RIV Report?

[Jack & Donna Smith]

Macy, your report was very good. You stated things in a
understandable and informative manner. Although our Bird is at the
opposite end from a brand new one, that dosent mean we are not
interested in the company and it's products.
We are 10 times closer to CCW that Pete is, and we will certianly use
them on any future service or repairs. On our last time at CCW, we
were treated very well, and the repairs were done with great care, as
was promised.
Thank You Macy
Jack Smith
1973FC31
SoCal.



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Macy Neshati
wrote:
>
> I have wrestled with my response for two full days now and I still
don't
> know where to start. I will for sure start by thanking several
people
> including Curt Sprenger, Eric Perplies, David Brady, Ernie, and Tom
Warner
> for their support and to answer a simple question from Jim
> Riorden regarding the number of Blue Birds at the 2007 RIV it was
198 not
> the 400 that it has grown to by some accounts in the last few days
of these
> posts.
>
> Just as importantly, I want to apologize for my failure to attend
this years
> rally. It was my idea to move it, I thought it would be fun and a
change of
> pace, and last year at the RIV our informal poll of attendees showed
> overwhelming support. However as this year has unfolded we have been
> besieged by the worst economic downturn in recent history, a credit
crisis,
> a further blow as a result of the axle recall that we could not have
> anticipated
> the death of our CEO's brother and business partner this past April
forcing
> Dale to become active in two additional business units, and capped
off with
> my personal health issues. As many of you know I have been battling
with
> Parkinsons for several years now and this past 90 days my symptoms
finally
> outran the medications ability to control them, forcing me to spend
several
> weeks with my doctors experimenting with new drugs and doses and
deciding
> which side effects I could live with for the relative relief
> they provided. Consequently as I was under physicians care at the
time I
> simply could not make it. Dale has been consumed in dealing with
the loss of
> his brother, consolidating the companies and dealing with issues I
would
> normally be responsible for and therefore was covering a pressing
business
> obligation for me.
>
> Not wishing to reveal too much of my or Dale's personal struggles I
asked
> Rick Clayton to simply apologize for our absence and hope that
people would
> understand that there may be years were circumstances simply won't
allow
> Dale and or I to attend. However the very vial and personal nature
of the
> attacks that have ensued over the last few days have compelled me
to share
> my situation more openly as the last thing I expected to do is to
> offend any of you by taking our lack of presence as a lack of
interest or
> desire to be with you.
>
> I must take very strong and pointed exception to Mr. Chaffin's
attacks first
> and foremost on behalf of the company and the hardworking people
who have
> labored against all odds to succeed in these adverse times, and
secondly on
> behalf of myself for being called a liar, not just once but several
times by
> Mr. Chaffin. In over 30 years as a business executive I have never
witnessed
> this lack of civility. How many of you think it is
> acceptable for someone who has a different perspective on a set of
> circumstances than you do, to go on a public forum and call you a
liar? Has
> the internet, emails, blogs and such dehumanized us to the point
that we
> find it OK to publicly slander and defame people? Does this forum
find this
> behavior acceptable?
>
> I will not dignify Mr. Chaffin's allegations and claims of warranty
on this
> site and in this public arena. I will state emphatically that we
have spent
> millions of dollars covering warranty claims on units that we felt
were
> legitimate and there are hundreds of you out there that know this
is true as
> you have been the beneficiaries of our warranty work. I have dozens
and
> dozens of emails from customers thanking us for our hard work on
> Their behalf and in many cases telling us we fixed the problem when
the
> previous owners couldn't.
>
> I do want to address many of the false allegations from several of
you that
> have appeared over the last few days: That we built all the M380
and LXI's
> and profited from them but won't spend the warranty money.
> FACT
> We did not build a single M380, and only one 450 LXI, and the
owners of the
> one we built reported to me as recently as a week ago that they
love it and
> have had great joy from it. However we have poured millions into
warranty
> coverage on legitimate warranty
>
> "They knew about the axle problem when they bought the company"
> FACT
> We did not have any knowledge of the axle problem when we bought the
> company, this particular piece of slander is particularly
disturbing on many
> fronts, but simply put, we aren't stupid, we would never have
purchased the
> company knowing this, the impact on owner confidence, the costly
recall
> process, not counting the repair cost, and the delay in coming to
market
> based on the need to completely redesign and reengineer the unit
would have
> been more than enough to stop the deal. And we all know where that
> Would have left Wanderlodge and you all. Cerberus had stopped all
work on
> the Wanderlodges, and were ready to shut down the business had we
not bought
> it.
>
> Instead, we bought the business, redesigned the product to meet
weight
> requirements, and went right down the line to fix the historic weak
points,
> we engineered fixes for leaks, slides were a problem, went back to
HWH
> slides, inverters were a problem went to two Trace pure sine wave
4000 watt
> inverters, house wiring a problem, went to the industry standard
spyder
> controls, the list goes on and on.
>
> We were confronted with the front axle problem, forced Blue Bird
Body to the
