bio Diesel

[Jay Darst]

Al,

The Diesels trucks we are having troubles with have less than 10,000
miles on them. 2 of them had 4,000 miles on them when we changed the
filters under warranty for a 2nd time.

The trucks symptoms were simply no power. Changed the fuel filter
and off they go again.

We have been cutting open the filters lately, the last 5 or 6 have
had a brownish slime coating the element.

I know for a fact that the 2 trucks mentioned were ordered by the
customers, built promptly by GM, delivered to customers within a day
or 2 of their arrival and been driven daily since using 11% Bio-
Diesel.

My service team is in contact with GM techline working on a
solution. Gm techline has informed us that they will void the fuel
system warranty on any vehicle that has more than a 5% biodiesel
mixture in its fuel system.

The DaimlerChrysler folks have sent us a bulletin that indicates
that any fuel above 5% Bio has caused the high pressure injection
pumps to fail due to lack of lubrication to the fuel pump. They too,
are voiding the pump warranty on anything over 5%.

We are in the farmimg belt, where they make 70bu/acre soybeans and
225bu/acre corn, my store is in a big farming community. I sure
would rather see us burning 100% Bio, certainly would make my buyers
buy more!

If there is a petroleum engineer on this forum who can provide us
the answer, we certainly are listening.

Thanks
Jay Darst
HPR Automotive Superstore
Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep-Buick-Pontiac-GMC
Sullivan, IL
Service Director Bob Freeman
217-728-4366 voice phone

85PT40 6V92 burning 11% BioDiesel and still changing Racor fuel
filters at every oil change for 3 years and 40,000 miles.
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Al" wrote:
>
> Jay,
> Actually, biodiesel is a very good solvent. So it's not the
> fuel that is dirty. Basically, biodiesel is cleaning out years of
> petro build-up. If you don't believe me, take a very dirty engine
> and put diesel on it and let it sit for 5 minutes and rinse.
> Nothing comes off the engine. Put the biodiesel on it and rinse
and
> it will clean engine better than any off the shelf engine
cleaner.
> Plus biodiesel is derived from plants so it is a renewable
resourse
> unlike the petro we by from our friends in the middle east now
over
> $75 a barrel. Generally after a couple of tanks, your system will
> be cleaned out and the freq. filter changes will go away.
>
> Al Johnson
> 96 BMC
> Mandeville, Louisiana
> Currently in Chongqing, China.
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Darst"
> wrote:
> >
> > Guy,
> > I have not been exposed to the B20 blend of Bio diesel.
> >
> > But would like to make a comment here...
> >
> > The local distributor(in Sullivan,IL) only sells the 11% bio-
blend.
> >
> > With the late model GMC Duramax Diesels, we have found
consistency
> > in the need to replace the fuel filter every 2,000 miles when
> using
> > this 11% Bio-Diesel.
> >
> > In the Cummins, no problems such as this.
> >
> > We have a GMC customer who has replaced the OEM factory filter
> with
> > a Racor, don't know which micron filter element he is using...
> >
> > Seems that the 11% Bio-Diesel has a thicker viscosity making it
> > harder to filter the crap out prior to selling it to the
retailers.
> >
> > I buy most of my fuel from this place, I get 6.4mpg with it.
Used
> to
> > get 5.5 to 6.0 with Flying J fuel, but its about the same now.
The
> > real point here is, my Racor element is covered with a black
slime
> > when the filter is changed every 5,000 miles, when the DD oil &
> > filter change is performed.
> >
> > I use Lucas fuel treatment at the rate of 1 gallon per 400
> gallons
> > of diesel, should be sufficient to prevent algae/plant growth in
> my
> > fuel.
> >
> > Bottom line here, Bio-Diesel is not as clean as fossil fuel.
> >
> > My brother Dan has mentioned that the powers that be are
changing
> > the diesel fuel chemical mix in September, causing a very minor
> > reduction in the cetane(like Octane is to gasoline).
> >
> > Diesel fuel, seems like a moving target right now ...;~}
> >
> > Later
> > Jay Darst
> > 85PT40
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "guysmalley"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Has anybody actually tried B20 bio diesel blend?
> > >
> > > http://www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodiesel...lingsites/
> > >
> > > guy smalley
> > > 86 pt 40
> > >
> >
>

[fl_bluebird_1983]

Check out this site http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel.html
I have to agree with AL, everything I have read says it "should" be
cleaner, but you can't argue with the facts on the ground that you
have seen. I wonder if the "slime" is from storage tank deposits or
if they mixed it with a lower grade diesel? Some peoples idea of
biodiesel is to mix used cooking oil with diesel, WRONG that will
cause problems like you have stated. I doubt that anyone would do
that to a brand new truck! check out this link to a guy that is doing
just that http://tinyurl.com/qo5o3

Thanks
Bruce
'83FCSB
"Blue Skies" still reasearching biodiesel, collecting parts for
processor

