What To Do: To Sell Me Your Bird.

[whistles_n_bells]

Speaking of "Mr. Oliver's," his (Paul's) website has not been updated
for quite some time. I've also noticed that his RV inventory is shared
with automobiles - more so than in the past. Is he still in business? I
agree with Pete, the photos that he presents is excellent - even to the
point of minor body blemishes being photographed - seems upfront.

Joe (Pappy) Hagan
St. George, UT
(Wannabe)



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Pete Masterson
wrote:
>
>
> On May 7, 2008, at 12:17 PM, J R wrote:
> > <snip>There is also a 12.5KW Cohler generator,
> > 500 gallon fuel tank, 300 gal fresh water tank and a 300 gal
grayinor body damage
> > water and 200 gal black water tanks. <snip>
> >
> > Is it possible for an 1981 35' brid to have 500 gallon fuel tank,
300
> > gal fresh water, 300 gal gray and 200 gal black??? Where would you
put
> > all them big tanks?
>
> Kohler makes generators... not "Cohler."
>
> The 35' bird was originally equipped with a 12.5 KW generator
> 150 gallon fuel tank
> 98 gallons fresh water
> 60 gallons gray water
> 42 gallons waste water.
> (These figures are from the 1980 listing under "history" at
> <http://www.vintagebirds.com> 1981 didn't have specs listed.)
>
> I'd be inclined to guess that this advertisement was either converted
> from liters (but those don't match up either) or someone is
> completely nuts. Perhaps, there's a tank trailer that comes with the
> coach...
>
> <snip>
>
> I agree completely with your observations to sellers. I purchased my
> 'bird from Mr. Olivers (a dealer near Dallas-Ft. Worth, TX) via an
> eBay auction. If it weren't for a plethora of photos, I would not
> have been as comfortable with the process as I was. (I also was able
> to talk with the former owner...)
>
> Although I'm now out of the market, I do tend to look at what's being
> offered from time to time -- and I continue to be amazed at people
> who post 3 photos of the out side and 2 photos of the interior and
> seem to think that's enough. Indeed, in some cases, I've seen a coach
> on sale for 2 to 3 years --- and the photos are never updated.
> (Including one that has a wet towel hanging on the shower door -- how
> nice.)
>
> Mr. Oliver does it right -- and it's educational to visit his web
> site and view how he has photographed the RVs he has for sale.
>
> Outside: front, back, and both sides with compartment doors open and
> doors closed.
> Close up of each compartment
> Close up of generator (extended)
> Close up of several of the tires
> Entrance with door open
>
> Inside: multiple photos of the interior and each part of it from at
> least 2 directions
> close up of dash including shots so you can read the mileage and
> hours on the instruments
> Multiple close ups in bath, kitchen area, and bedroom. Closets both
> closed and open.
>
> My coach had more than 40 photos -- and I had a good sense of what I
> would see when I made my on-the-ground inspection. There were no
> unpleasant surprises and the vehicle was exactly as represented.
>
> My only other comment regards bus conversions. I was first interested
> in a bus conversion, but switched to focusing on the Wanderlodge
> after I realized that there is almost no support for buses. Each
> conversion is a one-off that may be professionally done or done by a
> "joe blow" who has no idea how to properly engineer the workings of
> the house components. If you have a problem with plumbing or some
> other component, there's no one else who has exactly the same thing.
> The support on this (and the other) Wanderlodge list is more valuable
> than you can imagine. That is what ultimately convinced me that a bus
> conversion was more of a crap shoot that I'd care to undertake. (YMMV)
>
> Pete Masterson
> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> El Sobrante CA
> aeonix1@...
>

[Leroy Eckert]

Yea, I guess it did sound a little negative but sometimes reality is. Consider todays positive dose of reality.
If you live a long, long time you get to attend many funerals. If not, you only attend one.

Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
Dahlonega, GA
Royale Conversion

bubblerboy64 wrote:

Remember the movie "Mad Max" I think that was the name, one of Mel
Gibsons first. Bluebirds would work pretty well, with some armer
plate and gun ports. They might go way up in price :-) So look at
the
sunny side of this. :-)

We'll get thru this if we use our talents and don't panic.