> table, got them to file the NHTSA recall and have worked night and
day with
> owners to get their units as functional as possible. You want to
scoff and
> belittle the fix? Don't scoff at us, we are doing everything in our
power to
> fix a problem we didn't and would not have created.
>
> Many owners are thrilled with their reworked units, they have ample
cargo
> capacity, better handling due to a lower CG and a quieter less
vibrating
> generator installation. Are some unhappy, sure, again, not our
fault, not
> our problem but we have done everything in our power to make things
as right
> as we can. I truly and honestly don't understand how this issue is
turned on
> us in anger.
>
> Now to our future and the Wanderlodge's survival. Roughly 16 months
ago when
> we bought the company it was widely believed in the industry that
the
> economy was stable, that the RV industry was continuing to grow and
would
> through at least 2009. If you don't believe me go look up last years
> University of Michigan RV industry economic report, widely held as
the bible
> for the industry.
>
> Look were we sit today, two out of the three largest lenders to the
RV
> industry, Wachovia and GE are out of the business, National RV....
Bankrupt
> gone, Weekend Warrior, Bankrupt gone, several other smaller guys,
gone...
> Fleetwood, stock at .25 cents, delisted from the New York stock
exchange,
> nearly gone, Monaco, hanging on by a thread, their dealers have no
more
> floor plan money to buy anymore units, nothing is selling.
>
> RV sales..down 60% and what is selling is at massive discounts, no
one is
> making money. Ten Thousand RV's in San Diego, gone, La Mesa,
closing and
> consolidating stores.
>
> Why don't we have dealers?? The credit crisis has left them with no
floor
> plan money. Simply put they can't afford to buy a stock unit.
>
> So here is the greatest contradiction I have heard yet, "We don't
want to
> see
> CCW fail"
>
> "But I won't buy a new Blue Bird because what if CCW fails"......
anyone
> else
> see the flaw here?
>
> If we don't sell RV's how do we survive? if you want to see us
survive,
> you need to buy Blue Birds... If you don't buy Blue Birds, you not
only
> guarantee our demise... You are responsible for it.
>
> Someone else steps in to criticize us for being late with the 2009
RV for
> the
> FMCA, and for the poor showing our then dealer made of coaches.
>
> The axle issue came up and forced us to redesign the RV to provide
a product
> with respectable cargo capacity on a legal front end. Do you know
the work
> that goes into that kind of engineering feat? While juggling a
recall? What
> you should be proud of is that your brand has new owners that
refused to
> build or ship a product that wasn't engineered or built correctly,
even if
> it missed the whole show.
>
> Our company has poured double digit millions into this Brand to
keep the
> doors open what has that meant to you? So you could get warranty on
product
> we didn't build and wouldn't have built or shipped as designed, to
perform
> recall work for defects in design we didn't design on product we
didn't
> build, to redesign and reengineer a Blue Bird Product to make you
and us
> proud, we decided to trudge on through the worst economy in recent
memory
> and a credit crunch like nothing we have ever seen, and we
> built a beautiful Premier XL. But Mr. Chaffin goes on and on about
where to
> get them fixed and blasts us for not having dealers. what if we
hadn't
> bought the company? No telling how the recall would have gone, who
would
> have done your warranty. How many of you have benefited from us
being here
> to fix your units both in Riverside and Fort Valley? To buy parts
from us?
> Have we had turn over? Sure, people will get scared as a company
slows down
> and has to right size in this type of economic crisis and some will
jump
> ship, is that something to go online and blast us for?
>
> And on a final false assertion by Mr. Chaffin, the 2006 we brought
to
> Branson would have to be parked by the new owner, not useable.
>
> FACT
> It has had the recall done, is fully functional has outstanding
front end
> weight numbers and wouldn't have to be parked in anyone's driveway
other
> than to restock for the next journey.
>
> I have said enough, maybe too much....we have done all we can, we
fixed the
> Design problems, enhanced the product with top of the line
features, provide
> a better ride than any Prevost, build a tougher more rugged chassis
than
> Prevost or Newell, enhanced our warranty by going to a 12 year
chassis,
> structure and body warranty and provide better craftsmanship and
> construction than a fiberglass Newell.
>
> The rest is up to you. No company, no matter how well financed,
stays in
> business if the product isn't selling, not because they run out of
cash, it
> just isn't good judgment.
>
> For now, we are tightening our belts and weathering the storm. We
have a
> beautiful 2009 (RV 02) for sale, Our first 2009, as many saw at
Branson is a
> 1 1/2 bath that was purchased by George and Vel Kistler. We are so
grateful
> for their support and loyalty.
>
> We do understand the importance and the value of a good rally. But
given the
> unique nature of the economic crisis we are faced with, the almost
daily
> business failures, and the need to find ways to weather this storm
we made
> judgment calls as to where to place priorities, we didn't mean to
slight
> anyone, and we will work hard to return next years rally to its
previous
> glory.
>
> But I stand by our decisions this year and ask you
> to consider walking a mile in the other guys shoe before lashing
out. It is
> seldom as simple and as clear cut as it seems looking in.
> As always, travel safe
> Macy
>
>
>
> Macy
> Macy Neshati
> Vice President, Sales & Marketing
> Complete Coach Works & Blue Bird Coachworks
> Office: 951-684-9585 Cell: 951-836-6525 Fax: 951-684-9585
> Visit Our Websites: http://www.completecoach.com
&http://www.bluebirdcoachworks.com
>

