dry camping

[Leroy Eckert]

I see my automatic name posting is not working. So, back to the old way.
Leroy Eckert
1990-WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
Dahlonega, GA
Royale Conversion--Primus converted to Wabasto.

Rob Robinson wrote: Leroy
what coach and year do you have?

On 03/12/2007, Leroy A. Eckert wrote:
>
> John, in my case I have not filled the propane tank in three years. It
> operates the cook top, reefer, and outside grill. It is still half
> full. Up until recently, we used the coach quite often. Heat comes
> from Wabasto, (hot). We (5 of us) can dry camp without significant
> problems operating the genset about 4 hours per day if we are
> conservative. Otherwise, the genset runs longer.
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com,
> "bubblerboy64" > wrote:
> >
> > I had no idea that there even was an RV of any type that did not have
> > propane tanks? Guess that shows how out of touch I am. How about
> > heat in cold conditions? I guess you would certainly be running the
> > generator then? I guess you pays your money and takes your choice.
> > Gasoline or propane. Makes not a lot of difference?
> > John Heckman
> > central Pa
> > 1973 FC
> >
> > > Great explanation of the amp hour figure, Pete. Your refrigerator
> > > shouldn't use that much juice though. If you can keep the door
> > shut
> > > most of the time, it should run about 30% of the time. The duty
> > cycle
> > > goes up a lot if you're fanning the door. Also, the defrost heater
> > > uses a lot of juice when it cycles. It will normally occur once or
> > > twice a day and last for about 12 or 15 minutes. Then the
> > > refrigeration system has to run longer to cool things back off.
> > You
> > > can improve things a lot with a domestic refrigerator by keeping
> > the
> > > condenser coils clean and keeping the doors shut as much as
> > possible.
> > > Also, if there is a switch on its control panel for "humidity
> > > control" or some such, you might want to keep it in the off or
> > normal
> > > or whatever it's labeled position. This is for some electrical
> > > heating elements that are in the mullions around the door openings
> > to
> > > keep them from sweating in high humidity areas. The humidity
> > probably
> > > doesn't get that high inside your coach anyway. They use a fair
> > > amount of electricity 24/7 when turned on. Not a big issue on
> > shore
> > > power, but could be significant when dry camping. A lot of the
> > newer
> > > refrigerators solve the sweating issue by routing the hot gas
> > piping
> > > from the compressor through the mullions before going to the
> > > condenser; that's why you'll notice the mullions feeling hot to
> > the
> > > touch.
> > >
> > > I'd like to see what the actual running amp draw is on one of
> > these.
> > > I work on appliances for a living; maybe I can remember to put an
> > > Amprobe on one and see. I have a digital data logger that I can
> > leave
> > > in a refrigerator for a couple of days and tell you exactly how
> > long
> > > it's running and when it defrosts. Guess I need to find out how
> > much
> > > current it's drawing. Never been an issue in a home, but would be
> > > good to know for when running on batteries.
> > >
> > > Travis, the Newell guy in Lubbock, Texas
> > >
> > >
> > > On Dec 2, 2007, at 7:58 PM, Pete Masterson wrote:
> > >
> > > > The primary drain (through the inverters) is the power to the
> > > > refrigerator. It will limit your ability to operate off the grid
> > with
> > > > an all-electric coach. (My '95 is all electric.) Newer
> > refrigerators
> > > > are perhaps a bit more economical to operate than the 22 cu ft 2-
> > door
> > > > Amana that I have in my coach -- but you're likely to experience
> > the
> > > > similar power drain.
> > > >
> > > > For example, I have 6 model 4D AGM-type house batteries. These
> > have
> > > > about 220 amp hours each. So, 6 x 220 = 1320 amp hours. However,
> > > > that's an overstatement of what's available, as you can't deplete
> > the
> > > > battery more than 50% for standard wet cell or by more than 60%
> > for
> > > > AGM batteries. So that would mean there's between 660 and 792 amp
> > > > hours available from the battery to power all the 120 volt systems
> > > > that are serviced by the inverters. (I have two, 2500 watt
> > > > inverters.) Also, don't forget that the inverters cause a loss
> > (10%
> > > > or more) while changing the 12 vdc to 120 vac. Don't forget that
> > amps
> > > > X volts = watts. So, a 1000 watt refrigerator is about 8.3 amps at
> > > > 120 v per hour. Convert that to 12 vdc, and its about 83 amps.
> > With
> > > > the inverter loss, that's about 95 or 100 amps (per hour while the
> > > > refrigerator is running)... so that suggests about 6 to 8 hours or
> > > > perhaps 10 hours of operation (since it doesn't run 100% of the
> > time)
> > > > just for the refrigerator. Add the microwave (high draw, but short
> > > > period) plus the various lights and the 12 volt stuff... and then
> > you
> > > > can see that the batteries are kind of limiting!
> > > >
