Cost of ownership

[Leroy Eckert]

Mike:

I agree with you. When we purchased our bird we planned for deferred
maintenance. I guess if we knew the costs of owning these beautiful machines up
front we could become consultants and charge $200.00/hr. Then we could be sued
for misrepresentation. It's a crazy world.

Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40
Niceville, FL





----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Hohnstein
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership


Uh, you sure a new class C wouldn't be a better choice? Trying to see the
future with an antique vehicle is very irrational.
MH
----- Original Message -----
From: gcyeaw
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 11:54 AM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership

James,
Thanks for your data. There seems to be some controversy over the
level 2 maintenance cost, but based on an average speed of say 30
mph, that's 60,000 miles in 2000 hours. So if it's $800 or $1200
it's not much different spread out over that mileage/time. Not
knowing the cost of adding a swing radiator, it would seem to pay
for itself on the first broken belt or hose. I imagine that removing
the dog house and putting down a protective runner before heading in
for service might also save some labor and probably please the
service tech as well.

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "orbitalsolutions"
wrote:
>
> Gardner, here are some actual maintence costs for the model
of 'Bird
> that you are looking for.
>
> If you take the 'Bird to an authorized Cat Center for oil and
filter
> changes it will cost $280.00 -- This will include all of your oil
> and fuel filters, a complete chassie lube and Cat brand motor
oil.
> Of course they do all the work, you watch them and start the bus
> when needed.
>
> Here are the parts cost:
>
> 16 Qts. 15/40 Cat -- $34.40
>
> 2 - 1R-0713 -------- $11.20
>
> 1 - 1P-0808 -------- $2.46
>
> 1 - 1R-0750 -------- $11.88
>
> 1 - 8N9803 --------- $20.10
>
> Total parts cost is $80.04 -- so, you can save two hundered bucks
> here if you do it yourself. This is a once a year task for most
> folks.
>
> Tires, every five years between $2200 and $3000 depending on Tire
> Brand.
>
> Cat PM level 2 Maintainence -- every 2000 hours or 10.000 gallons
of
> fuel -- Costs $790 at a certified Cat Center and includes
> everything. This service also includes the above listed oil,
filter
> and lube service.
>
> 1) All new hoses and belts
>
> 2) Performance Analysis report
>
> 3) Steam clean engine
>
> 4) Valve lash adjustment
>
> 5) cooling system service (flush and clean)
>
> That is pretty much your ongoing maintenience stuff. You can also
> figure on a transmission service every thirty thousand miles with
a
> new filter and fluid for about $175.00 including labor.
>
> That's the stuff you can count on doing and what it actually
costs.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
> James
> 78FC33SB "Old School"
> Orange Lake, FL
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "orbitalsolutions"
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello, Gardner.
> >
> > The biggest factor in the cost of ownership of a 25 year old, or
> > older 'Bird, lies in the condition of the bus that you buy.
> >
> > Remember we are talking about older buses here and no two are
the
> > same. You will find "project buses" on the market that may need
> > everything replaced on them from the motor and electronics to
the
> > fridge and carpet ect. However, from time to time, a very nice
> > highly updated example will be offered for sale that will need
> next
> > to nothing.
> >
> > Obviously the cost of ownership will be much higher on
a "project
> > bus" than on a Cheery example with newer motor and everything
else
> > in the bus having been already updated and in good working order.
> >
> > I guess my point is to buy your bus wisely! The project bus at
a
> > rock bottom price that needs everying replaced will not be your
> best
> > value. Rather, find a bus that has had on-going care by folks
who
> > were enthusiastic owners.
> >
> > Take my bus for example ... the motor is about 4 years old with
> > 15,000 miles on it. At the time the motor was replaced so were
> all
> > pumps, fan assembly even the main started motor. All belts and
> > hoses are two years old. Trojan batteries less than a year
old.
> > Twin 55 amp Iota charges less than a year old. Xantrex pure
sine-
> > wave inverter less than a year old. High deffenition Direct TV
> > system less than a yera old. 27" Samsung LCD TV less than a
year
> > old. Refridgerator about 4 years old. AC units about 3 years
> old.
> > Roof deck rebedded, refastened and painted less than a year
ago.
> > Polished Aluminum wheels that you can comb your hair in. New
> carpet
> > about 2 years ago. I could go on and on, but you get my point.
> >
> > If I were to sell my bus tomorrow I could get around 25 to 27
> > thousand.
> >
> > Now think about that "project bus" that has been sitting behind
a
> > barn for 8 years before someone pulled it out, polished it up
and
> > hung a for sale sign on it. These are two very different
pictures
> > arn't they? Certainly you would experience a very different
cost
> of
> > ownewship betweeen the above examples. Now you may be able to
buy
> > the project bus for 16 thousand bucks, but get ready to spend
that
> > much again, and more, to make it into a good looking reliable
> runner.
> >
> > So shop wisely, and buy the best bus you can find in your price
> > range.
> >
> > Good Luck.
> >
> >
> > James
> > 78FC33SB "Old School"
> > Orange Lake, FL (Mid-Eightys, total over cast and raining)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "gcyeaw"
wrote:
> > >
> > > I have asked other questions on this forum and I do
appreciate
> > the
> > > responses I have received. I have been building a spreadsheet
to
> > try
> > > to estimate the real cost of owning a vintage Bluebird. I love
> the
> > > look and would enjoy repairing/restoring the systems at my
> leisure
> > > prior to retirement.
> > > The price range I am looking at is under $30,000 for a 1984
> or
> > > older FC 33 TO 35. Given that price range I would expect to
have
> > > lots of small things to fix. Also given the age, I would
expect
> > > higher incidence of failure in in basic engine/transmit
> > ion/chassis
> > > systems over say, a 10 year time span..
> > >
> > > Would it be reasonable to estimate $700/year for routine
> > > maintenance and $1000/year for unplanned maintenance averaged
> over
> > a
> > > ten year time span? (assuming I don't need an engine rebuild)
> > >
> > > I am really trying to determine the value as the clock
ticks
> on
> > > 20 to 25 year old coaches. They may be well built, but so was
I
> 40
> > > years ago!
> > >
> > > Gardner
> > >
> >
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Curt Sprenger]

Gardner,

Here is what I spent doing a swing radiator on the 1974 FC31. I did as
much of the work as I could. I cut the radiator mounting plate, welded
the hinges, etc. $66.00 for hinges/nuts/bolt/washers, etc. for swing
radiator and swing down pumper. $280 to rod out, test, modify the
radiator. $233.27 for hoses/clamps (top/lower/pump, etc.). $105.22 for
new belts. $197.32 for new transmission cooler hoses (this may not be
needed). This adds up to $882.31 total cost for the swing radiator
project. A shop charging $2,000 seems reasonable.

The swing radiator project is not that bad. If you are handy, can cut
the radiator mounting plate or have someone cut it, can weld or have a
friend that welds (about 15 minutes of work at most to modify the
mounting plate) you can do this project. I spent very few hours of
actual work, about 30 hours of head scratching, chasing radiator tune up
& mod., hoses, other parts.

See http://www.6url.com/0TZP Go down to the last entry, Swing.htm, for
a write up on the swing radiator project.

Curt Sprenger 1987 PT38, Anaheim Hills, Calif.



gcyeaw wrote:

> There is an entry in the files section under Swing Radiator. It
> puts the cost between 1 and 2 thousand dollars. It isn't as easy as
> it sounds according to the file.
> Gardner
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> , "orbitalsolutions"
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Tom. You are right on the money about the swing radiator! I
> > consider it a must have on an FC. I don't know how much it costs
> to
> > do the conversion but I know it isn't cheap. I'm sure someone here
> > can tell us how much to have it done, or how costly if you can do
> it
> > yourself. In fact, Blue Bird made them standard equipment
> somewhere
> > along the line, not sure when. This is an excellent example of
> how
> > you will have a lower cost of ownership depending if you buy a bus
> > with or without a swing-out radiator.
> >
> >
> > James
> > 78FC33SB "Old School"
> > Orange Lake, FL
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> , Tom Warner
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Remember that having a swing radiator will have an impact on the
> > > price as will having to remove the doghouse to check the valve
> > lash.
> > >
> > > Tom Warner
> > > Vernon Center,NY
> > > 1985 PT 40
> > >
> > > At 11:31 PM 7/7/2006, you wrote:
> > >
> > > >Bruce, I was quoted $790.00 by Cashman Cat in Las Vegas NV
> where
> > I was
> > > >a repeat customer. Of course, Cat franchises are independently
> > owned
> > > >and operated. So prices, as well as services offered, will
> vary. I
> > > >suppose different markets may dictate varing prices as well.
> > > >
> > > >In any event, I think a range of $800 to $1100.00 is probably
> > realistic.
> > > >
> > > >When I have a chance I'll get a quote from Ring Power, the Cat
> > place
> > > >here in central FL, and see what they say. I need to get some
> new
> > Cat
> > > >hats anyway.
> > > >
> > > >James
> > > >78FC33SB "Old School"
> > > >Orange Lake FL
> > > >
> > > >--- In
> > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> > > >"birdshill123"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > James: You must have a bargain Cat dealer. I doubt most
> would
> > do all
> > > > > that work for $790.00 More like $1000 plus. If you figure
> > labor rates
> > > > > of $90.00 (could be higher) just doing the belts and hoses
> > could
> > > > > easily eat up $400 TO $500 . Doesnt leave much for the valve
> > > > > adjustment. They might charge $790 to do this on a
> > conventional truck
> > > > > but not a MH.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bruce: 1988 FC35
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>

[gcyeaw]

Mike, Leroy, I can't disagree that if all I wanted was an RV, then
buying a new or slightly used motorhome would be the way to go. When
I saw an older Bluebird, it just looked so great. It was a true
classic with character and that is the attraction. It certainly
isn't the wisest investment if all you look at is the dollars. There
has to be a return in the enjoyment and satisfaction of caring for
and reviving such a machine.

