315/80 vs 12R - was Overweight

[ronmarabito2002]

Bruce: I've had Michelin's and could not tell any advantage in handling.
Unless they were compared under controlled conditions, I doubt anyone could,
unless there was a significant difference in the construction. You might tell
the difference in tires specifically designed for RV use as opposed to trucks.

I personally run another brand at a price of less than $500. I have done this
for 15 years and never had a tire failure that was not caused by a road hazard.

All this being said, everyone does what makes them feel comfortable. I'd rather
buy fuel so I can travel.

R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "birdshill123"
wrote:
>
> Ron Marabito:
>
> Talking tires is like talking politics. Every one has an opinion. I dont
think an RV'r would install Michelins for read wear. AS you stated we will never
wear them out. I just installed 6 Michelin XZE's on our 88FC35. I went for
Michelin because they are the best. Better handling for one. You have to be very
carefull when buying truck tires for an RV. Some are steer axle only. Some are
drive axle only. I look at what the buses in Mexico run and it is Michelin by a
long shot. There are cheaper options and I happen to think there is a reason why
they spend the extra money. It is one thing to buy a cheap battery. If it fails
you get another. Tires are the only thing between you and the road. If it
fails..................!
>
>
> Bruce
> 1988 FC35
>

[ronmarabito2002]

I agree with you Steve.

R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Steve Pfiffner wrote:
>
> I know from experience that Michelins are great tires. However in my long
> career owning and operating medium and heavy duty trucks I found Yokohama
> truck tires were the price/performance champs. One more opinion!
>
> Steve
> Wannabee
>
>
> On 3/26/09, birdshill123 wrote:
> >
> > Ron Marabito:
> >
> > Talking tires is like talking politics. Every one has an opinion. I dont
> > think an RV'r would install Michelins for read wear. AS you stated we will
> > never wear them out. I just installed 6 Michelin XZE's on our 88FC35. I went
> > for Michelin because they are the best. Better handling for one. You have to
> > be very carefull when buying truck tires for an RV. Some are steer axle
> > only. Some are drive axle only. I look at what the buses in Mexico run and
> > it is Michelin by a long shot. There are cheaper options and I happen to
> > think there is a reason why they spend the extra money. It is one thing to
> > buy a cheap battery. If it fails you get another. Tires are the only thing
> > between you and the road. If it fails..................!
> >
> >
> > Bruce
> > 1988 FC35
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

[ronmarabito2002]

Try getting that kind of response from Michelin. I know of no one that has ever
been able to satisfy a claim with Michelin. If you know of someone, I'd like to
talk to them.

