A little of subject but something of interest

[Jack & Donna Smith]

Yeah Blair, I got the book you recommended, "The Long Emergency" and
just started reading it.
It will be a fight to get people into electric cars! Remember about
10 or 15 years ago, GM(?) brought one out, and the Feds said that by
the year 2005, 25% of the cars on the road would be electric? Where
are they??????
Nuclear Power? I think that France, Switzerland Japan, and other
countrys also, use it almost 100%. Difference there is that they have
a "Standard" plant, almost like buying one 'Off The Shelf' at WalMart.
Here, each and every plant was designed and built from the ground up,
and everything had to be tested, re-tested & approved by the NRC.
The Greenies have done so well with thier scare tactics that no
nuclear can be built in the future.
Refinerys? Wern't quite a few closed in the Houston area a number of
years ago?? Why can't they be reopened?
But that would not help California much, as we have standards that
require our Gasoline to be refined here with certian additives, so we
cannot import or export any of our gas.
Jack Smith
1973FC31
SoCal
============================================================



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Blair wrote:
> Well, that's a yes and a no.....please read the following, Blair
>
> "Boone Pickens Warns of Petroleum Production Peak
>
> >Legendary Oklahoma energy magnate, T. Boone Pickens will be 77
years old
> >
> >this month, and maybe because of that, he feels free to speak what's on
> >his
> >mind; and he did to an audience of alternative fuel advocates in Palm
> >Springs today.
> >
> >Addressing the 11th National Clean Cities conference, hosted by the
> >former
> >mayor of Palm Springs and introduced by former U.S. Energy Secretary
> >John
> >Herrington (1984-1989), Boone, as his friends refer to him, was candid
> >in
> >his views of wind energy, nuclear power, natural gas, and in particular
> >petroleum.
> >
> >While he acknowledges wind power is cheap today, he, as well as
> >former-Secretary Herrington, questioned the contribution it can make to
> >the
> >nation's future energy needs. He finds nuclear power attractive and
> >believes natural gas should be used to power our transportation fleets
> >rather than to generate electricity. In general, he was very upbeat
> >about
> >the prospects for alternative transportation fuels.
> >
> >But on the future of petroleum, he was less sanguine.
> >
> >"Let me tell you some facts the way I see it," he began. "Global oil
> >(production) is 84 million barrels (a day). I don't believe you can get
> >it
> >any more than 84 million barrels. I don't care what (Saudi Crown
Prince)
> >
> >Abdullah, (Russian Premier Vladimir) Putin or anybody else says about
> >oil
> >reserves or production. I think they are on decline in the biggest oil
> >fields in the world today and I know what's it like once you turn the
> >corner and start declining, it's a tread mill that you just can't keep
> >up
> >with.
> >
> >"So, when you start adding the reserves in these countries, you're not
> >even
> >replacing what you're taking out.
> >
> >"Let me take you to another situation quickly. 84 million barrels a day
> >times 365 days is 30 billion barrels of oil a year that we're
depleting.
> >
> >All of the world's (oil) industry doesn't even come close to replacing
> >30
> >billion barrels of oil. We don't spend enough money to even give
> >ourselves
> >a chance to replace 30 billion barrels. It may be because the prospects
> >are
> >not there. I rather imagine that's what the answer is to that.
> >
> >"So, if you accept that 84 million barrels a day is all the world can
> >(produce), and then look at refining capacity, I think it's just a
> >coincidence that refining capacity... world capacity... is 84 million
> >barrels a day. So, we're in balance: 84, 84.
> >
> >"Now you see the projections for the fourth quarter of '05, I mean like
> >tomorrow; it is 86 to 87 million barrels of oil a day required. China
> >(and)
> >India (are) growing fast. Our economy is going down a little bit,
but it
> >
> >doesn't seem to be shutting off demand for gasoline, oil, natural gas,
> >whatever. But around the world... just assume that the (U.S.)
economy is
> >
> >slowing, but China is still ramped up; it is still 86, 87 million for
> >the
> >fourth quarter.
> >
> >"Now we've got some pretty good inventory, those will be... I think..
> >they'll be gone in the third quarter. I can't wait to see how this is
> >all
> >going to play out.
> >
> >"Don't let the day-to-day NYMEX (New York Mercantile Exchange) fool
you,
> >
> >because it can turn and go the other direction. I may be wrong. Some of
> >the
> >experts say we'll be down to $35 oil by the end of the year. I think
> >it'll
> >be $60 oil by the end of the year. You're going to see $3 gasoline
> >twelve
> >months from today, or some time during that period. I know you've
> >already
> >experienced it in California. I am not that much out of it... But
in the
> >
> >Midwest you've probably got $2.20 today. That's the way I see it
> >unfolding".
> >
> >Pickens went to explain that if he were Energy "Czar", he'd immediately
> >begin to phase out the use of natural gas in electric power generation
> >and
> >encourage the construction of more coal-fired and nuclear power plants.
> >He'd use the natural gas to power transportation instead.
> >
> >Speaking of the various alternative fuels, he stated, "I don't
think any
> >of
> >them can miss. I think some will be further out than others.
Hydrogen, I
> >
> >think, is going to take a long time". Speaking before an audience with
> >vested interests in ethanol, biodiesel, propane and compressed natural
> >gas
> >as transportation fuels, he added that he believes all the alternatives
> >will work.
> >
> >"We're going to have to use shale oil the western slope of the Rockies.
> >That's going to happen. The technology is just about here", he noted,
> >adding that he blames both Republican and Democratic
administrations for
> >
> >not engaging in long term planning to meet the nation's future energy
> >needs.
> >
> >"It's all getting very, very tight. We're just about there. The sixty
> >percent we import now (of petroleum), is about all we can get from the
> >countries that export". He cited the example of Venezuela where its
> >"screwball" leader, Hugo Chavez has pledged to not sell any additional
> >oil
> >to the United States.
> >
> >"The majors, they talk about plenty of oil and that they can produce
> >more,
> >but if you look at ExxonMobile, ChevronTexaco, BP (British Petroleum),
> >all
> >the production (is) going down every year. They don't replace and they
> >don't add to production, but they say there's plenty of oil around.
> >
> >"Now why would they say that? One of the chief economists with one of
> >the
> >major oil companies... I was at a conference where he was... we were
> >talking and I asked, why do they say that? And he said, can you imagine
> >what would happen if one of these major oil company's CEO's got up and
> >made
> >a speech and he said, 'We're running out of oil'? I said there'd be
> >panic
> >and he said, 'That's right. They're not going to make the statement.
> >They're going to say there's plenty of oil around'".
> >
> >"I know that sounds rather simple, but that's the best answer I've
> >had...
> >why they keep saying that there's plenty of oil around. I can't
tell you
> >
> >positive, but I am just so sure that we have peaked and from here
on the
> >
> >demand side that we are going to have a hard time making the trip on
> >fuel.
> >I know demand will come down with price. That will happen".
> >
> >He answered several audience questions and predicted that if the summer
> >is
> >hot in the Southeast that natural gas prices will go to $10. "Natural
> >gas
> >is in decline", he stated, concluding that eventually the market will
> >sort
> >out the winners and losers".
> >
> >After his remarks, EV World asked Mr. Pickens if he agrees with
> >Houston-based investment banker Matthew Simmons that Saudi Arabia's oil
> >fields may be on the verge of decline and he replied that he did agree
> >him.
> >
> >If Pickens and Simmons are correct, then Crown Prince Abdullah's
> >promises
> >to raise production over the next ten years to 15 million barrels a day
> >may
> >be just wishful thinking, in which case, Saudi Arabia's role as swing
> >producer and oil price stabilizer may be a thing of the past. Oil
prices
> >
> >will begin to experience unprecedented volatility, which is likely to
> >place
> >serious stresses on a world largely unprepared for the end of cheap
> >fossil
> >fuels. The road from here on will be a bumpy one."
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 04:40 AM 6/16/2005, you wrote:
> >mikes got it right..randy
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Mike Hohnstein
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 7:27 AM
> > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] A little of subject but
something of
> > interest
> >
> >
> > That's all good but the real problem is the lack of refining
capacity
> > in this country. The "not in my back yard" syndrome is the problem
> > there, not to mention restrictive regulations meant to save the
world or
> > something.
> > Mike Hohnstein
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: DAY8293A@C...
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 11:53 PM
> > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] A little of subject but
something of
> > interest
> >
> >
> > 55 MAY BE GOOD FOR OUR COACHES, BUT THE BIG RIGS USE
> > MORE FUEL
> > GOING 55. I HAD A 4 SPEED CHEVY VEGA SET UP WITH A HIGHWAY
SPEED
> > (70 MPH)
> > REAR END, AND WAS GETTING 30 MPG. MUCH MORE THAN WHEN I BOUGHT IT.
> > WHEN PRESIDENT "JIMMAY" LOWERED THE SPEED LIMIT TO 55 MPH, I
> > COULD NO
> > LONGER MAKE IT UP HILLS IN FOURTH GEAR, AND HAD TO DOWN SHIFT TO
> > THIRD,,, JUST
> > LIKE THE BIG TRUCKS HAD TO DO,,, AND DOWN WENT MY FUEL MILEAGE !!!
> > IT HELPS SOME VEHICLES TO GO SLOW, AND OTHERS CAN CRUISE
AT HIGHER
> > SPEEDS AND DO BETTER. I CAN GET 30 MPG IN MY CORVETTE AT 70
MPH. (I
> > USED TO GET
> > 36 MPG IN MY 93 VETTE)
> > I THINK PEOPLE WILL SLOW DOWN TO SAVE GAS IF IT WORKS FOR
THEIR
> > VEHICLE,,, I KNOW I SLOW DOWN,,, WE DON'T NEED THE GOV'T ON
OUR CASE
> > ANYMORE.
> > WHAT WE DO NEED IS TO LIFT THE NICKLE A GALLON FUEL TAX
THAT "SLICK
> > WILLY" PUT ON FUEL WHEN HE WAS IN OFFICE,,,, DAY, IN JAX FLA
> > ,,,,83PT-40,,,
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/\
WanderlodgeForum/
> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >
>
><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/\
WanderlodgeForum/
> >
> > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >----------
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > *
> >
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/W\
anderlodgeForum/

