WHY DON'T WE HAVE AUTO GAS AT GAS STATIONS HERE LIKE THEY DO IN AUSTRALIA???

[David Brady]

Leroy,



It's cause bio fuels "complete the carbon cycle". To a degree anyway.

The idea is that thru photosynthesis, a plant converts sunlight and
carbon

dioxide into complex carbohydrates which we then convert into bio fuels.

Completing the carbon cycle means that the CO2 released into the
atmosphere

when we burn the bio-fuel is then removed from the atmosphere thru

photosynthesis. Compare this to burning dino fuels, where the CO2
released

is extracted from the ground and adds to "new" CO2 to the atmosphere.

This is one of the ways that scientists no that humans are responsible
for

global warming. We look at the age of the carbon in the atmosphere's
CO2.

What we're finding is that an ever larger percentage of the carbon
isotopes in

the atmosphere is the same carbon isotope found in dino fuels; i.e,
humans put

it there thru burning dino fuels.



David Brady

'02 LXi, NC



Leroy Eckert wrote:

Alright Pete, it has been 40 years since I did my college chemistry classes and I have not done a damn thing with it since. I have a question; don't mean to get into a chemistry class on the forum; just interested in something. If finished bio-diesel has a published average formula of C19H36O2 and average common diesel has a formula of C12H23 how is bio-diesel better for the air we breath? Does something happen in the combustion chamber?? Are the farmers stroking me?? CH4 is clean so to speak. Leroy Eckert 1990 WB-40 Royale Dahlonega, GA Smoke N Mirrors --- On Sat, 6/21/08, Pete Masterson com> wrote: From: Pete Masterson com> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: WHY DON'T WE HAVE AUTO GAS AT GAS STATIONS HERE LIKE THEY DO IN AUSTRALIA??? To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, June 21, 2008, 4:59 PM Yes, I was confused by the "autogas" thing. I thought it was CNG. However most of the points still apply, although LPG is slightly heavier per gallon. Natural gas is primarily methane (CH4) (with small amounts of a panoply of more complex gases -- butane, propane, etc.) while LPG is a mixture of various gases with the major component being either (or both) butane (C4H10) or/and propane (C3H8). Natural gas, being primarily methane, is considered a very clean fossil fuel due to the small carbon content (1 atom for every 4 hydrogen) as it produces the least CO2 per unit of weight of any in this class of fossil fuel. Pete Masterson '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42 El Sobrante CA "aeonix1@mac.com" On Jun 21, 2008, at 1:11 PM, Steve Pfiffner wrote: There seems to be some confusion, CNG (compressed natural gas) and LPG (evidently called Autogas in Australia and butane/propane in the US) are not really the same thing. Steve Wannabee

No virus found in this incoming message.

Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1511 - Release Date: 6/20/2008 11:52 AM

[Scott Forman]

Humans are not responsible for global warming. The sun is. The
earth's average temperatures have fallen for the last ten years,
coinciding with a reduction in solar activity as a part of the sun's
normal cycle. The mainstream media is ignoring this data, but sooner
or later the whole global warming deal is going to be blown out of
the water.

Scott Forman
86 PT38 that proudly belches hydrocarbons
Memphis

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, David Brady
wrote:
>
> Leroy,
>
> It's cause bio fuels "complete the carbon cycle". To a degree
anyway.
> The idea is that thru photosynthesis, a plant converts sunlight and
carbon
> dioxide into complex carbohydrates which we then convert into bio
fuels.
> Completing the carbon cycle means that the CO2 released into the
atmosphere
> when we burn the bio-fuel is then removed from the atmosphere thru
> photosynthesis. Compare this to burning dino fuels, where the CO2
released
> is extracted from the ground and adds to "new" CO2 to the
atmosphere.
> This is one of the ways that scientists no that humans are
responsible for
> global warming. We look at the age of the carbon in the
atmosphere's CO2.
> What we're finding is that an ever larger percentage of the carbon
> isotopes in
> the atmosphere is the same carbon isotope found in dino fuels; i.e,
> humans put
> it there thru burning dino fuels.
>
> David Brady
> '02 LXi, NC
>
> Leroy Eckert wrote:
> >
> > Alright Pete, it has been 40 years since I did my college
chemistry
> > classes and I have not done a damn thing with it since.
> > I have a question; don't mean to get into a chemistry class on
the
> > forum; just interested in something.
> > If finished bio-diesel has a published average formula of
C19H36O2 and
> > average common diesel has a formula of C12H23 how is bio-diesel
better
> > for the air we breath? Does something happen in the combustion
> > chamber?? Are the farmers stroking me?? CH4 is clean so to speak.
> >
> > Leroy Eckert
> > 1990 WB-40 Royale
> > Dahlonega, GA
> > Smoke N Mirrors
> >
> > --- On *Sat, 6/21/08, Pete Masterson //* wrote:
> >
> > From: Pete Masterson
> > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: WHY DON'T WE HAVE AUTO
GAS AT
> > GAS STATIONS HERE LIKE THEY DO IN AUSTRALIA???
> > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Saturday, June 21, 2008, 4:59 PM
> >
> > Yes, I was confused by the "autogas" thing. I thought it was
CNG.
> > However most of the points still apply, although LPG is
slightly
> > heavier per gallon.
> >
> >
> > Natural gas is primarily methane (CH4) (with small amounts of
a
> > panoply of more complex gases -- butane, propane, etc.) while
LPG
> > is a mixture of various gases with the major component being
> > either (or both) butane (C4H10) or/and propane (C3H8). Natural
> > gas, being primarily methane, is considered a very clean
fossil
> > fuel due to the small carbon content (1 atom for every 4
hydrogen)
> > as it produces the least CO2 per unit of weight of any in this
> > class of fossil fuel.
> >
> > Pete Masterson
> > '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42
> > El Sobrante CA
> > aeonix1@mac. com
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jun 21, 2008, at 1:11 PM, Steve Pfiffner wrote:
> >
> >> There seems to be some confusion, CNG (compressed natural
gas)
> >> and LPG
> >> (evidently called Autogas in
> >> Australia and butane/propane in the US) are not really the
same
> >> thing.
> >>
> >> Steve
> >> Wannabee
> >>
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1511 - Release Date:
6/20/2008 11:52 AM
> >
>

