1991 Sidney Clark Wanderlodge

[Michael Heavener]

Mike,
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my questions. I realize
that a lot of it is opinion but it is educated opinion that you have paid for
with experience. That has value to me.
Michael Heavener
Orlando, FL Gonnabe


mbulriss <mbulriss@...> wrote:
Michael,

Good series of compound questions! Not sure I can answer them all,
and many of them are personal opinion type answers - so remember,
everybody's got one! I am going to attempt to answer your questions
in order below, after repeating each of your questions, to help in
readibilty.

> Does the fact that it is a Royal conversion have an impact
> on resale down the road plus or minus?
My personal *opinion* is that the Royale conversions have usually been
priced at a premium when they come on the market.

> Who is Royal and are they considered on par with the factory
> conversions?
In general, I think the Royales can absolutely be considered at least
on a par with the factory conversions. Sid's interior is really
pretty. The operating systems are typical BB. As I recall, all his
operating systems on his 91 were the same as on my 91.

Royal, as they were originally known, was a high end bus converter.
Here's a synopsis of the company history from an FMCA write-up at
http://www.fmca.com/fmc2005/maymag/royale.asp:

This coach conversion company actually began in 1977 as Royal Motor
Coach. It was founded and operated by George and Mary Cornish of
Elkhart, Indiana. Monaco Coach and a group of investors purchased the
company in 1989, and Monaco became sole owner in 1994.

Royal Motor Coach carried a reputation for creating luxurious custom
conversions for its customers. The company accommodated a variety of
clients over the years, among them a surgeon whose coach had an
operating room in the rear, and a dog fancier who needed space for
grooming and showing purebred canines.

When Monaco purchased the company, it added an "e" to the name. The
first motorhome to carry the Royale Coach name was sold at the March
1990 FMCA convention in Tampa, Florida.

The Elkhart company was making only 15 units each year in 1989 when it
was purchased, and one of the early aims of the new owners was to
increase production without decreasing quality. Production is up to
approximately 24 units per year now, and coach number 425, a pre-sold
unit, will be completed this month (as written in May 2005).

>How do you go about finding a baseline price to start
>working from to get to a value wholesale/retail at todays market.
>I have looked on the various sites and I am seeing asking price
>spreads of 40K+ for what appears from the adds to be similar
>if not equal units.
LOTS of market research is the best answer here. After enough
research and time in the market, you will recognize a deal when you
see one. Look at vintagebirds.com, birdconnection.com, RVtrader.com,
busforsale.com, web search on Wanderlodge, etc, etc. In the end it is
Economics 101: what a willing buyer will pay to a willing seller for a
particular good or service (at any point in time). IMO, the
birdconnection prices usually start out high and then come down to
meet the true market. You can look at NADA, but my personal opinion
is remember who puts that book out - dealers. Since they deal with
trade-ins, they want the book values low. The market will dictate the
value more than the NADA, IMO. The NADA usually has a base value
stated for the Birds that is less than market, again - IMO! You have
to add in all sorts of options from the NADA book to get closer to
actual market value. This seems to me to be where the process can go
awry, since the list of options in the NADA are typically standard
items on the Wanderlodges, and people forget to add the book 'options'
back in to the base. As an example from my personal very recent
history, the NADA guides have a base value in the low $30k range for a
83 PT40 currently. That's what a dealer would offer you on trade. As
a buyer, IMO you will not find a quality, ready to go places, 83 PT40
for anywhere near that price. A re-builder, yes; a desperation sale
(with needs), maybe; quality/ready to go, no. Caveat to readers - all
of the foregoing is IMO. If you have another opinion, you are free to
share it - just don't bother to attack mine.

>It also appears that since the price of fuel has gone up
>the market has gone soft on prices, your thoughts?
I can not personally dispute your theory. I think that has caused
some soft selling out there in the re-sale market. The price
elasticity of the lower end of the market (resale) is tighter than on
the high end (new), especially with all the baby boomers coming into
the market. My friends selling new Marathon conversions ($1.3M and
up) report very strong sales over the past two years. In reality, if
you are playing with these 'toys' in this market, cost of fuel
probably is not/should not be a consideration - or you should not be
in this market. Actually that point should be the same in the new or
used market. Ironically however, I believe your point on fuel has
hurt the resale market.

> What about insurance and routine upkeep what are realistic
>numbers to budget per year? I will use the coach monthly on
>weekends with a few longer trips mixed in during the year..
Ditto on usage - I still maintain full time employment. I think
insurance and average budget numbers vary widely. I suppose my fixed
monthly carrying cost is about $350 per month outside of purchase
price, unexpected repairs, fuel cost. I get to that number as follows
on my 1991 WB40: Approx $100/mo insurance (high stated value, low
deductible/high liability - does not include the umbrella policy I
also carry); approx $180/mo storage (inside garage with electricity -
thanks homeowners association! - but keeps it dry, out of the sun and
ready to go); and I'm guessing an average of $50-75/month avg. license
costs, normal maint and small repair/upgrade of items (but I do my own
maint and use synthetics throughout which may raise my average maint
costs, but is is less than paying someone do do every oil/filter
change, lube, etc. and I know it was done right, no pan bolts
stripped, etc.) Variable costs like purchase cost financing, fuel
usage, park expenses, etc. are based on personal usage, area of the
country.