> >
> > *
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > *
> >
Wanderl\
odgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

> >
> > *
> > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Tom Warner]

Jack I still remember the gas shortage scare of the 1970s when I was going
to college. Everyone forcasted the gloom and doom of the future and said we
would all be commuting on skate boards and bicycles powered by rubber
bands. Americans never learn. We went back to our old wasteful habits again
and the environmentalists put up a smoke screen that stopped development of
refineries etc. When will we every learn.

I want a new Mercedes Diesel but nice old New York is thinking about
banning them. You already cannot get a VW passat diesel.

tom
1982 FC35
Vernon Center,NY

At 01:56 PM 6/16/2005 +0000, you wrote:
>Yeah Blair, I got the book you recommended, "The Long Emergency" and
>just started reading it.
>It will be a fight to get people into electric cars! Remember about
>10 or 15 years ago, GM(?) brought one out, and the Feds said that by
>the year 2005, 25% of the cars on the road would be electric? Where
>are they??????
>Nuclear Power? I think that France, Switzerland Japan, and other
>countrys also, use it almost 100%. Difference there is that they have
>a "Standard" plant, almost like buying one 'Off The Shelf' at WalMart.
> Here, each and every plant was designed and built from the ground up,
>and everything had to be tested, re-tested & approved by the NRC.
>The Greenies have done so well with thier scare tactics that no
>nuclear can be built in the future.
>Refinerys? Wern't quite a few closed in the Houston area a number of
>years ago?? Why can't they be reopened?
>But that would not help California much, as we have standards that
>require our Gasoline to be refined here with certian additives, so we
>cannot import or export any of our gas.
>Jack Smith
>1973FC31
>SoCal
>============================================================
>
>
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Blair wrote:
> > Well, that's a yes and a no.....please read the following, Blair
> >
> > "Boone Pickens Warns of Petroleum Production Peak
> >
> > >Legendary Oklahoma energy magnate, T. Boone Pickens will be 77
>years old
> > >
> > >this month, and maybe because of that, he feels free to speak what's on
> > >his
> > >mind; and he did to an audience of alternative fuel advocates in Palm
> > >Springs today.
> > >
> > >Addressing the 11th National Clean Cities conference, hosted by the
> > >former
> > >mayor of Palm Springs and introduced by former U.S. Energy Secretary
> > >John
> > >Herrington (1984-1989), Boone, as his friends refer to him, was candid
> > >in
> > >his views of wind energy, nuclear power, natural gas, and in particular
> > >petroleum.
> > >
> > >While he acknowledges wind power is cheap today, he, as well as
> > >former-Secretary Herrington, questioned the contribution it can make to
> > >the
> > >nation's future energy needs. He finds nuclear power attractive and
> > >believes natural gas should be used to power our transportation fleets
> > >rather than to generate electricity. In general, he was very upbeat
> > >about
> > >the prospects for alternative transportation fuels.
> > >
> > >But on the future of petroleum, he was less sanguine.
> > >
> > >"Let me tell you some facts the way I see it," he began. "Global oil
> > >(production) is 84 million barrels (a day). I don't believe you can get
> > >it
> > >any more than 84 million barrels. I don't care what (Saudi Crown
>Prince)
> > >
> > >Abdullah, (Russian Premier Vladimir) Putin or anybody else says about
> > >oil
> > >reserves or production. I think they are on decline in the biggest oil
> > >fields in the world today and I know what's it like once you turn the
> > >corner and start declining, it's a tread mill that you just can't keep
> > >up
> > >with.
> > >
> > >"So, when you start adding the reserves in these countries, you're not
> > >even
> > >replacing what you're taking out.
> > >
> > >"Let me take you to another situation quickly. 84 million barrels a day
> > >times 365 days is 30 billion barrels of oil a year that we're
>depleting.
> > >
> > >All of the world's (oil) industry doesn't even come close to replacing
> > >30
> > >billion barrels of oil. We don't spend enough money to even give
> > >ourselves
> > >a chance to replace 30 billion barrels. It may be because the prospects
> > >are
> > >not there. I rather imagine that's what the answer is to that.
> > >
> > >"So, if you accept that 84 million barrels a day is all the world can
> > >(produce), and then look at refining capacity, I think it's just a
> > >coincidence that refining capacity... world capacity... is 84 million
> > >barrels a day. So, we're in balance: 84, 84.
> > >
> > >"Now you see the projections for the fourth quarter of '05, I mean like
> > >tomorrow; it is 86 to 87 million barrels of oil a day required. China
> > >(and)
> > >India (are) growing fast. Our economy is going down a little bit,
>but it
> > >
> > >doesn't seem to be shutting off demand for gasoline, oil, natural gas,
> > >whatever. But around the world... just assume that the (U.S.)
>economy is
> > >
> > >slowing, but China is still ramped up; it is still 86, 87 million for
> > >the
> > >fourth quarter.
> > >
> > >"Now we've got some pretty good inventory, those will be... I think..
> > >they'll be gone in the third quarter. I can't wait to see how this is
> > >all
> > >going to play out.
> > >
> > >"Don't let the day-to-day NYMEX (New York Mercantile Exchange) fool
>you,
> > >
> > >because it can turn and go the other direction. I may be wrong. Some of
> > >the
> > >experts say we'll be down to $35 oil by the end of the year. I think
> > >it'll
> > >be $60 oil by the end of the year. You're going to see $3 gasoline
> > >twelve
> > >months from today, or some time during that period. I know you've
> > >already
> > >experienced it in California. I am not that much out of it... But
>in the
> > >
> > >Midwest you've probably got $2.20 today. That's the way I see it
> > >unfolding".
> > >
> > >Pickens went to explain that if he were Energy "Czar", he'd immediately
> > >begin to phase out the use of natural gas in electric power generation
> > >and
