Engine & Tranny problems 2

[Don Bradner]

From what Martin says, the HP and torque are derived from power curves based on
things like throttle position and rpm. Use the parameter editor and change the
Horsepower setting - put in a multiplier of 0.95. He says leave the torque
settings alone. The HP would not be reduced by the fan being on - the HP
reaching the wheels would, and there's no way for them to see that.

Headed up to Grayland State Beach on the Washington coast for a weekend
gathering of RV internet folks, then we'll be hanging around the Portland area
for awhile.

Don Bradner
90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
Posting on the road by satellite from
Lincoln City, Oregon
Headed north


On 5/1/2007 at 2:36 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:

>I am using that because mine is not the California 450HP version, is
>reported to be 475HP and there is no option for it in the program. The
>program gave me the data which I really wanted to see, primarily
>temperatures. The numbers received completely support my previous test
>results over the past 8 months.
> If the engine is putting out 475HP instead of 500HP and I can change the
>program I'll sure do that. Otherwise, I'll not be concerned about 25hp.
>If I can change the parameters, I would only expect to see slightly lower
>Power Analysis numbers distributed the same across the board in the three
>fan configurations.
> Pretty nice little system to monitor the engine.
>Were you able to get the Raw temperature and other data that I posted from
>my trip? If the program is reading the DDECII properly and I believe it
>is, I find it very interesting that HP is not decreased by 10%(50hp or
>47.5hp as the case may be) when the hydraulic fan is on.
>How far North are you going?
>
>Leroy Eckert
>1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
>Niceville, FL
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Don Bradner
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 11:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Engine & Tranny problems 2
>
>
> Did you edit the parameters for your engine? The 475 doesn't exist in
>the profiles, and both HP and torque are calculated based on the engine
>profile - It sounds like you are using the 500.
>
> Don Bradner
> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> Posting on the road by satellite from
> Lincoln City, Oregon
> Headed north
>
> On 4/30/2007 at 2:55 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:
>
> >Hey Greg:
> >I just got back from the largest redneck party in the universe that is
> >Talladega.
> > I have a lot of raw data that I collected on the trip that I will be
> >posting as soon as I can organize it into a chart. Hopefully tonight. I
> >even got to pull some bunny hills in the Birmingham area.
> >For a while I have known that Alarmstat value artificially pushes water
> >temp, tranny temp, retarder temp and engine oil temps higher.
> >As well, I have always thought the fan override robs power and have
>always
> >used fan override as you do, to cool the components. I may be rethinking
> >that now. One very interesting piece of data that I collected is this.
> >In all three configurations, Alarmsat controlled, chassis a/c on(fan at
> >1800rpm) and fan override on(1800 RPM, chassis a/c off and out of the
> >system) , I was able to pull 501HP and 1447FtLbs of torque at 100%
> >throttle, engine load 100%. Those are the top numbers. Boost was 22psi.
> >These numbers occurred at about 1900 rpm. It is hard to drive the bus
>and
> >write but these numbers are very close.
> >
> >My analog gauges are closer than one could have imagined.
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Leroy Eckert]

Greg, I do not know the answer regarding the HP loss. I do know the following
from testing over the last 8 months:
1.Don B is far more astute with the computer than I will ever be. I doubt that
torque is measured at the axel but from the DDEC II. I think Don has the same
Allison HT-755CR 5 speed tranny as I do.
2. The Alarmstat artificially forces temperatures higher than I like presumably
to prevent a horse power reduction and in doing so causes water temperature to
push the outer limit for the Detroit 8v92.
3. I have not been able to force the engine thermostats to cycle under any
conditions, therefore, I am no longer concerned with them fighting the Alarmstat
control.
4. If one uses the chassis a/c the hydraulic fan runs continuously and if it
decreases HP it will do so under either configuration a/c on or fan override on.
5. The pump which operates the hydraulic fan is constantly pushing oil to
operate the fan at "idle" (500rpm or so), the power steering pump, and bypasses
the rest of the oil volume much like fuel pumps do on most fuel injected diesel
engines. When the override or the chassis a/c is engaged there is a slight
momentary dip in engine RPM, thereafter, all is well. The oil is redirected
elsewhere. ie, full fan RPM. I have yet to conclude if that robs HP. I may
never figure that out.
6. In configurations where the chassis a/c condenser is in front of the radiator
water temps will be higher when the a/c is on. For instance, Curt's bus will
run a lower temperature than mine will simply because his a/c condenser is on
the roof. Same for Steve's 1990 Circus Bus, Jus Chillin. He has changed to a
190 degree Alarmstat and has seen reduced temperatures overall.
7. I purchased the VMSpc to read real time data to check my analog gauges and to
obtain fault codes should they occur, not to look at it continuously while
driving. Others use the system for different purposes.
8. I would rather pull the Box Springs grade beginning with a water temperature
of 177 degrees as opposed to 191. I hope to do that one of these days .