The reason I ask questions is to make sure I am going in with my
eyes wide open. The more I learn the better I will be able to make a
wise choice when purchasing. And along the way I am meeting new
poeple on the forum, so it's already showing some reward.

Gardner

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
wrote:
>
>
>
> Mike:
>
> I agree with you. When we purchased our bird we planned for
deferred maintenance. I guess if we knew the costs of owning these
beautiful machines up front we could become consultants and charge
$200.00/hr. Then we could be sued for misrepresentation. It's a
crazy world.
>
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990 WB-40
> Niceville, FL
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mike Hohnstein
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 12:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership
>
>
> Uh, you sure a new class C wouldn't be a better choice? Trying
to see the future with an antique vehicle is very irrational.
> MH
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: gcyeaw
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 11:54 AM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership
>
> James,
> Thanks for your data. There seems to be some controversy over
the
> level 2 maintenance cost, but based on an average speed of say
30
> mph, that's 60,000 miles in 2000 hours. So if it's $800 or $1200
> it's not much different spread out over that mileage/time. Not
> knowing the cost of adding a swing radiator, it would seem to
pay
> for itself on the first broken belt or hose. I imagine that
removing
> the dog house and putting down a protective runner before
heading in
> for service might also save some labor and probably please the
> service tech as well.
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "orbitalsolutions"
> wrote:
> >
> > Gardner, here are some actual maintence costs for the model
> of 'Bird
> > that you are looking for.
> >
> > If you take the 'Bird to an authorized Cat Center for oil and
> filter
> > changes it will cost $280.00 -- This will include all of your
oil
> > and fuel filters, a complete chassie lube and Cat brand motor
> oil.
> > Of course they do all the work, you watch them and start the
bus
> > when needed.
> >
> > Here are the parts cost:
> >
> > 16 Qts. 15/40 Cat -- $34.40
> >
> > 2 - 1R-0713 -------- $11.20
> >
> > 1 - 1P-0808 -------- $2.46
> >
> > 1 - 1R-0750 -------- $11.88
> >
> > 1 - 8N9803 --------- $20.10
> >
> > Total parts cost is $80.04 -- so, you can save two hundered
bucks
> > here if you do it yourself. This is a once a year task for
most
> > folks.
> >
> > Tires, every five years between $2200 and $3000 depending on
Tire
> > Brand.
> >
> > Cat PM level 2 Maintainence -- every 2000 hours or 10.000
gallons
> of
> > fuel -- Costs $790 at a certified Cat Center and includes
> > everything. This service also includes the above listed oil,
> filter
> > and lube service.
> >
> > 1) All new hoses and belts
> >
> > 2) Performance Analysis report
> >
> > 3) Steam clean engine
> >
> > 4) Valve lash adjustment
> >
> > 5) cooling system service (flush and clean)
> >
> > That is pretty much your ongoing maintenience stuff. You can
also
> > figure on a transmission service every thirty thousand miles
with
> a
> > new filter and fluid for about $175.00 including labor.
> >
> > That's the stuff you can count on doing and what it actually
> costs.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> >
> > James
> > 78FC33SB "Old School"
> > Orange Lake, FL
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "orbitalsolutions"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello, Gardner.
> > >
> > > The biggest factor in the cost of ownership of a 25 year
old, or
> > > older 'Bird, lies in the condition of the bus that you buy.
> > >
> > > Remember we are talking about older buses here and no two
are
> the
> > > same. You will find "project buses" on the market that may
need
> > > everything replaced on them from the motor and electronics
to
> the
> > > fridge and carpet ect. However, from time to time, a very
nice
> > > highly updated example will be offered for sale that will
need
> > next
> > > to nothing.
> > >
> > > Obviously the cost of ownership will be much higher on
> a "project
> > > bus" than on a Cheery example with newer motor and
everything
> else
> > > in the bus having been already updated and in good working
order.
> > >
> > > I guess my point is to buy your bus wisely! The project bus
at
> a
> > > rock bottom price that needs everying replaced will not be
your
> > best
> > > value. Rather, find a bus that has had on-going care by
folks
> who
> > > were enthusiastic owners.
> > >
> > > Take my bus for example ... the motor is about 4 years old
with
> > > 15,000 miles on it. At the time the motor was replaced so
were
> > all
> > > pumps, fan assembly even the main started motor. All belts
and
> > > hoses are two years old. Trojan batteries less than a year
> old.
> > > Twin 55 amp Iota charges less than a year old. Xantrex pure
> sine-
> > > wave inverter less than a year old. High deffenition Direct
TV
> > > system less than a yera old. 27" Samsung LCD TV less than a
> year
> > > old. Refridgerator about 4 years old. AC units about 3 years
> > old.
> > > Roof deck rebedded, refastened and painted less than a year
> ago.
> > > Polished Aluminum wheels that you can comb your hair in. New
> > carpet
> > > about 2 years ago. I could go on and on, but you get my
point.
> > >
> > > If I were to sell my bus tomorrow I could get around 25 to
27
> > > thousand.
> > >
> > > Now think about that "project bus" that has been sitting
behind
> a
> > > barn for 8 years before someone pulled it out, polished it
up
> and
> > > hung a for sale sign on it. These are two very different
> pictures
> > > arn't they? Certainly you would experience a very different
> cost
> > of
> > > ownewship betweeen the above examples. Now you may be able
to
> buy
> > > the project bus for 16 thousand bucks, but get ready to
spend
> that
> > > much again, and more, to make it into a good looking
reliable
> > runner.
> > >
> > > So shop wisely, and buy the best bus you can find in your
price
> > > range.
> > >
> > > Good Luck.
> > >
> > >
> > > James
> > > 78FC33SB "Old School"
> > > Orange Lake, FL (Mid-Eightys, total over cast and raining)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "gcyeaw"
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have asked other questions on this forum and I do
> appreciate
> > > the
> > > > responses I have received. I have been building a
spreadsheet
> to
> > > try
> > > > to estimate the real cost of owning a vintage Bluebird. I
love
> > the
> > > > look and would enjoy repairing/restoring the systems at my
> > leisure
> > > > prior to retirement.
> > > > The price range I am looking at is under $30,000 for a
1984
> > or
> > > > older FC 33 TO 35. Given that price range I would expect
to
> have
> > > > lots of small things to fix. Also given the age, I would
> expect
> > > > higher incidence of failure in in basic engine/transmit
> > > ion/chassis
> > > > systems over say, a 10 year time span..
> > > >
> > > > Would it be reasonable to estimate $700/year for routine
> > > > maintenance and $1000/year for unplanned maintenance
averaged
> > over
> > > a
> > > > ten year time span? (assuming I don't need an engine
rebuild)
> > > >
> > > > I am really trying to determine the value as the clock
> ticks
> > on
> > > > 20 to 25 year old coaches. They may be well built, but so
was
> I
> > 40
> > > > years ago!
> > > >
> > > > Gardner
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Mike Hohnstein]

Consider this; fresh reman 3208T in my FC, 4000 miles later injection pump quits
on the Pennsy Turnpike, towing, days in the motel, stress, around 4000 dollars.
The engine remanufacturer wouldn't stand behind the pump, and it wasn't worth
fighting over. Those are the things that might or might not happen with any RV,
but the cost are always more on a bird and truck shops HATE them. Make sure you
have great credit.
MH
----- Original Message -----
From: gcyeaw
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 7:47 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership


Mike, Leroy, I can't disagree that if all I wanted was an RV, then
buying a new or slightly used motorhome would be the way to go. When
I saw an older Bluebird, it just looked so great. It was a true
classic with character and that is the attraction. It certainly
isn't the wisest investment if all you look at is the dollars. There
has to be a return in the enjoyment and satisfaction of caring for
and reviving such a machine.

The reason I ask questions is to make sure I am going in with my
eyes wide open. The more I learn the better I will be able to make a
wise choice when purchasing. And along the way I am meeting new
poeple on the forum, so it's already showing some reward.