[Wallace Craig]

Your response is that of a true gentleman. Your explanation is that of an honorable business executive with knowledge of the problem and the consumers interest at heart. Our prayers are for a total recovery. I hope that a lesson is carried in this information to all; don't judge unless you have walked in the other persons shoes, you just cannot know. Namaste Wallace Craig 95 WLWB 42 Azle, Texas --- On Wed, 10/29/08, mneshati2 wrote: From: mneshati2 Subject: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: RIV Report? To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, October 29, 2008, 4:26 AM Dear Greg, don't know you other than this forum, don't believe I have ever knowingly did you wrong, I know I have never wished you ill or even crossed paths with you. I am at a loss as to how you can be so hateful towards a person you don't know and a company whose business you don't know. your constant attacks, nasty words, uninformed assumptions and hateful rehtoric is just astonishing. You have distain for a company that has bought a brand to preserve and build on, poured millions into it, and instantly side with a Blue Birder simply by reading his version of a disagreement, never asked our perspective, but clearly by suggesting Mr. Chaffin should post his "promise not granted" is indication you have no idea what the issue is really about, but you assume Mr. Chaffin is right and once again blindly attack me and CCW. Sorry, not my style man, I can't hate someone I don't even know, can't wish ill on someone who has never hurt me, can't really even wish ill on those that do try to hurt me. I wish you peace man, don't know what is eating you but this type of hate and attempts to hurt and discredit... I don't understand, another of your emails you slam us as "repowering crap" why don't you take the time to come by and have a cup of coffee, look at our business, meet our staff, our technicians, hard working good people trying to make a living as you lash out at their company and try to harm it, look in their eyes and see if they deserve your hate and disdain.... Even in these trying economic times, life is a blessing man, each day we wake up is a gift from the Good Lord, we can only be sure of the moment we are in, we could be gone in an instant and we never ever know when that instant is. Do you really want the fabric of your life to be filled with hateful words and ill wishes towards others? What if by some small chance you are wrong about me? About CCW and our motives? And yet you tarnished us with your words, your hatefulness, your ill wishes? Are you really ok with that? Peace Man, Life is too short for hate, I dont have time for it. I wish you peace, prosperity, good fortune, laughter and Good Health. Come see me someday, Macy --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor" wrote: > > Dear John, your post sounds like something written by the public > relations department of ccw. I think we should gang up on Macy and > see to it that Lloyd gets some satisfaction or learns that his > expectations are not attainable for what ever reason. if you read > Lloyds post and reread your reply, it sounds like more of the same > excuse rederic he has been getting. People vent to seek action and > assistance,its not always a yoga exersize. Maybe Llyod could post > the promise not granted. > > GregoryO'Connor > 94ptRomolandCa > > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, jvredden@ wrote: > > > > Dear Lloyd, > > > > > > Most every point you made is valid. CCW has had issues supporting > the > > existing coaches. That said ...they are trying. It's far better > than having no > > one pick up BB. > > > > > > Not trying to stir up a hornet's nest but......I'm glad you got > that off > > your chest and hope you feel better! > > I too was at the Branson RITV. It was nice but, like you stated, > it was not > > like other RITV's. Rick Clayton from BB was there and had tried > to organize > > the event. I asked him why the question answer sessions and > technical > > seminars were not available. He indicated to me that he was not > aware that RITV's > > in the past had offered them. He was in effect offering a rally > as he > > understood rallys to be. I do not think he understood the unique > offerings of > > RITV of the past and the expectations of Bluebirders. Please > send him your > > suggestions at BB. He seemed quite open to what I suggested. > Given that he had > > no concept of past RITV, I think he did ok. It was different and > not like > > other RITVs, but if you went to the Branson RITV expecting to see > the same as > > past RITVs, you might question if you were realistic in your > expectations. > > The RATS organization > > (Wanderlodgeownersforum.com) moderated by Randy, John, and Rob is > a great > > source of info on all BB. They have a get together a couple times > a year. > > Very loosely structured organization and that's the way they want > to keep it. > > However, you will not find a kinder, more helpful group of > folks. Try them > > out. > > > > > > My thought is that CCW needed an east coast facility and BB mfg > plant > > offered that for them. They state that CCW is #1 in NG > conversion of buses. I > > would think their market position is as good as any. I don't > think they are > > expecting to make money on the new Wanderlodge initially. I > think they feel a > > market continues to exist for high end coaches ( remember, in > hard economic > > times, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer...why am I > always on the > > losing end?) I am glad they are trying to deliver a new product > in a market > > that is not conducive to any new products. Remember just this > year Mfg, > > National, See Ya, and Western RV ( Alpine coach) went out of > business. At least, we > > are in a better position than those coach owners. > > > > I think other Bluebirders need our help and support. I think CCW > needs it > > as well. Your points are well taken...now let's focus on the > positive. You > > have a wonderful coach. You are blessed to be able to have it. > Enjoy the > > process of trying to keep it top notch and run the wheels off of > it. > > > > > > john redden > > 91 PT-40 > > **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of your > favorites, > > no registration required and great graphics â¤" check it out! > > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x...89022/aol? > redir= > > http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001) > > > ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WanderlodgeForum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:WanderlodgeForum-digest@yahoogroups.com mailto:WanderlodgeForum-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: WanderlodgeForum-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[g_man1146]

Macy,

While I don't often post here, I was about to attempt to come to
CCW's defense and state my very positive experiences at the Fort
Valley plant but you have, far better, addressed the situation.

My problems were addressed professionally, completely and performed
in a timely manner. The experience renewed my faith in the brand I
have come to admire so much over 17+ years of ownership. After seeing
the quality and service decline prior to the purchase by CCW it was a
joy to do business with caring professionals.

While at the factory I did hear complaints about CCW which I could
not understand because they were about a coach not made by CCW, with
parts (defective) made by a third party. Sometimes owners
frustrations are misplaced, when that happens it should be taken as
such. IMO, CCW is the best thing to happen to Wanderlodge in many
years and I have previously posted that thought on other forums.

As far as the RITV, sure I was disappointed that it moved from
the "Valley" because we intended to go for reasons stated below.
Having hosted a Wanderlodge rally, I know first hand what is involved
in planing and in the cost. The RITV, over the years has taken on its
own special, unique form. From the impromptu tailgate parties in the
staging area before the rally to walking around hundreds of coaches
reuniting with old friends and making of new ones, to the informative
seminars where we learn the intricacies of these fine machines it was
truly a distinct experience that made one proud to be a Wanderlodge
owner. The functions, vendors, entertainment, etc. added to the fun.
The only objection I ever heard was that some wanted to attend
without the frills that raised the cost. It had been suggested that
perhaps a "bare bones" RITV could be held one year and a "Gala Event"
the next. That way one could attend the one of their liking or both
types if they desire. The Family of Friends Chapter has scheduled
rallies at various places alternating east and west coasts each year.
They are fun but none offer the RITV experience. I can't blame those
that miss this exceptional, one of a kind event.

It is my belief that 99% of Wanderlodge owners will rally around the
factory and brand and will support your efforts to keep more of these
wonderful machines in production and the existing ones up and
running. You will always find some that are unhappy or just
frustrated. One can do no more than try to make things right within
reasonable limitations and, I am sure, there will be times where
there will be no satisfactory conclusion. These situations though, I
believe will be very rare based upon my observations of the
commitment to quality I have observed.