> > >encourage the construction of more coal-fired and nuclear power plants.
> > >He'd use the natural gas to power transportation instead.
> > >
> > >Speaking of the various alternative fuels, he stated, "I don't
>think any
> > >of
> > >them can miss. I think some will be further out than others.
>Hydrogen, I
> > >
> > >think, is going to take a long time". Speaking before an audience with
> > >vested interests in ethanol, biodiesel, propane and compressed natural
> > >gas
> > >as transportation fuels, he added that he believes all the alternatives
> > >will work.
> > >
> > >"We're going to have to use shale oil the western slope of the Rockies.
> > >That's going to happen. The technology is just about here", he noted,
> > >adding that he blames both Republican and Democratic
>administrations for
> > >
> > >not engaging in long term planning to meet the nation's future energy
> > >needs.
> > >
> > >"It's all getting very, very tight. We're just about there. The sixty
> > >percent we import now (of petroleum), is about all we can get from the
> > >countries that export". He cited the example of Venezuela where its
> > >"screwball" leader, Hugo Chavez has pledged to not sell any additional
> > >oil
> > >to the United States.
> > >
> > >"The majors, they talk about plenty of oil and that they can produce
> > >more,
> > >but if you look at ExxonMobile, ChevronTexaco, BP (British Petroleum),
> > >all
> > >the production (is) going down every year. They don't replace and they
> > >don't add to production, but they say there's plenty of oil around.
> > >
> > >"Now why would they say that? One of the chief economists with one of
> > >the
> > >major oil companies... I was at a conference where he was... we were
> > >talking and I asked, why do they say that? And he said, can you imagine
> > >what would happen if one of these major oil company's CEO's got up and
> > >made
> > >a speech and he said, 'We're running out of oil'? I said there'd be
> > >panic
> > >and he said, 'That's right. They're not going to make the statement.
> > >They're going to say there's plenty of oil around'".
> > >
> > >"I know that sounds rather simple, but that's the best answer I've
> > >had...
> > >why they keep saying that there's plenty of oil around. I can't
>tell you
> > >
> > >positive, but I am just so sure that we have peaked and from here
>on the
> > >
> > >demand side that we are going to have a hard time making the trip on
> > >fuel.
> > >I know demand will come down with price. That will happen".
> > >
> > >He answered several audience questions and predicted that if the summer
> > >is
> > >hot in the Southeast that natural gas prices will go to $10. "Natural
> > >gas
> > >is in decline", he stated, concluding that eventually the market will
> > >sort
> > >out the winners and losers".
> > >
> > >After his remarks, EV World asked Mr. Pickens if he agrees with
> > >Houston-based investment banker Matthew Simmons that Saudi Arabia's oil
> > >fields may be on the verge of decline and he replied that he did agree
> > >him.
> > >
> > >If Pickens and Simmons are correct, then Crown Prince Abdullah's
> > >promises
> > >to raise production over the next ten years to 15 million barrels a day
> > >may
> > >be just wishful thinking, in which case, Saudi Arabia's role as swing
> > >producer and oil price stabilizer may be a thing of the past. Oil
>prices
> > >
> > >will begin to experience unprecedented volatility, which is likely to
> > >place
> > >serious stresses on a world largely unprepared for the end of cheap
> > >fossil
> > >fuels. The road from here on will be a bumpy one."
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 04:40 AM 6/16/2005, you wrote:
> > >mikes got it right..randy
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Mike Hohnstein
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 7:27 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] A little of subject but
>something of
> > > interest
> > >
> > >
> > > That's all good but the real problem is the lack of refining
>capacity
> > > in this country. The "not in my back yard" syndrome is the problem
> > > there, not to mention restrictive regulations meant to save the
>world or
> > > something.
> > > Mike Hohnstein
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: DAY8293A@C...
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 11:53 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] A little of subject but
>something of
> > > interest
> > >
> > >
> > > 55 MAY BE GOOD FOR OUR COACHES, BUT THE BIG RIGS USE
> > > MORE FUEL
> > > GOING 55. I HAD A 4 SPEED CHEVY VEGA SET UP WITH A HIGHWAY
>SPEED
> > > (70 MPH)
> > > REAR END, AND WAS GETTING 30 MPG. MUCH MORE THAN WHEN I BOUGHT IT.
> > > WHEN PRESIDENT "JIMMAY" LOWERED THE SPEED LIMIT TO 55 MPH, I
> > > COULD NO
> > > LONGER MAKE IT UP HILLS IN FOURTH GEAR, AND HAD TO DOWN SHIFT TO
> > > THIRD,,, JUST
> > > LIKE THE BIG TRUCKS HAD TO DO,,, AND DOWN WENT MY FUEL MILEAGE !!!
> > > IT HELPS SOME VEHICLES TO GO SLOW, AND OTHERS CAN CRUISE
>AT HIGHER
> > > SPEEDS AND DO BETTER. I CAN GET 30 MPG IN MY CORVETTE AT 70
>MPH. (I
> > > USED TO GET
> > > 36 MPG IN MY 93 VETTE)
> > > I THINK PEOPLE WILL SLOW DOWN TO SAVE GAS IF IT WORKS FOR
>THEIR
> > > VEHICLE,,, I KNOW I SLOW DOWN,,, WE DON'T NEED THE GOV'T ON
>OUR CASE
> > > ANYMORE.
> > > WHAT WE DO NEED IS TO LIFT THE NICKLE A GALLON FUEL TAX
>THAT "SLICK
> > > WILLY" PUT ON FUEL WHEN HE WAS IN OFFICE,,,, DAY, IN JAX FLA
> > > ,,,,83PT-40,,,
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > >
> >
> ><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/>http://groups.yahoo.com/
> group/WanderlodgeForum/
> > >
> > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> > > Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
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> > >
> >
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> group/WanderlodgeForum/
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> > >
> > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
>of Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
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> > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
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>Yahoo! Groups Links
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>

