Air Valve Leak

[cmillsap]

(05-28-2013 20:50)davidmbrady Wrote:  Yup, that's what I thought it costs Chuck, six hundred bucks. It is a custom manifold, a PIAB vacuum pump, two solenoid controlled pneumatic switches and a pressure regulator, and it's well done, compact, and innovative. It's rich but it's probably worth it.

Does your current system have a vacuum mechanism to draw air out of the seal?

Yes, It is the seperate manifold that the bad Schrader valve is on. The key energizes the Schrader valve and expells the air that is in the seal out into the bay.

I really didn't want to extend the slide to repair the top trim piece until I had the deflation of the seal working properly for fear of damaging or tearing the seal/bladder.

[davidbrady]

(05-28-2013 22:18)cmillsap Wrote:  Yes, It is the seperate manifold that the bad Schrader valve is on. The key energizes the Schrader valve and expells the air that is in the seal out into the bay.

Yup, that's what I was getting at Chuck. The style manifold that you have doesn't generate a negative pressure to suck the air out of the seal. Instead the air evacuates under the seal pressure blowing out to ambient. In the new style HWH manifold, the one that I have, there's an air driven PIAB vacuum pump (no moving parts) that creates a negative pressure less than ambient to actually draw the air out of the seal. It's neat to see work. When the air is truly sucked out of the seal the seal tucks itself way into the retaining channel creating a ton of clearance for the side body to move.

[cmillsap]

David,

I had Dan at Parliament looking for the valve. He was having a hard time finding that valve as it was obsolete. So I started looking for the valve at HWH or possibly changing the whole slide seal manifolds to the vacuum/pressure manifold you told me about. Joe (HWH) called me about a week after I had several conversations with the HWH parts dept. He said they had no idea what the valve was and agreed that replacing the whole manifold was their only option. Sooo, I bought the pressure/vacuum manifold from him. About an hour later UPS delivered the valve from Parliament. I was surprised as I wasn't aware that Dan had found a replacement. He knew I needed it and overnighted it to me.

Soooo, now I have two ways to fix the slide air control. The repair shop needed to open the slide. Soooo, I took the valve to them, they installed it and opened the slide and began the repair. I'll replace the old system with the new system myself later. I just needed to get the work going and finished so I can get my bus out of the repair shop. I can't afford for it to remain there much longer.: Everyday we find something that needs "fixin"

I must tell you, we (Tela & I) did inspect this bus as best we could while it was pouring rain in Fl. But there are just some things that get overlooked. If I had to do it over again, the price I paid would have been reduced about $10K due to items that need to be fixed to get the bus back to proper condition again. Lesson Learned: Never buy a bus during a rainstorm. Actually, I bought the bus at a good price, so I can afford to spend a little on it to get it in good shape.

So Far, new shocks, drive axle outer wheel seal replaced, tag inner wheel seal replaced, new seal kit on the S60 oil cooler (I thought it was a rear main leaking initially), anti-sway bar removed, new PTO & Pump, Brakes & slack adjuster repaired, alignment, new muffler, and two windshield chips repaired. All this besides the slide trim piece repair along with repairing (rust under loose paint along the bottom trim piece) and repainting the lower and upper portion of the slide room. Did I mention installing a battery watering system also.

[davidbrady]

Chuck, I never have any issue spending money on my LXi. It's like one of my children; if it's in need it gets! I think you're the same way! LOL

I agree and appreciate all the repairs you're doing. The only thing I might point out is that the entire slide body from the inner skeleton to the outer skin is aluminum. So the bubbling that you're seeing has likely been there close to the bus's entire life and it may have more to do with the initial paint prep. I'd like to talk to your mechanics about the oil cooler seal kit on the S60. Mine started to leak and it looks like a bear to get to. I imagine they may need to take the bedroom apart to get to the engine hatch, which isn't a big deal especially if you have a center isle bed arrangement, but they need to be clean or you may arrive to find some greasy surprises on the inside of your coach. How far away is the repair facility? Have you been there on occasion to monitor the progress. Oh, to have an on-board camera to send an image up to WaGu from time to time... wait, I'm working on that!

BTW, do you know how old the slide seal is, or when it was last replaced?

[encantotom]

hi guys,

i am following this one with interest. some of the newell guys have installed a vacuum pump to suck the air out of the slide seal. it is a much more inexpensive option. newell went away from hwh slides a year or so after my 02 that has the hydraulic hwh. they went to an electric/ball bearing valid slide mechanism. far few issues.

i think we all take a deep breath and hope the slide goes in our out ok everytime we use them.

tom

[cmillsap]

(06-07-2013 09:26)davidmbrady Wrote:  Chuck, I never have any issue spending money on my LXi. It's like one of my children; if it's in need it gets! I think you're the same way! LOL

I agree and appreciate all the repairs you're doing. The only thing I might point out is that the entire slide body from the inner skeleton to the outer skin is aluminum. So the bubbling that you're seeing has likely been there close to the bus's entire life and it may have more to do with the initial paint prep. I'd like to talk to your mechanics about the oil cooler seal kit on the S60. Mine started to leak and it looks like a bear to get to. I imagine they may need to take the bedroom apart to get to the engine hatch, which isn't a big deal especially if you have a center isle bed arrangement, but they need to be clean or you may arrive to find some greasy surprises on the inside of your coach. How far away is the repair facility? Have you been there on occasion to monitor the progress. Oh, to have an on-board camera to send an image up to WaGu from time to time... wait, I'm working on that!

