refrigerator problems

[Tim Hannink]

Sorry just two more things :>)

#1 --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:

> But to set the record straight I did not accuse you of
> disseminating false information.

My mistake, you actually wrote that I the information I was
providing wasn't true, and that I was "quoting the energy star
propoganda"; at least thats how I read it.

> > Tim that would be nice if it were true but its not. You are
> > quoting the energy star propoganda.

I think I see the difference, maybe I need a couple more beers. :>)

The information I provided came from the EnergyGuide sticker for a
GE 9.7 cu ft Refrigerator Freezer. The EnergyStar program is a
different animal.

#2 - I forgot to sign my last post.

Tim Hannink
Goldibox - 1987 Vanagon Camper, Wolfsburg Edition
1981 Bluebird Wanderlodge, FC-33
Winter Park, Florida
http://home.earthlink.net/~tjhannink/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wolfsburg_campers
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FC_wanderlodge
FAVOR website: http://home.earthlink.net/~clubvanagon

[Dan Weaver]

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
>
>
> Now the bottom line and this is my opinion. If I were
> contemplating buying a motorhome such as a Bluebird I would
> immediately shy away from anyone that had a regular household
> refrigerator installed, for two reasons.
>
1. I would figure that the person who had installed it, is attempting
to save money and if they saved money on a refrigerator they might be
doing the same thing on the coaches maintenance.


So anyone putting in a domestic household fridge is a cost cutting
cheap SOB, and his/her Bird is not worth considering because said
owner is thereby cutting corners on every aspect of his/her
coach?????????

[Tom Warner]

Tim if I truly had it, I would relinquish the King of Trivia Crown to
you. Anyone that references the Otter Tail Power Company must know
what he/she is talking about. So my hat is off to you.....you win!

Now for the caveat and I dont know the answer. Will the compressor,
cooling system and insulation of a residential refrigerator take the
banging around that a motorhome will give it and is this the reason
for the RV designs? I notice in a new refrigerator the compressor is
always tied down for shipping.