Gardner

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
wrote:
>
>
>
> Mike:
>
> I agree with you. When we purchased our bird we planned for
deferred maintenance. I guess if we knew the costs of owning these
beautiful machines up front we could become consultants and charge
$200.00/hr. Then we could be sued for misrepresentation. It's a
crazy world.
>
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990 WB-40
> Niceville, FL
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mike Hohnstein
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 12:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership
>
>
> Uh, you sure a new class C wouldn't be a better choice? Trying
to see the future with an antique vehicle is very irrational.
> MH
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: gcyeaw
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 11:54 AM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership
>
> James,
> Thanks for your data. There seems to be some controversy over
the
> level 2 maintenance cost, but based on an average speed of say
30
> mph, that's 60,000 miles in 2000 hours. So if it's $800 or $1200
> it's not much different spread out over that mileage/time. Not
> knowing the cost of adding a swing radiator, it would seem to
pay
> for itself on the first broken belt or hose. I imagine that
removing
> the dog house and putting down a protective runner before
heading in
> for service might also save some labor and probably please the
> service tech as well.
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "orbitalsolutions"
> wrote:
> >
> > Gardner, here are some actual maintence costs for the model
> of 'Bird
> > that you are looking for.
> >
> > If you take the 'Bird to an authorized Cat Center for oil and
> filter
> > changes it will cost $280.00 -- This will include all of your
oil
> > and fuel filters, a complete chassie lube and Cat brand motor
> oil.
> > Of course they do all the work, you watch them and start the
bus
> > when needed.
> >
> > Here are the parts cost:
> >
> > 16 Qts. 15/40 Cat -- $34.40
> >
> > 2 - 1R-0713 -------- $11.20
> >
> > 1 - 1P-0808 -------- $2.46
> >
> > 1 - 1R-0750 -------- $11.88
> >
> > 1 - 8N9803 --------- $20.10
> >
> > Total parts cost is $80.04 -- so, you can save two hundered
bucks
> > here if you do it yourself. This is a once a year task for
most
> > folks.
> >
> > Tires, every five years between $2200 and $3000 depending on
Tire
> > Brand.
> >
> > Cat PM level 2 Maintainence -- every 2000 hours or 10.000
gallons
> of
> > fuel -- Costs $790 at a certified Cat Center and includes
> > everything. This service also includes the above listed oil,
> filter
> > and lube service.
> >
> > 1) All new hoses and belts
> >
> > 2) Performance Analysis report
> >
> > 3) Steam clean engine
> >
> > 4) Valve lash adjustment
> >
> > 5) cooling system service (flush and clean)
> >
> > That is pretty much your ongoing maintenience stuff. You can
also
> > figure on a transmission service every thirty thousand miles
with
> a
> > new filter and fluid for about $175.00 including labor.
> >
> > That's the stuff you can count on doing and what it actually
> costs.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> >
> > James
> > 78FC33SB "Old School"
> > Orange Lake, FL
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "orbitalsolutions"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello, Gardner.
> > >
> > > The biggest factor in the cost of ownership of a 25 year
old, or
> > > older 'Bird, lies in the condition of the bus that you buy.
> > >
> > > Remember we are talking about older buses here and no two
are
> the
> > > same. You will find "project buses" on the market that may
need
> > > everything replaced on them from the motor and electronics
to
> the
> > > fridge and carpet ect. However, from time to time, a very
nice
> > > highly updated example will be offered for sale that will
need
> > next
> > > to nothing.
> > >
> > > Obviously the cost of ownership will be much higher on
> a "project
> > > bus" than on a Cheery example with newer motor and
everything
> else
> > > in the bus having been already updated and in good working
order.
> > >
> > > I guess my point is to buy your bus wisely! The project bus
at
> a
> > > rock bottom price that needs everying replaced will not be
your
> > best
> > > value. Rather, find a bus that has had on-going care by
folks
> who
> > > were enthusiastic owners.
> > >
> > > Take my bus for example ... the motor is about 4 years old
with
> > > 15,000 miles on it. At the time the motor was replaced so
were
> > all
> > > pumps, fan assembly even the main started motor. All belts
and
> > > hoses are two years old. Trojan batteries less than a year
> old.
> > > Twin 55 amp Iota charges less than a year old. Xantrex pure
> sine-
> > > wave inverter less than a year old. High deffenition Direct
TV
> > > system less than a yera old. 27" Samsung LCD TV less than a
> year
> > > old. Refridgerator about 4 years old. AC units about 3 years
> > old.
> > > Roof deck rebedded, refastened and painted less than a year
> ago.
> > > Polished Aluminum wheels that you can comb your hair in. New
> > carpet
> > > about 2 years ago. I could go on and on, but you get my
point.
> > >
> > > If I were to sell my bus tomorrow I could get around 25 to
27
> > > thousand.
> > >
> > > Now think about that "project bus" that has been sitting
behind
> a
> > > barn for 8 years before someone pulled it out, polished it
up
> and
> > > hung a for sale sign on it. These are two very different
> pictures
> > > arn't they? Certainly you would experience a very different
> cost
> > of
> > > ownewship betweeen the above examples. Now you may be able
to
> buy
> > > the project bus for 16 thousand bucks, but get ready to
spend
> that
> > > much again, and more, to make it into a good looking
reliable
> > runner.
> > >
> > > So shop wisely, and buy the best bus you can find in your
price
> > > range.
> > >
> > > Good Luck.
> > >
> > >
> > > James
> > > 78FC33SB "Old School"
> > > Orange Lake, FL (Mid-Eightys, total over cast and raining)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "gcyeaw"
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have asked other questions on this forum and I do
> appreciate
> > > the
> > > > responses I have received. I have been building a
spreadsheet
> to
> > > try
> > > > to estimate the real cost of owning a vintage Bluebird. I
love
> > the
> > > > look and would enjoy repairing/restoring the systems at my
> > leisure
> > > > prior to retirement.
> > > > The price range I am looking at is under $30,000 for a
1984
> > or
> > > > older FC 33 TO 35. Given that price range I would expect
to
> have
> > > > lots of small things to fix. Also given the age, I would
> expect
> > > > higher incidence of failure in in basic engine/transmit
> > > ion/chassis
> > > > systems over say, a 10 year time span..
> > > >
> > > > Would it be reasonable to estimate $700/year for routine
> > > > maintenance and $1000/year for unplanned maintenance
averaged
> > over
> > > a
> > > > ten year time span? (assuming I don't need an engine
rebuild)
> > > >
> > > > I am really trying to determine the value as the clock
> ticks
> > on
> > > > 20 to 25 year old coaches. They may be well built, but so
was
> I
> > 40
> > > > years ago!
> > > >
> > > > Gardner
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Leroy Eckert]

Curt:

One of these days I'm driving the Bird to CA. I gotta see what you are doing.
You are like myself, just like to tinker with stuff.

Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40
Niceville, FL.



----- Original Message -----
From: Curt Sprenger
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership


Gardner,

Here is what I spent doing a swing radiator on the 1974 FC31. I did as
much of the work as I could. I cut the radiator mounting plate, welded
the hinges, etc. $66.00 for hinges/nuts/bolt/washers, etc. for swing
radiator and swing down pumper. $280 to rod out, test, modify the
radiator. $233.27 for hoses/clamps (top/lower/pump, etc.). $105.22 for
new belts. $197.32 for new transmission cooler hoses (this may not be
needed). This adds up to $882.31 total cost for the swing radiator
project. A shop charging $2,000 seems reasonable.

The swing radiator project is not that bad. If you are handy, can cut
the radiator mounting plate or have someone cut it, can weld or have a
friend that welds (about 15 minutes of work at most to modify the
mounting plate) you can do this project. I spent very few hours of
actual work, about 30 hours of head scratching, chasing radiator tune up
& mod., hoses, other parts.

See http://www.6url.com/0TZP Go down to the last entry, Swing.htm, for
a write up on the swing radiator project.

Curt Sprenger 1987 PT38, Anaheim Hills, Calif.

gcyeaw wrote:

> There is an entry in the files section under Swing Radiator. It
> puts the cost between 1 and 2 thousand dollars. It isn't as easy as
> it sounds according to the file.
> Gardner
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> , "orbitalsolutions"
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, Tom. You are right on the money about the swing radiator! I
> > consider it a must have on an FC. I don't know how much it costs
> to
> > do the conversion but I know it isn't cheap. I'm sure someone here
> > can tell us how much to have it done, or how costly if you can do
> it
> > yourself. In fact, Blue Bird made them standard equipment
> somewhere
> > along the line, not sure when. This is an excellent example of
> how
> > you will have a lower cost of ownership depending if you buy a bus
> > with or without a swing-out radiator.
> >
> >
> > James
> > 78FC33SB "Old School"
> > Orange Lake, FL
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> , Tom Warner
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Remember that having a swing radiator will have an impact on the
> > > price as will having to remove the doghouse to check the valve
> > lash.
> > >
> > > Tom Warner
> > > Vernon Center,NY
> > > 1985 PT 40
> > >
> > > At 11:31 PM 7/7/2006, you wrote:
> > >
> > > >Bruce, I was quoted $790.00 by Cashman Cat in Las Vegas NV
> where
> > I was
> > > >a repeat customer. Of course, Cat franchises are independently
> > owned
> > > >and operated. So prices, as well as services offered, will
> vary. I
> > > >suppose different markets may dictate varing prices as well.
> > > >
> > > >In any event, I think a range of $800 to $1100.00 is probably
> > realistic.
> > > >
> > > >When I have a chance I'll get a quote from Ring Power, the Cat
> > place
> > > >here in central FL, and see what they say. I need to get some
> new
> > Cat
> > > >hats anyway.
> > > >
> > > >James
> > > >78FC33SB "Old School"
> > > >Orange Lake FL
> > > >
> > > >--- In
> > > > > > 40yahoogroups.com>WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> ,
> > > >"birdshill123"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > James: You must have a bargain Cat dealer. I doubt most
> would
> > do all
> > > > > that work for $790.00 More like $1000 plus. If you figure
> > labor rates
> > > > > of $90.00 (could be higher) just doing the belts and hoses
> > could
> > > > > easily eat up $400 TO $500 . Doesnt leave much for the valve
> > > > > adjustment. They might charge $790 to do this on a
> > conventional truck
> > > > > but not a MH.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bruce: 1988 FC35
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[gcyeaw]

Mike, My brother lives in Pennsylvania, so I could stay there, and
every bank in the world is trying to give me a credit card, so I
guess I'm in good shape!