[Henry Jay Hannigan]

--IN Australia most of the people use LPG in cars..much cheaper!! My
old toyota is dual fuel; petrol and LPG just pull up to the pump
and fill up with LPG..no big deal here we are way behind.
later
Hank Hannigan
90SP and lovin it!!!!
- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
> Jack I still remember the gas shortage scare of the 1970s when I
was going
> to college. Everyone forcasted the gloom and doom of the future
and said we
> would all be commuting on skate boards and bicycles powered by
rubber
> bands. Americans never learn. We went back to our old wasteful
habits again
> and the environmentalists put up a smoke screen that stopped
development of
> refineries etc. When will we every learn.
>
> I want a new Mercedes Diesel but nice old New York is thinking
about
> banning them. You already cannot get a VW passat diesel.
>
> tom
> 1982 FC35
> Vernon Center,NY
>
> At 01:56 PM 6/16/2005 +0000, you wrote:
> >Yeah Blair, I got the book you recommended, "The Long Emergency"
and
> >just started reading it.
> >It will be a fight to get people into electric cars! Remember
about
> >10 or 15 years ago, GM(?) brought one out, and the Feds said that
by
> >the year 2005, 25% of the cars on the road would be electric?
Where
> >are they??????
> >Nuclear Power? I think that France, Switzerland Japan, and other
> >countrys also, use it almost 100%. Difference there is that they
have
> >a "Standard" plant, almost like buying one 'Off The Shelf' at
WalMart.
> > Here, each and every plant was designed and built from the
ground up,
> >and everything had to be tested, re-tested & approved by the NRC.
> >The Greenies have done so well with thier scare tactics that no
> >nuclear can be built in the future.
> >Refinerys? Wern't quite a few closed in the Houston area a
number of
> >years ago?? Why can't they be reopened?
> >But that would not help California much, as we have standards that
> >require our Gasoline to be refined here with certian additives,
so we
> >cannot import or export any of our gas.
> >Jack Smith
> >1973FC31
> >SoCal
> >============================================================
> >
> >
> >
> >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Blair
wrote:
> > > Well, that's a yes and a no.....please read the following,
Blair
> > >
> > > "Boone Pickens Warns of Petroleum Production Peak
> > >
> > > >Legendary Oklahoma energy magnate, T. Boone Pickens will be 77
> >years old
> > > >
> > > >this month, and maybe because of that, he feels free to speak
what's on
> > > >his
> > > >mind; and he did to an audience of alternative fuel advocates
in Palm
> > > >Springs today.
> > > >
> > > >Addressing the 11th National Clean Cities conference, hosted
by the
> > > >former
> > > >mayor of Palm Springs and introduced by former U.S. Energy
Secretary
> > > >John
> > > >Herrington (1984-1989), Boone, as his friends refer to him,
was candid
> > > >in
> > > >his views of wind energy, nuclear power, natural gas, and in
particular
> > > >petroleum.
> > > >
> > > >While he acknowledges wind power is cheap today, he, as well
as
> > > >former-Secretary Herrington, questioned the contribution it
can make to
> > > >the
> > > >nation's future energy needs. He finds nuclear power
attractive and
> > > >believes natural gas should be used to power our
transportation fleets
> > > >rather than to generate electricity. In general, he was very
upbeat
> > > >about
> > > >the prospects for alternative transportation fuels.
> > > >
> > > >But on the future of petroleum, he was less sanguine.
> > > >
> > > >"Let me tell you some facts the way I see it," he
began. "Global oil
> > > >(production) is 84 million barrels (a day). I don't believe
you can get
> > > >it
> > > >any more than 84 million barrels. I don't care what (Saudi
Crown
> >Prince)
> > > >
> > > >Abdullah, (Russian Premier Vladimir) Putin or anybody else
says about
> > > >oil
> > > >reserves or production. I think they are on decline in the
biggest oil
> > > >fields in the world today and I know what's it like once you
turn the
> > > >corner and start declining, it's a tread mill that you just
can't keep
> > > >up
> > > >with.
> > > >
> > > >"So, when you start adding the reserves in these countries,
you're not
> > > >even
> > > >replacing what you're taking out.
> > > >
> > > >"Let me take you to another situation quickly. 84 million
barrels a day
> > > >times 365 days is 30 billion barrels of oil a year that we're
> >depleting.
> > > >
> > > >All of the world's (oil) industry doesn't even come close to
replacing
> > > >30
> > > >billion barrels of oil. We don't spend enough money to even
give
> > > >ourselves
> > > >a chance to replace 30 billion barrels. It may be because the
prospects
> > > >are
> > > >not there. I rather imagine that's what the answer is to that.
> > > >
> > > >"So, if you accept that 84 million barrels a day is all the
world can
> > > >(produce), and then look at refining capacity, I think it's
just a
> > > >coincidence that refining capacity... world capacity... is 84
million
> > > >barrels a day. So, we're in balance: 84, 84.
> > > >
> > > >"Now you see the projections for the fourth quarter of '05, I
mean like
> > > >tomorrow; it is 86 to 87 million barrels of oil a day
required. China
> > > >(and)
> > > >India (are) growing fast. Our economy is going down a little
bit,
> >but it
> > > >
> > > >doesn't seem to be shutting off demand for gasoline, oil,
natural gas,
> > > >whatever. But around the world... just assume that the (U.S.)
> >economy is
> > > >
> > > >slowing, but China is still ramped up; it is still 86, 87
million for
> > > >the
> > > >fourth quarter.
> > > >
> > > >"Now we've got some pretty good inventory, those will be... I
think..
> > > >they'll be gone in the third quarter. I can't wait to see how
this is
> > > >all
> > > >going to play out.
> > > >
> > > >"Don't let the day-to-day NYMEX (New York Mercantile
Exchange) fool
> >you,
> > > >
> > > >because it can turn and go the other direction. I may be
wrong. Some of
> > > >the
> > > >experts say we'll be down to $35 oil by the end of the year.
I think
> > > >it'll
> > > >be $60 oil by the end of the year. You're going to see $3
gasoline
> > > >twelve
> > > >months from today, or some time during that period. I know
you've
> > > >already
> > > >experienced it in California. I am not that much out of it...
But
> >in the
> > > >
> > > >Midwest you've probably got $2.20 today. That's the way I see
it
> > > >unfolding".
> > > >
> > > >Pickens went to explain that if he were Energy "Czar", he'd
immediately
> > > >begin to phase out the use of natural gas in electric power
generation
> > > >and
> > > >encourage the construction of more coal-fired and nuclear
power plants.
> > > >He'd use the natural gas to power transportation instead.
> > > >
> > > >Speaking of the various alternative fuels, he stated, "I don't
> >think any
> > > >of
> > > >them can miss. I think some will be further out than others.