Tom
1982 Fc35
Vernon Center,NY with just old Niagara Mohawk Power




At 08:09 PM 10/8/2005, you wrote:
>OK, I'll bite. My replys will be interspaced between your comments
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
>wrote:
> >
> > Tim its difficult to understand where you are coming from since
>you
> > use numbers like 750 watts and 1/3 of the time etc but don't say
> > where you got this information from.
>
><<http://www.psnh.com/Residential/ReduceBi...eusage.asp>http://www.psnh\
.com/Residential/ReduceBill/Applianceusage.asp>
><http://www.otpco.com/SaveEnergyMoney/app...yUsage.asp>
><<http://www.city.ames.ia.us/ElectricWeb/e...iances.htm>http://www.ci\
ty.ames.ia.us/ElectricWeb/energyguy/appliances.htm>
>
>Those were three that came up in a Yahoo!Search for 'Appliance
>Energy Usage'
>
> > But to set the record straight
> > I did not accuse you of disseminating false information.
> >
> > So lets discuss just 2 facts.
> >
> > 1. The energy guide numbers noted on appliances are seldom
> > accurate. Where do I get
> that? <http://tinyurl.com/8fd8z>http://tinyurl.com/8fd8z
> >
> > Understand the Energy Guide and Energy Star labels. The Energy
> > Guide tag you'll see on dishwashers is meant to show how much
>water
> > and energy a particular model is likely to use. However, Consumer
> > Reports tests have found that those numbers tend to underestimate
> > real-life consumption. Likely reason for this discrepancy: The
> > government tests with cleaner dishes than we do and assumes that
> > consumers run fewer than 322 loads per year. The Energy Star
>labeling
> > program cites dishwashers that are 25 percent more energy
>efficient
> > than the minimum government standards. Consumer Reports doesn't
> > highlight which models carry the Energy Star label but bases its
> > dishwasher ratings on its own, more rigorous testing. See the
> >
>
<<http://www.eco-labels.org/greenconsumers/ratings.cfm?>http://www.eco-labels.or\
g/greenconsumers/ratings.cfm?
>product=dishwasher>Green
> > Ratings section.
>
>Hmmm, dishwashers vs refrigerators. I went to the refrigerator
>section of that same website and didn't see the same opinion on
>their ratings for refrigerators. Did I miss something?
>
> > 2. Almost all refrigerators manufactured today ARE energy star
>rated.
>
>That may (or may not) be true, but the GE model I found that most
>closely matched the one we were talking about was here:
>
><<http://products.geappliances.com/ProdCon...ispatcher?>http://products.geap\
pliances.com/ProdContent/Dispatcher?
>REQUEST=ITEMID&itemid=310805_gms10aar_c2>
>
>The EnergyGuide sticker is here:
><<http://products.geappliances.com/ProdCon...ispatcher?>http://products.geap\
pliances.com/ProdContent/Dispatcher?
>REQUEST=ITEMID&itemid=GMS10AAR>
>
>No EnergyStar qualification here.
>
> > Where did I get that from?
> <http://tinyurl.com/bn2qx>http://tinyurl.com/bn2qx
>
>This link wouldn't work for me. Here is a link to the Energy Star
>website <<http://www.energystar.gov/>http://www.energystar.gov/> and
>a definition of what it
>takes to have an refrigerator Energy Star Qualified.
>
>Just for fun, I went to the GE website <http://www.geappliances.com> and
>did a little research.
>
>Out of 140 side-by-side refrigerators, 87 are Energy Star Qualified
>Out of 6 side-by-side built-in refrigerators, 6 are Energy Star
>Qualified
>Out of 90 top freezer refrigerators, 25 are Energy Star Qualified
>Out of 43 bottom freezer refrigerators, 37 are Energy Star Qualified
>None of the 7 compact or the 2 partial and manual defrost
>refrigerators are Energy Star Qualified.
>
>I guess it depends on your definition of "almost all"
>
> > Energy Star
> > According to the government, As of January 1, 2004, all
>refrigerators
> > and refrigerator-freezers 7.75 cubic feet or greater in volume
>must
> > be 15% more efficient than required by the minimum federal
>standard
> > in order to meet the Energy Star criteria. Residential freezers
>7.75
> > cubic feet or greater must be 10% more efficient than required by
>the
> > minimum federal standard in order to meet the Energy Star
>criteria.
> > All refrigerators and/or freezers less than 7.75 cubic feet in
>volume
> > and 36 inches or less in height must be 20% more efficient than
> > required by the minimum federal standard in order to meet the
>Energy
> > Star criteria .
> >
> > Now the bottom line and this is my opinion. If I were
> > contemplating buying a motorhome such as a Bluebird I would
> > immediately shy away from anyone that had a regular household
> > refrigerator installed, for two reasons.
> >
> > 1. I would figure that the person who had installed it, is
>attempting
> > to save money and if they saved money on a refrigerator they might
>be
> > doing the same thing on the coaches maintenance.
>
>I can think of a lot of other items I would look at before the
>refrigerator to determine the maintenance level of the coach. Mine
>actually came with a 12-VDC marine fridge (NovaKool) which will run
>for a week on my aux. batteries. It performs well as a refrigerator
>but marginally as a freezer. It uses a 12-vdc Danforth compressor
>and R-134a.
>
>My personal experiences with Dometic 3-way refrigerators (especially
>the propane-way) has not been positive (VW Campers). The two-way
>Dometic (12VDC/120VAC) in my current Camper is excellent.
>
> > 2, I want a refrigerator that is economical and efficient to
>operate
> > when boon docking. In other words I want one that can be operated
>on
> > propane, battery or 120VAC without running my generator for long
> > periods of time. And the addition of large expensive battery banks
> > with associated chargers/inverters is not economical or desirous
>in
> > my opinion. But then this is my personal preference and it may
>differ
> > from yours.
>
>True, my coach already has separate house and chassis batteries; I
>have added battery isolation and an inverter/charger. The primary
>reason was to run the rear roof air without running the genset.
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[Tom Warner]

Dan you are being a little harsh arent you in interpreting what I
said in such a negative way? I would just look a little closer at
some things if I were thinking of buying a coach with a residential
refrigerator in it. But for sure I would deduct the price of a
regular RV refrigerator since I would install a new one.

Tom
1982 FC35
Vernon Center,NY

At 08:49 PM 10/8/2005, you wrote:
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
>wrote:
> >
> >
> > Now the bottom line and this is my opinion. If I were
> > contemplating buying a motorhome such as a Bluebird I would
> > immediately shy away from anyone that had a regular household
> > refrigerator installed, for two reasons.
> >
>1. I would figure that the person who had installed it, is attempting
>to save money and if they saved money on a refrigerator they might be
>doing the same thing on the coaches maintenance.
>
>
>So anyone putting in a domestic household fridge is a cost cutting
>cheap SOB, and his/her Bird is not worth considering because said
>owner is thereby cutting corners on every aspect of his/her
>coach?????????

[Tom Warner]

At 08:47 PM 10/8/2005, you wrote:
>Sorry just two more things :>)
Tim I forgot something to. Looked at the pictures of your
Westphalia and its beautiful. NOthing like German engineering. You
have done a beautiful job on it. Who could ever tell it has over
200,000 miles on it?

tom
1982 FC35
Vernon Center,NY

[mbulriss]

Well, I tried to stay clear of this one figuring that as Ralph said
it's really based on your needs. Lots of expensive all electric buses
out there.