I can not close without wishing you the best for good health. All
else is secondary.

Regards,
Rich Ducci '99LXi43' CT

[erniecarpet@...]

Brenda and I have been unable to attend a RIV since we were there in 2004. If my business was booming now like it was then, we would have been there, for sure.

Ernie Ekberg
83PT40
Weatherford, Texas

---

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[Gregory OConnor]

Macy, the BlueBirder called you a liar. He must have been upset
enough to post and do that, maybe not. thats why I asked him to
post the 'promise not granted'. Maybe he just under stood a delay of
action or one other tactical responce as an offer to satify his
claim. I dont think you owe me 'your perspective' . If his
warrenty issue is lagitamate and someone has the obligation to do
the repair, would be curious to know where you stand on that? Maybe
you could help him go after the builder of his bus??

Lloyd now looks like he should be shamefull of asking for repairs.
His take on the riv thing I shure was tainted by his overall feeling
so that ws an easy responce to address. Bus warrenty was never
addressed. I bet he never gets a derictive other than continued
delay. I too think he should move on, but for different reasons. I
on the otherhand, still look the same.

Just yesterday Tim and I ended a two year battle to keep Sarah
safe. Some forum members know Sara. She is the 83 year old lady
that I post 'washes our bus'. She retired with over $50,000 per the
year income but could not be protected from her user kids. At times
forced to live rent free in one of our rentals. we fought fought and
fought with local and state agencies to help. I ended up sitting
on my hands back of police cars 5 times, spent thousands of dollars
and was even shot at. Always kept safe and healthy, no one
could/would help. All I ever got was 'tactical continued delay'. I
cried when they took the cuffs off the fith time because I knew my
promise to give up the fight in exchange for the removal was only
legal but 'so not right'. every one has a story

Greg94ptCa


--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "mneshati2"
wrote:

>
> Dear Greg, don't know you other than this forum, don't believe I
have ever knowingly did
> you wrong, I know I have never wished you ill or even crossed
paths with you. I am at a
> loss as to how you can be so hateful towards a person you don't
know and a company
> whose business you don't know.
>
> your constant attacks, nasty words, uninformed assumptions and
hateful rehtoric is just
> astonishing. You have distain for a company that has bought a
brand to preserve and
> build on, poured millions into it, and instantly side with a Blue
Birder simply by reading his
> version of a disagreement, never asked our perspective, but
clearly by suggesting Mr.
> Chaffin should post his "promise not granted" is indication you
have no idea what the
> issue is really about, but you assume Mr. Chaffin is right and
once again blindly attack me
> and CCW.
>
> Sorry, not my style man, I can't hate someone I don't even know,
can't wish ill on someone
> who has never hurt me, can't really even wish ill on those that do
try to hurt me.
>
> I wish you peace man, don't know what is eating you but this type
of hate and attempts to
> hurt and discredit... I don't understand, another of your emails
you slam us as "repowering
> crap"
>
> why don't you take the time to come by and have a cup of coffee,
look at our business,
> meet our staff, our technicians, hard working good people trying
to make a living as you
> lash out at their company and try to harm it, look in their eyes
and see if they deserve your
> hate and disdain....
>
> Even in these trying economic times, life is a blessing man, each
day we wake up is a gift
> from the Good Lord, we can only be sure of the moment we are in,
we could be gone in an
> instant and we never ever know when that instant is. Do you really
want the fabric of your
> life to be filled with hateful words and ill wishes towards
others? What if by some small
> chance you are wrong about me? About CCW and our motives? And yet
you tarnished us
> with your words, your hatefulness, your ill wishes? Are you really
ok with that?
>
> Peace Man, Life is too short for hate, I dont have time for it. I
wish you peace, prosperity,
> good fortune, laughter and Good Health.
>
> Come see me someday,
> Macy
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Gregory OConnor"

> wrote:
> >
> > Dear John, your post sounds like something written by the public
> > relations department of ccw. I think we should gang up on Macy
and
> > see to it that Lloyd gets some satisfaction or learns that his
> > expectations are not attainable for what ever reason. if you
read
> > Lloyds post and reread your reply, it sounds like more of the
same
> > excuse rederic he has been getting. People vent to seek action
and
> > assistance,its not always a yoga exersize. Maybe Llyod could
post
> > the promise not granted.
> >
> > GregoryO'Connor
> > 94ptRomolandCa
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, jvredden@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Lloyd,
> > >
> > >
> > > Most every point you made is valid. CCW has had issues
supporting
> > the
> > > existing coaches. That said ...they are trying. It's far
better
> > than having no
> > > one pick up BB.
> > >
> > >
> > > Not trying to stir up a hornet's nest but......I'm glad you
got
> > that off
> > > your chest and hope you feel better!
> > > I too was at the Branson RITV. It was nice but, like you
stated,
> > it was not
> > > like other RITV's. Rick Clayton from BB was there and had
tried
> > to organize
> > > the event. I asked him why the question answer sessions and
> > technical
> > > seminars were not available. He indicated to me that he was
not
> > aware that RITV's
> > > in the past had offered them. He was in effect offering a
rally
> > as he
> > > understood rallys to be. I do not think he understood the
unique
> > offerings of
> > > RITV of the past and the expectations of Bluebirders. Please
> > send him your
> > > suggestions at BB. He seemed quite open to what I
suggested.
> > Given that he had
> > > no concept of past RITV, I think he did ok. It was different
and
> > not like
> > > other RITVs, but if you went to the Branson RITV expecting to
see
> > the same as
> > > past RITVs, you might question if you were realistic in your
> > expectations.
> > > The RATS organization
> > > (Wanderlodgeownersforum.com) moderated by Randy, John, and Rob
is
> > a great
> > > source of info on all BB. They have a get together a couple
times
> > a year.
> > > Very loosely structured organization and that's the way they
want
> > to keep it.
> > > However, you will not find a kinder, more helpful group of
> > folks. Try them
> > > out.
> > >
> > >
> > > My thought is that CCW needed an east coast facility and BB
mfg
> > plant
> > > offered that for them. They state that CCW is #1 in NG
> > conversion of buses. I
> > > would think their market position is as good as any. I don't
> > think they are
> > > expecting to make money on the new Wanderlodge initially. I
> > think they feel a
> > > market continues to exist for high end coaches ( remember, in
> > hard economic
> > > times, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer...why am I
> > always on the
> > > losing end?) I am glad they are trying to deliver a new
product
> > in a market
> > > that is not conducive to any new products. Remember just this
> > year Mfg,
> > > National, See Ya, and Western RV ( Alpine coach) went out of
> > business. At least, we
> > > are in a better position than those coach owners.
> > >
> > > I think other Bluebirders need our help and support. I think
CCW
> > needs it
> > > as well. Your points are well taken...now let's focus on the
> > positive. You
> > > have a wonderful coach. You are blessed to be able to have
it.
> > Enjoy the
> > > process of trying to keep it top notch and run the wheels off
of
> > it.
> > >
> > >
> > > john redden
> > > 91 PT-40
> > > **************Play online games for FREE at Games.com! All of
your
> > favorites,
> > > no registration required and great graphics â€" check it out!
> > >
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x...89022/aol?
> > redir=
> > > http://www.games.com?ncid=emlcntusgame00000001)
> > >
> >
>