And you are correct. Stay'n in a double wide is not out of the question for the
folks at Talladega. What a time. Been to California Motor Speedway, Texas
Motor Speedway and Daytona as well. Comparatively, the activity inside is akin
to a Republican Convention and I am Republican. lol

Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
Niceville, FL
Is Truck Roost on Valley Blvd in Fontana still operating. I owned it between
1988 and 1996.





----- Original Message -----
From: Gregory OConnor
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 6:47 PM
Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Engine & Tranny problems 2


Leroy, I dont know that the HP will read less with the fan on. I
think it is more a loss of 40hp with the fan because it is directed
to the effort of running the fan at the expense of the ground drive.

When I added a jake to a truck they refered to the holding power as
HorsePower of hold???? I wonder if your computer has a way to read
the HP backpressure hold with and without the Allison Retarder? I am
curious if You and DonB have the same HP hold. I think Don has an
different Allison and a larger external retarder (like Curts 87)?????

I wait for the computer to turn on the fan in my hydrolic driven PT .
In my Dump truck Cummins N14 the fan is on an air clutch with a belt,
Like the FC's. I turn it on via a 'fan on switch' prior to a hill
(boxsprings Riverside 60/215)when I can back off of the RPM's. I
hate clutching up the fan at high rpms.

Talladega has nothing on the crowd in Fontana. When I rolled in with
my lodge a spectator said " We was gonna bring ours to stay'n but
it'sa doublewide."

GregoryO'Connor
94ptRomolandCa 'SingleWide NoSlide'
--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Leroy Eckert"
wrote:
>
> I am using that because mine is not the California 450HP version,
is reported to be 475HP and there is no option for it in the program.
The program gave me the data which I really wanted to see, primarily
temperatures. The numbers received completely support my previous
test results over the past 8 months.
> If the engine is putting out 475HP instead of 500HP and I can
change the program I'll sure do that. Otherwise, I'll not be
concerned about 25hp. If I can change the parameters, I would only
expect to see slightly lower Power Analysis numbers distributed the
same across the board in the three fan configurations.
> Pretty nice little system to monitor the engine.
> Were you able to get the Raw temperature and other data that I
posted from my trip? If the program is reading the DDECII properly
and I believe it is, I find it very interesting that HP is not
decreased by 10%(50hp or 47.5hp as the case may be) when the
hydraulic fan is on.
> How far North are you going?
>
> Leroy Eckert
> 1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
> Niceville, FL
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Don Bradner
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 11:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Engine & Tranny problems 2
>
>
> Did you edit the parameters for your engine? The 475 doesn't
exist in the profiles, and both HP and torque are calculated based on
the engine profile - It sounds like you are using the 500.
>
> Don Bradner
> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> Posting on the road by satellite from
> Lincoln City, Oregon
> Headed north
>
> On 4/30/2007 at 2:55 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:
>
> >Hey Greg:
> >I just got back from the largest redneck party in the universe
that is
> >Talladega.
> > I have a lot of raw data that I collected on the trip that I
will be
> >posting as soon as I can organize it into a chart. Hopefully
tonight. I
> >even got to pull some bunny hills in the Birmingham area.
> >For a while I have known that Alarmstat value artificially
pushes water
> >temp, tranny temp, retarder temp and engine oil temps higher.
> >As well, I have always thought the fan override robs power and
have always
> >used fan override as you do, to cool the components. I may be
rethinking
> >that now. One very interesting piece of data that I collected is
this.
> >In all three configurations, Alarmsat controlled, chassis a/c on
(fan at
> >1800rpm) and fan override on(1800 RPM, chassis a/c off and out
of the
> >system) , I was able to pull 501HP and 1447FtLbs of torque at
100%
> >throttle, engine load 100%. Those are the top numbers. Boost was
22psi.
> >These numbers occurred at about 1900 rpm. It is hard to drive
the bus and
> >write but these numbers are very close.
> >
> >My analog gauges are closer than one could have imagined.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Leroy Eckert]