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Darst"
wrote:
>
> Al,
>
> The Diesels trucks we are having troubles with have less than
10,000
> miles on them. 2 of them had 4,000 miles on them when we changed
the
> filters under warranty for a 2nd time.
>
> The trucks symptoms were simply no power. Changed the fuel filter
> and off they go again.
>
> We have been cutting open the filters lately, the last 5 or 6 have
> had a brownish slime coating the element.
>
> I know for a fact that the 2 trucks mentioned were ordered by the
> customers, built promptly by GM, delivered to customers within a
day
> or 2 of their arrival and been driven daily since using 11% Bio-
> Diesel.
>
> My service team is in contact with GM techline working on a
> solution. Gm techline has informed us that they will void the fuel
> system warranty on any vehicle that has more than a 5% biodiesel
> mixture in its fuel system.
>
> The DaimlerChrysler folks have sent us a bulletin that indicates
> that any fuel above 5% Bio has caused the high pressure injection
> pumps to fail due to lack of lubrication to the fuel pump. They
too,
> are voiding the pump warranty on anything over 5%.
>
> We are in the farmimg belt, where they make 70bu/acre soybeans and
> 225bu/acre corn, my store is in a big farming community. I sure
> would rather see us burning 100% Bio, certainly would make my
buyers
> buy more!
>
> If there is a petroleum engineer on this forum who can provide us
> the answer, we certainly are listening.
>
> Thanks
> Jay Darst
> HPR Automotive Superstore
> Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep-Buick-Pontiac-GMC
> Sullivan, IL
> Service Director Bob Freeman
> 217-728-4366 voice phone
>
> 85PT40 6V92 burning 11% BioDiesel and still changing Racor fuel
> filters at every oil change for 3 years and 40,000 miles.
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Al" wrote:
> >
> > Jay,
> > Actually, biodiesel is a very good solvent. So it's not the
> > fuel that is dirty. Basically, biodiesel is cleaning out years
of
> > petro build-up. If you don't believe me, take a very dirty
engine
> > and put diesel on it and let it sit for 5 minutes and rinse.
> > Nothing comes off the engine. Put the biodiesel on it and rinse
> and
> > it will clean engine better than any off the shelf engine
> cleaner.
> > Plus biodiesel is derived from plants so it is a renewable
> resourse
> > unlike the petro we by from our friends in the middle east now
> over
> > $75 a barrel. Generally after a couple of tanks, your system
will
> > be cleaned out and the freq. filter changes will go away.
> >
> > Al Johnson
> > 96 BMC
> > Mandeville, Louisiana
> > Currently in Chongqing, China.
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Darst"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Guy,
> > > I have not been exposed to the B20 blend of Bio diesel.
> > >
> > > But would like to make a comment here...
> > >
> > > The local distributor(in Sullivan,IL) only sells the 11% bio-
> blend.
> > >
> > > With the late model GMC Duramax Diesels, we have found
> consistency
> > > in the need to replace the fuel filter every 2,000 miles when
> > using
> > > this 11% Bio-Diesel.
> > >
> > > In the Cummins, no problems such as this.
> > >
> > > We have a GMC customer who has replaced the OEM factory filter
> > with
> > > a Racor, don't know which micron filter element he is using...
> > >
> > > Seems that the 11% Bio-Diesel has a thicker viscosity making it
> > > harder to filter the crap out prior to selling it to the
> retailers.
> > >
> > > I buy most of my fuel from this place, I get 6.4mpg with it.
> Used
> > to
> > > get 5.5 to 6.0 with Flying J fuel, but its about the same now.
> The
> > > real point here is, my Racor element is covered with a black
> slime
> > > when the filter is changed every 5,000 miles, when the DD oil &
> > > filter change is performed.
> > >
> > > I use Lucas fuel treatment at the rate of 1 gallon per 400
> > gallons
> > > of diesel, should be sufficient to prevent algae/plant growth
in
> > my
> > > fuel.
> > >
> > > Bottom line here, Bio-Diesel is not as clean as fossil fuel.
> > >
> > > My brother Dan has mentioned that the powers that be are
> changing
> > > the diesel fuel chemical mix in September, causing a very minor
> > > reduction in the cetane(like Octane is to gasoline).
> > >
> > > Diesel fuel, seems like a moving target right now ...;~}
> > >
> > > Later
> > > Jay Darst
> > > 85PT40
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "guysmalley"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Has anybody actually tried B20 bio diesel blend?
> > > >
> > > > http://www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodiesel...lingsites/
> > > >
> > > > guy smalley
> > > > 86 pt 40
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[Mike Hohnstein]

Mixing petro with the veg oil sounds unlikely, and the lack of technical
information regarding the "process" used doesn't impress me. From what I have
learned, burning waste oil to heat my building is that you can use either petro
or veg oil but do not mix. True bio diesel has the glycerin stripped out and
seems to mix successfuly with petro fuel but it still clouds at higher temps
than petro diesel. Bio 10 is probably the best mix at this time for most users,
higher ratios used under advisement.
It seems sensible to me to use a heated fuel tank and supply to burn staight veg
oil and start and shut down on diesel. Pretty normal system successfully used
by many people and it saves the hassle of processing the used oil, when I get to
the point I have more time than money, I'll go that direction.
Mike Hohnstein
Germantown, WI
83FC35
----- Original Message -----
From: fl_bluebird_1983
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 7:03 AM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: bio Diesel


Check out this site http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel.html
I have to agree with AL, everything I have read says it "should" be
cleaner, but you can't argue with the facts on the ground that you
have seen. I wonder if the "slime" is from storage tank deposits or
if they mixed it with a lower grade diesel? Some peoples idea of
biodiesel is to mix used cooking oil with diesel, WRONG that will
cause problems like you have stated. I doubt that anyone would do
that to a brand new truck! check out this link to a guy that is doing
just that http://tinyurl.com/qo5o3

Thanks
Bruce
'83FCSB
"Blue Skies" still reasearching biodiesel, collecting parts for
processor

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Darst"
wrote:
>
> Al,
>
> The Diesels trucks we are having troubles with have less than
10,000
> miles on them. 2 of them had 4,000 miles on them when we changed
the
> filters under warranty for a 2nd time.
>
> The trucks symptoms were simply no power. Changed the fuel filter
> and off they go again.
>
> We have been cutting open the filters lately, the last 5 or 6 have
> had a brownish slime coating the element.
>
> I know for a fact that the 2 trucks mentioned were ordered by the
> customers, built promptly by GM, delivered to customers within a
day
> or 2 of their arrival and been driven daily since using 11% Bio-
> Diesel.
>
> My service team is in contact with GM techline working on a
> solution. Gm techline has informed us that they will void the fuel
> system warranty on any vehicle that has more than a 5% biodiesel
> mixture in its fuel system.
>
> The DaimlerChrysler folks have sent us a bulletin that indicates
> that any fuel above 5% Bio has caused the high pressure injection
> pumps to fail due to lack of lubrication to the fuel pump. They
too,
> are voiding the pump warranty on anything over 5%.
>
> We are in the farmimg belt, where they make 70bu/acre soybeans and
> 225bu/acre corn, my store is in a big farming community. I sure
> would rather see us burning 100% Bio, certainly would make my
buyers
> buy more!
>
> If there is a petroleum engineer on this forum who can provide us
> the answer, we certainly are listening.
>
> Thanks
> Jay Darst
> HPR Automotive Superstore
> Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep-Buick-Pontiac-GMC
> Sullivan, IL
> Service Director Bob Freeman
> 217-728-4366 voice phone
>
> 85PT40 6V92 burning 11% BioDiesel and still changing Racor fuel
> filters at every oil change for 3 years and 40,000 miles.
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Al" wrote:
> >
> > Jay,
> > Actually, biodiesel is a very good solvent. So it's not the
> > fuel that is dirty. Basically, biodiesel is cleaning out years
of
> > petro build-up. If you don't believe me, take a very dirty
engine
> > and put diesel on it and let it sit for 5 minutes and rinse.
> > Nothing comes off the engine. Put the biodiesel on it and rinse
> and
> > it will clean engine better than any off the shelf engine
> cleaner.
> > Plus biodiesel is derived from plants so it is a renewable
> resourse
> > unlike the petro we by from our friends in the middle east now
> over
> > $75 a barrel. Generally after a couple of tanks, your system
will
> > be cleaned out and the freq. filter changes will go away.
> >
> > Al Johnson
> > 96 BMC
> > Mandeville, Louisiana
> > Currently in Chongqing, China.
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Darst"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Guy,
> > > I have not been exposed to the B20 blend of Bio diesel.
> > >
> > > But would like to make a comment here...
> > >
> > > The local distributor(in Sullivan,IL) only sells the 11% bio-
> blend.
> > >
> > > With the late model GMC Duramax Diesels, we have found
> consistency
> > > in the need to replace the fuel filter every 2,000 miles when
> > using
> > > this 11% Bio-Diesel.
> > >
> > > In the Cummins, no problems such as this.
> > >
> > > We have a GMC customer who has replaced the OEM factory filter
> > with
> > > a Racor, don't know which micron filter element he is using...
> > >
> > > Seems that the 11% Bio-Diesel has a thicker viscosity making it
> > > harder to filter the crap out prior to selling it to the
> retailers.
> > >
> > > I buy most of my fuel from this place, I get 6.4mpg with it.
> Used
> > to
> > > get 5.5 to 6.0 with Flying J fuel, but its about the same now.
> The
> > > real point here is, my Racor element is covered with a black
> slime
> > > when the filter is changed every 5,000 miles, when the DD oil &
> > > filter change is performed.
> > >
> > > I use Lucas fuel treatment at the rate of 1 gallon per 400
> > gallons
> > > of diesel, should be sufficient to prevent algae/plant growth
in
> > my
> > > fuel.
> > >
> > > Bottom line here, Bio-Diesel is not as clean as fossil fuel.
> > >
> > > My brother Dan has mentioned that the powers that be are
> changing
> > > the diesel fuel chemical mix in September, causing a very minor
> > > reduction in the cetane(like Octane is to gasoline).
> > >
> > > Diesel fuel, seems like a moving target right now ...;~}
> > >
> > > Later
> > > Jay Darst
> > > 85PT40
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "guysmalley"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Has anybody actually tried B20 bio diesel blend?
> > > >
> > > > http://www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodiesel...lingsites/
> > > >
> > > > guy smalley
> > > > 86 pt 40
> > > >
> > >
> >
>