[Lloyd Chaffin]

To Everyone in the Forum,

Unfortunately I am at the Nascar races and have no access to email. I
came home for something and saw the response to my posts from Mr.
Neshati.

I respectfully request that I be given just one chance to respond to
what Mr. Neshati said about me because he got a chance to respond
about what I said about him and I am glad he did. I will need a few
days to gather my "FACTS" to back up everything I have said which all
of it I stand behind 100%. I have everything documented and can back
up what I have said. You have heard nothing but Mr. Neshati's side.
No other M380 owner has stepped up yet to tell their story but I
will. I request to do one more post then you will never hear from me
again if you like.

I also want to say right now that I have expressed to other people
but now to you Mr. Neshati and to the CEO of CCW my condolences for
the loss of his brother. That is very sad. I also wish you the very
best with your health problems and hope that you can turn that around
as soon as possible.

I will post my response as soon as I can,

Thanks,
Lloyd Chaffin



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Macy Neshati
wrote:
>
> I have wrestled with my response for two full days now and I still
don't
> know where to start. I will for sure start by thanking several
people
> including Curt Sprenger, Eric Perplies, David Brady, Ernie, and Tom
Warner
> for their support and to answer a simple question from Jim
> Riorden regarding the number of Blue Birds at the 2007 RIV it was
198 not
> the 400 that it has grown to by some accounts in the last few days
of these
> posts.
>
> Just as importantly, I want to apologize for my failure to attend
this years
> rally. It was my idea to move it, I thought it would be fun and a
change of
> pace, and last year at the RIV our informal poll of attendees showed
> overwhelming support. However as this year has unfolded we have been
> besieged by the worst economic downturn in recent history, a credit
crisis,
> a further blow as a result of the axle recall that we could not have
> anticipated
> the death of our CEO's brother and business partner this past April
forcing
> Dale to become active in two additional business units, and capped
off with
> my personal health issues. As many of you know I have been battling
with
> Parkinsons for several years now and this past 90 days my symptoms
finally
> outran the medications ability to control them, forcing me to spend
several
> weeks with my doctors experimenting with new drugs and doses and
deciding
> which side effects I could live with for the relative relief
> they provided. Consequently as I was under physicians care at the
time I
> simply could not make it. Dale has been consumed in dealing with
the loss of
> his brother, consolidating the companies and dealing with issues I
would
> normally be responsible for and therefore was covering a pressing
business
> obligation for me.
>
> Not wishing to reveal too much of my or Dale's personal struggles I
asked
> Rick Clayton to simply apologize for our absence and hope that
people would
> understand that there may be years were circumstances simply won't
allow
> Dale and or I to attend. However the very vial and personal nature
of the
> attacks that have ensued over the last few days have compelled me
to share
> my situation more openly as the last thing I expected to do is to
> offend any of you by taking our lack of presence as a lack of
interest or
> desire to be with you.
>
> I must take very strong and pointed exception to Mr. Chaffin's
attacks first
> and foremost on behalf of the company and the hardworking people
who have
> labored against all odds to succeed in these adverse times, and
secondly on
> behalf of myself for being called a liar, not just once but several
times by
> Mr. Chaffin. In over 30 years as a business executive I have never
witnessed
> this lack of civility. How many of you think it is
> acceptable for someone who has a different perspective on a set of
> circumstances than you do, to go on a public forum and call you a
liar? Has
> the internet, emails, blogs and such dehumanized us to the point
that we
> find it OK to publicly slander and defame people? Does this forum
find this
> behavior acceptable?
>
> I will not dignify Mr. Chaffin's allegations and claims of warranty
on this
> site and in this public arena. I will state emphatically that we
have spent
> millions of dollars covering warranty claims on units that we felt
were
> legitimate and there are hundreds of you out there that know this
is true as
> you have been the beneficiaries of our warranty work. I have dozens
and
> dozens of emails from customers thanking us for our hard work on
> Their behalf and in many cases telling us we fixed the problem when
the
> previous owners couldn't.
>
> I do want to address many of the false allegations from several of
you that
> have appeared over the last few days: That we built all the M380
and LXI's
> and profited from them but won't spend the warranty money.
> FACT
> We did not build a single M380, and only one 450 LXI, and the
owners of the
> one we built reported to me as recently as a week ago that they
love it and
> have had great joy from it. However we have poured millions into
warranty
> coverage on legitimate warranty
>
> "They knew about the axle problem when they bought the company"
> FACT
> We did not have any knowledge of the axle problem when we bought the
> company, this particular piece of slander is particularly
disturbing on many
> fronts, but simply put, we aren't stupid, we would never have
purchased the
> company knowing this, the impact on owner confidence, the costly
recall
> process, not counting the repair cost, and the delay in coming to
market
> based on the need to completely redesign and reengineer the unit
would have
> been more than enough to stop the deal. And we all know where that
> Would have left Wanderlodge and you all. Cerberus had stopped all
work on
> the Wanderlodges, and were ready to shut down the business had we
not bought
> it.
>
> Instead, we bought the business, redesigned the product to meet
weight
> requirements, and went right down the line to fix the historic weak
points,
> we engineered fixes for leaks, slides were a problem, went back to
HWH