(couldn't resist, sorry)

Gardner
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
<MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote:
>
> Consider this; fresh reman 3208T in my FC, 4000 miles later
injection pump quits on the Pennsy Turnpike, towing, days in the
motel, stress, around 4000 dollars. The engine remanufacturer
wouldn't stand behind the pump, and it wasn't worth fighting over.
Those are the things that might or might not happen with any RV, but
the cost are always more on a bird and truck shops HATE them. Make
sure you have great credit.
> MH
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: gcyeaw
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 7:47 PM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership
>
>
> Mike, Leroy, I can't disagree that if all I wanted was an RV,
then
> buying a new or slightly used motorhome would be the way to go.
When
> I saw an older Bluebird, it just looked so great. It was a true
> classic with character and that is the attraction. It certainly
> isn't the wisest investment if all you look at is the dollars.
There
> has to be a return in the enjoyment and satisfaction of caring
for
> and reviving such a machine.
>
> The reason I ask questions is to make sure I am going in with my
> eyes wide open. The more I learn the better I will be able to
make a
> wise choice when purchasing. And along the way I am meeting new
> poeple on the forum, so it's already showing some reward.
>
> Gardner
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike:
> >
> > I agree with you. When we purchased our bird we planned for
> deferred maintenance. I guess if we knew the costs of owning
these
> beautiful machines up front we could become consultants and
charge
> $200.00/hr. Then we could be sued for misrepresentation. It's a
> crazy world.
> >
> > Leroy Eckert
> > 1990 WB-40
> > Niceville, FL
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Mike Hohnstein
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 12:49 PM
> > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership
> >
> >
> > Uh, you sure a new class C wouldn't be a better choice? Trying
> to see the future with an antique vehicle is very irrational.
> > MH
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: gcyeaw
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 11:54 AM
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership
> >
> > James,
> > Thanks for your data. There seems to be some controversy over
> the
> > level 2 maintenance cost, but based on an average speed of say
> 30
> > mph, that's 60,000 miles in 2000 hours. So if it's $800 or
$1200
> > it's not much different spread out over that mileage/time. Not
> > knowing the cost of adding a swing radiator, it would seem to
> pay
> > for itself on the first broken belt or hose. I imagine that
> removing
> > the dog house and putting down a protective runner before
> heading in
> > for service might also save some labor and probably please the
> > service tech as well.
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "orbitalsolutions"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Gardner, here are some actual maintence costs for the model
> > of 'Bird
> > > that you are looking for.
> > >
> > > If you take the 'Bird to an authorized Cat Center for oil
and
> > filter
> > > changes it will cost $280.00 -- This will include all of
your
> oil
> > > and fuel filters, a complete chassie lube and Cat brand
motor
> > oil.
> > > Of course they do all the work, you watch them and start the
> bus
> > > when needed.
> > >
> > > Here are the parts cost:
> > >
> > > 16 Qts. 15/40 Cat -- $34.40
> > >
> > > 2 - 1R-0713 -------- $11.20
> > >
> > > 1 - 1P-0808 -------- $2.46
> > >
> > > 1 - 1R-0750 -------- $11.88
> > >
> > > 1 - 8N9803 --------- $20.10
> > >
> > > Total parts cost is $80.04 -- so, you can save two hundered
> bucks
> > > here if you do it yourself. This is a once a year task for
> most
> > > folks.
> > >
> > > Tires, every five years between $2200 and $3000 depending on
> Tire
> > > Brand.
> > >
> > > Cat PM level 2 Maintainence -- every 2000 hours or 10.000
> gallons
> > of
> > > fuel -- Costs $790 at a certified Cat Center and includes
> > > everything. This service also includes the above listed oil,
> > filter
> > > and lube service.
> > >
> > > 1) All new hoses and belts
> > >
> > > 2) Performance Analysis report
> > >
> > > 3) Steam clean engine
> > >
> > > 4) Valve lash adjustment
> > >
> > > 5) cooling system service (flush and clean)
> > >
> > > That is pretty much your ongoing maintenience stuff. You can
> also
> > > figure on a transmission service every thirty thousand miles
> with
> > a
> > > new filter and fluid for about $175.00 including labor.
> > >
> > > That's the stuff you can count on doing and what it actually
> > costs.
> > >
> > > Hope this helps.
> > >
> > >
> > > James
> > > 78FC33SB "Old School"
> > > Orange Lake, FL
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "orbitalsolutions"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello, Gardner.
> > > >
> > > > The biggest factor in the cost of ownership of a 25 year
> old, or
> > > > older 'Bird, lies in the condition of the bus that you buy.
> > > >
> > > > Remember we are talking about older buses here and no two
> are
> > the
> > > > same. You will find "project buses" on the market that may
> need
> > > > everything replaced on them from the motor and electronics
> to
> > the
> > > > fridge and carpet ect. However, from time to time, a very
> nice
> > > > highly updated example will be offered for sale that will
> need
> > > next
> > > > to nothing.
> > > >
> > > > Obviously the cost of ownership will be much higher on
> > a "project
> > > > bus" than on a Cheery example with newer motor and
> everything
> > else
> > > > in the bus having been already updated and in good working
> order.
> > > >
> > > > I guess my point is to buy your bus wisely! The project
bus
> at
> > a
> > > > rock bottom price that needs everying replaced will not be
> your
> > > best
> > > > value. Rather, find a bus that has had on-going care by
> folks
> > who
> > > > were enthusiastic owners.
> > > >
> > > > Take my bus for example ... the motor is about 4 years old
> with
> > > > 15,000 miles on it. At the time the motor was replaced so
> were
> > > all
> > > > pumps, fan assembly even the main started motor. All belts
> and
> > > > hoses are two years old. Trojan batteries less than a year
> > old.
> > > > Twin 55 amp Iota charges less than a year old. Xantrex
pure
> > sine-
> > > > wave inverter less than a year old. High deffenition
Direct
> TV
> > > > system less than a yera old. 27" Samsung LCD TV less than
a
> > year
> > > > old. Refridgerator about 4 years old. AC units about 3
years
> > > old.
> > > > Roof deck rebedded, refastened and painted less than a
year
> > ago.
> > > > Polished Aluminum wheels that you can comb your hair in.
New
> > > carpet
> > > > about 2 years ago. I could go on and on, but you get my
> point.
> > > >
> > > > If I were to sell my bus tomorrow I could get around 25 to
> 27
> > > > thousand.
> > > >
> > > > Now think about that "project bus" that has been sitting
> behind
> > a
> > > > barn for 8 years before someone pulled it out, polished it
> up
> > and
> > > > hung a for sale sign on it. These are two very different
> > pictures
> > > > arn't they? Certainly you would experience a very
different
> > cost
> > > of
> > > > ownewship betweeen the above examples. Now you may be able
> to
> > buy
> > > > the project bus for 16 thousand bucks, but get ready to
> spend
> > that
> > > > much again, and more, to make it into a good looking
> reliable
> > > runner.
> > > >
> > > > So shop wisely, and buy the best bus you can find in your
> price
> > > > range.
> > > >
> > > > Good Luck.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > James
> > > > 78FC33SB "Old School"
> > > > Orange Lake, FL (Mid-Eightys, total over cast and raining)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "gcyeaw"

> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I have asked other questions on this forum and I do
> > appreciate
> > > > the
> > > > > responses I have received. I have been building a
> spreadsheet
> > to
> > > > try
> > > > > to estimate the real cost of owning a vintage Bluebird.
I
> love
> > > the
> > > > > look and would enjoy repairing/restoring the systems at
my
> > > leisure
> > > > > prior to retirement.
> > > > > The price range I am looking at is under $30,000 for a
> 1984
> > > or
> > > > > older FC 33 TO 35. Given that price range I would expect
> to
> > have
> > > > > lots of small things to fix. Also given the age, I would
> > expect
> > > > > higher incidence of failure in in basic engine/transmit
> > > > ion/chassis
> > > > > systems over say, a 10 year time span..
> > > > >
> > > > > Would it be reasonable to estimate $700/year for routine
> > > > > maintenance and $1000/year for unplanned maintenance
> averaged
> > > over
> > > > a
> > > > > ten year time span? (assuming I don't need an engine
> rebuild)
> > > > >
> > > > > I am really trying to determine the value as the clock
> > ticks
> > > on
> > > > > 20 to 25 year old coaches. They may be well built, but
so
> was
> > I
> > > 40
> > > > > years ago!
> > > > >
> > > > > Gardner
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Leroy Eckert]

Well Gardner:

Come on man, jump on in with the rest of us. You will be happy you purchased the
ol school bus. Just look for the best physical specimen before you buy.