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Al]

Jay,
I participate in two other biodiesel forums and I have requested
some backup help from these groups. I have been involved in the
biodiesel movement for about 3 years. Started making fuel about a
year ago after I did 2 years of research to make sure I knew what I
was getting into. In the next day or two, I should have some more
information hopefully from them since I am no chemistry expert.
These groups in case someone else is interested in learning about
biodiesel is: biodiesel and biodieselbasics.

In addition, a website to learn about it is:
http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/

Here is a person that has alot of expertise in the biodiesel
community. She travels over the US training people how to make ASTM
quality fuel at the home level.
http://girlmark.com/

Here is the caption I put to the above groups looking for more
information: "I need some help clarifying my position that bio-
diesel is a solvent and cleans out the fuel system plus adds more
lubrication to the fuel system than diesel. Please read over the
complete message and give me some thoughts so I can summarize to the
Wanderlodge group.
Or if you like, please jion the group and chime in. More knowledge
is needed.
Al Johnson
Mandeville, Louisiana"

I am not trying to be compative, just trying to give the facts as I
know it. Plus like you said, if this alternative fuel were to catch
on, what a spur to our economy especially the farming communities.
Not to mention, the cleaner air we breath. Please take some time to
look over the above information and draw your own conclusion.

Al Johnson
'96 BMC B20
'93 Dodge B100
'03 Dodge D100
Mandeville, Louisiana
Currently in Chongqing, China till end of month
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Darst"
wrote:
>
> Al,
>
> The Diesels trucks we are having troubles with have less than
10,000
> miles on them. 2 of them had 4,000 miles on them when we changed
the
> filters under warranty for a 2nd time.
>
> The trucks symptoms were simply no power. Changed the fuel filter
> and off they go again.
>
> We have been cutting open the filters lately, the last 5 or 6 have
> had a brownish slime coating the element.
>
> I know for a fact that the 2 trucks mentioned were ordered by the
> customers, built promptly by GM, delivered to customers within a
day
> or 2 of their arrival and been driven daily since using 11% Bio-
> Diesel.
>
> My service team is in contact with GM techline working on a
> solution. Gm techline has informed us that they will void the fuel
> system warranty on any vehicle that has more than a 5% biodiesel
> mixture in its fuel system.
>
> The DaimlerChrysler folks have sent us a bulletin that indicates
> that any fuel above 5% Bio has caused the high pressure injection
> pumps to fail due to lack of lubrication to the fuel pump. They
too,
> are voiding the pump warranty on anything over 5%.
>
> We are in the farmimg belt, where they make 70bu/acre soybeans and
> 225bu/acre corn, my store is in a big farming community. I sure
> would rather see us burning 100% Bio, certainly would make my
buyers
> buy more!
>
> If there is a petroleum engineer on this forum who can provide us
> the answer, we certainly are listening.
>
> Thanks
> Jay Darst
> HPR Automotive Superstore
> Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep-Buick-Pontiac-GMC
> Sullivan, IL
> Service Director Bob Freeman
> 217-728-4366 voice phone
>
> 85PT40 6V92 burning 11% BioDiesel and still changing Racor fuel
> filters at every oil change for 3 years and 40,000 miles.
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Al" wrote:
> >
> > Jay,
> > Actually, biodiesel is a very good solvent. So it's not
the
> > fuel that is dirty. Basically, biodiesel is cleaning out years
of
> > petro build-up. If you don't believe me, take a very dirty
engine
> > and put diesel on it and let it sit for 5 minutes and rinse.
> > Nothing comes off the engine. Put the biodiesel on it and rinse
> and
> > it will clean engine better than any off the shelf engine
> cleaner.
> > Plus biodiesel is derived from plants so it is a renewable
> resourse
> > unlike the petro we by from our friends in the middle east now
> over
> > $75 a barrel. Generally after a couple of tanks, your system
will
> > be cleaned out and the freq. filter changes will go away.
> >
> > Al Johnson
> > 96 BMC
> > Mandeville, Louisiana
> > Currently in Chongqing, China.
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Darst"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Guy,
> > > I have not been exposed to the B20 blend of Bio diesel.
> > >
> > > But would like to make a comment here...
> > >
> > > The local distributor(in Sullivan,IL) only sells the 11% bio-
> blend.
> > >
> > > With the late model GMC Duramax Diesels, we have found
> consistency
> > > in the need to replace the fuel filter every 2,000 miles when
> > using
> > > this 11% Bio-Diesel.
> > >
> > > In the Cummins, no problems such as this.
> > >
> > > We have a GMC customer who has replaced the OEM factory filter
> > with
> > > a Racor, don't know which micron filter element he is using...
> > >
> > > Seems that the 11% Bio-Diesel has a thicker viscosity making
it
> > > harder to filter the crap out prior to selling it to the
> retailers.
> > >
> > > I buy most of my fuel from this place, I get 6.4mpg with it.
> Used
> > to
> > > get 5.5 to 6.0 with Flying J fuel, but its about the same now.
> The
> > > real point here is, my Racor element is covered with a black
> slime
> > > when the filter is changed every 5,000 miles, when the DD oil
&
> > > filter change is performed.
> > >
> > > I use Lucas fuel treatment at the rate of 1 gallon per 400
> > gallons
> > > of diesel, should be sufficient to prevent algae/plant growth
in
> > my
> > > fuel.
> > >
> > > Bottom line here, Bio-Diesel is not as clean as fossil fuel.
> > >
> > > My brother Dan has mentioned that the powers that be are
> changing
> > > the diesel fuel chemical mix in September, causing a very
minor
> > > reduction in the cetane(like Octane is to gasoline).
> > >
> > > Diesel fuel, seems like a moving target right now ...;~}
> > >
> > > Later
> > > Jay Darst
> > > 85PT40
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "guysmalley"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Has anybody actually tried B20 bio diesel blend?
> > > >
> > > > http://www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodiesel...lingsites/
> > > >
> > > > guy smalley
> > > > 86 pt 40
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[Al]

Bruce,
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I have asked the two forums I
participate for their opinion on the matter. But I am with you on a
new truck with less than 10K miles. Somewhere it got bad or dirty
diesel fuel. Now that my trucks have run several tanks of fuel, my
fuel filter is clean. I still change it out monthly as a
preventative measure.
Just to spend a moment to discuss how biodiesel is make at the
homebrew level. I have a diagram that plainly illastrates the
process of making biodiesel:

http://utahbiodieselsupply.com/makingbiodiesel.php

Hopefully this helps to clear up how to make bio-diesel to meet ASTM
fuel standards.

