RIV Report?

[Lloyd Chaffin]

I can't stand it any more. I have to say something and if you don't
want to read a negative post please disreguard this. It is very very
sad to see what is happening to Bluebird. I wanted a Bird for over 15
years and was finally blessed enough to be able to afford one. Now it
appears to me that the coach side of Bluebird is just about gone. If
you compare past years of the RIV to this one in Branson it looks
like to my wife and I that Bluebird wants it to go away. Wasn't RIV
always done by Bluebird to show some apprication to their customers?
If you attended this RIV can you really say it was nice compared to
past years. The last day of the rally there was "NOTHING" planned and
the club house was locked up most nights. Yes, it is always great to
meet with other Bluebirders and be together but a regular rally
hosted by a coach owner was nicer than this years RIV in our opinion.
No management from CCW bothered to show up but they made sure a coach
was there so you could buy one. They even had a LXI 450 there you can
buy and look at it in your drive way because you're not suppose to
drive it. Sure, I want to buy a 1.1 million dollar coach from a
company that looks like it is going out of business, can't service
their coaches and has no parts. Has anybody besides me spent over 10
thousand dollars taking their coach to Fort Valley to have it worked
on because that is the only place that will touch a Bluebird under
warranty in the USA? Bluebird never once offerd to help me out with
any of my expenses or even offer to buy me lunch while we sat
multiple days at the birds nest. Nobody even wants to be a dealer for
a Bluebird now much less do warranty work. Buddy Greg laughed at me
when I called them. My coach sat at Bleakley one time for 6 weeks
because Macy refused to pay them to work on my coach. I have been
calling all day to get a part and I can't even get anybody to answer
the phone. Glen Rodgers is gone now too like eveybody else. I am not
kidding, every single person I have dealt with at Bluebird since the
purchase of our coach is gone the 2nd time I call them. "I'm sorry,
he no longer works here." How many times have I heard that! Anyway, I
have a bunch of issues about how I have been treated by Bluebird and
haven't ever really said much about it. The thing that bothers me the
most is how multiple service managers and Macy himself have just out
right lied to me more times than I can count. I like my coach but
have resigned myself that I am on my own with no support from CCW.
Sorry for the negativity but this is the first time I have ever said
anything on a forum. I really feel sorry for all the LXI 450 owners
who got a letter saying they couldn't even drive their new dream
coach and all the nightmares they have been through. I didn't have it
that bad. You just can't treat people like Macy has treated his
customers and expect them not to have a very sour taste in their
mouth about Bluebird. If GM sent you a letter saying they were going
to have to move the engine on your brand new Suburban to the rear
because the front end was over loaded and not to drive it, would you
want your money back? And don't tell me that CCW didn't know about
these problems when they bought the company. I'm sorry I missed
Bluebird during the 80's and the 90's! I guess most good things come
to an end sooner or later.

Lloyd Chaffin
Haslet Texas
2004 M380

[birdshill123]

In all fairness CCW is really not responsible for that 450LXI debacle.
They are simply doing the work for BB ( now school bus division). I
feel for anyone who owns of those. I am amazed that there have not been
any lawsuits. This certainly has not helped BB's reputation. I was at
the FMCA in Mpls. this summer and was emabarassed at the display. Some
used units and a bunch of dealer sales people. The new unit did show up
but was sort of an anti climax. BTW: Those dealers do not sell BB
anymore!!! Who will pick up the Motorhome division when CCW decides to
sell out??


Bruce
1988 FC35

[Ross]

Hi,
You're right that CCW is really not completely responsible. Hindsite-
A 20,000 lbs front axle would have corrected the 450 LXi problems
without moving the generator and doing other modifications . It would
also have given the new Wanderlodge a great CCC and allowed the gennie
to stay up front on a slide-out.(no slide out on the modifications or
in the new coach ). BB should have picked up that tab (CCW should have
pushed that and helped)

see
http://nhthqnwws112.odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ac...s/Public/R
ecalls/2007/V/RCDNN-07V586-7376.pdf


see defect investigation
http://nhthqnwws112.odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ac...s/Public/P
ursuits/2008/RQ/INRL-RQ08004-30163P.pdf


Ironic. -- Blue Bird killing the Wanderlodge
Who says no lawsuitSSS ???

