steering box

[bubblerboy64]

Got me Ole Girl back on the road again: Basically they replaced the
TieRod Ends and did alignment and adjusted what could be adjusted,
lubrication and inspection. The handling is significantly improved.
Much of the free travel has been eliminated. The result is less
wander in the wonderlodge. The fellows appreciated the input from
the forum and especially Chuck Wheelers comments. I feel like the
shop did an excellent job for me and with the help from my fellow
Bluebirders I made a pretty significant step in the right direction.

There still remains the issue of the springs,shackles and shocks with
respect to ride quality. To replace all of that stuff will set me
back pretty big bucks. Likely about $3500. Now the question is how
much improvement, or how much bang for my buck will I get. At this
point I am going to hold tight until I get to a rally so that some of
you other fellows can drive my bus and see how it compares to
others. I would not mind spending the money if I was going to get
real value. I have nothing to compare to. So plan to head to
Hershey in Oct lets see if some of you guys can take'r out for a spin
to see where I am at and where I should be going.
John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC








>
> When I had my steering box rebuilt I discovered that there were two
> different boxes used in the FC. The older one has much more "free
play"
> than the newer design. The difference is in the spool valve
design. If the
> steering wheel input shaft moves up and down when you move the
wheel with
> the engine off you have the older design. It's not really
mechanical free
> play but the amount of movement requires for the hydraulic system
to react.
> At the time we had ours rebuilt there were none of the newer design
> available to see if they were interchangeable. With the rebuilt
steering
> box, new tie rod ends, and bushings in the front end suspension
(totally
> gone) our FC handles very well now. There is still the free play,
but not
> slack, in the steering system. Now on a straight road there is
very little
> correction required. You want to be careful adjusting the sector
shaft
> preload, it is done with the box unloaded using a torque wrench on
the input
> shaft. Many people mistake eliminating free play with putting the
steering
> box in a bind which increases wear. The seals were worn out in our
steering
> box, but all other parts were in good condition. We are all used
to rack
> and pinion steering in our cars. Drive a 50s or early 60s vehicle
that have
> steering boxes and they have much the same feeling as our FCs.
>
> - Chuck Wheeler-
> FC 31SB Fort Worth TX
>
>
> _____
>
> From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubblerboy64
> Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 3:11 AM
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Steering box
>
>
>
> My bus is in the shop as we speak sorting our suspension and
handling
> issues. The fellows have told me that they have things in pretty
> good order but are concerned about some "free travel" which they
have
> traced to the steering box. Now here is the issue. This steering
box
> was a rebuilt box which the previous owner replaced about 20K miles
> ago. (The previous owner said this greatly improved the handling.)
> The guys are telling me that my options are to live with this free
> travel or get another remanufactured steering box. My concern is
> that I might get another only to find its no better then the one I
> have now. My fellows are also not really familiar with BB's and I
> wonder if they are expection the impossible with this old FC? Any
> suggestions or tricks which I might pass on to the shop. They did
> say there was some type of adjustment that they were going to try
to
> make but it was "tricky" if they went just a little too far then
the
> steering would potentially have a tight spot or a hitch in it.( I
may
> not have that exactly right as to their discription but you likely
> get the point. They said what they were going to adjust but that
> didn't stick in the ole knoggin) The shop works on RV's and heavy
> equipment and is very well respected. They don't see a lot of BB'ds
> so if there is any thing I can pass along they are more then
willing
> for my information.
>
> John Heckman
> central Pa
> 1973 FC
>

[Chuck Wheeler]

Shocks can make a big improvement if the existing ones are weak. If the shopcould align the front end and there were no obvious problems I would not spend the money on springs etc.

- Chuck Wheeler-

FC 31SB Fort Worth TX

---

From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubblerboy64
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 10:17 AM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Steering box

Got me Ole Girl back on the road again: Basically they replaced the
TieRod Ends and did alignment and adjusted what could be adjusted,
lubrication and inspection. The handling is significantly improved.
Much of the free travel has been eliminated. The result is less
wander in the wonderlodge. The fellows appreciated the input from
the forum and especially Chuck Wheelers comments. I feel like the
shop did an excellent job for me and with the help from my fellow
Bluebirders I made a pretty significant step in the right direction.