> I have owned and airplane and a 36 foot house boat so I
>have some idea of the cost of toys.
Good - you should be realistic and perfectly suited to one of these
toys then!

>I live in Florida so I guess I need to look into what type of
>taxes are involved with owning a coach.
Excellent point - often overlooked I bet. This absolutely should be a
consideration for any buyer. I live in a relatively benign tax area
(Texas) so notice I did not mention taxes in my carrying costs. This
could be a sizable monthly budget number depending where you live. As
I recall, there is a member on the forum right now (in Utah? perhaps)
selling his coach because he can't justify the $100/month in taxes.

>Does it make sense to incorporate in another state?
>If so which ones are most favorable?
Depends on your personal situation regarding purchase price, sales
taxes, licensing fees, property taxes, and appetite for risk
(depending on your resident state's approach and enforcement of such
things as out-of-state registrations).
Montana LLCs seem to be a favorite spot for non-resident
registrations. I think we have numerous members on the forum with
such things. On the other hand, the nationwide Escapees club is based
in Livingston, TX and many of their members keep mail forwarding
'residences' at that address.

Great question! Hope the responses help! Happy hunting. You should
look at Sid's coach.....

Mike Bulriss
1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
San Antonio, TX


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Michael Heavener
wrote:
>
> Mike
> Does the fact that it is a Royal conversion have an impact on
resale down the road plus or minus? Who is Royal and are they
considered on par with the factory conversions? Are there issues with
documentation with a Royal conversion? How do you go about finding a
baseline price to start working from to get to a value
wholesale/retail at todays market. I have looked on the various sites
and I am seeing asking price spreads of 40K+ for what appears from the
adds to be similar if not equal units. It also appears that since the
price of fuel has gone up the market has gone soft on prices, your
thoughts?
> What about insurance and routine upkeep what are realistic numbers
to budget per year? I will use the coach monthly on weekends with a
few longer trips mixed in during the year..
> I have owned and airplane and a 36 foot house boat so I have some
idea of the cost of toys. I would just like to hear from someone first
hand what they are finding. I live in Florida so I guess I need to
look into what type of taxes are involved with owning a coach. Does it
make sense to incorporate in another state? If so which ones are most
favorable?
> Thanks for any help anyone can be.
> Michael Heavener
> 407-383-7796
> Orlando, FL Gonnabe
>
> mbulriss <mbulriss@...> wrote:
> Michael,
>
> Welcome to the forum. Sid's coach is one of the relatively rare
> Royale conversions of a Wanderlodge from the early 90s. It is a side
> isle bath model which makes for a very private 'master' bedroom. The
> interior was very elegant with rich hardwoods. It is a really nice
> coach. Like most coaches, it had a few things that needed fixing, but
> nothing major that I know of. Ralph Fullenwider did a PDI for another
> member, so he may have more particulars to add, but this is a nice
> coach. Sid was a miantanence tech for the USPS and he was always
> working on his coaches, so I expect the running gear to be in good
> shape. For some people, it is a negative that the Royale conversions
> did not have a roof top goat rail, aluminum diamond plate on the roof
> or a ladder to access the roof. Other than that, it was a
> Wanderlodge with a rich interior and the interior amenitites were
> similar to my 91 Wanderlodge. Maybe Ralph will add some more to the
> story. Someone is going to get a nice Bird.
>
> Mike Bulriss
> 1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
> San Antonio, TX
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Patricia"
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Forum members,
> > My name is Michael Heavener and I have been reading and educating
> > myself by way of this forum for several weeks. I do nor currently
> > own a coach but the time is drawing close for me to jump in. This
> > group has been very informative thank you for the education so far.
> > I have been looking at BB and Prevost interestingly I have not been
> > able to find a Prevost forum that is anywhere close to as active and
> > informative as yours. Which at this point is causing me to lean more
> > towards a BB because of the access to knowledge.
> >
> > With that said I have an interest in the 1991 Wanderlodge that Adam
> > Clark is selling for his deceased father. Is there anyone on the
> > forum that is familar with this particular coach and if so would you
> > be willing to share what you know with me? If not what do I need to
> > be carefull of on this year and model and what questions do I need
> > to ask. I have looked at the buyers check list but I am sure that
> > there are other things that I need to know. I am no mechanic but do
> > know which end of a screwdriver to hold.
> > I am not looking to be full time I am looking for something for
> > Myself, wife and 15 year old daughter to do some sightseeing in.
> > If you do not feel comfortable sharing information on the forum and
> > want to email me directly that is fine heavener328@
> > This is my first post of any type so if I am not following the rules
> > someone please let me know.
> > Thank you
> > Michael Heavener
> > Orlando, Fl Wannabe
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Recreational vehicles Wanderlodge Automotive maintenance
Recreational vehicle dealer Used recreational vehicles
Automotive radiators
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





SPONSORED LINKS
Recreational vehicles Wanderlodge Automotive maintenance
Recreational vehicle dealer Used recreational vehicles Automotive radiators

---------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


Visit your group "WanderlodgeForum" on the web.

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


---------------------------------





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]