R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, rogerwwebb@... wrote:
>
> FWIW - I now have Michelins.
>
> In 2007 I bought Goodyear G149 tires, which were a bit less expensive and I
> thought would be just as good. I was wrong.
>
> I had catastrophic tread separation with less than 9,000 miles on two
> separate occasions, both times caused damage to the coach. Goodyear replaced
the
> tires and paid for the coach damage. However, as I did not trust the tires I
> asked for a refund or replacement of all the tires. Unfortunately the G149's
> were the only tire they made (including other brands they own) that fit and
> although they offered to replace all the tires with new G149's I was uneasy
> with such action, as they could/would not tell me why a new set was going to
> be better than the old set. I got disgusted and changed out to the
Michelins.
> I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND GOODYEAR TIRES due to this experience.
>
> R. W. Webb
> 91 WL
> Cedar Rapids, IA
>
>
> In a message dated 3/26/2009 9:44:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> bluethunder@... writes:
>
>
>
>
> I can only put it this way: tires are one thing I'm not looking for the
> least expensive alternative.
>
> On 3/27/2009 at 12:26 AM ronmarabito2002 wrote:
>
> >Why would you want to pay +$200 to $300 per tire for Michelins? Do you
> >actually perceive that additional value in your tires? I have yet to wear
> >out any tire unless it was mis-aligned or damaged. Mine change due to age
> >and a less expensive tire does the job.
> >
> >R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> >
> >--- In _WanderlodgeForum@WanderlodgeFWan_
> (mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com) , "Don Bradner"
> >wrote:
> >>
> >> The price was $709.89 each, before a lot of taxes, etc.
> >>
> >> The MSRP is something over $800, but I'm not sure if anyone ever charges
> >full list.
> >>
> >> So far the X Coach is only 295/80, which is an inch less in diameter
> >than the 315/80 XZA-2 and 1.3 inches less than the 12R XZE*
> >>
> >> To handle your weight, assuming equal weight on each axle end:
> >> 315/80 XZA-2 95 PSI
> >> 295/80 X-Coach 110 PSI
> >> 12R XZE* 115 PSI
> >>
> >> On 3/26/2009 at 1:02 AM Bob Lawrence wrote:
> >>
> >> >Hi Don,
> >> >What did you have to pay for the steer tires?
> >> >Next month I want to get new steers.
> >> >I see Michelin has new X Coach XZ bus tires on their website.
> >> >Trying to figure what way to go.
> >> >My front end is 13,800 lbs. now.
> >> >Bob Lawrence
> >> >84 PT36
> >> >Laguna Atascosa NWR, Los Fresnos, Texas (Where a guy shot himself to
> >death
> >> >today)
> >> >
> >> >> Got my new steer tires today, 315/80R Michelin XZA-2 Energies. Moved
> >my
> >> >2+ year-old 12R XZE* to the tag.
> >> >>
> >> >> Really happy to have the tires down near 100 lbs fully capable of
> >> >handling the weight that took near 120 lbs on the 12Rs!
> >> >>
> >> >> The price of the tires though is one of those "gulp" items.
> >> >>
> >> >> A footnote: When I bought Blue Thunder I rather immediately had to
> >> >replace the left front wheel because it had a severe crack that was
> >> >intolerable for a steer wheel. Today it was pointed out that the left
> >tag
> >> >wheel had multiple cracks - some horseshoe from outer hole to inner back
> >> >to outer. Not good. The local tire place had a lot of excellent used
> >ones,
> >> >so I replaced that wheel. Going to have a lot of work to get it looking
> >as
> >> >good as the other ones
> >> >> Don Bradner
> >> >> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> >> >> My location: http://www.bbirdmaps. My locati My locat
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make meals for Under
> $10. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=e...od00000002)
>

[ronmarabito2002]

You know, it's interesting talking about tires and what manufacturers use, but
there are so many differences between coaches, that one product does not satisfy
each RV's needs. The suspension geometry, weight, wheel base, etc. are all
different. The same thing applies to automobiles.

Let me give you a good example: I have an 88 Montero with all terrain Michelins
and they perform terrifically. I had a Range Rover with two sets of Michelin
all terrain tires and you couldn't keep them balanced for more than 2 weeks at a
time. Awful performance. I changed to Pirelli's and never had another problem
in 60,000 miles.

I just don't see Michelins as a be-all, end-all tire. There are many good ones
used on the right equipment. There are trucks, buses and RV's all over the
country running different tires successfully. Michelin has done a great PR job.

R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "birdshill123"
wrote:
>
> Here is something to consider: Go to any large RV dealer ( I think there are
still one or two in business). Look at all the Class A's. You will see 2 brands.
Goodyear and Michelin. If an RV mfr. could save 6x$200 per unit they would jump
at the chance. Why do you not see Sumitomos or Double Coin on the units? The
only RV mfr. I know of that tried another brand was National/ CC and that ended
up in a law suit (Toyo). Tiffin was installing GoodYears and had lots of
troubles. Bob Tiffin paid for Michelins to be installed at his expense. If a
customer wants GoodYears on his Tiffin they will NOT install them at the
factory.
>
>
> Bruce
>
> 1988 FC35
>

[Don Bradner]

Ron, are those 12R, or 315/80? Usually a big difference in price between the two
sizes.

On 3/27/2009 at 3:29 PM ronmarabito2002 wrote:

>I personally run another brand at a price of less than $500. I have done
>this for 15 years and never had a tire failure that was not caused by a
>road hazard.