> >Hydrogen, I
> > > >
> > > >think, is going to take a long time". Speaking before an
audience with
> > > >vested interests in ethanol, biodiesel, propane and
compressed natural
> > > >gas
> > > >as transportation fuels, he added that he believes all the
alternatives
> > > >will work.
> > > >
> > > >"We're going to have to use shale oil the western slope of
the Rockies.
> > > >That's going to happen. The technology is just about here",
he noted,
> > > >adding that he blames both Republican and Democratic
> >administrations for
> > > >
> > > >not engaging in long term planning to meet the nation's
future energy
> > > >needs.
> > > >
> > > >"It's all getting very, very tight. We're just about there.
The sixty
> > > >percent we import now (of petroleum), is about all we can get
from the
> > > >countries that export". He cited the example of Venezuela
where its
> > > >"screwball" leader, Hugo Chavez has pledged to not sell any
additional
> > > >oil
> > > >to the United States.
> > > >
> > > >"The majors, they talk about plenty of oil and that they can
produce
> > > >more,
> > > >but if you look at ExxonMobile, ChevronTexaco, BP (British
Petroleum),
> > > >all
> > > >the production (is) going down every year. They don't replace
and they
> > > >don't add to production, but they say there's plenty of oil
around.
> > > >
> > > >"Now why would they say that? One of the chief economists
with one of
> > > >the
> > > >major oil companies... I was at a conference where he was...
we were
> > > >talking and I asked, why do they say that? And he said, can
you imagine
> > > >what would happen if one of these major oil company's CEO's
got up and
> > > >made
> > > >a speech and he said, 'We're running out of oil'? I said
there'd be
> > > >panic
> > > >and he said, 'That's right. They're not going to make the
statement.
> > > >They're going to say there's plenty of oil around'".
> > > >
> > > >"I know that sounds rather simple, but that's the best answer
I've
> > > >had...
> > > >why they keep saying that there's plenty of oil around. I
can't
> >tell you
> > > >
> > > >positive, but I am just so sure that we have peaked and from
here
> >on the
> > > >
> > > >demand side that we are going to have a hard time making the
trip on
> > > >fuel.
> > > >I know demand will come down with price. That will happen".
> > > >
> > > >He answered several audience questions and predicted that if
the summer
> > > >is
> > > >hot in the Southeast that natural gas prices will go to
$10. "Natural
> > > >gas
> > > >is in decline", he stated, concluding that eventually the
market will
> > > >sort
> > > >out the winners and losers".
> > > >
> > > >After his remarks, EV World asked Mr. Pickens if he agrees
with
> > > >Houston-based investment banker Matthew Simmons that Saudi
Arabia's oil
> > > >fields may be on the verge of decline and he replied that he
did agree
> > > >him.
> > > >
> > > >If Pickens and Simmons are correct, then Crown Prince
Abdullah's
> > > >promises
> > > >to raise production over the next ten years to 15 million
barrels a day
> > > >may
> > > >be just wishful thinking, in which case, Saudi Arabia's role
as swing
> > > >producer and oil price stabilizer may be a thing of the past.
Oil
> >prices
> > > >
> > > >will begin to experience unprecedented volatility, which is
likely to
> > > >place
> > > >serious stresses on a world largely unprepared for the end of
cheap
> > > >fossil
> > > >fuels. The road from here on will be a bumpy one."
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > At 04:40 AM 6/16/2005, you wrote:
> > > >mikes got it right..randy
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Mike Hohnstein
> > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 7:27 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] A little of subject but
> >something of
> > > > interest
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That's all good but the real problem is the lack of
refining
> >capacity
> > > > in this country. The "not in my back yard" syndrome is the
problem
> > > > there, not to mention restrictive regulations meant to save
the
> >world or
> > > > something.
> > > > Mike Hohnstein
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: DAY8293A@C...
> > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 11:53 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] A little of subject but
> >something of
> > > > interest
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 55 MAY BE GOOD FOR OUR COACHES, BUT THE BIG
RIGS USE
> > > > MORE FUEL
> > > > GOING 55. I HAD A 4 SPEED CHEVY VEGA SET UP WITH A
HIGHWAY
> >SPEED
> > > > (70 MPH)
> > > > REAR END, AND WAS GETTING 30 MPG. MUCH MORE THAN WHEN I
BOUGHT IT.
> > > > WHEN PRESIDENT "JIMMAY" LOWERED THE SPEED LIMIT TO
55 MPH, I
> > > > COULD NO
> > > > LONGER MAKE IT UP HILLS IN FOURTH GEAR, AND HAD TO DOWN
SHIFT TO
> > > > THIRD,,, JUST
> > > > LIKE THE BIG TRUCKS HAD TO DO,,, AND DOWN WENT MY FUEL
MILEAGE !!!
> > > > IT HELPS SOME VEHICLES TO GO SLOW, AND OTHERS CAN
CRUISE
> >AT HIGHER
> > > > SPEEDS AND DO BETTER. I CAN GET 30 MPG IN MY CORVETTE
AT 70
> >MPH. (I
> > > > USED TO GET
> > > > 36 MPG IN MY 93 VETTE)
> > > > I THINK PEOPLE WILL SLOW DOWN TO SAVE GAS IF IT
WORKS FOR
> >THEIR
> > > > VEHICLE,,, I KNOW I SLOW DOWN,,, WE DON'T NEED THE GOV'T
ON
> >OUR CASE
> > > > ANYMORE.
> > > > WHAT WE DO NEED IS TO LIFT THE NICKLE A GALLON FUEL
TAX
> >THAT "SLICK
> > > > WILLY" PUT ON FUEL WHEN HE WAS IN OFFICE,,,, DAY, IN JAX
FLA
> > > > ,,,,83PT-40,,,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >----------------------------------------------------------------
---------
> > -----
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > >
> > >
> >
><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/>http://groups.yahoo
.com/
> > group/WanderlodgeForum/
> > > >
> > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of
> > > > Service.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >----------------------------------------------------------------
---------
> > -----
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > >
> > >
> >
><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/>http://groups.yahoo
.com/
> > group/WanderlodgeForum/
> > > >
> > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms
> >of Service.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >----------
> > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > > *
> > > >
>
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.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/
> >
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> > > > *
> > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > *
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> > subject=Unsubscribe>WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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> > > > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >

[Jack & Donna Smith]

Several years ago, we spent a couple of months in The Netherlands.
Our car was a 626 Mazda "Dual Fuel". We drove it mostly to town and
within a 30 mile radius of the House. It ran on Gasoline and
"Auto-Gas", which I took to be Propane. A simple switch on the
dashboard selected the changeover. The LPG tank was in the trunk.
Usually, we drove to the train station, as this form of transportation
is so efficent, easy, and goes everywhere.
Jack Smith
SoCal

===============================================================

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Henry Jay Hannigan"
wrote:
> --IN Australia most of the people use LPG in cars..much cheaper!! My
> old toyota is dual fuel; petrol and LPG just pull up to the pump
> and fill up with LPG..no big deal here we are way behind.
> later
> Hank Hannigan
> 90SP and lovin it!!!!
> - In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
> wrote:
> > Jack I still remember the gas shortage scare of the 1970s when I
> was going
> > to college. Everyone forcasted the gloom and doom of the future
> and said we
> > would all be commuting on skate boards and bicycles powered by
> rubber
> > bands. Americans never learn. We went back to our old wasteful
> habits again
> > and the environmentalists put up a smoke screen that stopped
> development of
> > refineries etc. When will we every learn.
> >
> > I want a new Mercedes Diesel but nice old New York is thinking
> about
> > banning them. You already cannot get a VW passat diesel.
> >
> > tom
> > 1982 FC35
> > Vernon Center,NY
> >
> > At 01:56 PM 6/16/2005 +0000, you wrote:
> > >Yeah Blair, I got the book you recommended, "The Long Emergency"
> and
> > >just started reading it.
> > >It will be a fight to get people into electric cars! Remember
> about
> > >10 or 15 years ago, GM(?) brought one out, and the Feds said that
> by
> > >the year 2005, 25% of the cars on the road would be electric?
> Where
> > >are they??????
> > >Nuclear Power? I think that France, Switzerland Japan, and other
> > >countrys also, use it almost 100%. Difference there is that they
> have
> > >a "Standard" plant, almost like buying one 'Off The Shelf' at
> WalMart.
> > > Here, each and every plant was designed and built from the
> ground up,
> > >and everything had to be tested, re-tested & approved by the NRC.
> > >The Greenies have done so well with thier scare tactics that no
> > >nuclear can be built in the future.
> > >Refinerys? Wern't quite a few closed in the Houston area a
> number of
> > >years ago?? Why can't they be reopened?
> > >But that would not help California much, as we have standards that
> > >require our Gasoline to be refined here with certian additives,
> so we
> > >cannot import or export any of our gas.
> > >Jack Smith
> > >1973FC31
> > >SoCal
> > >============================================================
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Blair
> wrote:
> > > > Well, that's a yes and a no.....please read the following,
> Blair
> > > >
> > > > "Boone Pickens Warns of Petroleum Production Peak
> > > >
> > > > >Legendary Oklahoma energy magnate, T. Boone Pickens will be 77
> > >years old
> > > > >
> > > > >this month, and maybe because of that, he feels free to speak
> what's on
> > > > >his
> > > > >mind; and he did to an audience of alternative fuel advocates
> in Palm
> > > > >Springs today.
> > > > >
> > > > >Addressing the 11th National Clean Cities conference, hosted
> by the
> > > > >former
> > > > >mayor of Palm Springs and introduced by former U.S. Energy
> Secretary
> > > > >John
> > > > >Herrington (1984-1989), Boone, as his friends refer to him,
> was candid
> > > > >in
> > > > >his views of wind energy, nuclear power, natural gas, and in
> particular
> > > > >petroleum.
> > > > >
> > > > >While he acknowledges wind power is cheap today, he, as well
> as
> > > > >former-Secretary Herrington, questioned the contribution it
> can make to
> > > > >the
> > > > >nation's future energy needs. He finds nuclear power
> attractive and
> > > > >believes natural gas should be used to power our
> transportation fleets
> > > > >rather than to generate electricity. In general, he was very
> upbeat
> > > > >about
> > > > >the prospects for alternative transportation fuels.
> > > > >
> > > > >But on the future of petroleum, he was less sanguine.
> > > > >
> > > > >"Let me tell you some facts the way I see it," he
> began. "Global oil
> > > > >(production) is 84 million barrels (a day). I don't believe
> you can get
> > > > >it
> > > > >any more than 84 million barrels. I don't care what (Saudi
> Crown
> > >Prince)
> > > > >
> > > > >Abdullah, (Russian Premier Vladimir) Putin or anybody else
> says about
> > > > >oil
> > > > >reserves or production. I think they are on decline in the
> biggest oil
> > > > >fields in the world today and I know what's it like once you
> turn the
> > > > >corner and start declining, it's a tread mill that you just
> can't keep
> > > > >up
> > > > >with.
> > > > >
> > > > >"So, when you start adding the reserves in these countries,
> you're not
> > > > >even
> > > > >replacing what you're taking out.
> > > > >
> > > > >"Let me take you to another situation quickly. 84 million
> barrels a day
> > > > >times 365 days is 30 billion barrels of oil a year that we're
> > >depleting.
> > > > >
> > > > >All of the world's (oil) industry doesn't even come close to
> replacing
> > > > >30
> > > > >billion barrels of oil. We don't spend enough money to even
> give
> > > > >ourselves
> > > > >a chance to replace 30 billion barrels. It may be because the
> prospects
> > > > >are
> > > > >not there. I rather imagine that's what the answer is to that.
> > > > >
> > > > >"So, if you accept that 84 million barrels a day is all the
> world can
> > > > >(produce), and then look at refining capacity, I think it's
> just a
> > > > >coincidence that refining capacity... world capacity... is 84
> million
> > > > >barrels a day. So, we're in balance: 84, 84.
> > > > >
> > > > >"Now you see the projections for the fourth quarter of '05, I
> mean like
> > > > >tomorrow; it is 86 to 87 million barrels of oil a day
> required. China
> > > > >(and)
> > > > >India (are) growing fast. Our economy is going down a little
> bit,
> > >but it
> > > > >
> > > > >doesn't seem to be shutting off demand for gasoline, oil,
> natural gas,
> > > > >whatever. But around the world... just assume that the (U.S.)
> > >economy is
> > > > >
> > > > >slowing, but China is still ramped up; it is still 86, 87
> million for
> > > > >the
> > > > >fourth quarter.
> > > > >
> > > > >"Now we've got some pretty good inventory, those will be... I
> think..
> > > > >they'll be gone in the third quarter. I can't wait to see how
> this is
> > > > >all
> > > > >going to play out.
> > > > >
> > > > >"Don't let the day-to-day NYMEX (New York Mercantile
> Exchange) fool
> > >you,
> > > > >
> > > > >because it can turn and go the other direction. I may be
> wrong. Some of
> > > > >the
> > > > >experts say we'll be down to $35 oil by the end of the year.
> I think
> > > > >it'll
> > > > >be $60 oil by the end of the year. You're going to see $3
> gasoline
> > > > >twelve
> > > > >months from today, or some time during that period. I know
> you've
> > > > >already
> > > > >experienced it in California. I am not that much out of it...
> But
> > >in the
> > > > >
> > > > >Midwest you've probably got $2.20 today. That's the way I see
> it
> > > > >unfolding".
> > > > >
> > > > >Pickens went to explain that if he were Energy "Czar", he'd
> immediately
> > > > >begin to phase out the use of natural gas in electric power