Ross
2006 LXi


> In all fairness CCW is really not responsible for that 450LXI
debacle.
> They are simply doing the work for BB ( now school bus division). I
> feel for anyone who owns of those. I am amazed that there have not
been
> any lawsuits. This certainly has not helped BB's reputation. I was
at
> the FMCA in Mpls. this summer and was emabarassed at the display.
Some
> used units and a bunch of dealer sales people. The new unit did show
up
> but was sort of an anti climax. BTW: Those dealers do not sell BB
> anymore!!! Who will pick up the Motorhome division when CCW decides
to
> sell out??
>
>
> Bruce
> 1988 FC35
>

[Rob Robinson]

Great post John and if I might add that I believethe various Wanderlodge Forums could keep many existing birds running for years with or without factory support.Time after time I have seenmembersfind replacement partsor come up with a fix without factory support. In truth factory support has lessened over the years with various ownership changes, key personnel losses etc etc. Without a factory youmay not get a specific plastic googaw trim piece but the the hardcore necessary parts of a bird have never stymied the persistent BB membership. They will search to the ends of the earth for the right 'wangflanger valve'. Having said this I must add that without a BB factory individuals who are not mechanically inclined, or wish not to indulge, would be left at a disadvantage. Lack of support for these folks would reduce prospective buyers. The loss of a BB factory andno new BB product would mean the end of the BB line. Bottom line we need a BB factory and it's support if the brand is to continue but even without one we can keep existing BBs running. Anyone capable of doing a little wrenching shouldn't shy away from a BB with or without a factory.

2008/10/27 <"jvredden@aol.com">

Dear Lloyd,

Most every point you made is valid. CCW has had issues supporting the existing coaches. That said ...they are trying. It's far better than having no one pick up BB.

Not trying to stir up a hornet's nest but......I'm glad you got that off your chest and hope you feel better!

I too was at the Branson RITV. It was nice but, like you stated, it was not like other RITV's. Rick Clayton from BB was there and had tried to organize the event. I asked him why the question answer sessions and technical seminars were not available. He indicated to me that he was not aware that RITV's in the past had offered them. He was in effect offering a rally as he understood rallys to be. I do not think he understood the unique offerings of RITV of the past and the expectations of Bluebirders. Please send him your suggestions at BB. He seemed quite open to what I suggested. Given that he had no concept of past RITV, I think he did ok. It was different and not like other RITVs, but if you went to the Branson RITV expecting to see the same as past RITVs, you might question if you were realistic in your expectations. The RATS organization

(Wanderlodgeownersforum.com) moderated by Randy, John, and Rob is a great source of info on all BB. They have a get together a couple times a year. Very loosely structured organization and that's the way they want to keep it. However, you will not find a kinder, more helpful group of folks. Try them out.

My thought is that CCW needed an east coast facility and BB mfg plantoffered that for them. Theystatethat CCW is #1 inNG conversion of buses. I would think their market position is as good as any.I don't think they are expecting to make money on the new Wanderlodge initially. I think they feel a market continues to exist for highend coaches ( remember, in hard economic times, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer...why am I always on the losing end?)I am glad they are trying to deliver a new product in a market that is not conducive to any new products. Remember just this year Mfg, National, See Ya, and Western RV ( Alpine coach) went out of business.At least, we are in a better position than those coach owners.

I think other Bluebirders need our help and support. I think CCW needs it as well. Your points are well taken...now let's focus on the positive. You have a wonderful coach. You are blessed to be able to have it. Enjoy the process of trying to keep it top notch and run the wheels off of it.

john redden

91 PT-40

---

Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – check it out!

--
Rob, Sue & Merlin Robinson

94 WLWB

[Gregory OConnor]

Dear John, your post sounds like something written by the public
relations department of ccw. I think we should gang up on Macy and
see to it that Lloyd gets some satisfaction or learns that his
expectations are not attainable for what ever reason. if you read
Lloyds post and reread your reply, it sounds like more of the same
excuse rederic he has been getting. People vent to seek action and
assistance,its not always a yoga exersize. Maybe Llyod could post
the promise not granted.