[ronmarabito2002]

Don: They are 12R.

R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner" wrote:
>
> Ron, are those 12R, or 315/80? Usually a big difference in price between the
two sizes.
>
> On 3/27/2009 at 3:29 PM ronmarabito2002 wrote:
>
> >I personally run another brand at a price of less than $500. I have done
> >this for 15 years and never had a tire failure that was not caused by a
> >road hazard.
>

[Wayne Kotila]

Hi Ron, what brand of tires do you run on your coach, and are they rv tires?

Wayne, 1985 PT40

---

From: ronmarabito2002
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2009 10:29:47 AM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: 315/80 vs 12R - was Overweight

Bruce: I've had Michelin's and could not tell any advantage in handling. Unless they were compared under controlled conditions, I doubt anyone could, unless there was a significant difference in the construction. You might tell the difference in tires specifically designed for RV use as opposed to trucks.

I personally run another brand at a price of less than $500. I have done this for 15 years and never had a tire failure that was not caused by a road hazard.

All this being said, everyone does what makes them feel comfortable. I'd rather buy fuel so I can travel.

R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40

--- In "WanderlodgeForum%40yahoogroups.com", "birdshill123" wrote:
>
> Ron Marabito:
>
> Talking tires is like talking politics. Every one has
an opinion. I dont think an RV'r would install Michelins for read wear. AS you stated we will never wear them out. I just installed 6 Michelin XZE's on our 88FC35. I went for Michelin because they are the best. Better handling for one. You have to be very carefull when buying truck tires for an RV. Some are steer axle only. Some are drive axle only. I look at what the buses in Mexico run and it is Michelin by a long shot. There are cheaper options and I happen to think there is a reason why they spend the extra money. It is one thing to buy a cheap battery. If it fails you get another. Tires are the only thing between you and the road. If it fails....... ......... ...!
>
>
> Bruce
> 1988 FC35
>

[Pete Masterson]

In my research on the Toyo lawsuit, it appears that the RV manufacturer selected tires that were insufficient to carry the weight. Toyo no longer offers OEM tires to RV manufacturers.

Keep in mind that manufacturers select tire vendors based on competitive bidding -- and there may be very few bidders in the RV market. The tire manufacturers understand that vehicle owners are somewhat more likely to buy replacement tires from the same manufacturer if they were satisfied with the OEM tires.

Also, it is important to understand that OEM tires may have different specifications than tires on the replacement market. (Although the tire volume required by RV manufacturers may not justify unique specifications during manufacturing.)

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

On Mar 27, 2009, at 8:07 AM, birdshill123 wrote:

Here is something to consider: Go to any large RV dealer ( I think there are still one or two in business). Look at all the Class A's. You will see 2 brands. Goodyear and Michelin. If an RV mfr. could save 6x$200 per unit they would jump at the chance. Why do you not see Sumitomos or Double Coin on the units? The only RV mfr. I know of that tried another brand was National/ CC and that ended up in a law suit (Toyo). Tiffin was installing GoodYears and had lots of troubles. Bob Tiffin paid for Michelins to be installed at his expense. If a customer wants GoodYears on his Tiffin they will NOT install them at the factory.


Bruce

1988 FC35

[Kurt Horvath]

I have never gotten satisfaction from any mfg. when it comes to a claim for
their poor products, especally Goodyear, marathon trailer tires. now I have a
G-149 on my left tag, I would like to get rid of it, and replace it with a
Michelin so all tires will be of the same make and size. From these last posts I
see some of you have made the change to the 315's from the 12R's. I may do the
same next year when I cycle the steers to the rear. I have decided to replace
the steers every year to 18 months and sell the take offs, so far so good, last
go round got $500 for the old tires making the new tires, Michelin 12r22.5 $350
each, That's only $60 more per tire than the ones I put on my Pickup. When you
consider what tires do they are cheap. Buy the best tires you can find, get new
steers evry couple of years and after a while you'll have good rubber all the
time, just my $00.02


Kurt Horvath
95 Pt 42
10AC

Pasted below are a few items of interest

Runout Still There

While it's true that tiremakers are providing safer, more reliable,
longer-lasting medium truck tires than ever before, radial runout remains a sore
point. So the job of managing and understanding the problems caused by this
condition falls to you.