[Leroy Eckert]

Thank you for the information. I think I will buy orange juice futures tomorrow so that I can be one of those accused of running the price up via speculation; because the Florida orange groves are being removed to grow the next best greatest thing in Bio fuels. Jatropha. Orange juice can be frozen for quite a long time. Jatropha is more deadly potent than ricin from the castor bean. Its carbon footprint is three times that of Dino fuel. Diesel. I looked it up. Will it take three time more photosynthesis to get it done>>?? I am burnt out on reading the stuff. So if I buy orange juice futures tomorrow, who ran the price up? Me or the farmer who removed the orange trees?? No one ever considers what will happen with the food chain. Just some fuel for the tank and a stroke job about its effect on the air.. And no, I do not pay any attention to Al Gore. Photosynthesis does not put orange juice on my table in the morning. lol or soybeans, or corn. Well, perhaps it does, but not if the product is squashed for fuel and the resulting bio mass is used to run the electric plant. I just get so tired of hearing all these Washington folks whom we pay to run the joint run their mouth about issues they know exactly as much as I do about; issues that should have been address years ago by folks that really know what is going on----- Perhaps a genius like Einstein. By the way, citrus pulp is fed to milk cows. No oranges, no pulp. I hate goats milk. lol And the beat goes on, and on. I love it and I hate it and I will not lose any sleep over it. lol Leroy Eckert 1990 WB-40 Royale Dahlonega, GA Smoke N Mirrors --- On Sun, 6/22/08, David Brady wrote: From: David Brady Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: WHY DON'T WE HAVE AUTO GAS AT GAS STATIONS HERE LIKE THEY DO IN AUSTRALIA??? To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, June 22, 2008, 8:34 PM Leroy, It's cause bio fuels "complete the carbon cycle". To a degree anyway. The idea is that thru photosynthesis, a plant converts sunlight and carbon dioxide into complex carbohydrates which we then convert into bio fuels. Completing the carbon cycle means that the CO2 released into the atmosphere when we burn the bio-fuel is then removed from the atmosphere thru photosynthesis. Compare this to burning dino fuels, where the CO2 released is extracted from the ground and adds to "new" CO2 to the atmosphere. This is one of the ways that scientists no that humans are responsible for global warming. We look at the age of the carbon in the atmosphere's CO2. What we're finding is that an ever larger percentage of the carbon isotopes in the atmosphere is the same carbon isotope found in dino fuels; i.e, humans put it there thru burning dino fuels. David Brady '02 LXi, NC Leroy Eckert wrote: Alright Pete, it has been 40 years since I did my college chemistry classes and I have not done a damn thing with it since. I have a question; don't mean to get into a chemistry class on the forum; just interested in something. If finished bio-diesel has a published average formula of C19H36O2 and average common diesel has a formula of C12H23 how is bio-diesel better for the air we breath? Does something happen in the combustion chamber?? Are the farmers stroking me?? CH4 is clean so to speak. Leroy Eckert 1990 WB-40 Royale Dahlonega, GA Smoke N Mirrors --- On Sat, 6/21/08, Pete Masterson wrote: From: Pete Masterson Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: WHY DON'T WE HAVE AUTO GAS AT GAS STATIONS HERE LIKE THEY DO IN AUSTRALIA??? To: WanderlodgeForum@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, June 21, 2008, 4:59 PM Yes, I was confused by the "autogas" thing. I thought it was CNG. However most of the points still apply, although LPG is slightly heavier per gallon. Natural gas is primarily methane (CH4) (with small amounts of a panoply of more complex gases -- butane, propane, etc.) while LPG is a mixture of various gases with the major component being either (or both) butane (C4H10) or/and propane (C3H8). Natural gas, being primarily methane, is considered a very clean fossil fuel due to the small carbon content (1 atom for every 4 hydrogen) as it produces the least CO2 per unit of weight of any in this class of fossil fuel. Pete Masterson '95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42 El Sobrante CA "aeonix1@mac.com" On Jun 21, 2008, at 1:11 PM, Steve Pfiffner wrote: There seems to be some confusion, CNG (compressed natural gas) and LPG (evidently called Autogas in Australia and butane/propane in the US) are not really the same thing. Steve Wannabee No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.1/1511 - Release Date: 6/20/2008 11:52 AM

[Pete Masterson]

Hey Leroy,

It could be worse. I've lived in/near Berkeley since I was a kid. I've been hearing this kind of stuff for 40 years. Must be something in the tofu.

Pete Masterson

'95 Blue Bird Wanderlodge WBDA 42

El Sobrante CA

"aeonix1@mac.com"

On Jun 22, 2008, at 6:04 PM, Leroy Eckert wrote:

<snip>

I just get so tired of hearing all these Washington folks whom we pay to run the joint run their mouth about issues they know exactly as much as I do about;  issues that should have been address years ago by folks that really know what is going on----- <snip>