There still remains the issue of the springs,shackles and shocks with
respect to ride quality. To replace all of that stuff will set me
back pretty big bucks. Likely about $3500. Now the question is how
much improvement, or how much bang for my buck will I get. At this
point I am going to hold tight until I get to a rally so that some of
you other fellows can drive my bus and see how it compares to
others. I would not mind spending the money if I was going to get
real value. I have nothing to compare to. So plan to head to
Hershey in Oct lets see if some of you guys can take'r out for a spin
to see where I am at and where I should be going.
John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC

>
> When I had my steering box rebuilt I discovered that there were two
> different boxes used in the FC. The older one has much more "free
play"
> than the newer design. The difference is in the spool valve
design. If the
> steering wheel input shaft moves up and down when you move the
wheel with
> the engine off you have the older design. It's not really
mechanical free
> play but the amount of movement requires for the hydraulic system
to react.
> At the time we had ours rebuilt there were none of the newer design
> available to see if they were interchangeable. With the rebuilt
steering
> box, new tie rod ends, and bushings in the front end suspension
(totally
> gone) our FC handles very well now. There is still the free play,
but not
> slack, in the steering system. Now on a straight road there is
very little
> correction required. You want to be careful adjusting the sector
shaft
> preload, it is done with the box unloaded using a torque wrench on
the input
> shaft. Many people mistake eliminating free play with putting the
steering
> box in a bind which increases wear. The seals were worn out in our
steering
> box, but all other parts were in good condition. We are all used
to rack
> and pinion steering in our cars. Drive a 50s or early 60s vehicle
that have
> steering boxes and they have much the same feeling as our FCs.
>
> - Chuck Wheeler-
> FC 31SB Fort Worth TX
>
>
> _____
>
> From: "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"
> [mailto:"WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"] On Behalf Of bubblerboy64
> Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 3:11 AM
> To: "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Steering box
>
>
>
> My bus is in the shop as we speak sorting our suspension and
handling
> issues. The fellows have told me that they have things in pretty
> good order but are concerned about some "free travel" which they
have
> traced to the steering box. Now here is the issue. This steering
box
> was a rebuilt box which the previous owner replaced about 20K miles
> ago. (The previous owner said this greatly improved the handling.)
> The guys are telling me that my options are to live with this free
> travel or get another remanufactured steering box. My concern is
> that I might get another only to find its no better then the one I
> have now. My fellows are also not really familiar with BB's and I
> wonder if they are expection the impossible with this old FC? Any
> suggestions or tricks which I might pass on to the shop. They did
> say there was some type of adjustment that they were going to try
to
> make but it was "tricky" if they went just a little too far then
the
> steering would potentially have a tight spot or a hitch in it.( I
may
> not have that exactly right as to their discription but you likely
> get the point. They said what they were going to adjust but that
> didn't stick in the ole knoggin) The shop works on RV's and heavy
> equipment and is very well respected. They don't see a lot of BB'ds
> so if there is any thing I can pass along they are more then
willing
> for my information.
>
> John Heckman
> central Pa
> 1973 FC
>

[bubblerboy64]

