Lowry
> '06 Alpine Apex - Former owner '95 WBDA 4203
> Spearfish, SD in Palm Springs
>
>
> orbitalsolutions wrote:
>
> >Sounds good, Steve. I will talk to you further about the fill
> >system if I decide to go with the T-145's.
> >
> >I'm confused about conventional lead-acid and the new AGM
> >batteries. I am trying to understand the practical differences
in
> >charging time to bring a bank up from a 50% discharge.
> >
> >Lifeline Co. has a 6V AGM that is a perfect repacement. At 6
volts
> >they are rated at 220AH. Four of these babies will give me a
total
> >of 440AH @ 12V. I like the idea of a sealed power cell, but I
have
> >lived with Trojans for many years. What I would like to know is
if
> >there is a shorter charge time needed for AGM than the Trojans,
> >given a fixed charge rate of 110A 3 stage temperature sensitive
> >charge.
> >
> >I think George Lowery might be able to help me(if that's
possible).
> >
> >George, in your new Apex I believe you have Lifeline AGM's. If
so,
> >is the value of the battery bank 12V? What is the total AH
rating
> >of the bank? At a 50% discharge, how long do you have to run
your
> >genny to get a full charge? Lastly, How many amps are you
charging
> >them with?
> >
> >AGM's may be worth the price to me if they redeuce the charge
time
> >compared to the Trojans. I hve been informed, by theory experts,
> >that the rate of charge of AGM types is unlimited, but I do not
want
> >to spent 1500 dollars for chargers. I am going to replace the
> >originals with (2) 55A 3 stage temp sensing chargers.
> >
> >That gives me a charging total of 110Amps. Will these chargers
take
> >a 50% depleted AGM bank to full considerably faster than if they
> >were charging the Trojans?
> >
> >Theory is just that. I am interested in practical application
> >results, and have no refrence points.
> >
> >Still scratching my head and learning.
> >
> >
> >-James
> >78FC33SB
> >LasVegas NV
> >
> >
> >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Birtles"
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>you can use a single point battery watering system
> >>I have them
> >>Stephen 77fc35
> >>
> >>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, George Lowry
> >>
> >>
> >wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>James,
> >>>
> >>>A couple of thoughts: The best way to fill the batteries is to
> >>>
> >>>
> >use an
> >
> >
> >>>automatic fill device such as came standard on our Alpine Apex.
> >>>
> >>>
> >All you
> >
> >
> >>>have to do is flip a switch until the float indicators tell you
> >>>
> >>>
> >all
> >
> >
> >>>cells are full. You can't overfill. System holds around a
gallon
> >>>
> >>>
> >of
> >
> >
> >>>distilled water. Before we got this, we used a douche/enema
> >>>
> >>>
> >bag. holds
> >
> >
> >>>a quart of water and is easy to control.
> >>>
> >>>If you want to add to usable capacity, if you have not already
> >>>
> >>>
> >added a
> >
> >
> >>>three stage charging system, do that. A standard single stage
> >>>
> >>>
> >charger
> >
> >
> >>>will only fill the battery to approximately 85% of its AH
> >>>
> >>>
> >capacity.
> >
> >
> >>>Since you should not discharge to less that 50% of capacity,
you
> >>>
> >>>
> >have
> >
> >
> >>>lost 30% of usable right off the top. The three stage charger
> >>>
> >>>
> >will
> >
> >
> >>>charge to 100% of capacity gaining you that 30% in usable
> >>>
> >>>
> >capacity.
> >
> >
> >>>Not only do you get more usable battery capacity but the
> >>>
> >>>
> >batteries will
> >
> >
> >>>last longer also.
> >>>
> >>>George Lowry
> >>>'06 Alpine Apex - Former owner '95 WBDA 4203
> >>>Spearfish, SD enjoying the warmth in Palm Springs.
> >>>
> >>>orbitalsolutions wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Hello, Fred. According to the Trojan Web Site the dimentions
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >are
> >
> >
> >>>>identical for the T-105 and the T-125. The T-145 is apx. 7/8
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >of an
> >
> >
> >>>>inch taller with the same footprint.
> >>>>
> >>>>I do not know what a Blue Point filler is. Sounds interesting
> >>>>though. I fill my batteries with a baster and an eye droper.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >I get
> >
> >
> >>>>the job done eventually, with minimum spilliage and believe I
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >can do
> >
> >
> >>>>the same with the taller T-145's in my '78 FC.
> >>>>
> >>>>I still have not priced the T-145's, but they are a nice jump
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >in
> >
> >
> >>>>AH's, at 12VDC you can add a useable 70 AH's !!
> >>>>
> >>>>-James
> >>>>78FC33SB
> >>>>LasVegas NV
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "fred89sp"

> >>>>wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>I have T 125s (taller than the T 105s) in my 89SP and my Blue
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >Point
> >
> >
> >>>>>battery filler just fits.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>How do you top off your batteries with the added height of
the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >T
> >
> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>145s,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>have you found a lower profile battery filler?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, dspithaler@ wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Hi James I have four T-145's in my house compartment up
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >front
> >
> >
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>&
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>they work good for me. I have had them in for two years. Just
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >make
> >
> >
> >>>>>sure you have the room for the higher batteries in the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >compartment.
> >
> >
> >>>>>They are in a 89 SP 36'. I had T-105's in my 79 FC that
worked
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>good also.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>Don 89 SP 36'
> >>>>>>Butler, PA in Zephyrhills FL right now
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>From: orbitalsolutions
> >>>>>>To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> >>>>>>Sent: Wed, 01 Feb 2006 01:44:43 -0000
> >>>>>>Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Trojan Batteries And Chargers
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I just finished looking at the Trojan Web Site. There are
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >three
> >
> >
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>models
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>that I want to talk about -- T-105, T-125, T-145.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>These are all identical in dimensions with the only
exception
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>being that
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>the T-145 is slightly less than an inch taller.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Here are the 20hr rates -- T-105 = 225AH, T-125 = 240AH, T-
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >145 =
> >
> >
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>260AH.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>The only other difference is their weight -- T-105 = 60lbs,
T-
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>125 =
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>66lbs, T-145 = 72lbs.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Seems like the heavier models have larger plates and should
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >have
> >
> >
> >>>>>>greater durability, I suppose, more Amp Hours for sure. So I
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >am
> >
> >
> >>>>>>wondering why everyone uses the T-105's? Is there a problem
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >with
> >
> >
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>using
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>the higher reated models?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>If any one has any input on a new charge/converter to
replace
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >the
> >
> >
> >>>>>>original I would appreciate it. the original
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >charger/converter
> >
> >
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>works
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>fine but I have been told that it will boil the batteries.
In
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>fact, the
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>previous owner of my bus has a timer in line with the
charger
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >to
> >
> >
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>prevent
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>it from running full time when the bus is "pluged in." This
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>actually
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>works fine but I'm assuming that it is a one stage charger
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >and
> >
> >
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>was
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>wondering if it would make sense to replace it with a modern
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >3
> >
> >
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>stage
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>job.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>