Al Johnson
96 BMC B20
93 Dodge B100
03 Dodge B100
Mandeville, Louisiana
Currently in Chongqing, China ( Coming home end of Month )Huray


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "fl_bluebird_1983"
wrote:
>
> Check out this site http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel.html
> I have to agree with AL, everything I have read says it "should"
be
> cleaner, but you can't argue with the facts on the ground that you
> have seen. I wonder if the "slime" is from storage tank deposits
or
> if they mixed it with a lower grade diesel? Some peoples idea of
> biodiesel is to mix used cooking oil with diesel, WRONG that will
> cause problems like you have stated. I doubt that anyone would do
> that to a brand new truck! check out this link to a guy that is
doing
> just that http://tinyurl.com/qo5o3
>
> Thanks
> Bruce
> '83FCSB
> "Blue Skies" still reasearching biodiesel, collecting parts for
> processor
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Darst"
> wrote:
> >
> > Al,
> >
> > The Diesels trucks we are having troubles with have less than
> 10,000
> > miles on them. 2 of them had 4,000 miles on them when we changed
> the
> > filters under warranty for a 2nd time.
> >
> > The trucks symptoms were simply no power. Changed the fuel
filter
> > and off they go again.
> >
> > We have been cutting open the filters lately, the last 5 or 6
have
> > had a brownish slime coating the element.
> >
> > I know for a fact that the 2 trucks mentioned were ordered by
the
> > customers, built promptly by GM, delivered to customers within a
> day
> > or 2 of their arrival and been driven daily since using 11% Bio-
> > Diesel.
> >
> > My service team is in contact with GM techline working on a
> > solution. Gm techline has informed us that they will void the
fuel
> > system warranty on any vehicle that has more than a 5% biodiesel
> > mixture in its fuel system.
> >
> > The DaimlerChrysler folks have sent us a bulletin that indicates
> > that any fuel above 5% Bio has caused the high pressure
injection
> > pumps to fail due to lack of lubrication to the fuel pump. They
> too,
> > are voiding the pump warranty on anything over 5%.
> >
> > We are in the farmimg belt, where they make 70bu/acre soybeans
and
> > 225bu/acre corn, my store is in a big farming community. I sure
> > would rather see us burning 100% Bio, certainly would make my
> buyers
> > buy more!
> >
> > If there is a petroleum engineer on this forum who can provide
us
> > the answer, we certainly are listening.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Jay Darst
> > HPR Automotive Superstore
> > Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep-Buick-Pontiac-GMC
> > Sullivan, IL
> > Service Director Bob Freeman
> > 217-728-4366 voice phone
> >
> > 85PT40 6V92 burning 11% BioDiesel and still changing Racor fuel
> > filters at every oil change for 3 years and 40,000 miles.
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Al" wrote:
> > >
> > > Jay,
> > > Actually, biodiesel is a very good solvent. So it's not
the
> > > fuel that is dirty. Basically, biodiesel is cleaning out
years
> of
> > > petro build-up. If you don't believe me, take a very dirty
> engine
> > > and put diesel on it and let it sit for 5 minutes and rinse.
> > > Nothing comes off the engine. Put the biodiesel on it and
rinse
> > and
> > > it will clean engine better than any off the shelf engine
> > cleaner.
> > > Plus biodiesel is derived from plants so it is a renewable
> > resourse
> > > unlike the petro we by from our friends in the middle east now
> > over
> > > $75 a barrel. Generally after a couple of tanks, your system
> will
> > > be cleaned out and the freq. filter changes will go away.
> > >
> > > Al Johnson
> > > 96 BMC
> > > Mandeville, Louisiana
> > > Currently in Chongqing, China.
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Darst"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Guy,
> > > > I have not been exposed to the B20 blend of Bio diesel.
> > > >
> > > > But would like to make a comment here...
> > > >
> > > > The local distributor(in Sullivan,IL) only sells the 11% bio-
> > blend.
> > > >
> > > > With the late model GMC Duramax Diesels, we have found
> > consistency
> > > > in the need to replace the fuel filter every 2,000 miles
when
> > > using
> > > > this 11% Bio-Diesel.
> > > >
> > > > In the Cummins, no problems such as this.
> > > >
> > > > We have a GMC customer who has replaced the OEM factory
filter
> > > with
> > > > a Racor, don't know which micron filter element he is
using...
> > > >
> > > > Seems that the 11% Bio-Diesel has a thicker viscosity making
it
> > > > harder to filter the crap out prior to selling it to the
> > retailers.
> > > >
> > > > I buy most of my fuel from this place, I get 6.4mpg with it.
> > Used
> > > to
> > > > get 5.5 to 6.0 with Flying J fuel, but its about the same
now.
> > The
> > > > real point here is, my Racor element is covered with a black
> > slime
> > > > when the filter is changed every 5,000 miles, when the DD
oil &
> > > > filter change is performed.
> > > >
> > > > I use Lucas fuel treatment at the rate of 1 gallon per 400
> > > gallons
> > > > of diesel, should be sufficient to prevent algae/plant
growth
> in
> > > my
> > > > fuel.
> > > >
> > > > Bottom line here, Bio-Diesel is not as clean as fossil fuel.
> > > >
> > > > My brother Dan has mentioned that the powers that be are
> > changing
> > > > the diesel fuel chemical mix in September, causing a very
minor
> > > > reduction in the cetane(like Octane is to gasoline).
> > > >
> > > > Diesel fuel, seems like a moving target right now ...;~}
> > > >
> > > > Later
> > > > Jay Darst
> > > > 85PT40
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "guysmalley"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Has anybody actually tried B20 bio diesel blend?
> > > > >
> > > > >
http://www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodiesel...lingsites/
> > > > >
> > > > > guy smalley
> > > > > 86 pt 40
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[Pete Masterson]

At 5:59 AM +0000 4/25/06, Al wrote:
><snip>
>Plus biodiesel is derived from plants so it is a renewable resourse
>unlike the petro we by from our friends in the middle east now over
>$75 a barrel. <snip>
>
>Al Johnson
>96 BMC
>Mandeville, Louisiana


Al,

I really don't want to start a flame war on this topic... but there
are two types of "bio" diesel.

1. That which recycles used cooking oils obtained from restaurants,
etc. To me, this makes a great bit of sense and it might even be
economically feasible to create more formal collection and recycling
systems to obtain the waste and reprocess it into usable fuel. This
is "win-win" in that a nasty waste product is removed from the waste
stream and turned into something useful.