John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC

>
> I agree with you for sure. At $200 a barrel oil selling a BB will
be the least of our concerns.
>
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
> Dahlonega, GA
> Royale Conversion
>
> birdshill123 ...> wrote:
Good post: Add to your list of bad seller ideas: POOR PHOTOGRAPHY. A
> decent digital camera can be had for under $150. Why do some
sellers
> insist on using a Brownie Hawkeye with a candle for a flash? Some
on
> this site might remember last year when the "preacher" was selling
an
> older PT40. His pictures were awesome and he got every one's
attention.
> Another faux pas: Price it with some intelligence. $80,000 plus
for
a
> silver edition FC is unrealistic. I own one and know it could
never
> draw anything even close! Those who are selling units today will
be
> sorry if they wait. I would love to revisit BB pricing this fall.
I
> think everybody will be surprised. This is a real down market, not
a
> blip. Jeff Rubin, a well respected Canadian economist, is calling
for
> $150 oil this year and $200 by 2012. I know that there are just as
many
> economists who feel otherwise but just the fact that many believe
this
> is scary. $150 oil would make for $5.00 plus diesel. How many BB's
will
> be sold with diesel at this level?
>
> Bruce
> 1988 FC35
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend,
newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
Try it now.
>

---

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR...o8Wcj9tAcJ ] Try it now.[/url]

[bubblerboy64]

Leroy, I think you need a group hug :-)

I spent last evening replacing the rubber feet under the generator in
my efforts to reduce vibration and sound. Another couple hours and
that project will be put to bed.

I figure at worst if I can't buy fuel I'll always have somethin to
do. Maybe I'll have them bury me in it (speaking happy thoughts)take
a pretty big piece of real estate and one big back hoe but I bet it
would be a well attended service.

But, before I take the Big Nap in the Big Napper I gotta get me one
of them thar musical horns. Wouldn't that be "cool" playin furneral
music over the air horn as they lower her down. People would talk
about that forever.

Hang in there Leroy.

John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC The BIG napper.



>
> Yea, I guess it did sound a little negative but sometimes reality
is. Consider todays positive dose of reality.
> If you live a long, long time you get to attend many funerals. If
not, you only attend one.
>
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
> Dahlonega, GA
> Royale Conversion
>
> bubblerboy64 wrote:
Remember the movie "Mad Max" I think that was the name, one of Mel
> Gibsons first. Bluebirds would work pretty well, with some armer
> plate and gun ports. They might go way up in price :-) So look
at
> the sunny side of this. :-)
>
> We'll get thru this if we use our talents and don't panic.
>
> John Heckman
> central Pa
> 1973 FC
>
> >
> > I agree with you for sure. At $200 a barrel oil selling a BB
will
> be the least of our concerns.
> >
> > Leroy Eckert
> > 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
> > Dahlonega, GA
> > Royale Conversion
> >
> > birdshill123 wrote:
> Good post: Add to your list of bad seller ideas: POOR PHOTOGRAPHY.
A
> > decent digital camera can be had for under $150. Why do some
> sellers
> > insist on using a Brownie Hawkeye with a candle for a flash?
Some
> on
> > this site might remember last year when the "preacher" was
selling
> an
> > older PT40. His pictures were awesome and he got every one's
> attention.
> > Another faux pas: Price it with some intelligence. $80,000 plus
> for a
> > silver edition FC is unrealistic. I own one and know it could
> never
> > draw anything even close! Those who are selling units today
will
> be
> > sorry if they wait. I would love to revisit BB pricing this
fall.
> I
> > think everybody will be surprised. This is a real down market,
not
> a
> > blip. Jeff Rubin, a well respected Canadian economist, is
calling
> for
> > $150 oil this year and $200 by 2012. I know that there are just
as
> many
> > economists who feel otherwise but just the fact that many
believe
> this
> > is scary. $150 oil would make for $5.00 plus diesel. How many
BB's
> will
> > be sold with diesel at this level?
> >
> > Bruce
> > 1988 FC35
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!
Mobile.
> Try it now.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
Try it now.
>

[Leroy Eckert]

I am with you partner. I am good, just reality based.

Where did you get the mounts for the generator? And how did it do? I re-insulated my genny compartment with the stuff from Stephen and now there is virtually no noise in the coach.
Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
Dahlonega, GA
Royale Conversion

bubblerboy64 wrote:

Leroy, I think you need a group hug :-)

I spent last evening replacing the rubber feet under the generator in
my efforts to reduce vibration and sound. Another couple
hours and
that project will be put to bed.