Thanks Chuck, I am certainly not going to jump to replacing the
springs until I have some further input from people more informed
then I at this point. Shocks?? They intended to replace them but
were sent the wrong ones (Monroe's)They cross referenced off what is
on the bus now Delco) I know Koni shocks are the preference. The
shocks which are on my bus are Delco 3187991 both front and back. Can
you tell me what numbers I need for my application. Consider that
this bus has been modified and specifically the switch from the gas
engine to the 3208 NA. Don't know if that makes a difference or not.
John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC
>
> Shocks can make a big improvement if the existing ones are weak.
If the
> shop could align the front end and there were no obvious problems I
would
> not spend the money on springs etc.
>
> - Chuck Wheeler-
> FC 31SB Fort Worth TX
>
>
> _____
>
> From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubblerboy64
> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 10:17 AM
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Steering box
>
>
>
> Got me Ole Girl back on the road again: Basically they replaced the
> TieRod Ends and did alignment and adjusted what could be adjusted,
> lubrication and inspection. The handling is significantly improved.
> Much of the free travel has been eliminated. The result is less
> wander in the wonderlodge. The fellows appreciated the input from
> the forum and especially Chuck Wheelers comments. I feel like the
> shop did an excellent job for me and with the help from my fellow
> Bluebirders I made a pretty significant step in the right
direction.
>
> There still remains the issue of the springs,shackles and shocks
with
> respect to ride quality. To replace all of that stuff will set me
> back pretty big bucks. Likely about $3500. Now the question is how
> much improvement, or how much bang for my buck will I get. At this
> point I am going to hold tight until I get to a rally so that some
of
> you other fellows can drive my bus and see how it compares to
> others. I would not mind spending the money if I was going to get
> real value. I have nothing to compare to. So plan to head to
> Hershey in Oct lets see if some of you guys can take'r out for a
spin
> to see where I am at and where I should be going.
> John Heckman
> central Pa
> 1973 FC
>
> >
> > When I had my steering box rebuilt I discovered that there were
two
> > different boxes used in the FC. The older one has much more "free
> play"
> > than the newer design. The difference is in the spool valve
> design. If the
> > steering wheel input shaft moves up and down when you move the
> wheel with
> > the engine off you have the older design. It's not really
> mechanical free
> > play but the amount of movement requires for the hydraulic system
> to react.
> > At the time we had ours rebuilt there were none of the newer
design
> > available to see if they were interchangeable. With the rebuilt
> steering
> > box, new tie rod ends, and bushings in the front end suspension
> (totally
> > gone) our FC handles very well now. There is still the free play,
> but not
> > slack, in the steering system. Now on a straight road there is
> very little
> > correction required. You want to be careful adjusting the sector
> shaft
> > preload, it is done with the box unloaded using a torque wrench
on
> the input
> > shaft. Many people mistake eliminating free play with putting the
> steering
> > box in a bind which increases wear. The seals were worn out in
our
> steering
> > box, but all other parts were in good condition. We are all used
> to rack
> > and pinion steering in our cars. Drive a 50s or early 60s vehicle
> that have
> > steering boxes and they have much the same feeling as our FCs.
> >
> > - Chuck Wheeler-
> > FC 31SB Fort Worth TX
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: WanderlodgeForum@ 40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@ 40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubblerboy64
> > Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 3:11 AM
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@
> yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Steering box
> >
> >
> >
> > My bus is in the shop as we speak sorting our suspension and
> handling
> > issues. The fellows have told me that they have things in pretty
> > good order but are concerned about some "free travel" which they
> have
> > traced to the steering box. Now here is the issue. This steering
> box
> > was a rebuilt box which the previous owner replaced about 20K
miles
> > ago. (The previous owner said this greatly improved the
handling.)
> > The guys are telling me that my options are to live with this
free
> > travel or get another remanufactured steering box. My concern is
> > that I might get another only to find its no better then the one
I
> > have now. My fellows are also not really familiar with BB's and I
> > wonder if they are expection the impossible with this old FC? Any
> > suggestions or tricks which I might pass on to the shop. They did
> > say there was some type of adjustment that they were going to try
> to
> > make but it was "tricky" if they went just a little too far then
> the
> > steering would potentially have a tight spot or a hitch in it.( I
> may
> > not have that exactly right as to their discription but you
likely
> > get the point. They said what they were going to adjust but that
> > didn't stick in the ole knoggin) The shop works on RV's and heavy
> > equipment and is very well respected. They don't see a lot of
BB'ds
> > so if there is any thing I can pass along they are more then
> willing
> > for my information.
> >
> > John Heckman
> > central Pa
> > 1973 FC
> >
>

[Pete Masterson]

I would suspect that the shocks, if they show signs of being, worn
might offer a modest but cost-effective improvement in handling.
(Does the coach bounce excessively or porpoise?) Unless the springs
and shackles, etc. are clearly displaying out-of-spec sag or other
bent components, that you'll get much less benefit from making any
changes to them.

Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
aeonix1@...
On the road at Idaho Springs, CO



On Aug 28, 2008, at 9:16 AM, bubblerboy64 wrote:

> <snip>
> There still remains the issue of the springs,shackles and shocks with
> respect to ride quality. To replace all of that stuff will set me
> back pretty big bucks. Likely about $3500. Now the question is how
> much improvement, or how much bang for my buck will I get. At this
> point I am going to hold tight until I get to a rally so that some of
> you other fellows can drive my bus and see how it compares to
> others. I would not mind spending the money if I was going to get
> real value. I have nothing to compare to. So plan to head to
> Hershey in Oct lets see if some of you guys can take'r out for a spin
> to see where I am at and where I should be going.
> John Heckman
> central Pa
> 1973 FC
> <snip>

[Chuck Wheeler]

Our 82 has air suspension so the application might not be the same for the shocks. Koni has a application guide online although I purchased mine form BB.