2. Bio diesel obtained directly from vegetable oil is mostly
processed soy beans. This is potentially an ecological disaster
(along with ethanol from processed corn). Agricultural production
requires substantial amounts of fuel, chemical fertilizers, and
pesticides (or genetically modified plants) to grow efficiently. What
_really_ amazes me is that folks don't think about where all these
soy beans are coming from. WIth due respect to our US farm industry,
they are _not_ the only source of soy beans. A decade or two back,
soy beans were bred that can be grown in tropical climates. When we
visited Peru a couple of years ago, we were shocked to discover that
areas in the headwaters of the Amazon basin are being cleared to grow
... soy beans. Checking statistics, the number one export from Brazil
is.... soy beans. Hopefully, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to
realize that the Amazon rain forest and tropical forests around the
globe are being sacrificed for ... soy beans. Frankly, it's a very
poor ecological trade off.

Better we drill for petroleum in ANWAR, the California and Florida
coasts, and/or figure out how to efficiently process coal, tar sands,
and oil shale into liquid fuels. Bio diesel is no panacea.

--
Pete Masterson -- pete@...
looking for a 91-96 WL .... with RIVITS.

[Dick Gercken]

Amen, Amen, Amen to the reply.

Diesel fuel is a fungible product meaning that if you don't purchase it
here someone else will in another location. You purchase B10 and that
theoretically leaves some pure diesel out there for someone else. It does
not matter who uses what or where as this is a global resource. So the use
of waste oil to thin out diesel is economically efficient.

The NET cost of using soy to produce fuel is likely to be much higher than
what we pay today for diesel. The domestic soy bean is government
subsidized and I suspect so is the rain forest bean. We exploited others
for their oil and are probably doing the same thing now with rain forest
beans. In that darn near everything is subsidized by our government in some
way it may not matter any more anyway.

Happy Motoring All

Dick Gercken
2006 VW Jetta diesel. 2005 Chevy Duramax diesel I use regular pump fuel
Still looking


>>Plus biodiesel is derived from plants so it is a renewable resourse
>>unlike the petro we by from our friends in the middle east now over
>>$75 a barrel. <snip>
>>
>>Al Johnson
>>96 BMC
>>Mandeville, Louisiana
>
>
> Al,
>
> I really don't want to start a flame war on this topic... but there
> are two types of "bio" diesel.
>
> 1. That which recycles used cooking oils obtained from restaurants,
> etc. To me, this makes a great bit of sense and it might even be
> economically feasible to create more formal collection and recycling
> systems to obtain the waste and reprocess it into usable fuel. This
> is "win-win" in that a nasty waste product is removed from the waste
> stream and turned into something useful.
>
> 2. Bio diesel obtained directly from vegetable oil is mostly
> processed soy beans. This is potentially an ecological disaster
> (along with ethanol from processed corn). Agricultural production
> requires substantial amounts of fuel, chemical fertilizers, and
> pesticides (or genetically modified plants) to grow efficiently. What
> _really_ amazes me is that folks don't think about where all these
> soy beans are coming from. WIth due respect to our US farm industry,
> they are _not_ the only source of soy beans. A decade or two back,
> soy beans were bred that can be grown in tropical climates. When we
> visited Peru a couple of years ago, we were shocked to discover that
> areas in the headwaters of the Amazon basin are being cleared to grow
> ... soy beans. Checking statistics, the number one export from Brazil
> is.... soy beans. Hopefully, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to
> realize that the Amazon rain forest and tropical forests around the
> globe are being sacrificed for ... soy beans. Frankly, it's a very
> poor ecological trade off.
>
> Better we drill for petroleum in ANWAR, the California and Florida
> coasts, and/or figure out how to efficiently process coal, tar sands,
> and oil shale into liquid fuels. Bio diesel is no panacea.
>
> --
> Pete Masterson -- pete@...
> looking for a 91-96 WL .... with RIVITS.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Jay Darst]

Al,

I really am NOT taking a position here. I have listed my experiences
with Bio-diesel.

We have discovered a consistency among our customers that have been
buying fuel from the Bio distributor. Our customers that buy their
fuel from the non Bio retailer have had no issues.

This, along with the manufacturers statements of warranty component
exceptions, leaves a bit of concern in my mind.

I have no plans to study diesel fuel technology, I am certainly not
qualified to draw any conclusions in that area.

More power to you that are interested in researching Bio. Hopefully
you will find an explanation and a working solution.

No arguments here!