Side note----the wife wanted a Prevost. She said the Bluebird looked like a
school bus. I said, you have traveled many a mile in a school bus and you are
still here. Now---I cannot get her out of the thing.

You will love a Bird. It is a lifestyle.

Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40
Niceville, FL





----- Original Message -----
From: gcyeaw
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 7:47 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership


Mike, Leroy, I can't disagree that if all I wanted was an RV, then
buying a new or slightly used motorhome would be the way to go. When
I saw an older Bluebird, it just looked so great. It was a true
classic with character and that is the attraction. It certainly
isn't the wisest investment if all you look at is the dollars. There
has to be a return in the enjoyment and satisfaction of caring for
and reviving such a machine.

The reason I ask questions is to make sure I am going in with my
eyes wide open. The more I learn the better I will be able to make a
wise choice when purchasing. And along the way I am meeting new
poeple on the forum, so it's already showing some reward.

Gardner

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
wrote:
>
>
>
> Mike:
>
> I agree with you. When we purchased our bird we planned for
deferred maintenance. I guess if we knew the costs of owning these
beautiful machines up front we could become consultants and charge
$200.00/hr. Then we could be sued for misrepresentation. It's a
crazy world.
>
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990 WB-40
> Niceville, FL
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mike Hohnstein
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 12:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership
>
>
> Uh, you sure a new class C wouldn't be a better choice? Trying
to see the future with an antique vehicle is very irrational.
> MH
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: gcyeaw
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 11:54 AM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership
>
> James,
> Thanks for your data. There seems to be some controversy over
the
> level 2 maintenance cost, but based on an average speed of say
30
> mph, that's 60,000 miles in 2000 hours. So if it's $800 or $1200
> it's not much different spread out over that mileage/time. Not
> knowing the cost of adding a swing radiator, it would seem to
pay
> for itself on the first broken belt or hose. I imagine that
removing
> the dog house and putting down a protective runner before
heading in
> for service might also save some labor and probably please the
> service tech as well.
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "orbitalsolutions"
> wrote:
> >
> > Gardner, here are some actual maintence costs for the model
> of 'Bird
> > that you are looking for.
> >
> > If you take the 'Bird to an authorized Cat Center for oil and
> filter
> > changes it will cost $280.00 -- This will include all of your
oil
> > and fuel filters, a complete chassie lube and Cat brand motor
> oil.
> > Of course they do all the work, you watch them and start the
bus
> > when needed.
> >
> > Here are the parts cost:
> >
> > 16 Qts. 15/40 Cat -- $34.40
> >
> > 2 - 1R-0713 -------- $11.20
> >
> > 1 - 1P-0808 -------- $2.46
> >
> > 1 - 1R-0750 -------- $11.88
> >
> > 1 - 8N9803 --------- $20.10
> >
> > Total parts cost is $80.04 -- so, you can save two hundered
bucks
> > here if you do it yourself. This is a once a year task for
most
> > folks.
> >
> > Tires, every five years between $2200 and $3000 depending on
Tire
> > Brand.
> >
> > Cat PM level 2 Maintainence -- every 2000 hours or 10.000
gallons
> of
> > fuel -- Costs $790 at a certified Cat Center and includes
> > everything. This service also includes the above listed oil,
> filter
> > and lube service.
> >
> > 1) All new hoses and belts
> >
> > 2) Performance Analysis report
> >
> > 3) Steam clean engine
> >
> > 4) Valve lash adjustment
> >
> > 5) cooling system service (flush and clean)
> >
> > That is pretty much your ongoing maintenience stuff. You can
also
> > figure on a transmission service every thirty thousand miles
with
> a
> > new filter and fluid for about $175.00 including labor.
> >
> > That's the stuff you can count on doing and what it actually
> costs.
> >
> > Hope this helps.
> >
> >
> > James
> > 78FC33SB "Old School"
> > Orange Lake, FL
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "orbitalsolutions"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello, Gardner.
> > >
> > > The biggest factor in the cost of ownership of a 25 year
old, or
> > > older 'Bird, lies in the condition of the bus that you buy.
> > >
> > > Remember we are talking about older buses here and no two
are
> the
> > > same. You will find "project buses" on the market that may
need
> > > everything replaced on them from the motor and electronics
to
> the
> > > fridge and carpet ect. However, from time to time, a very
nice
> > > highly updated example will be offered for sale that will
need
> > next
> > > to nothing.
> > >
> > > Obviously the cost of ownership will be much higher on
> a "project
> > > bus" than on a Cheery example with newer motor and
everything
> else
> > > in the bus having been already updated and in good working
order.
> > >
> > > I guess my point is to buy your bus wisely! The project bus
at
> a
> > > rock bottom price that needs everying replaced will not be
your
> > best
> > > value. Rather, find a bus that has had on-going care by
folks
> who
> > > were enthusiastic owners.
> > >
> > > Take my bus for example ... the motor is about 4 years old
with
> > > 15,000 miles on it. At the time the motor was replaced so
were
> > all
> > > pumps, fan assembly even the main started motor. All belts
and
> > > hoses are two years old. Trojan batteries less than a year
> old.
> > > Twin 55 amp Iota charges less than a year old. Xantrex pure
> sine-
> > > wave inverter less than a year old. High deffenition Direct
TV
> > > system less than a yera old. 27" Samsung LCD TV less than a
> year
> > > old. Refridgerator about 4 years old. AC units about 3 years
> > old.
> > > Roof deck rebedded, refastened and painted less than a year
> ago.
> > > Polished Aluminum wheels that you can comb your hair in. New
> > carpet
> > > about 2 years ago. I could go on and on, but you get my
point.
> > >
> > > If I were to sell my bus tomorrow I could get around 25 to
27
> > > thousand.
> > >
> > > Now think about that "project bus" that has been sitting
behind
> a
> > > barn for 8 years before someone pulled it out, polished it
up
> and
> > > hung a for sale sign on it. These are two very different
> pictures
> > > arn't they? Certainly you would experience a very different
> cost
> > of
> > > ownewship betweeen the above examples. Now you may be able
to
> buy
> > > the project bus for 16 thousand bucks, but get ready to
spend
> that
> > > much again, and more, to make it into a good looking
reliable
> > runner.
> > >
> > > So shop wisely, and buy the best bus you can find in your
price
> > > range.
> > >
> > > Good Luck.
> > >
> > >
> > > James
> > > 78FC33SB "Old School"
> > > Orange Lake, FL (Mid-Eightys, total over cast and raining)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "gcyeaw"
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have asked other questions on this forum and I do
> appreciate
> > > the
> > > > responses I have received. I have been building a
spreadsheet
> to
> > > try
> > > > to estimate the real cost of owning a vintage Bluebird. I
love
> > the
> > > > look and would enjoy repairing/restoring the systems at my
> > leisure
> > > > prior to retirement.
> > > > The price range I am looking at is under $30,000 for a
1984
> > or
> > > > older FC 33 TO 35. Given that price range I would expect
to
> have
> > > > lots of small things to fix. Also given the age, I would
> expect
> > > > higher incidence of failure in in basic engine/transmit
> > > ion/chassis
> > > > systems over say, a 10 year time span..
> > > >
> > > > Would it be reasonable to estimate $700/year for routine
> > > > maintenance and $1000/year for unplanned maintenance
averaged
> > over
> > > a
> > > > ten year time span? (assuming I don't need an engine
rebuild)
> > > >
> > > > I am really trying to determine the value as the clock
> ticks
> > on
> > > > 20 to 25 year old coaches. They may be well built, but so
was
> I
> > 40
> > > > years ago!
> > > >
> > > > Gardner
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[gcyeaw]

Leroy,
I have a lot of work to do before I can get the DW to weigh in on
the plan. Oh,I could probably go ahead and do it on my own, but then
I would become a 'full timer", alone, with half my income.

You know the old expression about divorce.
When you are married you get up in the morning, leave the house
and kiss your wife good by.
When you get divorced, you get up in the morning, leave your wife
and kiss your house good by!

