RIV and Blue Bird "Brand"

[mbulriss]

John,

Guess I haven't been keeping up with the new models. Couple of
questions: Isn't the M-450 vs. 450LXi just a name change? The specs
show the Cat engine and Meritor suspension products that were the
M-450 spec, versus the DD Series 60 engine of the 'old' LXi.

And the BB web site still shows the M380 as a product. Is it truly
gone? I thought they had "re-engineered" it to fix the problems.

Mike Bulriss
83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale
91 PT40 "Texas Minivan"
San Antonio, TX

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, John Suter
wrote:
>
> How 'bout our just saying, "there are numerous
> reasons" you don't find any more M-380's being
> manufactured, and the M-450's vanished after they were
> announced with great 'fanfare and hoopla,' and
> suddenly LXi's returned to the production line (Even
> if at much higher list prices).
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> --- Henry Jay Hannigan wrote:
>
> > ---JAMES: RE: Engineering problems on m-380's
> > Probably the best people to answer ur questions
> > would be the BB
> > people at Ft. Valley..ask them about the 1.
> > BRAKES..2.
> > SKIN..3.Wieght ratios..to name a few.........the
> > defense for liable
> > and slander is...TRUTH..
> > Regards,
> > Hank Hannigan
> > 90SP36
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, James ONeil
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hank,
> > > I am new to the rv¹s, although have done
> > considerable research,
> > etc. I was
> > > considering the m380, because I liked the size and
> > it was a BB.
> > That being
> > > said when looking at I had the feeling that it was
> > a monaco with a
> > higher
> > > price tag.
> > > Could you enlighten me on its engineering
> > failures.
> > > Thanks,
> > > Jim O¹Neil
> > >
> > >
> > > On 11/2/05 12:38 PM, "Henry Jay Hannigan"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > --- My 2 cents worth about Bluebird........I
> > love my 90SP36..no
> > tag
> > > > etc. BB got it right when they made the
> > M380..almost same as my
> > > > 90SP36 (check the specs) I think they would
> > have sold a TON of
> > the
> > > > M380"s IF the ENGINEERS would have got it
> > right!!!
> > > > Regretably the ENGINEERS for whatever
> > reason..bad grades in
> > > > engineering school, cost cutting measures,
> > WHATEVER, DID NOT
> > get it
> > > > right.
> > > > The M380 could have revolutionized BB, instead,
> > the M380 hurt BB.
> > > > I still love my 90SP36 and have encouraged the
> > BB President ceo
> > etc.
> > > > to make a 2007 version of my beautiful
> > 90SP36.....make it 38 feet
> > > > long, NO tag, MID door...AND get some excellent
> > ENGINEERS to
> > design
> > > > it and sell it for $595,000...TO me, this
> > action would put BB
> > back
> > > > on top!!
> > > > That's my 2 cents worth......What do others
> > think??
> > > > sincerely,
> > > > Hank Hannigan
> > > > Beautiful 90SP36
> > > > Still in Hawaii(two more weeks)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mbulriss"
> > <mbulriss@y...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Tom,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I believe that you raise some excellent
> > points. My personal
> > > > opinion
> > > >> > is that with the rounds of ownership changes
> > in the past
> > years, BB
> > > > has
> > > >> > lost whatever semblance of lifestyle
> > marketing that they had
> > in the
> > > >> > past. Corporate cost cutting has been the
> > main focus of the
> > new
> > > >> > ownership groups. Additionally, the common
> > ownership of
> > Prevost
> > > > and
> > > >> > Bluebird probably generated some indirect
> > pressure from that
> > parent
> > > >> > company over having two high end products
> > addressing the same
> > > >> > relatively small market space (in potential
> > number of units,
> > not
> > > >> > dollar volume).
> > > >> >
> > > >> > As a result, for the past few years they have
> > had little to no
> > > >> > direction in lifestyle marketing, product and
> > market
> > segmentation,
> > > > or
> > > >> > overall corporate direction with regard to
> > the Wanderlodge
> > > > division.
> > > >> > Cutting staff, cutting advertising in the
> > FMCA magazine to
> > zero
> > > > for a
> > > >> > while (when they used to command the
> > marketing coveted inside
> > front
> > > >> > cover each month), and selling the marketing
> > symbol of the
> > donut
> > > > wagon
> > > >> > (stated reason too expensive) that used to
> > hit many of the RV
> > > >> > rally/shows (and always got additional free
> > press exposure in
> > rally
> > > >> > coverage), are all symbolic of the loss of
> > direction/dedication to
> > > > the
> > > >> > market.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > In the past eight years that I have owned a
> > Bird, they have
> > never
> > > > had
> > > >> > a strong and dedicated nationwide dealer
> > network. Holland,
> > > > Bleakley
> > > >> > and Parliament are the exceptions to that and
> > the three
> > shining
> > > > stars
> > > >> > of their dealer network, carrying real
> > inventory, but very
> > > > regionally
> > > >> > spaced. The other "dealers" are mostly what
> > you see at
> > Shorewood,
> > > >> > IMO. Even when Buddy Gregg was a dealer, I
> > never saw more
> > than 4-
> > > > 5 BB
> > > >> > in total on his Dallas lot (new and used).