> slides, inverters were a problem went to two Trace pure sine wave
4000 watt
> inverters, house wiring a problem, went to the industry standard
spyder
> controls, the list goes on and on.
>
> We were confronted with the front axle problem, forced Blue Bird
Body to the
> table, got them to file the NHTSA recall and have worked night and
day with
> owners to get their units as functional as possible. You want to
scoff and
> belittle the fix? Don't scoff at us, we are doing everything in our
power to
> fix a problem we didn't and would not have created.
>
> Many owners are thrilled with their reworked units, they have ample
cargo
> capacity, better handling due to a lower CG and a quieter less
vibrating
> generator installation. Are some unhappy, sure, again, not our
fault, not
> our problem but we have done everything in our power to make things
as right
> as we can. I truly and honestly don't understand how this issue is
turned on
> us in anger.
>
> Now to our future and the Wanderlodge's survival. Roughly 16 months
ago when
> we bought the company it was widely believed in the industry that
the
> economy was stable, that the RV industry was continuing to grow and
would
> through at least 2009. If you don't believe me go look up last years
> University of Michigan RV industry economic report, widely held as
the bible
> for the industry.
>
> Look were we sit today, two out of the three largest lenders to the
RV
> industry, Wachovia and GE are out of the business, National RV....
Bankrupt
> gone, Weekend Warrior, Bankrupt gone, several other smaller guys,
gone...
> Fleetwood, stock at .25 cents, delisted from the New York stock
exchange,
> nearly gone, Monaco, hanging on by a thread, their dealers have no
more
> floor plan money to buy anymore units, nothing is selling.
>
> RV sales..down 60% and what is selling is at massive discounts, no
one is
> making money. Ten Thousand RV's in San Diego, gone, La Mesa,
closing and
> consolidating stores.
>
> Why don't we have dealers?? The credit crisis has left them with no
floor
> plan money. Simply put they can't afford to buy a stock unit.
>
> So here is the greatest contradiction I have heard yet, "We don't
want to
> see
> CCW fail"
>
> "But I won't buy a new Blue Bird because what if CCW fails"......
anyone
> else
> see the flaw here?
>
> If we don't sell RV's how do we survive? if you want to see us
survive,
> you need to buy Blue Birds... If you don't buy Blue Birds, you not
only
> guarantee our demise... You are responsible for it.
>
> Someone else steps in to criticize us for being late with the 2009
RV for
> the
> FMCA, and for the poor showing our then dealer made of coaches.
>
> The axle issue came up and forced us to redesign the RV to provide
a product
> with respectable cargo capacity on a legal front end. Do you know
the work
> that goes into that kind of engineering feat? While juggling a
recall? What
> you should be proud of is that your brand has new owners that
refused to
> build or ship a product that wasn't engineered or built correctly,
even if
> it missed the whole show.
>
> Our company has poured double digit millions into this Brand to
keep the
> doors open what has that meant to you? So you could get warranty on
product
> we didn't build and wouldn't have built or shipped as designed, to
perform
> recall work for defects in design we didn't design on product we
didn't
> build, to redesign and reengineer a Blue Bird Product to make you
and us
> proud, we decided to trudge on through the worst economy in recent
memory
> and a credit crunch like nothing we have ever seen, and we
> built a beautiful Premier XL. But Mr. Chaffin goes on and on about
where to
> get them fixed and blasts us for not having dealers. what if we
hadn't
> bought the company? No telling how the recall would have gone, who
would
> have done your warranty. How many of you have benefited from us
being here
> to fix your units both in Riverside and Fort Valley? To buy parts
from us?
> Have we had turn over? Sure, people will get scared as a company
slows down
> and has to right size in this type of economic crisis and some will
jump
> ship, is that something to go online and blast us for?
>
> And on a final false assertion by Mr. Chaffin, the 2006 we brought
to
> Branson would have to be parked by the new owner, not useable.
>
> FACT
> It has had the recall done, is fully functional has outstanding
front end
> weight numbers and wouldn't have to be parked in anyone's driveway
other
> than to restock for the next journey.
>
> I have said enough, maybe too much....we have done all we can, we
fixed the
> Design problems, enhanced the product with top of the line
features, provide
> a better ride than any Prevost, build a tougher more rugged chassis
than
> Prevost or Newell, enhanced our warranty by going to a 12 year
chassis,
> structure and body warranty and provide better craftsmanship and
> construction than a fiberglass Newell.
>
> The rest is up to you. No company, no matter how well financed,
stays in
> business if the product isn't selling, not because they run out of
cash, it
> just isn't good judgment.
>
> For now, we are tightening our belts and weathering the storm. We
have a
> beautiful 2009 (RV 02) for sale, Our first 2009, as many saw at
Branson is a
> 1 1/2 bath that was purchased by George and Vel Kistler. We are so
grateful
> for their support and loyalty.
>
> We do understand the importance and the value of a good rally. But
given the
> unique nature of the economic crisis we are faced with, the almost
daily
> business failures, and the need to find ways to weather this storm
we made
> judgment calls as to where to place priorities, we didn't mean to
slight
> anyone, and we will work hard to return next years rally to its
previous
> glory.
>
> But I stand by our decisions this year and ask you
> to consider walking a mile in the other guys shoe before lashing
out. It is
> seldom as simple and as clear cut as it seems looking in.
> As always, travel safe
> Macy
>
>
>
> Macy
> Macy Neshati
> Vice President, Sales & Marketing
> Complete Coach Works & Blue Bird Coachworks
> Office: 951-684-9585 Cell: 951-836-6525 Fax: 951-684-9585
> Visit Our Websites: http://www.completecoach.com
&http://www.bluebirdcoachworks.com
>

[jim riordan]

Macy,

I wish you well with your health issues.