BTW, do you know how old the slide seal is, or when it was last replaced?

David,

Thank you for reminding me that the slide body is aluminum (not steel). The body shop assumed there was rust under the bubbled paint that they had to deal with and the quote included that. I'm on my way to the bus this morning and will access what is required to repair the leak at the oil cooler. They and I had initially diagnosed the oil leak as the S60 rear seal but once they got it steam cleaned, they realized the leak was at the oil cooler. The estimate (labor) to replace the rear seal was $645 with the seal costing $149. I will see today whether the oil cooler repair will cost more or less and how they intend to access it.

It appears (so far) that they maintain a real clean facility and have work habits to match. I see no greassy uniforms and they completely covered the bus floor to prevent tracking dirt & grease into it.

I do watch them pretty closely by ariving unannounced every couple of days and go over the costs for anything new they have found that needs repair before I let them fix it.

I haven't got a price on the labor & parts yet to upgrade the PTO. I expect to do that today. Would you like to venture a guess? Their labor rates are not cheap at $129/hr which can add up to a large sum pretty quickly if not controlled.

[davidbrady]

Take a magnet with you Chuck and show them that it's aluminum.

The issue with the oil cooler is access. If you could walk right up to the engine it would take maybe 30 minutes to replace the o-rings. I had a good look at my bus to see what needs to be removed to gain access. I figure they'll need to remove the engine hatch in the bedroom floor and possibly remove the turbo from there. Underneath they'll need to disassemble the shrouding that covers the base of the radiator and remove the lower radiator tube which means dumping the coolant. At this point I think there should be adequate access to get to the 5 or so bolts that hold the cooler housing to the engine block. The cooler housing also has a silicon heater hose tap which I believe is connected to the Aquahot loop. It also has the 120VAC block heater attached to it. Then there's the possibility that one or more of the bolts holding the cooler to the engine block are frozen resulting in a snapped bolt. Then everything needs to be buttoned back up. A five hour estimate sounds about right.

As far as replacing the PTO/Pump assembly, I think you're looking at around 5 hours there too.

[pgchin]

Chuck,
I agree with David, the PTO and Pump hours should be about 5-6. As for the PTO and Pump, last years prices were around 6-7-800 (one was a 100 bucks more than the other) a piece if you order them yourselves,plus shipping. Be careful here, shops like to charge "list" which will really drive the parts prices up. You can get the PTO from truck pro, order from the home base in Missouri and Chelsea will direct ship it to you in 3-5 days. The Pump you can get from Williams and Williams and takes about 3 weeks for the factory to "build" and ship it to you direct. Filters and oil you can get locally as well as the tranny lines for the PTO and wet sump. Part numbers in Davids first post on the PTO thread. FWIW it's been my habit that if I can't do it myself, I bring my own parts and negotiate the labor.........

[davidbrady]

Pete's absolutely right. It pays to shop around. You should be able to buy the PTO and Pump combo for $1500 (plus or minus). I can dig out some suppliers if you need them.

On an aside. Once upon a time a measured all the square tubing that makes up the slideout body and added in all the sheet aluminum and ran the numbers to calculate the weight of the slideout room body. I then compared this weight to the steel wall it replaces. Guess what, the weights are virtually identical. Add to this the fact that we get most of the hydraulic system for free (because it's piggybacked onto the HWH jack system) and we've just blown a big hole in the argument that slides in Blue Bird Wanderlodges add considerable weight. This is yet another reason why I think a slide equipped Wanderlodge doesn't need a steer axle anti-sway bar any less than a slide free Wanderlodge.

[cmillsap]

David & Pete,

Thank you for the information above. It is greatly appreciated.

Don Bradner recommended the repair shop I am using which is Redlands Truck & RV in Redlands, CA. He had previous experience with them and was taking his M380 there to have his toad brake installed on the Bus.

I have to say that after near two weeks of getting to know the staff and their work ethics; I am quite comfortable with their qualifications & expertise. They specialize in chassis repair altho they can and will do work on issues peculiar to the other portions of an RV, coach, bus or whatever but prefer the chassis work.

The're easy to work with and from what I've seen so far; they are professional and capable and have been in business for over 40 years. The facility is full of RVs and they stay busy year around.

David, I asked about access to the oil cooler. They are certain they can remove & repair it without going through the hatch. When they get it removed they will clean it and inspect it for cracks before just installing it with the new gaskets. He still didn't have the costs compiled but assured me that installing the new gaskets and O-rings on the oil cooler was less costly than replacing the S60 crankshaft rear seal. I looked at the gasket kit, it consisted of the main gasket about 6"X 12" in size and a few yellow O-rings.

I've changed the original work order several times on him and he hasn't got it totaly revised yet. When I get the cost; I'll post it for you.
I also reduced the slide repair and repaint job to just straighting the trim piece and re-installing it with Sikaflex and bananna rivets to cover the elongated original screw holes. Once the banana rivets are installed they will flatten the heads as much as possible. Incidentally, they think that the trim piece was worked loose first over a period of time and finally just high enough for the C-channel to push and distort it??

Pete,

They just ordered the Chelsea Part number: 328591-129X, which will arive Tuesday. they have not been able to find the 1"-15T Quality Control Corp Pump (CPC 1049 CPC 030-R-2-AF-BC) yet and I did advise him to look at Williams & Williams. I hope I don't have to wait 3 weeks to get one.

Unless I misunderstand, those are the only two items needed to make this changeover??