I figure at worst if I can't buy fuel I'll always have somethin to
do. Maybe I'll have them bury me in it (speaking happy thoughts)take
a pretty big piece of real estate and one big back hoe but I bet it
would be a well attended service.

But, before I take the Big Nap in the Big Napper I gotta get me one
of them thar musical horns. Wouldn't that be "cool" playin furneral
music over the air horn as they lower her down. People would talk
about that forever.

Hang in there Leroy.

John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC The BIG napper.

>
> Yea, I guess it did sound a little negative but sometimes reality
is. Consider todays positive dose of reality.
> If you live a long, long time you get to attend many funerals. If
not, you only attend one.
>
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors

> Dahlonega, GA
> Royale Conversion
>
> bubblerboy64 wrote:
Remember the movie "Mad Max" I think that was the name, one of Mel
> Gibsons first. Bluebirds would work pretty well, with some armer
> plate and gun ports. They might go way up in price :-) So look
at
> the sunny side of this. :-)
>
> We'll get thru this if we use our talents and don't panic.
>
> John Heckman
> central Pa
> 1973 FC
>
> >
> > I agree with you for sure. At $200 a barrel oil selling a BB
will
> be the least of our concerns.
> >
> > Leroy Eckert
> > 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
> > Dahlonega, GA
> > Royale Conversion
> >
> > birdshill123 > wrote:
> Good
post: Add to your list of bad seller ideas: POOR PHOTOGRAPHY.
A
> > decent digital camera can be had for under $150. Why do some
> sellers
> > insist on using a Brownie Hawkeye with a candle for a flash?
Some
> on
> > this site might remember last year when the "preacher" was
selling
> an
> > older PT40. His pictures were awesome and he got every one's
> attention.
> > Another faux pas: Price it with some intelligence. $80,000 plus
> for a
> > silver edition FC is unrealistic. I own one and know it could
> never
> > draw anything even close! Those who are selling units today
will
> be
> > sorry if they wait. I would love to revisit BB pricing this
fall.
> I
> > think everybody will be surprised. This is a real down market,
not
> a
> > blip. Jeff Rubin, a well respected Canadian economist, is
calling
> for
> > $150 oil this year and $200 by 2012. I know that there are just
as
> many
> > economists who feel otherwise but just the fact that many
believe
> this
> > is scary. $150 oil would make for $5.00 plus diesel. How many
BB's
> will
> > be sold with diesel at this level?
> >
> > Bruce
> > 1988 FC35
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!
Mobile.
> Try it now.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
Try it now.
>

---

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR...o8Wcj9tAcJ ] Try it now.[/url]

[brad barton]

Paul's slowing down his end of the business, has a salesman who's fronting some of his own coaches and letting Ryan take over any service he wants. Not exactly retired but stepping away from it a little. He told me last week he'll still keep a few coaches in play but not his normal compliment of 12. The companion business he's hosting is up on a separate website but you can link to it from Mr. Oliver's.

BradBarton00LXiDFW bbartonwx@...

---

Stay in touch when you're away with Windows Live Messenger. IM anytime you're online.

[bubblerboy64]

Leroy, Shane directed me to a local generator repair shop who got
the stuff for me. (Shane seems to know just about everything. If I
can't find it or fix it Shane always comes thru and locates or helps
me some way) I don't have all the insulation in yet but it but I did
fire up the ole girl just to see about the vibration and that helped
a lot. My entrance door is right next to the generator compartment
and I still have just a little vibration coming from the door area.
One is the screen in the window of the door which I can fix and the
other seems to be the door against the door frame which I don't know
if I can resolve (any one got any idea'ers)

The insulation is from Steve Bartles and is great stuff. I applied a
coating of contact cement to the metal first before attaching the
insulation. (I wear a belt and suspenders) That stuff is on there.
You better mean it when you go to place it. The first piece I worked
with I accidently got it up against the metal before I was ready had
myself a little learning experience. I plan to do the dog house and
such as soon as I get the glue and foam off my fingers.