Gardner
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
wrote:
>
>
>
> Well Gardner:
>
> Come on man, jump on in with the rest of us. You will be happy you
purchased the ol school bus. Just look for the best physical
specimen before you buy.
>
> Side note----the wife wanted a Prevost. She said the Bluebird
looked like a school bus. I said, you have traveled many a mile in
a school bus and you are still here. Now---I cannot get her out of
the thing.
>
> You will love a Bird. It is a lifestyle.
>
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990 WB-40
> Niceville, FL
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: gcyeaw
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 7:47 PM
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership
>
>
> Mike, Leroy, I can't disagree that if all I wanted was an RV,
then
> buying a new or slightly used motorhome would be the way to go.
When
> I saw an older Bluebird, it just looked so great. It was a true
> classic with character and that is the attraction. It certainly
> isn't the wisest investment if all you look at is the dollars.
There
> has to be a return in the enjoyment and satisfaction of caring
for
> and reviving such a machine.
>
> The reason I ask questions is to make sure I am going in with my
> eyes wide open. The more I learn the better I will be able to
make a
> wise choice when purchasing. And along the way I am meeting new
> poeple on the forum, so it's already showing some reward.
>
> Gardner
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike:
> >
> > I agree with you. When we purchased our bird we planned for
> deferred maintenance. I guess if we knew the costs of owning
these
> beautiful machines up front we could become consultants and
charge
> $200.00/hr. Then we could be sued for misrepresentation. It's a
> crazy world.
> >
> > Leroy Eckert
> > 1990 WB-40
> > Niceville, FL
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Mike Hohnstein
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 12:49 PM
> > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership
> >
> >
> > Uh, you sure a new class C wouldn't be a better choice? Trying
> to see the future with an antique vehicle is very irrational.
> > MH
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: gcyeaw
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 11:54 AM
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership
> >
> > James,
> > Thanks for your data. There seems to be some controversy over
> the
> > level 2 maintenance cost, but based on an average speed of say
> 30
> > mph, that's 60,000 miles in 2000 hours. So if it's $800 or
$1200
> > it's not much different spread out over that mileage/time. Not
> > knowing the cost of adding a swing radiator, it would seem to
> pay
> > for itself on the first broken belt or hose. I imagine that
> removing
> > the dog house and putting down a protective runner before
> heading in
> > for service might also save some labor and probably please the
> > service tech as well.
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "orbitalsolutions"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Gardner, here are some actual maintence costs for the model
> > of 'Bird
> > > that you are looking for.
> > >
> > > If you take the 'Bird to an authorized Cat Center for oil
and
> > filter
> > > changes it will cost $280.00 -- This will include all of
your
> oil
> > > and fuel filters, a complete chassie lube and Cat brand
motor
> > oil.
> > > Of course they do all the work, you watch them and start the
> bus
> > > when needed.
> > >
> > > Here are the parts cost:
> > >
> > > 16 Qts. 15/40 Cat -- $34.40
> > >
> > > 2 - 1R-0713 -------- $11.20
> > >
> > > 1 - 1P-0808 -------- $2.46
> > >
> > > 1 - 1R-0750 -------- $11.88
> > >
> > > 1 - 8N9803 --------- $20.10
> > >
> > > Total parts cost is $80.04 -- so, you can save two hundered
> bucks
> > > here if you do it yourself. This is a once a year task for
> most
> > > folks.
> > >
> > > Tires, every five years between $2200 and $3000 depending on
> Tire
> > > Brand.
> > >
> > > Cat PM level 2 Maintainence -- every 2000 hours or 10.000
> gallons
> > of
> > > fuel -- Costs $790 at a certified Cat Center and includes
> > > everything. This service also includes the above listed oil,
> > filter
> > > and lube service.
> > >
> > > 1) All new hoses and belts
> > >
> > > 2) Performance Analysis report
> > >
> > > 3) Steam clean engine
> > >
> > > 4) Valve lash adjustment
> > >
> > > 5) cooling system service (flush and clean)
> > >
> > > That is pretty much your ongoing maintenience stuff. You can
> also
> > > figure on a transmission service every thirty thousand miles
> with
> > a
> > > new filter and fluid for about $175.00 including labor.
> > >
> > > That's the stuff you can count on doing and what it actually
> > costs.
> > >
> > > Hope this helps.
> > >
> > >
> > > James
> > > 78FC33SB "Old School"
> > > Orange Lake, FL
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "orbitalsolutions"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello, Gardner.
> > > >
> > > > The biggest factor in the cost of ownership of a 25 year
> old, or
> > > > older 'Bird, lies in the condition of the bus that you buy.
> > > >
> > > > Remember we are talking about older buses here and no two
> are
> > the
> > > > same. You will find "project buses" on the market that may
> need
> > > > everything replaced on them from the motor and electronics
> to
> > the
> > > > fridge and carpet ect. However, from time to time, a very
> nice
> > > > highly updated example will be offered for sale that will
> need
> > > next
> > > > to nothing.
> > > >
> > > > Obviously the cost of ownership will be much higher on
> > a "project
> > > > bus" than on a Cheery example with newer motor and
> everything
> > else
> > > > in the bus having been already updated and in good working
> order.
> > > >
> > > > I guess my point is to buy your bus wisely! The project
bus
> at
> > a
> > > > rock bottom price that needs everying replaced will not be
> your
> > > best
> > > > value. Rather, find a bus that has had on-going care by
> folks
> > who
> > > > were enthusiastic owners.
> > > >
> > > > Take my bus for example ... the motor is about 4 years old
> with
> > > > 15,000 miles on it. At the time the motor was replaced so
> were
> > > all
> > > > pumps, fan assembly even the main started motor. All belts
> and
> > > > hoses are two years old. Trojan batteries less than a year
> > old.
> > > > Twin 55 amp Iota charges less than a year old. Xantrex
pure
> > sine-
> > > > wave inverter less than a year old. High deffenition
Direct
> TV
> > > > system less than a yera old. 27" Samsung LCD TV less than
a
> > year
> > > > old. Refridgerator about 4 years old. AC units about 3
years
> > > old.
> > > > Roof deck rebedded, refastened and painted less than a
year
> > ago.
> > > > Polished Aluminum wheels that you can comb your hair in.
New
> > > carpet
> > > > about 2 years ago. I could go on and on, but you get my
> point.
> > > >
> > > > If I were to sell my bus tomorrow I could get around 25 to
> 27
> > > > thousand.
> > > >
> > > > Now think about that "project bus" that has been sitting
> behind
> > a
> > > > barn for 8 years before someone pulled it out, polished it
> up
> > and
> > > > hung a for sale sign on it. These are two very different
> > pictures
> > > > arn't they? Certainly you would experience a very
different
> > cost
> > > of
> > > > ownewship betweeen the above examples. Now you may be able
> to
> > buy
> > > > the project bus for 16 thousand bucks, but get ready to
> spend
> > that
> > > > much again, and more, to make it into a good looking
> reliable
> > > runner.
> > > >
> > > > So shop wisely, and buy the best bus you can find in your
> price
> > > > range.
> > > >
> > > > Good Luck.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > James
> > > > 78FC33SB "Old School"
> > > > Orange Lake, FL (Mid-Eightys, total over cast and raining)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "gcyeaw"

> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I have asked other questions on this forum and I do
> > appreciate
> > > > the
> > > > > responses I have received. I have been building a
> spreadsheet
> > to
> > > > try
> > > > > to estimate the real cost of owning a vintage Bluebird.
I
> love
> > > the
> > > > > look and would enjoy repairing/restoring the systems at
my
> > > leisure
> > > > > prior to retirement.
> > > > > The price range I am looking at is under $30,000 for a
> 1984
> > > or
> > > > > older FC 33 TO 35. Given that price range I would expect
> to
> > have
> > > > > lots of small things to fix. Also given the age, I would
> > expect
> > > > > higher incidence of failure in in basic engine/transmit
> > > > ion/chassis
> > > > > systems over say, a 10 year time span..
> > > > >
> > > > > Would it be reasonable to estimate $700/year for routine
> > > > > maintenance and $1000/year for unplanned maintenance
> averaged
> > > over
> > > > a
> > > > > ten year time span? (assuming I don't need an engine
> rebuild)
> > > > >
> > > > > I am really trying to determine the value as the clock
> > ticks
> > > on
> > > > > 20 to 25 year old coaches. They may be well built, but
so
> was
> > I
> > > 40
> > > > > years ago!
> > > > >
> > > > > Gardner
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[jwasnewski]

-Yes sir I understand. I have been there. In my case the wife was
the driving force to buy a motor home. She didn't think I would like
it---for once she was wrong-----LOL do not wake her up.

Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40
Niceville, FL



-- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "gcyeaw" wrote:
>
> Leroy,
> I have a lot of work to do before I can get the DW to weigh in on
> the plan. Oh,I could probably go ahead and do it on my own, but
then
> I would become a 'full timer", alone, with half my income.
>
> You know the old expression about divorce.
> When you are married you get up in the morning, leave the house
> and kiss your wife good by.
> When you get divorced, you get up in the morning, leave your
wife
> and kiss your house good by!
>
> Gardner
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Well Gardner:
> >
> > Come on man, jump on in with the rest of us. You will be happy
you
> purchased the ol school bus. Just look for the best physical
> specimen before you buy.
> >
> > Side note----the wife wanted a Prevost. She said the Bluebird
> looked like a school bus. I said, you have traveled many a mile
in
> a school bus and you are still here. Now---I cannot get her out of
> the thing.
> >
> > You will love a Bird. It is a lifestyle.
> >
> > Leroy Eckert
> > 1990 WB-40
> > Niceville, FL
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: gcyeaw
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 7:47 PM
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership
> >
> >
> > Mike, Leroy, I can't disagree that if all I wanted was an RV,
> then
> > buying a new or slightly used motorhome would be the way to go.
> When
> > I saw an older Bluebird, it just looked so great. It was a true
> > classic with character and that is the attraction. It certainly
> > isn't the wisest investment if all you look at is the dollars.
> There
> > has to be a return in the enjoyment and satisfaction of caring
> for
> > and reviving such a machine.
> >
> > The reason I ask questions is to make sure I am going in with
my
> > eyes wide open. The more I learn the better I will be able to
> make a
> > wise choice when purchasing. And along the way I am meeting new
> > poeple on the forum, so it's already showing some reward.
> >
> > Gardner
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike:
> > >
> > > I agree with you. When we purchased our bird we planned for
> > deferred maintenance. I guess if we knew the costs of owning
> these
> > beautiful machines up front we could become consultants and
> charge
> > $200.00/hr. Then we could be sued for misrepresentation. It's a
> > crazy world.
> > >
> > > Leroy Eckert
> > > 1990 WB-40
> > > Niceville, FL
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Mike Hohnstein
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 12:49 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership
> > >
> > >
> > > Uh, you sure a new class C wouldn't be a better choice?
Trying
> > to see the future with an antique vehicle is very irrational.
> > > MH
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: gcyeaw
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 11:54 AM
> > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership
> > >
> > > James,
> > > Thanks for your data. There seems to be some controversy over
> > the
> > > level 2 maintenance cost, but based on an average speed of
say
> > 30
> > > mph, that's 60,000 miles in 2000 hours. So if it's $800 or
> $1200
> > > it's not much different spread out over that mileage/time.
Not
> > > knowing the cost of adding a swing radiator, it would seem to
> > pay
> > > for itself on the first broken belt or hose. I imagine that
> > removing
> > > the dog house and putting down a protective runner before
> > heading in
> > > for service might also save some labor and probably please
the
> > > service tech as well.
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "orbitalsolutions"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Gardner, here are some actual maintence costs for the model
> > > of 'Bird
> > > > that you are looking for.
> > > >
> > > > If you take the 'Bird to an authorized Cat Center for oil
> and
> > > filter
> > > > changes it will cost $280.00 -- This will include all of
> your
> > oil
> > > > and fuel filters, a complete chassie lube and Cat brand
> motor
> > > oil.
> > > > Of course they do all the work, you watch them and start
the
> > bus
> > > > when needed.
> > > >
> > > > Here are the parts cost:
> > > >
> > > > 16 Qts. 15/40 Cat -- $34.40
> > > >
> > > > 2 - 1R-0713 -------- $11.20
> > > >
> > > > 1 - 1P-0808 -------- $2.46
> > > >
> > > > 1 - 1R-0750 -------- $11.88
> > > >
> > > > 1 - 8N9803 --------- $20.10
> > > >
> > > > Total parts cost is $80.04 -- so, you can save two hundered
> > bucks
> > > > here if you do it yourself. This is a once a year task for
> > most
> > > > folks.
> > > >
> > > > Tires, every five years between $2200 and $3000 depending
on
> > Tire
> > > > Brand.
> > > >
> > > > Cat PM level 2 Maintainence -- every 2000 hours or 10.000
> > gallons
> > > of
> > > > fuel -- Costs $790 at a certified Cat Center and includes
> > > > everything. This service also includes the above listed
oil,
> > > filter
> > > > and lube service.
> > > >
> > > > 1) All new hoses and belts
> > > >
> > > > 2) Performance Analysis report
> > > >
> > > > 3) Steam clean engine
> > > >
> > > > 4) Valve lash adjustment
> > > >
> > > > 5) cooling system service (flush and clean)
> > > >
> > > > That is pretty much your ongoing maintenience stuff. You
can
> > also
> > > > figure on a transmission service every thirty thousand
miles
> > with
> > > a
> > > > new filter and fluid for about $175.00 including labor.
> > > >
> > > > That's the stuff you can count on doing and what it
actually
> > > costs.
> > > >
> > > > Hope this helps.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > James
> > > > 78FC33SB "Old School"
> > > > Orange Lake, FL
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "orbitalsolutions"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello, Gardner.
> > > > >
> > > > > The biggest factor in the cost of ownership of a 25 year
> > old, or
> > > > > older 'Bird, lies in the condition of the bus that you
buy.
> > > > >
> > > > > Remember we are talking about older buses here and no two
> > are
> > > the
> > > > > same. You will find "project buses" on the market that
may
> > need
> > > > > everything replaced on them from the motor and
electronics
> > to
> > > the
> > > > > fridge and carpet ect. However, from time to time, a very
> > nice
> > > > > highly updated example will be offered for sale that will
> > need
> > > > next
> > > > > to nothing.
> > > > >
> > > > > Obviously the cost of ownership will be much higher on
> > > a "project
> > > > > bus" than on a Cheery example with newer motor and
> > everything
> > > else
> > > > > in the bus having been already updated and in good
working
> > order.
> > > > >
> > > > > I guess my point is to buy your bus wisely! The project
> bus
> > at
> > > a
> > > > > rock bottom price that needs everying replaced will not
be
> > your
> > > > best
> > > > > value. Rather, find a bus that has had on-going care by
> > folks
> > > who
> > > > > were enthusiastic owners.
> > > > >
> > > > > Take my bus for example ... the motor is about 4 years
old
> > with
> > > > > 15,000 miles on it. At the time the motor was replaced so
> > were
> > > > all
> > > > > pumps, fan assembly even the main started motor. All
belts
> > and
> > > > > hoses are two years old. Trojan batteries less than a
year
> > > old.
> > > > > Twin 55 amp Iota charges less than a year old. Xantrex
> pure
> > > sine-
> > > > > wave inverter less than a year old. High deffenition
> Direct
> > TV
> > > > > system less than a yera old. 27" Samsung LCD TV less than
> a
> > > year
> > > > > old. Refridgerator about 4 years old. AC units about 3
> years
> > > > old.
> > > > > Roof deck rebedded, refastened and painted less than a
> year
> > > ago.
> > > > > Polished Aluminum wheels that you can comb your hair in.
> New
> > > > carpet
> > > > > about 2 years ago. I could go on and on, but you get my
> > point.
> > > > >
> > > > > If I were to sell my bus tomorrow I could get around 25
to
> > 27
> > > > > thousand.
> > > > >
> > > > > Now think about that "project bus" that has been sitting
> > behind
> > > a
> > > > > barn for 8 years before someone pulled it out, polished
it
> > up
> > > and
> > > > > hung a for sale sign on it. These are two very different
> > > pictures
> > > > > arn't they? Certainly you would experience a very
> different
> > > cost
> > > > of
> > > > > ownewship betweeen the above examples. Now you may be
able
> > to
> > > buy
> > > > > the project bus for 16 thousand bucks, but get ready to
> > spend
> > > that
> > > > > much again, and more, to make it into a good looking
> > reliable
> > > > runner.
> > > > >
> > > > > So shop wisely, and buy the best bus you can find in your
> > price
> > > > > range.
> > > > >
> > > > > Good Luck.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > James
> > > > > 78FC33SB "Old School"
> > > > > Orange Lake, FL (Mid-Eightys, total over cast and raining)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "gcyeaw"
>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have asked other questions on this forum and I do
> > > appreciate
> > > > > the
> > > > > > responses I have received. I have been building a
> > spreadsheet
> > > to
> > > > > try
> > > > > > to estimate the real cost of owning a vintage Bluebird.
> I
> > love
> > > > the
> > > > > > look and would enjoy repairing/restoring the systems at
> my
> > > > leisure
> > > > > > prior to retirement.
> > > > > > The price range I am looking at is under $30,000 for a
> > 1984
> > > > or
> > > > > > older FC 33 TO 35. Given that price range I would
expect
> > to
> > > have
> > > > > > lots of small things to fix. Also given the age, I
would
> > > expect
> > > > > > higher incidence of failure in in basic engine/transmit
> > > > > ion/chassis
> > > > > > systems over say, a 10 year time span..
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Would it be reasonable to estimate $700/year for
routine
> > > > > > maintenance and $1000/year for unplanned maintenance
> > averaged
> > > > over
> > > > > a
> > > > > > ten year time span? (assuming I don't need an engine
> > rebuild)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am really trying to determine the value as the clock
> > > ticks
> > > > on
> > > > > > 20 to 25 year old coaches. They may be well built, but
> so
> > was
> > > I
> > > > 40
> > > > > > years ago!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Gardner
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

[gcyeaw]

Leroy,
I am at the stage where I must rent a motorhome and 'see if we
like it'. This is a tough sell because the first trip is almost sure
to be a disaster unless I do a tremendous amount of homework and
pick the right campgrounds and the right MH etc.etc. Too bad there
aren't any Bluebirds on the rental scene.
Gardner