> > > > Here's where you have to do some math. First figure out the
> > > > approximate hourly draw in amps of each appliance that runs on 120
> > > > volts. Don't forget that _some_ of the lights run on 120 volts and
> > > > are powered by the inverters. Of course, all 12 volt items and
> > > > appliances also draw from the batteries. So, you also have to
> > figure
> > > > out what 12 volt appliances you have operating. Do not ignore the
> > > > draw from the Microphor toilet compressor nor from the air-system
> > > > auxiliary compressor, if you have one (I don't) along with various
> > > > signal lights, etc. etc. -- well, to be honest, there's a _lot_ of
> > > > load on a 'bird and without a source to recharge, the batteries
> > can
> > > > be drawn down to a dangerous level in just a few days, even when
> > > > everything is "off."
> > > >
> > > > So, back to the refrigerator -- the practical situation is to make
> > > > sure your house batteries are fully charged. If you have an
> > isolation
> > > > switch to "turn off" everything, it would help. Anyway, when you
> > > > think your batteries are fully charged, isolate them (and unplug
> > > > shore power), then check the voltage. (This is the "resting"
> > > > voltage.) For AGM batteries, it should be about 12.9 to 13.0 volts
> > > > (wet cell batteries are different). Then, turn on the isolation
> > > > switch (apply the normal load) -- wait and hour, remove the load,
> > and
> > > > check the voltage. 12.4 volts is 50% depletion and 12.25 volts is
> > 60%
> > > > depletion -- do not let the volts drop below 12.25 volts!!! ---
> > this
> > > > is "resting" voltage measured from the battery terminals.
> > > > Measurements drawn from other locations (e.g. a fuse panel) are
> > > > likely to be much lower due to line losses.)
> > > >
> > > > My experience has been that "boondocking" isn't especially
> > practical.
> > > > I can shut down the generator in the evening, but I usually need
> > to
> > > > restart after about 12 hours or so. So, if I shut down at 8:00 PM,
> > > > I'll usually need to start the generator by about 8:00 AM the next
> > > > morning to avoid causing any damage to my batteries. This has
> > caused
> > > > a fair amount of heart burn when I've stayed in a CA state park
> > that
> > > > had a generator operation ban between 8 PM and 10 AM ... those two
> > > > hours were nail biting time and I had to shut down any/all items
> > that
> > > > made demands on the batteries.
> > > >
> > > > My plan (the next time I boondock) is to pull the breakers on the
> > > > inverters perhaps at 10 PM or so, and see how the batteries are
> > the
> > > > next morning. The refrigerator won't warm up much during the
> > night,
> > > > if it is not opened and if we're in a reasonably cool location.
> > > >
> > > > I've compared notes with another all-electric Blue Bird owner
> > (just
> > > > this past weekend at the Lone Star Birds rally in Kerrville, TX)
> > and
> > > > I'm of the impression that my voltage drain seems to be on the
> > high
> > > > side (so I may need to further explore possible reasons).
> > > >
> > > > The reality is that you can probably turn off the generator in the
> > > > evening then turn it back on in the morning without major
> > problems.
> > > > You can run the generator for 3 hours or so to bring the batteries
> > > > back up to full or near full charge. Then you can shut down the
> > > > generator for a few hours, then run it for 3 or 4 hours until the
> > > > time you wish complete quiet at night (or until any required shut
> > > > down time occurs).
> > > >
> > > > The coach can be off the grid without the generator for periods of
> > > > several hours -- but it will need to have power to recover the
> > > > batteries rather more often and/or for longer periods than coaches
> > > > that have LP gas appliances.
> > > >
> > > > See Poop Sheets by Phred at:
> > > > <http://www.phrannie.org/phredex.html>
> > > > #5 has a thorough discussion of "electrical stuff."
> > > >
> > > > Pete Masterson
> > > > '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> > > > aeonix1@
> > > > On the road at Lubbock Texas following a great weekend with the
> > Lone
> > > > Star Birds at Kerrville, TX.
> > > >
> > > > On Dec 1, 2007, at 2:08 PM, medpro28 wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Just purchased a 2005 LXi and need some advice on dry camping.
> > I
> > > > cook
> > > > > in bbq contests and sometimes no power or 110 only. Dealer says
> > I
> > > > > will
> > > > > have to use the generator all the time. Although the unit is all
> > > > > electric, will not use the stove top or microwave while camping.
> > > > > It is
> > > > > hard to believe I can't dry camp any length of time and then use
> > > > > generator to keep batteries up.
> > > > > Is the dealers advice right or does anyone have thoughts or
> > > > > suggestions?
> > > > >
> > > > > Jerry Smith
> > > > > 2005 450 LXI
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>
>
>

--
Rob, Sue & Merlin Robinson
94 WLWB

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