;~}

Jay Darst
A car salesman, not a petro engineer
85Pt40
Spfld, IL

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Al" wrote:
>
> Jay,
> I participate in two other biodiesel forums and I have
requested
> some backup help from these groups. I have been involved in the
> biodiesel movement for about 3 years. Started making fuel about a
> year ago after I did 2 years of research to make sure I knew what
I
> was getting into. In the next day or two, I should have some more
> information hopefully from them since I am no chemistry expert.
> These groups in case someone else is interested in learning about
> biodiesel is: biodiesel and biodieselbasics.
>
> In addition, a website to learn about it is:
> http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/
>
> Here is a person that has alot of expertise in the biodiesel
> community. She travels over the US training people how to make
ASTM
> quality fuel at the home level.
> http://girlmark.com/
>
> Here is the caption I put to the above groups looking for more
> information: "I need some help clarifying my position that bio-
> diesel is a solvent and cleans out the fuel system plus adds more
> lubrication to the fuel system than diesel. Please read over the
> complete message and give me some thoughts so I can summarize to
the
> Wanderlodge group.
> Or if you like, please jion the group and chime in. More knowledge
> is needed.
> Al Johnson
> Mandeville, Louisiana"
>
> I am not trying to be compative, just trying to give the facts as
I
> know it. Plus like you said, if this alternative fuel were to
catch
> on, what a spur to our economy especially the farming
communities.
> Not to mention, the cleaner air we breath. Please take some time
to
> look over the above information and draw your own conclusion.
>
> Al Johnson
> '96 BMC B20
> '93 Dodge B100
> '03 Dodge D100
> Mandeville, Louisiana
> Currently in Chongqing, China till end of month
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Darst"
> wrote:
> >
> > Al,
> >
> > The Diesels trucks we are having troubles with have less than
> 10,000
> > miles on them. 2 of them had 4,000 miles on them when we changed
> the
> > filters under warranty for a 2nd time.
> >
> > The trucks symptoms were simply no power. Changed the fuel
filter
> > and off they go again.
> >
> > We have been cutting open the filters lately, the last 5 or 6
have
> > had a brownish slime coating the element.
> >
> > I know for a fact that the 2 trucks mentioned were ordered by
the
> > customers, built promptly by GM, delivered to customers within a
> day
> > or 2 of their arrival and been driven daily since using 11% Bio-
> > Diesel.
> >
> > My service team is in contact with GM techline working on a
> > solution. Gm techline has informed us that they will void the
fuel
> > system warranty on any vehicle that has more than a 5% biodiesel
> > mixture in its fuel system.
> >
> > The DaimlerChrysler folks have sent us a bulletin that indicates
> > that any fuel above 5% Bio has caused the high pressure
injection
> > pumps to fail due to lack of lubrication to the fuel pump. They
> too,
> > are voiding the pump warranty on anything over 5%.
> >
> > We are in the farmimg belt, where they make 70bu/acre soybeans
and
> > 225bu/acre corn, my store is in a big farming community. I sure
> > would rather see us burning 100% Bio, certainly would make my
> buyers
> > buy more!
> >
> > If there is a petroleum engineer on this forum who can provide
us
> > the answer, we certainly are listening.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Jay Darst
> > HPR Automotive Superstore
> > Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep-Buick-Pontiac-GMC
> > Sullivan, IL
> > Service Director Bob Freeman
> > 217-728-4366 voice phone
> >
> > 85PT40 6V92 burning 11% BioDiesel and still changing Racor fuel
> > filters at every oil change for 3 years and 40,000 miles.
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Al" wrote:
> > >
> > > Jay,
> > > Actually, biodiesel is a very good solvent. So it's not
> the
> > > fuel that is dirty. Basically, biodiesel is cleaning out
years
> of
> > > petro build-up. If you don't believe me, take a very dirty
> engine
> > > and put diesel on it and let it sit for 5 minutes and rinse.
> > > Nothing comes off the engine. Put the biodiesel on it and
rinse
> > and
> > > it will clean engine better than any off the shelf engine
> > cleaner.
> > > Plus biodiesel is derived from plants so it is a renewable
> > resourse
> > > unlike the petro we by from our friends in the middle east now
> > over
> > > $75 a barrel. Generally after a couple of tanks, your system
> will
> > > be cleaned out and the freq. filter changes will go away.
> > >
> > > Al Johnson
> > > 96 BMC
> > > Mandeville, Louisiana
> > > Currently in Chongqing, China.
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Darst"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Guy,
> > > > I have not been exposed to the B20 blend of Bio diesel.
> > > >
> > > > But would like to make a comment here...
> > > >
> > > > The local distributor(in Sullivan,IL) only sells the 11% bio-
> > blend.
> > > >
> > > > With the late model GMC Duramax Diesels, we have found
> > consistency
> > > > in the need to replace the fuel filter every 2,000 miles
when
> > > using
> > > > this 11% Bio-Diesel.
> > > >
> > > > In the Cummins, no problems such as this.
> > > >
> > > > We have a GMC customer who has replaced the OEM factory
filter
> > > with
> > > > a Racor, don't know which micron filter element he is
using...
> > > >
> > > > Seems that the 11% Bio-Diesel has a thicker viscosity making
> it
> > > > harder to filter the crap out prior to selling it to the
> > retailers.
> > > >
> > > > I buy most of my fuel from this place, I get 6.4mpg with it.
> > Used
> > > to
> > > > get 5.5 to 6.0 with Flying J fuel, but its about the same
now.
> > The
> > > > real point here is, my Racor element is covered with a black
> > slime
> > > > when the filter is changed every 5,000 miles, when the DD
oil
> &
> > > > filter change is performed.
> > > >
> > > > I use Lucas fuel treatment at the rate of 1 gallon per 400
> > > gallons
> > > > of diesel, should be sufficient to prevent algae/plant
growth
> in
> > > my
> > > > fuel.
> > > >
> > > > Bottom line here, Bio-Diesel is not as clean as fossil fuel.
> > > >
> > > > My brother Dan has mentioned that the powers that be are
> > changing
> > > > the diesel fuel chemical mix in September, causing a very
> minor
> > > > reduction in the cetane(like Octane is to gasoline).
> > > >
> > > > Diesel fuel, seems like a moving target right now ...;~}
> > > >
> > > > Later
> > > > Jay Darst
> > > > 85PT40
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "guysmalley"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Has anybody actually tried B20 bio diesel blend?
> > > > >
> > > > >
http://www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodiesel...lingsites/
> > > > >
> > > > > guy smalley
> > > > > 86 pt 40
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[Al]

Hi Jay,
Looks like I am getting feedback from the biodiesel and
biodieselbasics forums and several people think this is an algea
buildup which will clog filters. If your customer comes back, I
would suggest you treat his tank with an algea cleaner. As you
probably know, if he has algea in the tank, changing the filter is a
temporary solution till his filter collects enough algea to clog the
filter again. He should also report to the fueling station so that
can treat their tank.

Al & Kathy Johnson
Mandeville, Louisiana
'96 BMC B20
'93 Dodge Diesel B100
'03 Dodge Diesel B100
Currently in Chongqing, China heading to Hong Kong