- Chuck Wheeler-

FC 31SB Fort Worth TX

---

From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubblerboy64
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 11:33 AM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Steering box

Thanks Chuck, I am certainly not going to jump to replacing the
springs until I have some further input from people more informed
then I at this point. Shocks?? They intended to replace them but
were sent the wrong ones (Monroe's)They cross referenced off what is
on the bus now Delco) I know Koni shocks are the preference. The
shocks which are on my bus are Delco 3187991 both front and back. Can
you tell me what numbers I need for my application. Consider that
this bus has been modified and specifically the switch from the gas
engine to the 3208 NA. Don't know if that makes a difference or not.
John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC
>
> Shocks can make a big improvement if the existing ones are weak.
If the
> shop could align the front end and there were no obvious problems I
would
> not spend the money on springs etc.
>
> - Chuck Wheeler-
> FC 31SB Fort Worth TX
>
>
> _____
>
> From: "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"
> [mailto:"WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"] On Behalf Of bubblerboy64
> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 10:17 AM
> To: "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com"
> Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Steering box
>
>
>
> Got me Ole Girl back on the road again: Basically they replaced the
> TieRod Ends and did alignment and adjusted what could be adjusted,
> lubrication and inspection. The handling is significantly improved.
> Much of the free travel has been eliminated. The result is less
> wander in the wonderlodge. The fellows appreciated the input from
> the forum and especially Chuck Wheelers comments. I feel like the
> shop did an excellent job for me and with the help from my fellow
> Bluebirders I made a pretty significant step in the right
direction.
>
> There still remains the issue of the springs,shackles and shocks
with
> respect to ride quality. To replace all of that stuff will set me
> back pretty big bucks. Likely about $3500. Now the question is how
> much improvement, or how much bang for my buck will I get. At this
> point I am going to hold tight until I get to a rally so that some
of
> you other fellows can drive my bus and see how it compares to
> others. I would not mind spending the money if I was going to get
> real value. I have nothing to compare to. So plan to head to
> Hershey in Oct lets see if some of you guys can take'r out for a
spin
> to see where I am at and where I should be going.
> John Heckman
> central Pa
> 1973 FC
>
> >
> > When I had my steering box rebuilt I discovered that there were
two
> > different boxes used in the FC. The older one has much more "free
> play"
> > than the newer design. The difference is in the spool valve
> design. If the
> > steering wheel input shaft moves up and down when you move the
> wheel with
> > the engine off you have the older design. It's not really
> mechanical free
> > play but the amount of movement requires for the hydraulic system
> to react.
> > At the time we had ours rebuilt there were none of the newer
design
> > available to see if they were interchangeable. With the rebuilt
> steering
> > box, new tie rod ends, and bushings in the front end suspension
> (totally
> > gone) our FC handles very well now. There is still the free play,
> but not
> > slack, in the steering system. Now on a straight road there is
> very little
> > correction required. You want to be careful adjusting the sector
> shaft
> > preload, it is done with the box unloaded using a torque wrench
on
> the input
> > shaft. Many people mistake eliminating free play with putting the
> steering
> > box in a bind which increases wear. The seals were worn out in
our
> steering
> > box, but all other parts were in good condition. We are all used
> to rack
> > and pinion steering in our cars. Drive a 50s or early 60s vehicle
> that have
> > steering boxes and they have much the same feeling as our FCs.
> >
> > - Chuck Wheeler-
> > FC 31SB Fort Worth TX
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: WanderlodgeForum@ Forum%
40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:WanderlodgeForum@ Forum%
40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of bubblerboy64
> > Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 3:11 AM
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@ Forum%40yahoogroups.com>
> yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Steering box
> >
> >
> >
> > My bus is in the shop as we speak sorting our suspension and
> handling
> > issues. The fellows have told me that they have things in pretty
> > good order but are concerned about some "free travel" which they
> have
> > traced to the steering box. Now here is the issue. This steering
> box
> > was a rebuilt box which the previous owner replaced about 20K
miles
> > ago. (The previous owner said this greatly improved the
handling.)
> > The guys are telling me that my options are to live with this
free
> > travel or get another remanufactured steering box. My concern is
> > that I might get another only to find its no better then the one
I
> > have now. My fellows are also not really familiar with BB's and I
> > wonder if they are expection the impossible with this old FC? Any
> > suggestions or tricks which I might pass on to the shop. They did
> > say there was some type of adjustment that they were going to try
> to
> > make but it was "tricky" if they went just a little too far then
> the
> > steering would potentially have a tight spot or a hitch in it.( I
> may
> > not have that exactly right as to their discription but you
likely
> > get the point. They said what they were going to adjust but that
> > didn't stick in the ole knoggin) The shop works on RV's and heavy
> > equipment and is very well respected. They don't see a lot of
BB'ds
> > so if there is any thing I can pass along they are more then
> willing
> > for my information.
> >
> > John Heckman
> > central Pa
> > 1973 FC
> >
>