First, you need to understand that a pair of zeroes on a balancer (inner and
outer planes) does not mean you've properly balanced the tire/wheel assembly.
Your job isn't over until you center the assembly on the vehicle the same way it
was centered on the balancer.

Nor does it mean you've gotten rid of a built-in vibration problem created by a
tire or wheel that isn't perfectly round. There is still work to do.

Make sure you've mounted the tire/wheel assembly on the balancer properly. A
truck tire/wheel assembly that is 43-plus inches in diameter and weighs about
250 pounds will have more than several ounces of imbalance when mounted off
center by as little as 0.005 of an inch.

Follow the Fundamentals

The first secret to balancing medium truck tires is to make certain you are
mounting the tire/wheel assembly on the vehicle exactly the same way you mounted
it on the balancer. Replication is vital, and more so with truck tires than with
their smaller cousins.

You can help minimize radial runout by mounting the high spot of the tire
(indicated by a paint dot on the sidewall) to the low spot on the wheel
(indicated by a dimple). If you can't find the dimple, use the valve stem
opening as your reference point.

Don't mount the tire dry, use proper lubrication. The bead must seat properly on
the rim. Also important, don't limit the use of lubricant to the tire alone. If
you see a hump on the wheel that looks like a problem, put lubricant on it to
facilitate a better mounting job. But don't overlubricate or you'll have wheels
spinning loosely and tearing up beads.

When mounting medium truck tires, more errors occur with demountable and stud
pilot wheels than hub pilot wheels. That's because the inner cap nuts may not
have bottomed out all the way, and are improperly seated. Look for dirty threads
and make sure that torque specifications have been carefully followed.

Demountable wheel clamps can also contribute to a centering and/or vibration
imbalance problem. A tire/wheel mounted in this manner will wobble. That sets up
a scuffing motion which causes an irregular wear pattern and creates a vibration
in the vehicle. Worse, the driver, isolated in the cab, will not feel any of
this. You'll have to eyeball the tire and read the signs of irregular wear to
diagnose this problem.





September 24, 2008 – – CYPRESS, CALIFORNIA -- Toyo® brand tires have once again
been rated the #1 Overall Brand for Medium Truck Tires in Tire Review magazine's
annual Tire Brand Study of North American tire dealers. Toyo has received this
prestigious ranking four years in a row and a total of five times in the seven
years since the medium truck tire survey began.

November 01, 2003

Michelin medium truck tires have been ranked first in quality and innovation in
the 11th annual brand study conducted by Tire Review, a magazine for tire
dealers. The study's objective was to analyze tire dealers' perceptions of the
brands they carry. A total of 500 tire dealers were asked to rate each brand of
medium truck tire they sell in 19.5" to 24.5" sizes. Michelin tires scored 9.2
on product quality and 8.6 on product innovation on a scale of 10