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "jwasnewski"
wrote:
>
> -Yes sir I understand. I have been there. In my case the wife was
> the driving force to buy a motor home. She didn't think I would
like
> it---for once she was wrong-----LOL please
> do not wake her up.
>
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990 WB-40
> Niceville, FL
>
>
>
> -- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "gcyeaw" wrote:
> >
> > Leroy,
> > I have a lot of work to do before I can get the DW to weigh in
on
> > the plan. Oh,I could probably go ahead and do it on my own, but
> then
> > I would become a 'full timer", alone, with half my income.
> >
> > You know the old expression about divorce.
> > When you are married you get up in the morning, leave the
house
> > and kiss your wife good by.
> > When you get divorced, you get up in the morning, leave your
> wife
> > and kiss your house good by!
> >
> > Gardner
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Well Gardner:
> > >
> > > Come on man, jump on in with the rest of us. You will be happy
> you
> > purchased the ol school bus. Just look for the best physical
> > specimen before you buy.
> > >
> > > Side note----the wife wanted a Prevost. She said the Bluebird
> > looked like a school bus. I said, you have traveled many a
mile
> in
> > a school bus and you are still here. Now---I cannot get her out
of
> > the thing.
> > >
> > > You will love a Bird. It is a lifestyle.
> > >
> > > Leroy Eckert
> > > 1990 WB-40
> > > Niceville, FL
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: gcyeaw
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 7:47 PM
> > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike, Leroy, I can't disagree that if all I wanted was an
RV,
> > then
> > > buying a new or slightly used motorhome would be the way to
go.
> > When
> > > I saw an older Bluebird, it just looked so great. It was a
true
> > > classic with character and that is the attraction. It
certainly
> > > isn't the wisest investment if all you look at is the
dollars.
> > There
> > > has to be a return in the enjoyment and satisfaction of
caring
> > for
> > > and reviving such a machine.
> > >
> > > The reason I ask questions is to make sure I am going in
with
> my
> > > eyes wide open. The more I learn the better I will be able
to
> > make a
> > > wise choice when purchasing. And along the way I am meeting
new
> > > poeple on the forum, so it's already showing some reward.
> > >
> > > Gardner
> > >
> > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Mike:
> > > >
> > > > I agree with you. When we purchased our bird we planned
for
> > > deferred maintenance. I guess if we knew the costs of owning
> > these
> > > beautiful machines up front we could become consultants and
> > charge
> > > $200.00/hr. Then we could be sued for misrepresentation.
It's a
> > > crazy world.
> > > >
> > > > Leroy Eckert
> > > > 1990 WB-40
> > > > Niceville, FL
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Mike Hohnstein
> > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 12:49 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Uh, you sure a new class C wouldn't be a better choice?
> Trying
> > > to see the future with an antique vehicle is very irrational.
> > > > MH
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: gcyeaw
> > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2006 11:54 AM
> > > > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Cost of ownership
> > > >
> > > > James,
> > > > Thanks for your data. There seems to be some controversy
over
> > > the
> > > > level 2 maintenance cost, but based on an average speed of
> say
> > > 30
> > > > mph, that's 60,000 miles in 2000 hours. So if it's $800 or
> > $1200
> > > > it's not much different spread out over that mileage/time.
> Not
> > > > knowing the cost of adding a swing radiator, it would seem
to
> > > pay
> > > > for itself on the first broken belt or hose. I imagine
that
> > > removing
> > > > the dog house and putting down a protective runner before
> > > heading in
> > > > for service might also save some labor and probably please
> the
> > > > service tech as well.
> > > >
> > > > --- In
WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "orbitalsolutions"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Gardner, here are some actual maintence costs for the
model
> > > > of 'Bird
> > > > > that you are looking for.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you take the 'Bird to an authorized Cat Center for
oil
> > and
> > > > filter
> > > > > changes it will cost $280.00 -- This will include all of
> > your
> > > oil
> > > > > and fuel filters, a complete chassie lube and Cat brand
> > motor
> > > > oil.
> > > > > Of course they do all the work, you watch them and start
> the
> > > bus
> > > > > when needed.
> > > > >
> > > > > Here are the parts cost:
> > > > >
> > > > > 16 Qts. 15/40 Cat -- $34.40
> > > > >
> > > > > 2 - 1R-0713 -------- $11.20
> > > > >
> > > > > 1 - 1P-0808 -------- $2.46
> > > > >
> > > > > 1 - 1R-0750 -------- $11.88
> > > > >
> > > > > 1 - 8N9803 --------- $20.10
> > > > >
> > > > > Total parts cost is $80.04 -- so, you can save two
hundered
> > > bucks
> > > > > here if you do it yourself. This is a once a year task
for
> > > most
> > > > > folks.
> > > > >
> > > > > Tires, every five years between $2200 and $3000
depending
> on
> > > Tire
> > > > > Brand.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cat PM level 2 Maintainence -- every 2000 hours or
10.000
> > > gallons
> > > > of
> > > > > fuel -- Costs $790 at a certified Cat Center and
includes
> > > > > everything. This service also includes the above listed
> oil,
> > > > filter
> > > > > and lube service.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) All new hoses and belts
> > > > >
> > > > > 2) Performance Analysis report
> > > > >
> > > > > 3) Steam clean engine
> > > > >
> > > > > 4) Valve lash adjustment
> > > > >
> > > > > 5) cooling system service (flush and clean)
> > > > >
> > > > > That is pretty much your ongoing maintenience stuff. You
> can
> > > also
> > > > > figure on a transmission service every thirty thousand
> miles
> > > with
> > > > a
> > > > > new filter and fluid for about $175.00 including labor.
> > > > >
> > > > > That's the stuff you can count on doing and what it
> actually
> > > > costs.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hope this helps.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > James
> > > > > 78FC33SB "Old School"
> > > > > Orange Lake, FL
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In
WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "orbitalsolutions"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hello, Gardner.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The biggest factor in the cost of ownership of a 25
year
> > > old, or
> > > > > > older 'Bird, lies in the condition of the bus that you
> buy.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Remember we are talking about older buses here and no
two
> > > are
> > > > the
> > > > > > same. You will find "project buses" on the market that
> may
> > > need
> > > > > > everything replaced on them from the motor and
> electronics
> > > to
> > > > the
> > > > > > fridge and carpet ect. However, from time to time, a
very
> > > nice
> > > > > > highly updated example will be offered for sale that
will
> > > need
> > > > > next
> > > > > > to nothing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Obviously the cost of ownership will be much higher on
> > > > a "project
> > > > > > bus" than on a Cheery example with newer motor and
> > > everything
> > > > else
> > > > > > in the bus having been already updated and in good
> working
> > > order.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I guess my point is to buy your bus wisely! The
project
> > bus
> > > at
> > > > a
> > > > > > rock bottom price that needs everying replaced will
not
> be
> > > your
> > > > > best
> > > > > > value. Rather, find a bus that has had on-going care
by
> > > folks
> > > > who
> > > > > > were enthusiastic owners.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Take my bus for example ... the motor is about 4 years
> old
> > > with
> > > > > > 15,000 miles on it. At the time the motor was replaced
so
> > > were
> > > > > all
> > > > > > pumps, fan assembly even the main started motor. All
> belts
> > > and
> > > > > > hoses are two years old. Trojan batteries less than a
> year
> > > > old.
> > > > > > Twin 55 amp Iota charges less than a year old. Xantrex
> > pure
> > > > sine-
> > > > > > wave inverter less than a year old. High deffenition
> > Direct
> > > TV
> > > > > > system less than a yera old. 27" Samsung LCD TV less
than
> > a
> > > > year
> > > > > > old. Refridgerator about 4 years old. AC units about 3
> > years
> > > > > old.
> > > > > > Roof deck rebedded, refastened and painted less than a
> > year
> > > > ago.
> > > > > > Polished Aluminum wheels that you can comb your hair
in.
> > New
> > > > > carpet
> > > > > > about 2 years ago. I could go on and on, but you get
my
> > > point.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If I were to sell my bus tomorrow I could get around
25
> to
> > > 27
> > > > > > thousand.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now think about that "project bus" that has been
sitting
> > > behind
> > > > a
> > > > > > barn for 8 years before someone pulled it out,
polished
> it
> > > up
> > > > and
> > > > > > hung a for sale sign on it. These are two very
different
> > > > pictures
> > > > > > arn't they? Certainly you would experience a very
> > different
> > > > cost
> > > > > of
> > > > > > ownewship betweeen the above examples. Now you may be
> able
> > > to
> > > > buy
> > > > > > the project bus for 16 thousand bucks, but get ready
to
> > > spend
> > > > that
> > > > > > much again, and more, to make it into a good looking
> > > reliable
> > > > > runner.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So shop wisely, and buy the best bus you can find in
your
> > > price
> > > > > > range.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good Luck.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > James
> > > > > > 78FC33SB "Old School"
> > > > > > Orange Lake, FL (Mid-Eightys, total over cast and
raining)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "gcyeaw"
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have asked other questions on this forum and I do
> > > > appreciate
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > responses I have received. I have been building a
> > > spreadsheet
> > > > to
> > > > > > try
> > > > > > > to estimate the real cost of owning a vintage
Bluebird.
> > I
> > > love
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > look and would enjoy repairing/restoring the systems
at
> > my
> > > > > leisure
> > > > > > > prior to retirement.
> > > > > > > The price range I am looking at is under $30,000 for
a
> > > 1984
> > > > > or
> > > > > > > older FC 33 TO 35. Given that price range I would
> expect
> > > to
> > > > have
> > > > > > > lots of small things to fix. Also given the age, I
> would
> > > > expect
> > > > > > > higher incidence of failure in in basic
engine/transmit
> > > > > > ion/chassis
> > > > > > > systems over say, a 10 year time span..
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Would it be reasonable to estimate $700/year for
> routine
> > > > > > > maintenance and $1000/year for unplanned maintenance
> > > averaged
> > > > > over
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > ten year time span? (assuming I don't need an engine
> > > rebuild)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am really trying to determine the value as the
clock
> > > > ticks
> > > > > on
> > > > > > > 20 to 25 year old coaches. They may be well built,
but
> > so
> > > was
> > > > I
> > > > > 40
> > > > > > > years ago!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Gardner
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>