Jim RIordan

Macy Neshati wrote:

I have wrestled with my response for two full days now and I still don't know where to start. I will for sure start by thanking several people including Curt Sprenger, Eric Perplies, David Brady, Ernie, and Tom Warner for their support and to answer a simple question from Jim
Riorden
regarding the number of Blue Birds at the 2007 RIV it was 198 not the 400 that it has grown to by some accounts in the last few days of these posts.

Just as importantly, I want to apologize for my failure to attend this years
rally. It was my idea to move it, I thought it would be fun and a change of pace, and last year at the RIV our informal poll of attendees showed overwhelming support. However as this year has unfolded we have been besieged by the worst economic downturn in recent history, a credit crisis, a further blow as a result of the axle recall that we could not have anticipated
the death of our CEO's brother and business partner this past April forcing Dale to become active in two additional business units, and capped off with my personal health issues. As many of you know I have been battling with Parkinsons for several years now and this past 90 days my symptoms finally outran the medications ability to control them, forcing me to spend several
weeks with my doctors experimenting with new drugs and doses and deciding which side effects I could live with for the relative relief
they provided. Consequently as I was under physicians care at the time I simply could not make it. Dale has been consumed in dealing with the loss of his brother, consolidating the companies and dealing with issues I would normally be responsible for and therefore was covering a pressing business obligation for me.

Not wishing to reveal too much of my or Dale's personal struggles I asked Rick Clayton to simply apologize for our absence and hope that people would understand that there may be years were circumstances simply won't allow Dale and or I to attend. However the very vial and personal nature of the attacks that have ensued over the last few days have compelled me to share my situation more openly as the last thing I expected to do is to
offend any of you by taking our lack of presence as a lack of interest or desire to
be with you.

I must take very strong and pointed exception to Mr. Chaffin's attacks first and foremost on behalf of the company and the hardworking people who have labored against all odds to succeed in these adverse times, and secondly on behalf of myself for being called a liar, not just once but several times by Mr. Chaffin. In over 30 years as a business executive I have never witnessed this lack of civility. How many of you think it is
acceptable for someone who has a different perspective on a set of circumstances than you do, to go on a public forum and call you a liar? Has the internet, emails, blogs and such dehumanized us to the point that we find it OK to publicly slander and defame people? Does this forum find this behavior acceptable?

I will not dignify Mr. Chaffin's allegations and claims of warranty on this site and in this public arena. I will state emphatically that we have spent millions of dollars covering warranty claims on units that
we felt were legitimate and there are hundreds of you out there that know this is true as you have been the beneficiaries of our warranty work. I have dozens and dozens of emails from customers thanking us for our hard work on
Their behalf and in many cases telling us we fixed the problem when the previous owners couldn't.

I do want to address many of the false allegations from several of you that have appeared over the last few days: That we built all the M380 and LXI's and profited from them but won't spend the warranty money.
FACT
We did not build a single M380, and only one 450 LXI, and the owners of the one we built reported to me as recently as a week ago that they love it and have had great joy from it. However we have poured millions into warranty coverage on legitimate warranty

"They knew about the axle problem when they bought the company"
FACT
We did not have any knowledge of the axle problem when we bought the company, this
particular piece of slander is particularly disturbing on many fronts, but simply put, we aren't stupid, we would never have purchased the company knowing this, the impact on owner confidence, the costly recall process, not counting the repair cost, and the delay in coming to market based on the need to completely redesign and reengineer the unit would have been more than enough to stop the deal. And we all know where that
Would have left Wanderlodge and you all. Cerberus had stopped all work on the Wanderlodges, and were ready to shut down the business had we not bought it.

Instead, we bought the business, redesigned the product to meet weight
requirements, and went right down the line to fix the historic weak points, we engineered fixes for leaks, slides were a problem, went back to HWH slides, inverters were a problem went to two Trace pure sine wave 4000 watt inverters, house wiring a problem, went to the industry standard spyder controls, the list goes on
and on.

We were confronted with the front axle problem, forced Blue Bird Body to the table, got them to file the NHTSA recall and have worked night and day with owners to get their units as functional as possible. You want to scoff and belittle the fix? Don't scoff at us, we are doing everything in our power to fix a problem we didn't and would not have created.

Many owners are thrilled with their reworked units, they have ample cargo
capacity, better handling due to a lower CG and a quieter less vibrating generator installation. Are some unhappy, sure, again, not our fault, not our problem but we have done everything in our power to make things as right as we can. I truly and honestly don't understand how this issue is turned on us in anger.

Now to our future and the Wanderlodge's survival. Roughly 16 months ago when we bought the company it was widely believed in the industry that the economy was stable, that the RV industry was continuing to
grow and would through at least 2009. If you don't believe me go look up last years University of Michigan RV industry economic report, widely held as the bible for the industry.

Look were we sit today, two out of the three largest lenders to the RV industry, Wachovia and GE are out of the business, National RV.... Bankrupt gone, Weekend Warrior, Bankrupt gone, several other smaller guys, gone... Fleetwood, stock at .25 cents, delisted from the New York stock exchange, nearly gone, Monaco, hanging on by a thread, their dealers have no more floor plan money to buy anymore units, nothing is selling.

RV sales..down 60% and what is selling is at massive discounts, no one is making money. Ten Thousand RV's in San Diego, gone, La Mesa, closing and consolidating stores.

Why don't we have dealers?? The credit crisis has left them with no floor plan money. Simply put they can't afford to buy a stock unit.