In any event, I read this post from Julia Bonser who wrote:
>
> We replaced our refrigerator last month with an apartment sized
> refrigerator figuring we would run the generator if we dry camped.
> This unit uses a lot less electricity than the RV one.

Julie, I am curious as to how you measured the electricity usage on
the old and new refrigerators? Is there some meter I am not paying
attention to? Always looking to learn something else about the Birds.....

Thanks,
Mike Bulriss
83 PT40 "Stagecoach" - For Sale
91 PT40 "Texas Minivan"
San Antonio, TX





--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Julia Bonser wrote:
>
> We replaced our refrigerator last month with an apartment sized
> refrigerator figuring we would run the generator if we dry camped.
> This unit uses a lot less electricity than the RV one. The biggest
> problem was getting it in through the front door.
>
> Julie Bonser
> 1992 WLWB PT 40'
>
>
>
> On Oct 7, 2005, at 7:02 PM, Rob Robinson wrote:
>
> > Thanks Ernie. that's the info I needed.
> > Rob, Sue & Merlin
> > 94 WLWB
> >
> >
> > Quoting erniecarpet@a...:
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Rob, its 120 volt- no problem with the batteries. we don't dry
> >> camp, so no
> >>
> >> problem for us. If its hot out, we run the genny for the a/c's
> >> anyway.
> >> Ernie-
> >>
> >> 83pt40- beside the yellowstone river
> >>
> >
>

[Tim Hannink]

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
>
> Tim if I truly had it, I would relinquish the King of Trivia Crown
to
> you. Anyone that references the Otter Tail Power Company must know
> what he/she is talking about. So my hat is off to you.....you win!

I had meant to link directly to the Department of Energy information
that some of these sites reference, but had some trouble finding it.
Here it is:
<http://www.eere.energy.gov/consumer/your...ndex.cfm/m
ytopic=10040>

> Now for the caveat and I dont know the answer. Will the
compressor,
> cooling system and insulation of a residential refrigerator take
the
> banging around that a motorhome will give it and is this the
reason
> for the RV designs? I notice in a new refrigerator the compressor
is
> always tied down for shipping.

The only info I can offer in regard to this is one of personal
observation. The mounting of the compressor in my marine fridge
looks the same as a normal refrigerator; the feet that are part of
the compressor frame connect to the frame of the refrigerator with
rubber isolation bushings. I honestly expected a more sophisticated
mounting system for something that will endure the punishment that a
boat will see in high seas.

Thanks,

Tim Hannink
Winter Park, FL
1981 FC-33SB

[Julia Bonser]

Ernie what do you use to keep the refrigerator doors closed while you
are driving?
We forgot about that feature as our new apartment refrigerator only
has the magnetic strip to hold the door closed.

Julie Bonser
1992 WLWB PT 40'



On Oct 8, 2005, at 7:14 AM, erniecarpet@... wrote:

> We secured my refer by screwing it to the floor and by adjusting
> the top
> shelf to fit tightly. The sidewalls were measured and adjusted so
> that we made a
> real tight fit. This unit made it fine from Texas to Montana- 1650
> miles-
> over the "best" highways in the country!

[Julia Bonser]

I didn't measure the usage. I read the chart on the refrigerator and
also checked what happened when we had the coach plugged in to a 30
amp circuit. We had usually put the Dometic refrigerator on propane
when we used 30 amp service as a lot of CG's have poor (low) voltage.
This cut down on the circuit popping when too many appliances
demanded electricity. We calculated that the new refrigerator had
less draw because of the type of refrigerator it is. We also
monitored the ammeter gauges on the front panel which show a lower
amperage draw with the new refrigerator.

We have had two refrigerators go out on us so we thought a regular
refrigerator should last longer. We were not happy to have a
relatively new refrigerator have it's cooling unit go out.

Julie Bonser
1992 WLWB PT 40'
Madison, WI this week for Dr. appointments. Bird still in Washington
State.


On Oct 9, 2005, at 10:11 AM, mbulriss wrote:

> Well, I tried to stay clear of this one figuring that as Ralph said
> it's really based on your needs. Lots of expensive all electric buses
> out there.
>
> In any event, I read this post from Julia Bonser who wrote:
>
>>
>> We replaced our refrigerator last month with an apartment sized
>> refrigerator figuring we would run the generator if we dry camped.
>> This unit uses a lot less electricity than the RV one.
>>
>
> Julie, I am curious as to how you measured the electricity usage on
> the old and new refrigerators? Is there some meter I am not paying
> attention to? Always looking to learn something else about the
> Birds.....
>

[erniecarpet@...]

So far have been lucky. Might have to put a bungee cord on it if I buy a
bunch of groceries. Ernie- 83pt40 in montana


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