GregoryO'Connor
94ptRomolandCa

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, jvredden@... wrote:
>
> Dear Lloyd,
>
>
> Most every point you made is valid. CCW has had issues supporting
the
> existing coaches. That said ...they are trying. It's far better
than having no
> one pick up BB.
>
>
> Not trying to stir up a hornet's nest but......I'm glad you got
that off
> your chest and hope you feel better!
> I too was at the Branson RITV. It was nice but, like you stated,
it was not
> like other RITV's. Rick Clayton from BB was there and had tried
to organize
> the event. I asked him why the question answer sessions and
technical
> seminars were not available. He indicated to me that he was not
aware that RITV's
> in the past had offered them. He was in effect offering a rally
as he
> understood rallys to be. I do not think he understood the unique
offerings of
> RITV of the past and the expectations of Bluebirders. Please
send him your
> suggestions at BB. He seemed quite open to what I suggested.
Given that he had
> no concept of past RITV, I think he did ok. It was different and
not like
> other RITVs, but if you went to the Branson RITV expecting to see
the same as
> past RITVs, you might question if you were realistic in your
expectations.
> The RATS organization
> (Wanderlodgeownersforum.com) moderated by Randy, John, and Rob is
a great
> source of info on all BB. They have a get together a couple times
a year.
> Very loosely structured organization and that's the way they want
to keep it.
> However, you will not find a kinder, more helpful group of
folks. Try them
> out.
>
>
> My thought is that CCW needed an east coast facility and BB mfg
plant
> offered that for them. They state that CCW is #1 in NG
conversion of buses. I
> would think their market position is as good as any. I don't
think they are
> expecting to make money on the new Wanderlodge initially. I
think they feel a
> market continues to exist for high end coaches ( remember, in
hard economic
> times, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer...why am I
always on the
> losing end?) I am glad they are trying to deliver a new product
in a market
> that is not conducive to any new products. Remember just this
year Mfg,
> National, See Ya, and Western RV ( Alpine coach) went out of
business. At least, we
> are in a better position than those coach owners.
>
> I think other Bluebirders need our help and support. I think CCW
needs it
> as well. Your points are well taken...now let's focus on the
positive. You
> have a wonderful coach. You are blessed to be able to have it.
Enjoy the
> process of trying to keep it top notch and run the wheels off of
it.
>
>
> john redden
> 91 PT-40
> **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your
favorites,
> no registration required and great graphics â€" check it out!
> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x...89022/aol?
redir=
> http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)
>

[Lloyd Chaffin]

John,

I apprciate your response to my post and understand how you feel also
but you also have to understand that 95% of the people on these
bluebird forums have coaches from the 80's and 90's. I have been
watching these forums for over 2 years now but have never posted much
because nobody has ever really said anything about my situation. Do
any of you guys have warranty's on your coaches? You can take your
coach anywhere or try to fix yourself but since I had a warranty I
wanted to use it. I am greatful that CCW was still around so my
warraty was not worthless but I checked into that before I bought it
and was lied to by CCW about where I could get it worked on. I was
told there where several places that would honor my warranty. Not
true! I looked Macy in the eyes at RITV at Perrin after driving it to
Fort Valley 3 times and it still wasn't fixed and asked him where
else I could take it because they couldn't fix it. He told me Bleakly
was a great group of people and I could have my coach fixed there.
That was a lie. I took it there and spent 6 weeks calling and
pleading with CCW every day to have it fixed and they would never
approve anything. Bleakly at my pleading actually started working on
it and ran up a few thousand dollars of work and sent CCW a bill.
They refused to pay it. Bleakly actually called me and told me to
come get my coach off their lot. Did you buy your Bird new? Did you
get treated like this? I have spent over 10 thousand dollars out of
my pocket to just get warranty work done....have you? Did you have to
leave your coach at Fort Valley for 4 months to get something fixed?
I have. I could go on but I will stop. I just wanted to be treated
fairly if CCW was going to stay in business. How could they even
think of making a new coach when they treat their excisting customers
like this.

As for RITV at Branson, when they cashed my 375 dollar check I never
got an acknowledgment of any kind that I was even regestered. How
about a letter or email from Macy saying thanks for coming to RITV at
Branson. This year will be different and not like the past years. We
won't be offering alot of the things you have seen at RITV in the
past but I will be glad to see you there. Yes I knew that it would be
much different and toned down some but gee, give me a break. It was
the difference between night and day.