So here is the greatest contradiction I have
heard yet, "We don't want to see
CCW fail"

"But I won't buy a new Blue Bird because what if CCW fails"...... anyone else
see the flaw here?

If we don't sell RV's how do we survive? if you want to see us survive,
you need to buy Blue Birds... If you don't buy Blue Birds, you not only guarantee our demise... You are responsible for it.

Someone else steps in to criticize us for being late with the 2009 RV for the
FMCA, and for the poor showing our then dealer made of coaches.

The axle issue came up and forced us to redesign the RV to provide a product with respectable cargo capacity on a legal front end. Do you know the work that goes into that kind of engineering feat? While juggling a recall? What you should be proud of is that your brand has new owners that refused to build or ship a product that wasn't engineered or built correctly, even if it missed the whole show.

Our company has poured double digit millions into this Brand
to keep the doors open what has that meant to you? So you could get warranty on product we didn't build and wouldn't have built or shipped as designed, to perform recall work for defects in design we didn't design on product we didn't build, to redesign and reengineer a Blue Bird Product to make you and us proud, we decided to trudge on through the worst economy in recent memory and a credit crunch like nothing we have ever seen, and we
built a beautiful Premier XL. But Mr. Chaffin goes on and on about where to get them fixed and blasts us for not having dealers. what if we hadn't bought the company? No telling how the recall would have gone, who would have done your warranty. How many of you have benefited from us being here to fix your units both in Riverside and Fort Valley? To buy parts from us? Have we had turn over? Sure, people will get scared as a company slows down and has to right size in this type of economic crisis and some will jump ship, is that something
to go online and blast us for?

And on a final false assertion by Mr. Chaffin, the 2006 we brought to Branson would have to be parked by the new owner, not useable.

FACT
It has had the recall done, is fully functional has outstanding front end weight numbers and wouldn't have to be parked in anyone's driveway other than to restock for the next journey.

I have said enough, maybe too much....we have done all we can, we fixed the
Design problems, enhanced the product with top of the line features, provide a better ride than any Prevost, build a tougher more rugged chassis than Prevost or Newell, enhanced our warranty by going to a 12 year chassis, structure and body warranty and provide better craftsmanship and construction than a fiberglass Newell.

The rest is up to you. No company, no matter how well financed, stays in
business if the product isn't selling, not because they run out of cash, it just isn't good judgment.

For now, we
are tightening our belts and weathering the storm. We have a
beautiful 2009 (RV 02) for sale, Our first 2009, as many saw at Branson is a 1 1/2 bath that was purchased by George and Vel Kistler. We are so grateful for their support and loyalty.

We do understand the importance and the value of a good rally. But given the unique nature of the economic crisis we are faced with, the almost daily business failures, and the need to find ways to weather this storm we made judgment calls as to where to place priorities, we didn't mean to slight anyone, and we will work hard to return next years rally to its previous glory.

But I stand by our decisions this year and ask you
to consider walking a mile in the other guys shoe before lashing out. It is seldom as simple and as clear cut as it seems looking in.
As always, travel safe
Macy



Macy
Macy Neshati
Vice President, Sales & Marketing
Complete Coach Works & Blue Bird Coachworks
Office: 951-684-9585 Cell: 951-836-6525 Fax: 951-684-9585
Visit Our Websites: http://www.completecoach.com &www.bluebirdcoachworks.com

[mbulriss]

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@... wrote:
>
> Brenda and I have been unable to attend a RIV since we were there in
2004.
> If my business was booming now like it was then, we would have been
there, for
> sure.
>
> Ernie Ekberg
> 83PT40
> Weatherford, Texas
>
> **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out
Today's Hot
> 5 Travel Deals!
> (http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?nc...av00000001)
>

[mbulriss]

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@... wrote:
>
> Brenda and I have been unable to attend a RIV since we were there in
2004.
> If my business was booming now like it was then, we would have been
there, for
> sure.
>
> Ernie Ekberg
> 83PT40
> Weatherford, Texas
>
> **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out
Today's Hot
> 5 Travel Deals!
> (http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?nc...av00000001)
>

[mbulriss]

Hmmmm.... sorry about those prior two empty posts. I think I can safely say Google Chrome has some problems with the rich text editor and/or Yahoo Groups. Here's what I tried to post.
----------------------

Dang, I'm sorry I ever asked for a report on the Branson rally now!

I'm going to repeat what I posted in a message sometime after CCW took over:
"I think all of us are highly hopeful and optimistic that the new
engaged ownership group will restore the quality that we have all come
to enjoy in our older models. An enthusiastic and engaged ownership
with pride in their work can bring it back to where the Luce family
left off. So far, they seem off to a good start on that."

If you haven't looked at the Photos section of the 2009 Bird at Branson, you might want to take a look and see how far they have come in so short a period of time.

Now that we all know they bought a pig-in-a-poke from Cerberus (typical Cerberus deal - look at them dumping Chrysler now that they have sucked all they can out of it) we ought to be thankful CCW is still carrying on.

Most of us don't have to worry about warranty on a new Bird. That having been said, it seems clear we can have sympathy for owners with outstanding warranty issues on units built under the prior owner's reign. Obviously, significant frustration exists for those folks. Think how you would feel. On the other hand, did CCW assume that liability at purchase? Or did the cost of warranty service remain with Cerberus? I know I exclude prior warranty responsibility when we take over another company's business.

I just hope the parties involved can resolve it amicably. Online disputes needlessly hurt the brand, the company, and ultimately,the whole ownership community.

Mike Bulriss
1991 WB40 "Texas Minivan"
San Antonio, TX

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@... wrote:
>
> Brenda and I have been unable to attend a RIV since we were there in 2004.
> If my business was booming now like it was then, we would have been there, for
> sure.
>
> Ernie Ekberg
> 83PT40
> Weatherford, Texas
>
> **************Plan your next getaway with AOL Travel. Check out Today's Hot
> 5 Travel Deals!
> (http://travel.aol.com/discount-travel?nc...av00000001)
>