Have a good trip. I will change the setting. I am going out this weekend, will
not have any significant hills to work with but I should be able to get an idea
of what it does. It should be in the 90's this weekend.

Leroy Eckert
1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
Niceville, FL




----- Original Message -----
From: Don Bradner
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 7:43 PM
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Engine & Tranny problems 2


From what Martin says, the HP and torque are derived from power curves based
on things like throttle position and rpm. Use the parameter editor and change
the Horsepower setting - put in a multiplier of 0.95. He says leave the torque
settings alone. The HP would not be reduced by the fan being on - the HP
reaching the wheels would, and there's no way for them to see that.

Headed up to Grayland State Beach on the Washington coast for a weekend
gathering of RV internet folks, then we'll be hanging around the Portland area
for awhile.

Don Bradner
90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
Posting on the road by satellite from
Lincoln City, Oregon
Headed north

On 5/1/2007 at 2:36 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:

>I am using that because mine is not the California 450HP version, is
>reported to be 475HP and there is no option for it in the program. The
>program gave me the data which I really wanted to see, primarily
>temperatures. The numbers received completely support my previous test
>results over the past 8 months.
> If the engine is putting out 475HP instead of 500HP and I can change the
>program I'll sure do that. Otherwise, I'll not be concerned about 25hp.
>If I can change the parameters, I would only expect to see slightly lower
>Power Analysis numbers distributed the same across the board in the three
>fan configurations.
> Pretty nice little system to monitor the engine.
>Were you able to get the Raw temperature and other data that I posted from
>my trip? If the program is reading the DDECII properly and I believe it
>is, I find it very interesting that HP is not decreased by 10%(50hp or
>47.5hp as the case may be) when the hydraulic fan is on.
>How far North are you going?
>
>Leroy Eckert
>1990 WB-40"Smoke N Mirrors"
>Niceville, FL
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Don Bradner
> To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 11:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: Engine & Tranny problems 2
>
>
> Did you edit the parameters for your engine? The 475 doesn't exist in
>the profiles, and both HP and torque are calculated based on the engine
>profile - It sounds like you are using the 500.
>
> Don Bradner
> 90 PT40 "Blue Thunder"
> Posting on the road by satellite from
> Lincoln City, Oregon
> Headed north
>
> On 4/30/2007 at 2:55 PM Leroy Eckert wrote:
>
> >Hey Greg:
> >I just got back from the largest redneck party in the universe that is
> >Talladega.
> > I have a lot of raw data that I collected on the trip that I will be
> >posting as soon as I can organize it into a chart. Hopefully tonight. I
> >even got to pull some bunny hills in the Birmingham area.
> >For a while I have known that Alarmstat value artificially pushes water
> >temp, tranny temp, retarder temp and engine oil temps higher.
> >As well, I have always thought the fan override robs power and have
>always
> >used fan override as you do, to cool the components. I may be rethinking
> >that now. One very interesting piece of data that I collected is this.
> >In all three configurations, Alarmsat controlled, chassis a/c on(fan at
> >1800rpm) and fan override on(1800 RPM, chassis a/c off and out of the
> >system) , I was able to pull 501HP and 1447FtLbs of torque at 100%
> >throttle, engine load 100%. Those are the top numbers. Boost was 22psi.
> >These numbers occurred at about 1900 rpm. It is hard to drive the bus
>and
> >write but these numbers are very close.
> >
> >My analog gauges are closer than one could have imagined.
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]