I will keep my M380 because I do like it and I have put too much
blood sweat and tears into it now to give up. Alot of M380 owners did
give up and got rid of it. I enjoy reading about you guys who have
the older "Real" Birds and I am kind of envious. My father-in-law
owned 10 Birds in his life. His last was a 97 and he said he wouldn't
buy another one because they where going to start putting slide outs
in them and that would ruin em. Ha, he was so right!

Thanks for your thoughts John and if there are any M380 owners out
there that need some help give me call. Please excuse my poor
spelling.

Lloyd Chaffin
2004 M380
817-371-3438

[Eric Perplies]

These are the hardest of times for the RV industry. Many of the
medium sized RV manufactures have failed. There is talk afoot of most
of the biggest names in the RV industry sinking. In my opinion the
leanest times are still in front of us. We would all like to see more
support from BB but even more importantly we all want to see Bluebird
survive.

If we have to miss the RIV, the free lunches and the outstanding
support we are use to; so be it. Survival is the issue and nothing
less than that is at stake in the coming year(s?). Consider how many
new BB have been sold since CCW has taken over. I would guess that
the terms that the old BB dealers extracted from the factory were
unsatisfactory for CCW causing CCW to strike new deals with new
dealerships.

I hope BB keeps tightening their belt. The path to survival is not
going to be achieved by doing things the same old way that they use to
be done. CCW's task of redefining BB is a daunting one. Go get em' CCW.

There: I got this off my chest.


Eric Perplies
96 42' WBWL
just left Branson but did not attend RIV

[Curt Sprenger]

Eric,

Well said., Eric. I THANK YOU FOR YOUR POST! You, I, and others are not greedy...some are.

On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 8:52 PM, Eric Perplies <"purple_ees@hotmail.com"> wrote:

These are the hardest of times for the RV industry. Many of the

medium sized RV manufactures have failed. There is talk afoot of most

of the biggest names in the RV industry sinking. In my opinion the

leanest times are still in front of us. We would all like to see more

support from BB but even more importantly we all want to see Bluebird

survive.



If we have to miss the RIV, the free lunches and the outstanding

support we are use to; so be it. Survival is the issue and nothing

less than that is at stake in the coming year(s?). Consider how many

new BB have been sold since CCW has taken over. I would guess that

the terms that the old BB dealers extracted from the factory were

unsatisfactory for CCW causing CCW to strike new deals with new

dealerships.



I hope BB keeps tightening their belt. The path to survival is not

going to be achieved by doing things the same old way that they use to

be done. CCW's task of redefining BB is a daunting one. Go get em' CCW.



There: I got this off my chest.



Eric Perplies

96 42' WBWL

just left Branson but did not attend RIV

--
Curt Sprenger
1987 PT38 8V92 "MacAttack Racing"
Anaheim Hills, CA

[erniecarpet@...]

LLoyd, I see that you have a Ft Worth phone number. Where are you located?

Ernie Ekberg
83PT40
Weatherford, Texas

---

Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your favorites, no registration required and great graphics – http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001"> check it out!

[Don Bradner]

David, as someone who moved from slides to no-slides deliberately, I would say
there is a big difference between demise and ruin in this instance.

A lot of manufacturers were dragged kicking and screaming into the slide
business because they had to (because demise was the other choice). Slides did a
lot of damage (ruin) to many coach models, and it is likely an M450 wouldn't
have weight problems without them. We would all have been better off (in my
opinion) if the slide had not been invented so the public wouldn't have insisted
on them.

Don Bradner
90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
My location: http://www.bbirdmaps.com/user2.cfm?user=1

On 10/28/2008 at 7:55 AM David Brady wrote:

>Actually, slide-outs saved 'em. Imagine trying to sell
>a motorhome today w/o a slide out. Impossible. The
>buying public demands expandable rooms. There are
>many things that may have spelled the demise of Wanderlodge,
>but please, let's not single out the expandable room.
>
>David Brady
>'02 LXi, (Living room slide, works great)
>
>
>Lloyd Chaffin wrote:
>>
>> John,
>>
>> I will keep my M380 because I do like it and I have put too much
>> blood sweat and tears into it now to give up. Alot of M380 owners did
>> give up and got rid of it. I enjoy reading about you guys who have
>> the older "Real" Birds and I am kind of envious. My father-in-law
>> owned 10 Birds in his life. His last was a 97 and he said he wouldn't
>> buy another one because they where going to start putting slide outs
>> in them and that would ruin em. Ha, he was so right!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>