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Darst"
wrote:
>
> Al,
>
> I really am NOT taking a position here. I have listed my
experiences
> with Bio-diesel.
>
> We have discovered a consistency among our customers that have
been
> buying fuel from the Bio distributor. Our customers that buy their
> fuel from the non Bio retailer have had no issues.
>
> This, along with the manufacturers statements of warranty
component
> exceptions, leaves a bit of concern in my mind.
>
> I have no plans to study diesel fuel technology, I am certainly
not
> qualified to draw any conclusions in that area.
>
> More power to you that are interested in researching Bio.
Hopefully
> you will find an explanation and a working solution.
>
> No arguments here!
>
> ;~}
>
> Jay Darst
> A car salesman, not a petro engineer
> 85Pt40
> Spfld, IL
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Al" wrote:
> >
> > Jay,
> > I participate in two other biodiesel forums and I have
> requested
> > some backup help from these groups. I have been involved in the
> > biodiesel movement for about 3 years. Started making fuel about
a
> > year ago after I did 2 years of research to make sure I knew
what
> I
> > was getting into. In the next day or two, I should have some
more
> > information hopefully from them since I am no chemistry expert.
> > These groups in case someone else is interested in learning
about
> > biodiesel is: biodiesel and biodieselbasics.
> >
> > In addition, a website to learn about it is:
> > http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/
> >
> > Here is a person that has alot of expertise in the biodiesel
> > community. She travels over the US training people how to make
> ASTM
> > quality fuel at the home level.
> > http://girlmark.com/
> >
> > Here is the caption I put to the above groups looking for more
> > information: "I need some help clarifying my position that bio-
> > diesel is a solvent and cleans out the fuel system plus adds
more
> > lubrication to the fuel system than diesel. Please read over
the
> > complete message and give me some thoughts so I can summarize to
> the
> > Wanderlodge group.
> > Or if you like, please jion the group and chime in. More
knowledge
> > is needed.
> > Al Johnson
> > Mandeville, Louisiana"
> >
> > I am not trying to be compative, just trying to give the facts
as
> I
> > know it. Plus like you said, if this alternative fuel were to
> catch
> > on, what a spur to our economy especially the farming
> communities.
> > Not to mention, the cleaner air we breath. Please take some
time
> to
> > look over the above information and draw your own conclusion.
> >
> > Al Johnson
> > '96 BMC B20
> > '93 Dodge B100
> > '03 Dodge D100
> > Mandeville, Louisiana
> > Currently in Chongqing, China till end of month
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Darst"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Al,
> > >
> > > The Diesels trucks we are having troubles with have less than
> > 10,000
> > > miles on them. 2 of them had 4,000 miles on them when we
changed
> > the
> > > filters under warranty for a 2nd time.
> > >
> > > The trucks symptoms were simply no power. Changed the fuel
> filter
> > > and off they go again.
> > >
> > > We have been cutting open the filters lately, the last 5 or 6
> have
> > > had a brownish slime coating the element.
> > >
> > > I know for a fact that the 2 trucks mentioned were ordered by
> the
> > > customers, built promptly by GM, delivered to customers within
a
> > day
> > > or 2 of their arrival and been driven daily since using 11%
Bio-
> > > Diesel.
> > >
> > > My service team is in contact with GM techline working on a
> > > solution. Gm techline has informed us that they will void the
> fuel
> > > system warranty on any vehicle that has more than a 5%
biodiesel
> > > mixture in its fuel system.
> > >
> > > The DaimlerChrysler folks have sent us a bulletin that
indicates
> > > that any fuel above 5% Bio has caused the high pressure
> injection
> > > pumps to fail due to lack of lubrication to the fuel pump.
They
> > too,
> > > are voiding the pump warranty on anything over 5%.
> > >
> > > We are in the farmimg belt, where they make 70bu/acre soybeans
> and
> > > 225bu/acre corn, my store is in a big farming community. I
sure
> > > would rather see us burning 100% Bio, certainly would make my
> > buyers
> > > buy more!
> > >
> > > If there is a petroleum engineer on this forum who can provide
> us
> > > the answer, we certainly are listening.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Jay Darst
> > > HPR Automotive Superstore
> > > Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep-Buick-Pontiac-GMC
> > > Sullivan, IL
> > > Service Director Bob Freeman
> > > 217-728-4366 voice phone
> > >
> > > 85PT40 6V92 burning 11% BioDiesel and still changing Racor
fuel
> > > filters at every oil change for 3 years and 40,000 miles.
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Al" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Jay,
> > > > Actually, biodiesel is a very good solvent. So it's
not
> > the
> > > > fuel that is dirty. Basically, biodiesel is cleaning out
> years
> > of
> > > > petro build-up. If you don't believe me, take a very dirty
> > engine
> > > > and put diesel on it and let it sit for 5 minutes and
rinse.
> > > > Nothing comes off the engine. Put the biodiesel on it and
> rinse
> > > and
> > > > it will clean engine better than any off the shelf engine
> > > cleaner.
> > > > Plus biodiesel is derived from plants so it is a renewable
> > > resourse
> > > > unlike the petro we by from our friends in the middle east
now
> > > over
> > > > $75 a barrel. Generally after a couple of tanks, your
system
> > will
> > > > be cleaned out and the freq. filter changes will go away.
> > > >
> > > > Al Johnson
> > > > 96 BMC
> > > > Mandeville, Louisiana
> > > > Currently in Chongqing, China.
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Darst"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Guy,
> > > > > I have not been exposed to the B20 blend of Bio diesel.
> > > > >
> > > > > But would like to make a comment here...
> > > > >
> > > > > The local distributor(in Sullivan,IL) only sells the 11%
bio-
> > > blend.
> > > > >
> > > > > With the late model GMC Duramax Diesels, we have found
> > > consistency
> > > > > in the need to replace the fuel filter every 2,000 miles
> when
> > > > using
> > > > > this 11% Bio-Diesel.
> > > > >
> > > > > In the Cummins, no problems such as this.
> > > > >
> > > > > We have a GMC customer who has replaced the OEM factory
> filter
> > > > with
> > > > > a Racor, don't know which micron filter element he is
> using...
> > > > >
> > > > > Seems that the 11% Bio-Diesel has a thicker viscosity
making
> > it
> > > > > harder to filter the crap out prior to selling it to the
> > > retailers.
> > > > >
> > > > > I buy most of my fuel from this place, I get 6.4mpg with
it.
> > > Used
> > > > to
> > > > > get 5.5 to 6.0 with Flying J fuel, but its about the same
> now.
> > > The
> > > > > real point here is, my Racor element is covered with a
black
> > > slime
> > > > > when the filter is changed every 5,000 miles, when the DD
> oil
> > &
> > > > > filter change is performed.
> > > > >
> > > > > I use Lucas fuel treatment at the rate of 1 gallon per
400
> > > > gallons
> > > > > of diesel, should be sufficient to prevent algae/plant
> growth
> > in
> > > > my
> > > > > fuel.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bottom line here, Bio-Diesel is not as clean as fossil
fuel.
> > > > >
> > > > > My brother Dan has mentioned that the powers that be are
> > > changing
> > > > > the diesel fuel chemical mix in September, causing a very
> > minor
> > > > > reduction in the cetane(like Octane is to gasoline).
> > > > >
> > > > > Diesel fuel, seems like a moving target right now ...;~}
> > > > >
> > > > > Later
> > > > > Jay Darst
> > > > > 85PT40
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "guysmalley"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Has anybody actually tried B20 bio diesel blend?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> http://www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodiesel...lingsites/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > guy smalley
> > > > > > 86 pt 40
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

[Jay Darst]

Al,

Maybe the station is growing algae. They sell a heck of a volume of
fuel to be growing algae. They provide fuel to a big trucking
company there in town.

I really don't think its algae. They've been selling 5% Bio for a
long time. Not sure exactly how long they've been providing 11%.

If they've been selling 5% Bio, and they turn their stock very
quickly, shouldn't have algae problems.

in talking with the owner, he indicated that the fuel is of a
thicker viscosity and that it is difficult to remove the impurities.

Again, I don't know shit about it.

Being a franchised dealer, we follow the manufacturers bulletins. If
they say you will void your warranty, they won't pay me to fix your
truck's fuel system when its been burning over 5% Bio.

With that, i am leaving this discussion to the experts.