> generation
> > > > >and
> > > > >encourage the construction of more coal-fired and nuclear
> power plants.
> > > > >He'd use the natural gas to power transportation instead.
> > > > >
> > > > >Speaking of the various alternative fuels, he stated, "I don't
> > >think any
> > > > >of
> > > > >them can miss. I think some will be further out than others.
> > >Hydrogen, I
> > > > >
> > > > >think, is going to take a long time". Speaking before an
> audience with
> > > > >vested interests in ethanol, biodiesel, propane and
> compressed natural
> > > > >gas
> > > > >as transportation fuels, he added that he believes all the
> alternatives
> > > > >will work.
> > > > >
> > > > >"We're going to have to use shale oil the western slope of
> the Rockies.
> > > > >That's going to happen. The technology is just about here",
> he noted,
> > > > >adding that he blames both Republican and Democratic
> > >administrations for
> > > > >
> > > > >not engaging in long term planning to meet the nation's
> future energy
> > > > >needs.
> > > > >
> > > > >"It's all getting very, very tight. We're just about there.
> The sixty
> > > > >percent we import now (of petroleum), is about all we can get
> from the
> > > > >countries that export". He cited the example of Venezuela
> where its
> > > > >"screwball" leader, Hugo Chavez has pledged to not sell any
> additional
> > > > >oil
> > > > >to the United States.
> > > > >
> > > > >"The majors, they talk about plenty of oil and that they can
> produce
> > > > >more,
> > > > >but if you look at ExxonMobile, ChevronTexaco, BP (British
> Petroleum),
> > > > >all
> > > > >the production (is) going down every year. They don't replace
> and they
> > > > >don't add to production, but they say there's plenty of oil
> around.
> > > > >
> > > > >"Now why would they say that? One of the chief economists
> with one of
> > > > >the
> > > > >major oil companies... I was at a conference where he was...
> we were
> > > > >talking and I asked, why do they say that? And he said, can
> you imagine
> > > > >what would happen if one of these major oil company's CEO's
> got up and
> > > > >made
> > > > >a speech and he said, 'We're running out of oil'? I said
> there'd be
> > > > >panic
> > > > >and he said, 'That's right. They're not going to make the
> statement.
> > > > >They're going to say there's plenty of oil around'".
> > > > >
> > > > >"I know that sounds rather simple, but that's the best answer
> I've
> > > > >had...
> > > > >why they keep saying that there's plenty of oil around. I
> can't
> > >tell you
> > > > >
> > > > >positive, but I am just so sure that we have peaked and from
> here
> > >on the
> > > > >
> > > > >demand side that we are going to have a hard time making the
> trip on
> > > > >fuel.
> > > > >I know demand will come down with price. That will happen".
> > > > >
> > > > >He answered several audience questions and predicted that if
> the summer
> > > > >is
> > > > >hot in the Southeast that natural gas prices will go to
> $10. "Natural
> > > > >gas
> > > > >is in decline", he stated, concluding that eventually the
> market will
> > > > >sort
> > > > >out the winners and losers".
> > > > >
> > > > >After his remarks, EV World asked Mr. Pickens if he agrees
> with
> > > > >Houston-based investment banker Matthew Simmons that Saudi
> Arabia's oil
> > > > >fields may be on the verge of decline and he replied that he
> did agree
> > > > >him.
> > > > >
> > > > >If Pickens and Simmons are correct, then Crown Prince
> Abdullah's
> > > > >promises
> > > > >to raise production over the next ten years to 15 million
> barrels a day
> > > > >may
> > > > >be just wishful thinking, in which case, Saudi Arabia's role
> as swing
> > > > >producer and oil price stabilizer may be a thing of the past.
> Oil
> > >prices
> > > > >
> > > > >will begin to experience unprecedented volatility, which is
> likely to
> > > > >place
> > > > >serious stresses on a world largely unprepared for the end of
> cheap
> > > > >fossil
> > > > >fuels. The road from here on will be a bumpy one."
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At 04:40 AM 6/16/2005, you wrote:
> > > > >mikes got it right..randy
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: Mike Hohnstein
> > > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 7:27 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] A little of subject but
> > >something of
> > > > > interest
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > That's all good but the real problem is the lack of
> refining
> > >capacity
> > > > > in this country. The "not in my back yard" syndrome is the
> problem
> > > > > there, not to mention restrictive regulations meant to save
> the
> > >world or
> > > > > something.
> > > > > Mike Hohnstein
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: DAY8293A@C...
> > > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 11:53 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] A little of subject but
> > >something of
> > > > > interest
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 55 MAY BE GOOD FOR OUR COACHES, BUT THE BIG
> RIGS USE
> > > > > MORE FUEL
> > > > > GOING 55. I HAD A 4 SPEED CHEVY VEGA SET UP WITH A
> HIGHWAY
> > >SPEED
> > > > > (70 MPH)
> > > > > REAR END, AND WAS GETTING 30 MPG. MUCH MORE THAN WHEN I
> BOUGHT IT.
> > > > > WHEN PRESIDENT "JIMMAY" LOWERED THE SPEED LIMIT TO
> 55 MPH, I
> > > > > COULD NO
> > > > > LONGER MAKE IT UP HILLS IN FOURTH GEAR, AND HAD TO DOWN
> SHIFT TO
> > > > > THIRD,,, JUST
> > > > > LIKE THE BIG TRUCKS HAD TO DO,,, AND DOWN WENT MY FUEL
> MILEAGE !!!
> > > > > IT HELPS SOME VEHICLES TO GO SLOW, AND OTHERS CAN
> CRUISE
> > >AT HIGHER
> > > > > SPEEDS AND DO BETTER. I CAN GET 30 MPG IN MY CORVETTE
> AT 70
> > >MPH. (I
> > > > > USED TO GET
> > > > > 36 MPG IN MY 93 VETTE)
> > > > > I THINK PEOPLE WILL SLOW DOWN TO SAVE GAS IF IT
> WORKS FOR
> > >THEIR
> > > > > VEHICLE,,, I KNOW I SLOW DOWN,,, WE DON'T NEED THE GOV'T
> ON
> > >OUR CASE
> > > > > ANYMORE.
> > > > > WHAT WE DO NEED IS TO LIFT THE NICKLE A GALLON FUEL
> TAX
> > >THAT "SLICK
> > > > > WILLY" PUT ON FUEL WHEN HE WAS IN OFFICE,,,, DAY, IN JAX
> FLA
> > > > > ,,,,83PT-40,,,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >----------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------
> > > -----
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> > > group/WanderlodgeForum/
> > > > >
> > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> > > > > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
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> > > > > Service.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >----------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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> > > group/WanderlodgeForum/
> > > > >
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> > >of Service.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >----------
> > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > > > *
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> >
> ><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/>http://groups.yahoo
> .com/group/WanderlodgeForum/
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > *
> > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > *
> > > > >
> > > > subject=Unsubscribe>WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
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> > > > > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> > > >
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> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >

[erniecarpet@...]

I heard that the closed military bases would be a good location for a
refineries. ernie-83pt40- currently in Goodland, Ks


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[erniecarpet@...]

Hank, its good to have you back in the USA! ernie-83pt40 in kansas


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[DAY8293A@...]

I HAD A 93 VETTE THAT WOULD GET 36 MPG,,, WISH I HAD KEPT IT. I MADE
THE MISTAKE OF TRADING IT IN ON A NEW C5 VETTE,, AND THE BEST IT WILL GET IS
30 MPG. MY SORRY PT CRUISER WILL ONLY GET AROUND 25 MPG, AND IT HAS A PUNY 95
HP 4 CYLINDER,, AND THE VETTE HAS A 345 HP V8,,, WHAT'S WITH THAT??? I
JUST WISH I COULD GET 6 MPG WITH MY 83 PT-40,,,,,, DAY IN JAX FL


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[randydupree]

works for me! randydupree93wb
----- Original Message -----
From: erniecarpet@...
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: A little of subject but something of
interest


I heard that the closed military bases would be a good location for a
refineries. ernie-83pt40- currently in Goodland, Ks


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Blair]

Randy,
84 million barrels pumped daily, refinery's capacity world wide is
84 million barrels....
If you can't produce more, which they can't, why build more refineries?
The Saudis are pumping over a million gallons of sea water into their
largest field to help
force more oil out at the pump.....the problem is that 30% of pumped
material is water....

Blair in Oregon



At 04:17 PM 6/16/2005, you wrote:
>works for me! randydupree93wb
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: erniecarpet@...
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 7:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: A little of subject but something
> of interest
>
>
> I heard that the closed military bases would be a good location for a
> refineries. ernie-83pt40- currently in Goodland, Ks
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
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>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[randydupree]

i didnt know that they were pumping all they could pump! seems weird that they
are still building gas stations...randydupree93wb
----- Original Message -----
From: Blair
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: A little of subject but something of
interest


Randy,
84 million barrels pumped daily, refinery's capacity world wide is
84 million barrels....
If you can't produce more, which they can't, why build more refineries?
The Saudis are pumping over a million gallons of sea water into their
largest field to help
force more oil out at the pump.....the problem is that 30% of pumped
material is water....

Blair in Oregon



At 04:17 PM 6/16/2005, you wrote:
>works for me! randydupree93wb
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: erniecarpet@...
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 7:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: A little of subject but something
> of interest
>
>
> I heard that the closed military bases would be a good location for a
> refineries. ernie-83pt40- currently in Goodland, Ks
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

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