--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "ronmarabito2002"
wrote:
>
> Try getting that kind of response from Michelin. I know of no one that has
ever been able to satisfy a claim with Michelin. If you know of someone, I'd
like to talk to them.
>
> R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, rogerwwebb@ wrote:
> >
> > FWIW - I now have Michelins.
> >
> > In 2007 I bought Goodyear G149 tires, which were a bit less expensive and I
> > thought would be just as good. I was wrong.
> >
> > I had catastrophic tread separation with less than 9,000 miles on two
> > separate occasions, both times caused damage to the coach. Goodyear
replaced the
> > tires and paid for the coach damage. However, as I did not trust the tires
I
> > asked for a refund or replacement of all the tires. Unfortunately the
G149's
> > were the only tire they made (including other brands they own) that fit and
> > although they offered to replace all the tires with new G149's I was uneasy
> > with such action, as they could/would not tell me why a new set was going
to
> > be better than the old set. I got disgusted and changed out to the
Michelins.
> > I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND GOODYEAR TIRES due to this experience.
> >
> > R. W. Webb
> > 91 WL
> > Cedar Rapids, IA
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 3/26/2009 9:44:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> > bluethunder@ writes:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I can only put it this way: tires are one thing I'm not looking for the
> > least expensive alternative.
> >
> > On 3/27/2009 at 12:26 AM ronmarabito2002 wrote:
> >
> > >Why would you want to pay +$200 to $300 per tire for Michelins? Do you
> > >actually perceive that additional value in your tires? I have yet to wear
> > >out any tire unless it was mis-aligned or damaged. Mine change due to age
> > >and a less expensive tire does the job.
> > >
> > >R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
> > >
> > >--- In _WanderlodgeForum@WanderlodgeFWan_
> > (mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com) , "Don Bradner"

> > >wrote:
> > >>
> > >> The price was $709.89 each, before a lot of taxes, etc.
> > >>
> > >> The MSRP is something over $800, but I'm not sure if anyone ever
charges
> > >full list.
> > >>
> > >> So far the X Coach is only 295/80, which is an inch less in diameter
> > >than the 315/80 XZA-2 and 1.3 inches less than the 12R XZE*
> > >>
> > >> To handle your weight, assuming equal weight on each axle end:
> > >> 315/80 XZA-2 95 PSI
> > >> 295/80 X-Coach 110 PSI
> > >> 12R XZE* 115 PSI
> > >>
> > >> On 3/26/2009 at 1:02 AM Bob Lawrence wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >Hi Don,
> > >> >What did you have to pay for the steer tires?
> > >> >Next month I want to get new steers.
> > >> >I see Michelin has new X Coach XZ bus tires on their website.
> > >> >Trying to figure what way to go.
> > >> >My front end is 13,800 lbs. now.
> > >> >Bob Lawrence
> > >> >84 PT36
> > >> >Laguna Atascosa NWR, Los Fresnos, Texas (Where a guy shot himself to
> > >death
> > >> >today)
> > >> >
> > >> >> Got my new steer tires today, 315/80R Michelin XZA-2 Energies. Moved
> > >my
> > >> >2+ year-old 12R XZE* to the tag.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Really happy to have the tires down near 100 lbs fully capable of
> > >> >handling the weight that took near 120 lbs on the 12Rs!
> > >> >>
> > >> >> The price of the tires though is one of those "gulp" items.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> A footnote: When I bought Blue Thunder I rather immediately had to
> > >> >replace the left front wheel because it had a severe crack that was
> > >> >intolerable for a steer wheel. Today it was pointed out that the left
> > >tag
> > >> >wheel had multiple cracks - some horseshoe from outer hole to inner
back
> > >> >to outer. Not good. The local tire place had a lot of excellent used
> > >ones,
> > >> >so I replaced that wheel. Going to have a lot of work to get it
looking
> > >as
> > >> >good as the other ones
> > >> >> Don Bradner
> > >> >> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> > >> >> My location: http://www.bbirdmaps. My locati My locat
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >------------------------------------
> > >> >
> > >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >------------------------------------
> > >
> > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make meals for Under
> > $10. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=e...od00000002)
> >
>

[Don Bradner]

That was what I figured. Any idea what your "other" brand would charge for a
good 315/80?

On 3/27/2009 at 6:02 PM ronmarabito2002 wrote:

>Don: They are 12R.
>
>R.E. (Ron) Marabito, Dallas, TX 92WB40
>
>--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Don Bradner"
>wrote:
>>
>> Ron, are those 12R, or 315/80? Usually a big difference in price between
>the two sizes.
>>
>> On 3/27/2009 at 3:29 PM ronmarabito2002 wrote:
>>
>> >I personally run another brand at a price of less than $500. I have
>done
>> >this for 15 years and never had a tire failure that was not caused by a
>> >road hazard.
>>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>