Thanks
Jay Darst





--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Al" wrote:
>
> Hi Jay,
> Looks like I am getting feedback from the biodiesel and
> biodieselbasics forums and several people think this is an algea
> buildup which will clog filters. If your customer comes back, I
> would suggest you treat his tank with an algea cleaner. As you
> probably know, if he has algea in the tank, changing the filter is
a
> temporary solution till his filter collects enough algea to clog
the
> filter again. He should also report to the fueling station so
that
> can treat their tank.
>
> Al & Kathy Johnson
> Mandeville, Louisiana
> '96 BMC B20
> '93 Dodge Diesel B100
> '03 Dodge Diesel B100
> Currently in Chongqing, China heading to Hong Kong
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Darst"
> wrote:
> >
> > Al,
> >
> > I really am NOT taking a position here. I have listed my
> experiences
> > with Bio-diesel.
> >
> > We have discovered a consistency among our customers that have
> been
> > buying fuel from the Bio distributor. Our customers that buy
their
> > fuel from the non Bio retailer have had no issues.
> >
> > This, along with the manufacturers statements of warranty
> component
> > exceptions, leaves a bit of concern in my mind.
> >
> > I have no plans to study diesel fuel technology, I am certainly
> not
> > qualified to draw any conclusions in that area.
> >
> > More power to you that are interested in researching Bio.
> Hopefully
> > you will find an explanation and a working solution.
> >
> > No arguments here!
> >
> > ;~}
> >
> > Jay Darst
> > A car salesman, not a petro engineer
> > 85Pt40
> > Spfld, IL
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Al" wrote:
> > >
> > > Jay,
> > > I participate in two other biodiesel forums and I have
> > requested
> > > some backup help from these groups. I have been involved in
the
> > > biodiesel movement for about 3 years. Started making fuel
about
> a
> > > year ago after I did 2 years of research to make sure I knew
> what
> > I
> > > was getting into. In the next day or two, I should have some
> more
> > > information hopefully from them since I am no chemistry
expert.
> > > These groups in case someone else is interested in learning
> about
> > > biodiesel is: biodiesel and biodieselbasics.
> > >
> > > In addition, a website to learn about it is:
> > > http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/
> > >
> > > Here is a person that has alot of expertise in the biodiesel
> > > community. She travels over the US training people how to
make
> > ASTM
> > > quality fuel at the home level.
> > > http://girlmark.com/
> > >
> > > Here is the caption I put to the above groups looking for more
> > > information: "I need some help clarifying my position that
bio-
> > > diesel is a solvent and cleans out the fuel system plus adds
> more
> > > lubrication to the fuel system than diesel. Please read over
> the
> > > complete message and give me some thoughts so I can summarize
to
> > the
> > > Wanderlodge group.
> > > Or if you like, please jion the group and chime in. More
> knowledge
> > > is needed.
> > > Al Johnson
> > > Mandeville, Louisiana"
> > >
> > > I am not trying to be compative, just trying to give the facts
> as
> > I
> > > know it. Plus like you said, if this alternative fuel were to
> > catch
> > > on, what a spur to our economy especially the farming
> > communities.
> > > Not to mention, the cleaner air we breath. Please take some
> time
> > to
> > > look over the above information and draw your own conclusion.
> > >
> > > Al Johnson
> > > '96 BMC B20
> > > '93 Dodge B100
> > > '03 Dodge D100
> > > Mandeville, Louisiana
> > > Currently in Chongqing, China till end of month
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Darst"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Al,
> > > >
> > > > The Diesels trucks we are having troubles with have less
than
> > > 10,000
> > > > miles on them. 2 of them had 4,000 miles on them when we
> changed
> > > the
> > > > filters under warranty for a 2nd time.
> > > >
> > > > The trucks symptoms were simply no power. Changed the fuel
> > filter
> > > > and off they go again.
> > > >
> > > > We have been cutting open the filters lately, the last 5 or
6
> > have
> > > > had a brownish slime coating the element.
> > > >
> > > > I know for a fact that the 2 trucks mentioned were ordered
by
> > the
> > > > customers, built promptly by GM, delivered to customers
within
> a
> > > day
> > > > or 2 of their arrival and been driven daily since using 11%
> Bio-
> > > > Diesel.
> > > >
> > > > My service team is in contact with GM techline working on a
> > > > solution. Gm techline has informed us that they will void
the
> > fuel
> > > > system warranty on any vehicle that has more than a 5%
> biodiesel
> > > > mixture in its fuel system.
> > > >
> > > > The DaimlerChrysler folks have sent us a bulletin that
> indicates
> > > > that any fuel above 5% Bio has caused the high pressure
> > injection
> > > > pumps to fail due to lack of lubrication to the fuel pump.
> They
> > > too,
> > > > are voiding the pump warranty on anything over 5%.
> > > >
> > > > We are in the farmimg belt, where they make 70bu/acre
soybeans
> > and
> > > > 225bu/acre corn, my store is in a big farming community. I
> sure
> > > > would rather see us burning 100% Bio, certainly would make
my
> > > buyers
> > > > buy more!
> > > >
> > > > If there is a petroleum engineer on this forum who can
provide
> > us
> > > > the answer, we certainly are listening.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Jay Darst
> > > > HPR Automotive Superstore
> > > > Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep-Buick-Pontiac-GMC
> > > > Sullivan, IL
> > > > Service Director Bob Freeman
> > > > 217-728-4366 voice phone
> > > >
> > > > 85PT40 6V92 burning 11% BioDiesel and still changing Racor
> fuel
> > > > filters at every oil change for 3 years and 40,000 miles.
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Al" wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Jay,
> > > > > Actually, biodiesel is a very good solvent. So it's
> not
> > > the
> > > > > fuel that is dirty. Basically, biodiesel is cleaning out
> > years
> > > of
> > > > > petro build-up. If you don't believe me, take a very
dirty
> > > engine
> > > > > and put diesel on it and let it sit for 5 minutes and
> rinse.
> > > > > Nothing comes off the engine. Put the biodiesel on it and
> > rinse
> > > > and
> > > > > it will clean engine better than any off the shelf engine
> > > > cleaner.
> > > > > Plus biodiesel is derived from plants so it is a renewable
> > > > resourse
> > > > > unlike the petro we by from our friends in the middle east
> now
> > > > over
> > > > > $75 a barrel. Generally after a couple of tanks, your
> system
> > > will
> > > > > be cleaned out and the freq. filter changes will go away.
> > > > >
> > > > > Al Johnson
> > > > > 96 BMC
> > > > > Mandeville, Louisiana
> > > > > Currently in Chongqing, China.
> > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Darst"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Guy,
> > > > > > I have not been exposed to the B20 blend of Bio diesel.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But would like to make a comment here...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The local distributor(in Sullivan,IL) only sells the 11%
> bio-
> > > > blend.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With the late model GMC Duramax Diesels, we have found
> > > > consistency
> > > > > > in the need to replace the fuel filter every 2,000 miles
> > when
> > > > > using
> > > > > > this 11% Bio-Diesel.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In the Cummins, no problems such as this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We have a GMC customer who has replaced the OEM factory
> > filter
> > > > > with
> > > > > > a Racor, don't know which micron filter element he is
> > using...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Seems that the 11% Bio-Diesel has a thicker viscosity
> making
> > > it
> > > > > > harder to filter the crap out prior to selling it to the
> > > > retailers.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I buy most of my fuel from this place, I get 6.4mpg with
> it.
> > > > Used
> > > > > to
> > > > > > get 5.5 to 6.0 with Flying J fuel, but its about the
same
> > now.
> > > > The
> > > > > > real point here is, my Racor element is covered with a
> black
> > > > slime
> > > > > > when the filter is changed every 5,000 miles, when the
DD
> > oil
> > > &
> > > > > > filter change is performed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I use Lucas fuel treatment at the rate of 1 gallon per
> 400
> > > > > gallons
> > > > > > of diesel, should be sufficient to prevent algae/plant
> > growth
> > > in
> > > > > my
> > > > > > fuel.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bottom line here, Bio-Diesel is not as clean as fossil
> fuel.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My brother Dan has mentioned that the powers that be are
> > > > changing
> > > > > > the diesel fuel chemical mix in September, causing a
very
> > > minor
> > > > > > reduction in the cetane(like Octane is to gasoline).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Diesel fuel, seems like a moving target right now ...;~}
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Later
> > > > > > Jay Darst
> > > > > > 85PT40
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "guysmalley"
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Has anybody actually tried B20 bio diesel blend?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > http://www.biodiesel.org/buyingbiodiesel...lingsites/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > guy smalley
> > > > > > > 86 pt 40
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>