[bubblerboy64]

Hi Pete, The springs are pretty flat especially the back ones. One
poster commented about wheel clearance. I have plenty of that. The
shop thinks that when the engine was switched over to the 3208 the
springs were modified by adding additional springs leaves which would
make sense. The bus doesn't porpoise at all, the opposite it bangs
pretty hard over bumps. The shop feels that the springs would
function better if they were graduated from top to bottom and matched
to the weight that the bus is being ask to carry now. So there is
some reason to speculate that the bus would ride better with new
springs under it. The question remains HOW MUCH. I can spend the
money to find out. I might gain a lot I might gain just a little.
The fellows at the shop didn't think the bus rode too badly. They
objected to the loose steering more then the ride. I of course became
some what used to the steering. But it is much better now I will
grant you that. The shop obviously knews their stuff.

There are other issues as well. Currently the they can buy the
springs off the shelf. If they become unavailable then they are have
to be custom made at about twice the cost. I have to factor all that
in with considerations as to how long I will keep the coach. I think
I will let a couple of the fellows drive the bus when we get together
at Hershey and see if there is a consensus of opinion.
John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC




>
> I would suspect that the shocks, if they show signs of being, worn
> might offer a modest but cost-effective improvement in handling.
> (Does the coach bounce excessively or porpoise?) Unless the
springs
> and shackles, etc. are clearly displaying out-of-spec sag or other
> bent components, that you'll get much less benefit from making any
> changes to them.
>
> Pete Masterson
> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> aeonix1@...
> On the road at Idaho Springs, CO
>
>
>
> On Aug 28, 2008, at 9:16 AM, bubblerboy64 wrote:
>
> > <snip>
> > There still remains the issue of the springs,shackles and shocks
with
> > respect to ride quality. To replace all of that stuff will set me
> > back pretty big bucks. Likely about $3500. Now the question is
how
> > much improvement, or how much bang for my buck will I get. At
this
> > point I am going to hold tight until I get to a rally so that
some of
> > you other fellows can drive my bus and see how it compares to
> > others. I would not mind spending the money if I was going to get
> > real value. I have nothing to compare to. So plan to head to
> > Hershey in Oct lets see if some of you guys can take'r out for a
spin
> > to see where I am at and where I should be going.
> > John Heckman
> > central Pa
> > 1973 FC
> > <snip>
>

[Pete Masterson]

Your idea of having others, with similar old coaches, give it a drive
and give you an opinion is probably a good one. When I was first
considering a coach, I was looking at bus conversions (not just BBs)
and I recall reading a web site that suggested that the Blue Birds
with air suspension were "much preferred" over the metal spring
suspension coaches -- so I'd expect that a somewhat hard ride might
be normal. (Years ago, I drove a few heavy trucks with spring
suspension in the Army -- they rode hard, but we didn't go very fast,
either.) I think one member got an "air ride seat" in his bird... it
might be a more cost effective choice to improve ride comfort. About
all I can say about my coach is that "it rides like a bus...."

You might call the factory and see if you can get some opinions
there... if there's anyone around who remembers the spring-suspension
models. (I suppose that the school busses have the air suspension
these days, so knowledge about spring suspension may be lost by now...)

Over $3000 is quite a price to pay for potentially only a small
incremental improvement....

Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
aeonix1@...
On the road at Idaho Springs, CO



On Aug 28, 2008, at 12:44 PM, bubblerboy64 wrote:

> Hi Pete, The springs are pretty flat especially the back ones. One
> poster commented about wheel clearance. I have plenty of that. The
> shop thinks that when the engine was switched over to the 3208 the
> springs were modified by adding additional springs leaves which would
> make sense. The bus doesn't porpoise at all, the opposite it bangs
> pretty hard over bumps. The shop feels that the springs would
> function better if they were graduated from top to bottom and matched
> to the weight that the bus is being ask to carry now. So there is
> some reason to speculate that the bus would ride better with new
> springs under it. The question remains HOW MUCH. I can spend the
> money to find out. I might gain a lot I might gain just a little.
> The fellows at the shop didn't think the bus rode too badly. They
> objected to the loose steering more then the ride. I of course became
> some what used to the steering. But it is much better now I will
> grant you that. The shop obviously knews their stuff.
>
> There are other issues as well. Currently the they can buy the
> springs off the shelf. If they become unavailable then they are have
> to be custom made at about twice the cost. I have to factor all that
> in with considerations as to how long I will keep the coach. I think
> I will let a couple of the fellows drive the bus when we get together
> at Hershey and see if there is a consensus of opinion.
> John Heckman
> central Pa
> 1973 FC
>
>
>
>
>>
>> I would suspect that the shocks, if they show signs of being, worn
>> might offer a modest but cost-effective improvement in handling.
>> (Does the coach bounce excessively or porpoise?) Unless the
> springs
>> and shackles, etc. are clearly displaying out-of-spec sag or other
>> bent components, that you'll get much less benefit from making any
>> changes to them.
>>
>> Pete Masterson
>> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
>> aeonix1@...
>> On the road at Idaho Springs, CO
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 28, 2008, at 9:16 AM, bubblerboy64 wrote:
>>
>>> <snip>
>>> There still remains the issue of the springs,shackles and shocks
> with
>>> respect to ride quality. To replace all of that stuff will set me
>>> back pretty big bucks. Likely about $3500. Now the question is
> how
>>> much improvement, or how much bang for my buck will I get. At
> this
>>> point I am going to hold tight until I get to a rally so that
> some of
>>> you other fellows can drive my bus and see how it compares to
>>> others. I would not mind spending the money if I was going to get
>>> real value. I have nothing to compare to. So plan to head to
>>> Hershey in Oct lets see if some of you guys can take'r out for a
> spin
>>> to see where I am at and where I should be going.
>>> John Heckman
>>> central Pa
>>> 1973 FC
>>> <snip>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[bubblerboy64]

Pete, Shane and I got air pedestal seats about six weeks ago and that
helped so much I gotten greedy wanting more. I need to drive a
couple newer buses and have guys who are in the know drive mine.
Until I do that I really can't set long term goals. My goal is to be
able to drive all day if needed and be reasonably comfortable. My bus
is greatly improved but not there yet. If I can get to that point
then I don't have a problem spending the money. If my goal is
unrealistic then I would be better off trading up. So experience is
needed and of course opinions considered. In the end I will have to
decide what is right for me, I know that. Too bad I can't go to a
used BB lot and drive two or three like you can a car. Maybe at a
Rally?