I am thinking about putting a piece of that stuff on my bald head. It
would save me some injury but I am worried that I might not be able
to hear myself think, humm maybe that would be good....
John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC


>
> I am with you partner. I am good, just reality based.
>
> Where did you get the mounts for the generator? And how did it do?
I re-insulated my genny compartment with the stuff from Stephen and
now there is virtually no noise in the coach.
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
> Dahlonega, GA
> Royale Conversion
>
> bubblerboy64 wrote:
> Leroy, I think you need a group hug :-)
>
> I spent last evening replacing the rubber feet under the generator
in
> my efforts to reduce vibration and sound. Another couple hours and
> that project will be put to bed.
>
> I figure at worst if I can't buy fuel I'll always have somethin to
> do. Maybe I'll have them bury me in it (speaking happy thoughts)
take
> a pretty big piece of real estate and one big back hoe but I bet
it
> would be a well attended service.
>
> But, before I take the Big Nap in the Big Napper I gotta get me
one
> of them thar musical horns. Wouldn't that be "cool" playin
furneral
> music over the air horn as they lower her down. People would talk
> about that forever.
>
> Hang in there Leroy.
>
> John Heckman
> central Pa
> 1973 FC The BIG napper.
>
> >
> > Yea, I guess it did sound a little negative but sometimes
reality
> is. Consider todays positive dose of reality.
> > If you live a long, long time you get to attend many funerals.
If
> not, you only attend one.
> >
> > Leroy Eckert
> > 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
> > Dahlonega, GA
> > Royale Conversion
> >
> > bubblerboy64 wrote:
> Remember the movie "Mad Max" I think that was the name, one of Mel
> > Gibsons first. Bluebirds would work pretty well, with some
armer
> > plate and gun ports. They might go way up in price :-) So
look
> at
> > the sunny side of this. :-)
> >
> > We'll get thru this if we use our talents and don't panic.
> >
> > John Heckman
> > central Pa
> > 1973 FC
> >
> > >
> > > I agree with you for sure. At $200 a barrel oil selling a BB
> will
> > be the least of our concerns.
> > >
> > > Leroy Eckert
> > > 1990 WB-40 Smoke N Mirrors
> > > Dahlonega, GA
> > > Royale Conversion
> > >
> > > birdshill123
wrote:
> > Good post: Add to your list of bad seller ideas: POOR
PHOTOGRAPHY.
> A
> > > decent digital camera can be had for under $150. Why do some
> > sellers
> > > insist on using a Brownie Hawkeye with a candle for a flash?
> Some
> > on
> > > this site might remember last year when the "preacher" was
> selling
> > an
> > > older PT40. His pictures were awesome and he got every one's
> > attention.
> > > Another faux pas: Price it with some intelligence. $80,000
plus
> > for a
> > > silver edition FC is unrealistic. I own one and know it
could
> > never
> > > draw anything even close! Those who are selling units today
> will
> > be
> > > sorry if they wait. I would love to revisit BB pricing this
> fall.
> > I
> > > think everybody will be surprised. This is a real down
market,
> not
> > a
> > > blip. Jeff Rubin, a well respected Canadian economist, is
> calling
> > for
> > > $150 oil this year and $200 by 2012. I know that there are
just
> as
> > many
> > > economists who feel otherwise but just the fact that many
> believe
> > this
> > > is scary. $150 oil would make for $5.00 plus diesel. How
many
> BB's
> > will
> > > be sold with diesel at this level?
> > >
> > > Bruce
> > > 1988 FC35
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!
> Mobile.
> > Try it now.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo!
Mobile.
> Try it now.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.
Try it now.
>

[Ryan Wright]

J R,

I couldn't agree more with your comments. I bought my coach last year
and many of the ads were frustrating. As a buyer, I want to see three
things in your ad:

1. Accurate, honest information, and as complete a history as
possible. When you know so little about the coach you can't even get
the capacities right, how can I trust that you have any idea,
whatsoever, about the maintenance history, or any interesting little
problems I might need to be aware of? Simply, I can't. Glaring
screw-ups in the ad tells me you're selling a coach you know nothing
about and I'll pass on that (unless you also happen to know nothing
about the price, to my favor).