> > Since Buddy quit,
> > we
> > > > have
> > > >> > had three "dealers" in Texas come and go.
> > The first two after
> > > > Buddy
> > > >> > never even had any inventory as far as I
> > know, and the
> > > > newest "dealer"
> > > >> > is historically a consignment lot and has one
> > new LXi listed
> > on its
> > > >> > website (unknown if it actually exists
> > on-site or is on
> > order) and
> > > > one
> > > >> > 1990 on consignment. I stopped at a
> > then-listed "dealer" near
> > > > Albany,
> > > >> > NY (Alpine?) on a trip a few years back in
> > time and they had
> > no BB
> > > >> > inventory, and no sales person that knew
> > anything about them.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > The less than stellar dealer network was not
> > important a few
> > years
> > > >> > back when BB actually had some marketing
> > effort, was the
> > brand to
> > > > be
> > > >> > aspired to, was selling everything they made
> > and there was
> > less
> > > >> > competition in their market space. In the
> > last few years
> > while
> > > > they
> > > >> > have been floundering, the market for higher
> > end coaches has
> > grown
> > > >> > tremendously due to baby boomers, and
> > numerous other players
> > have
> > > >> > entered the market space. We have to hope
> > that BB regains
> > some
> > > > sense
> > > >> > of marketing and starts developing a real
> > market segmentation
> > and
> > > >> > product plan. In the meantime we have these
> > wonderful
> > coaches they
> > > >> > have produced that will outlive most of us on
> > this forum.
> > These
> > > >> > forums can also serve to fill the gap in the
> > lifestyle
> > marketing by
> > > >> > creating camaraderie, a knowledge and support
> > base, and on-
> > going
> > > >> > demand for the products. All of this is
> > helpful to the
> > company as
> > > >> > the management team tries to re-invigorate
> > the brand. Maybe
> > > > someone
> > > >> > there will realize this someday.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Mike Bulriss
> > > >> > 83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale
> > > >> > 91 PT40 "Texas Minivan"
> > > >> > San Antonio, TX
> > > >> >
> > > >> > P.S. I would also be suspicious of a '91 PT
> > 40 traded in on
> > an
> > > >> > Allegro Bus! But in the meantime, if
> > someone offered me
> > $139K
> > > > for my
> > > >> > '91, it would be gone.....
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com,
> > "Tom"
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > One of the selling points of MH ownership
> > is the
> > > > lifestyle...kind of
> > > >>> > > like when Harley sells motorcycles. The
> > "brand" rallies
> > are an
> > > >>> > > important part of that and if BB is to
> > remain a quality
> > > > brand...the
> > > >>> > > rally must be an anticipated event and
> > well attended.
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > You read frequently about the "brand"
> > rallies for Country
> > Coach,
> > > >>> > > American Coach, Newell, Foretravel,
> > Newmar, Tiffin,
> > Winnebago
> > > > and
> > > >>> > > others. Many owners pride themselves on
> > not missing any
> > annual
> > > >>> > > rallies. If the BB loyalists sit on the
> > sidelines (or
> > accross
> > > > the
> > > >>> > > street) it is likely that the rally will
> > atrophy and die.
> > I
> > > > don't
> > > >>> > > think that is good for any Blue Bird owner
> > or enthusiast!
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > I believe I read earlier that BB
> > understands that the
> > changes to
> > > > RIV
> > > >>> > > may have been too much...too soon? If
> > this is true I would
> > > > think it
> > > >>> > > would make sense to be supportive in
> > helping define an RIV
> > that
> > > > would
> > > >>> > > again be exciting and well attended. If,
> > on the other
> > hand, BB
> > > > is non-
> > > >>> > > reflective and non-supportive regarding
> > the rally format
> > and
> > > >>> > > costs...well...that probably tells you
> > where they sit
> > relative
> > > > to the
> > > >>> > > BB "brand" future plans.
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > Just the musings from a wanbee...not meant
> > to
> > offend...Thank
> > > > You...Tom
> > > >>> > > Rootness in Northern Minnesota
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > P.S. Just visited the Minnesota BB dealer
> > in Anoka...shows
> > > > another BB
> > > >>> > > issue. They have two BBs...both '04 (?)
> > demo models used
> > by the
> > > > two
> > > >>> > > owners. I don't think they sold a BB in
> > the last 18
> > > > months...not
> > > >>> > > really trying. Maybe they have the brand
> > so the owners can
> > have
> > > > demos.
> > > >>> > >
> > > >>> > > Primarily a Tiffin and other brand dealer.
> > BTW they did
> > just
> > > > take in
> > > >>> > > a '91 PT 40 on trade on an Allegro Bus.
> > The '91 is quite
> > messy
> > > > and my
> > > >>> > > guess is they don't know how to sell it
> > and will end up
> > > > wholesaleing in
> > > >>> > > 90 days. Asking $139K which IMHO is quite
> > high for a bit
> > > > dicey '91.
> > > >>> > > If someone is interested you might want to
> > call them.
> > Shorewood
> > > > RV in
> > > >>> > > Anoka, MN. TMR
> > > >>> > >
> > > >> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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