John Heckman
central Pa
1973 FC
>
> Your idea of having others, with similar old coaches, give it a
drive
> and give you an opinion is probably a good one. When I was first
> considering a coach, I was looking at bus conversions (not just
BBs)
> and I recall reading a web site that suggested that the Blue Birds
> with air suspension were "much preferred" over the metal spring
> suspension coaches -- so I'd expect that a somewhat hard ride
might
> be normal. (Years ago, I drove a few heavy trucks with spring
> suspension in the Army -- they rode hard, but we didn't go very
fast,
> either.) I think one member got an "air ride seat" in his bird...
it
> might be a more cost effective choice to improve ride comfort.
About
> all I can say about my coach is that "it rides like a bus...."
>
> You might call the factory and see if you can get some opinions
> there... if there's anyone around who remembers the spring-
suspension
> models. (I suppose that the school busses have the air suspension
> these days, so knowledge about spring suspension may be lost by
now...)
>
> Over $3000 is quite a price to pay for potentially only a small
> incremental improvement....
>
> Pete Masterson
> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> aeonix1@...
> On the road at Idaho Springs, CO
>
>
>
> On Aug 28, 2008, at 12:44 PM, bubblerboy64 wrote:
>
> > Hi Pete, The springs are pretty flat especially the back ones.
One
> > poster commented about wheel clearance. I have plenty of that.
The
> > shop thinks that when the engine was switched over to the 3208 the
> > springs were modified by adding additional springs leaves which
would
> > make sense. The bus doesn't porpoise at all, the opposite it
bangs
> > pretty hard over bumps. The shop feels that the springs would
> > function better if they were graduated from top to bottom and
matched
> > to the weight that the bus is being ask to carry now. So there is
> > some reason to speculate that the bus would ride better with new
> > springs under it. The question remains HOW MUCH. I can spend the
> > money to find out. I might gain a lot I might gain just a little.
> > The fellows at the shop didn't think the bus rode too badly. They
> > objected to the loose steering more then the ride. I of course
became
> > some what used to the steering. But it is much better now I will
> > grant you that. The shop obviously knews their stuff.
> >
> > There are other issues as well. Currently the they can buy the
> > springs off the shelf. If they become unavailable then they are
have
> > to be custom made at about twice the cost. I have to factor all
that
> > in with considerations as to how long I will keep the coach. I
think
> > I will let a couple of the fellows drive the bus when we get
together
> > at Hershey and see if there is a consensus of opinion.
> > John Heckman
> > central Pa
> > 1973 FC
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> I would suspect that the shocks, if they show signs of being,
worn
> >> might offer a modest but cost-effective improvement in handling.
> >> (Does the coach bounce excessively or porpoise?) Unless the
> > springs
> >> and shackles, etc. are clearly displaying out-of-spec sag or
other
> >> bent components, that you'll get much less benefit from making
any
> >> changes to them.
> >>
> >> Pete Masterson
> >> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> >> aeonix1@
> >> On the road at Idaho Springs, CO
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Aug 28, 2008, at 9:16 AM, bubblerboy64 wrote:
> >>
> >>> <snip>
> >>> There still remains the issue of the springs,shackles and shocks
> > with
> >>> respect to ride quality. To replace all of that stuff will set
me
> >>> back pretty big bucks. Likely about $3500. Now the question is
> > how
> >>> much improvement, or how much bang for my buck will I get. At
> > this
> >>> point I am going to hold tight until I get to a rally so that
> > some of
> >>> you other fellows can drive my bus and see how it compares to
> >>> others. I would not mind spending the money if I was going to
get
> >>> real value. I have nothing to compare to. So plan to head to
> >>> Hershey in Oct lets see if some of you guys can take'r out for a
> > spin
> >>> to see where I am at and where I should be going.
> >>> John Heckman
> >>> central Pa
> >>> 1973 FC
> >>> <snip>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

[Pete Masterson]

John,

Well, about all I can say is that I can drive my coach for 6, 8, or
even 10 hours and not feel significantly more tired that if I'd
driven my car that long. Frankly, I prefer to keep driving days to
about 6 hours -- but that's true in the car as well. It's just a
personal preference.

It's been a very long time since I've driven a non-air suspension
heavy vehicle -- and I was much younger then...! I guess you ought to
drive a newer coach just to get a feel for the difference. You might
watch the ads and see if there's a for-sale (newer unit) somewhere
near you. A test drive of an air-suspended coach might just give you
the additional data you need.

Pete Masterson
'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
aeonix1@...
On the road at Idaho Springs, CO



On Aug 28, 2008, at 5:31 PM, bubblerboy64 wrote:

> Pete, Shane and I got air pedestal seats about six weeks ago and that
> helped so much I gotten greedy wanting more. I need to drive a
> couple newer buses and have guys who are in the know drive mine.
> Until I do that I really can't set long term goals. My goal is to be
> able to drive all day if needed and be reasonably comfortable. My bus
> is greatly improved but not there yet. If I can get to that point
> then I don't have a problem spending the money. If my goal is
> unrealistic then I would be better off trading up. So experience is
> needed and of course opinions considered. In the end I will have to
> decide what is right for me, I know that. Too bad I can't go to a
> used BB lot and drive two or three like you can a car. Maybe at a
> Rally?
>
> John Heckman
> central Pa
> 1973 FC
>>
>> Your idea of having others, with similar old coaches, give it a
> drive
>> and give you an opinion is probably a good one. When I was first
>> considering a coach, I was looking at bus conversions (not just
> BBs)
>> and I recall reading a web site that suggested that the Blue Birds
>> with air suspension were "much preferred" over the metal spring
>> suspension coaches -- so I'd expect that a somewhat hard ride
> might
>> be normal. (Years ago, I drove a few heavy trucks with spring
>> suspension in the Army -- they rode hard, but we didn't go very
> fast,
>> either.) I think one member got an "air ride seat" in his bird...
> it
>> might be a more cost effective choice to improve ride comfort.
> About
>> all I can say about my coach is that "it rides like a bus...."
>>
>> You might call the factory and see if you can get some opinions
>> there... if there's anyone around who remembers the spring-
> suspension
>> models. (I suppose that the school busses have the air suspension
>> these days, so knowledge about spring suspension may be lost by
> now...)
>>
>> Over $3000 is quite a price to pay for potentially only a small
>> incremental improvement....
>>
>> Pete Masterson
>> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
>> aeonix1@...
>> On the road at Idaho Springs, CO
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 28, 2008, at 12:44 PM, bubblerboy64 wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Pete, The springs are pretty flat especially the back ones.
> One
>>> poster commented about wheel clearance. I have plenty of that.
> The
>>> shop thinks that when the engine was switched over to the 3208 the
>>> springs were modified by adding additional springs leaves which
> would
>>> make sense. The bus doesn't porpoise at all, the opposite it
> bangs
>>> pretty hard over bumps. The shop feels that the springs would
>>> function better if they were graduated from top to bottom and
> matched
>>> to the weight that the bus is being ask to carry now. So there is
>>> some reason to speculate that the bus would ride better with new
>>> springs under it. The question remains HOW MUCH. I can spend the
>>> money to find out. I might gain a lot I might gain just a little.
>>> The fellows at the shop didn't think the bus rode too badly. They
>>> objected to the loose steering more then the ride. I of course
> became
>>> some what used to the steering. But it is much better now I will
>>> grant you that. The shop obviously knews their stuff.
>>>
>>> There are other issues as well. Currently the they can buy the
>>> springs off the shelf. If they become unavailable then they are
> have
>>> to be custom made at about twice the cost. I have to factor all
> that
>>> in with considerations as to how long I will keep the coach. I
> think
>>> I will let a couple of the fellows drive the bus when we get
> together
>>> at Hershey and see if there is a consensus of opinion.
>>> John Heckman
>>> central Pa
>>> 1973 FC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would suspect that the shocks, if they show signs of being,
> worn
>>>> might offer a modest but cost-effective improvement in handling.
>>>> (Does the coach bounce excessively or porpoise?) Unless the
>>> springs
>>>> and shackles, etc. are clearly displaying out-of-spec sag or
> other
>>>> bent components, that you'll get much less benefit from making
> any
>>>> changes to them.
>>>>
>>>> Pete Masterson
>>>> '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
>>>> aeonix1@
>>>> On the road at Idaho Springs, CO
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 28, 2008, at 9:16 AM, bubblerboy64 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>> There still remains the issue of the springs,shackles and shocks
>>> with
>>>>> respect to ride quality. To replace all of that stuff will set
> me
>>>>> back pretty big bucks. Likely about $3500. Now the question is
>>> how
>>>>> much improvement, or how much bang for my buck will I get. At
>>> this
>>>>> point I am going to hold tight until I get to a rally so that
>>> some of
>>>>> you other fellows can drive my bus and see how it compares to
>>>>> others. I would not mind spending the money if I was going to
> get
>>>>> real value. I have nothing to compare to. So plan to head to
>>>>> Hershey in Oct lets see if some of you guys can take'r out for a
>>> spin
>>>>> to see where I am at and where I should be going.
>>>>> John Heckman
>>>>> central Pa
>>>>> 1973 FC
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[patticake592000]

John,
By all means change your shocks. You will see a difference.
Go to a NAPA store and tell them you have a '78 Bird. You can get
NAPA shocks(they are the same as Monroe. Same co.) The reason for
a '78 model is the engine(they were all diesel). Plus, the part #'s
are in their book.

How do I know? Personal experience. I had a '78. Installation
was easy. Did it in the driveway, without having to jack anything up.


Steve Gureasko
90WLWB40 Jus Chillin
Ponchatoula, La Waiting and watching Gustav make it's move
before I make mine. A game of chess!!