2. Lots and lots of GOOD pictures. Sellers, take a tip from Mr.
Oliver's listings: Use a good camera with a wide angle lens and frame
your shots properly to capture the "feel" of being inside the coach.
There are a lot of ads where every picture appears to be a close-up.
Close-ups are necessary but you can't neglect the "broad" shots,
especially of the interior. Also, there can never be too many
pictures. Take at least 50. More is better. I bought my coach on
consignment through Mr. Oliver's basically sight unseen. The pictures
were so well done, it was like actually being there. In fact, I saved
the entire ad: http://www.ryanwright.com/tmp/wanderlodge/. Take a look
at that front page interior shot. That wide angle lens puts the viewer
right in the coach. There was no question on what I was getting into
and when I finally saw it in person, it was already familiar to me. No
surprises whatsoever. Pictures like that sell coaches.

3. A price. Why do people insist on hiding the price? What's the deal
with that, anyway? How do you ever expect to sell anything? When I see
something that doesn't have a price, I move on. Every time. Refusal to
list a price means, "I want way too much money and I'm embarrassed to
admit it." It also puts me in an awkward position of being "that guy"
who bothers you about your item but can't afford it. Interestingly,
the folks who won't list a price are also the ones who don't
appreciate it when your first question is, "How much?" I simply see no
reason to waste my time and yours discussing all the particulars of a
coach I can't afford. The FIRST THING I look at is the price to see if
it's within my budget.

Folks, I've bought and sold an awful lot of vehicles and I always get
top dollar. The above points are a winning strategy.

J R, I'm on the other side of the mountains from you, in the
Tri-Cities. If you ever come through and want to check out a nice '86
PT-40 in person, let me know. It's not for sale, but I'll gladly give
you the tour and chat about these wonderful coaches. Highly suggest
you skip the idea of a bus conversion and go with one of these. Unless
done by a well known professional in the industry, conversions don't
typically hold their value and I'm told they can be difficult to
insure.

-Ryan
'86 PT-40 8V92

[Pete Masterson]

I dunno... looks to me like Mr. Oliver's web site is being kept up-to-date. I note, for example, that the first listing (a country coach) now shows sold. A couple weeks back it wasn't (as best I recall). 

It does seem as if his RV inventory has dwindled, indeed, this is the first time I didn't see a Prevost or two and a 'bird. And, the autos now on his web site seem to be a divergence from his past inventory practices. 

I'd guess that Paul has observed the fuel-price caused downturn in the RV market and is simply adjusting to that reality, until the market improves.

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

On May 7, 2008, at 11:10 PM, whistles_n_bells wrote:

Speaking of "Mr. Oliver's," his (Paul's) website has not been updated

for quite some time. I've also noticed that his RV inventory is shared

with automobiles - more so than in the past. Is he still in business? I

agree with Pete, the photos that he presents is excellent - even to the

point of minor body blemishes being photographed - seems upfront.

<snip>

[Pete Masterson]

Sellers really need to understand how prospective buyers look at ads. Every ad is considered until a reason to reject it is found. So, if I'm looking for (say) a late 80's PT, I'll read the ad until I find some reason to move on. Perhaps I won't like the color, or the unit is priced above what I am willing to pay. Obviously, if it's an FC or a something other than one in the year and price range I have in mind, I'll move on.

It's truly best for advertisers to make it easy for potential buyers to quickly be able to either reject the ad or choose to consider it further. It's a waste of both the buyer's and seller's time to force a potential buyer to call to find out critical elements (year, model, condition, color, price) that they might otherwise have used to reject the listing. Indeed, if these critical factors are not clearly stated in an ad listing, then a large portion of potential buyers will pass over it anyway. Net result is that a seller simply reduces their chance to "well expose" the vehicle they have for sale and are then likely to either not sell it, or they will end up taking a deal at a lower price than might have been the case if they've more properly exposed it to the market.

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

On May 8, 2008, at 10:01 AM, Ryan Wright wrote:

J R,

I couldn't agree more with your comments. I bought my coach last year

and many of the ads were frustrating. As a buyer, I want to see three

things in your ad:

<snip>

[erniecarpet@...]

In a message dated 5/8/2008 8:08:10 A.M. Central Standard Time, jehdds@... writes:

I am thinking about putting a piece of that stuff on my bald head

John, you might get better cell reception~ } O

Ernie Ekberg
83PT40
Livingston, Montana

---

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