Time to replace defective and potentially dangerous absorption fridge

[davidbrady]

Did I really use vent space, cavity, gas and tarnish all in the same paragraph! ROTFL

[gondolaguy]

I'm cookin with gas now.......oh, how inappropriate!


So, up north Lowes ruled king, but here in Hendersonville Home Depot is 5 times better stocked. Luckily found foam in 2X2 form so I didn't need to deal with 4X8

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This picture shows accurately how much room I recovered by removing the inner air box. Look at the coloration of the wood to see the Shroud of Turin imprint.

[davidbrady]

Hey Corey,

On your next photo-op can you give me a closeup of this lovely bracket: . The non-slide equipped LXi's are built differently than the slide-equipped bus at the roof radius. My bus has a huge quarter round extruded aluminum beam that runs the length of the bus. My roof bows terminate into the top edge of the beam. Your bus doesn't have the beam and I'd like to see how they connected the roof bows.

Now I went and did it... I rounded out the controversy by including the S-word in our R-word thread having already mentioned the M-word! Yikes! LOL

[gondolaguy]

Interesting!

Jennifer and I went to Camping World so we could view what's new in RVs. Every single new Class A over $200K had a residential Reefer in it.

[davidbrady]

Corey,

Can you take a height measurement for me? I don't have any mechanicals under my fridge so I can set it right on the floor. I have a drawer under my Dometic and a cabinet above. I'm wondering if I remove both the drawer and the cabinet how much vertical space that gives me. I'm away from my coach so I can't take the measurement myself. Can you tell me the interior height from the floor surface to the AC duct work mounted to the ceiling?

I just checked and Marathon, Liberty, and Newell use Sub-Zero refrigerators! :-) Perhaps I need to keep up with Winnebago!

[gondolaguy]

(07-05-2013 18:01)davidmbrady Wrote:  Corey,

Can you take a height measurement for me? I don't have any mechanicals under my fridge so I can set it right on the floor. I have a drawer under my Dometic and a cabinet above. I'm wondering if I remove both the drawer and the cabinet how much vertical space that gives me. I'm away from my coach so I can't take the measurement myself. Can you tell me the interior height from the floor surface to the AC duct work mounted to the ceiling?

I just checked and Marathon, Liberty, and Newell use Sub-Zero refrigerators! :-) Perhaps I need to keep up with Winnebago!

Happy to take detailed measurements, but if yours is like mine (on passenger side just beyond dinet with drawer under and small space above) the drawer and current reefer space equal 73.5 "X 32" X 28.25". What I didn't measure was the small cabinet and the depth of the A/C relief.

[patticake]

I guess I'm in a different situation, as my frig is on a 45 to the outside wall and has no vent in the wall. The air comes from a screen in the floor and has the conventional roof vent. To gain access to the rear of the frig, I have to take part of the bathroom wall out, remove about two dozen screws from a small access panel, and then I can see the back of it. If I ever want to remove it, I would also have to remove the commode so maybe I can reach far enough into the cavity, or use a sawsall to remove more wall.
But, knock on wood, I haven't had any trouble with it, and it is a Norcold.

I guess I can con my 9yr old grandson into climbing into the opening, if need be.

[pgchin]

Wow,
Take a few weeks off to get rolling on a "walk about" and miss all the fun! Given all the "press" absorption refers are getting, everyone "chooses" their own path. Me, I replaced the original rm7030 for an NDR1292 SS back in 07. The coils were shot and Donna wanted "residential style doors". I moved a dinette chair past the old refer back in the day and decisively broke the 40 dollar latches, when I dumped the rm7030, I kept the latch for a future person in need! At the time, the residential refer technology was not where it is today. If I had to do it all over again, I am still not sure what I would do. I have a bottom cooling residential at home and with 2 dogs, I have to clean the coils every month! And you can't get in there with anything but an old style coil brush to clean them, a BIG PIA and you must also move the refer out of the enclosure in order to clean the coils every month to access the coils from both the front and back to clean them properly! In the bus I have an install set up just like Cory's and we have to remove that bottom drawer EVERY week to clean out all the "hair" from the 2 dogs now since the air space at the bottom of that drawer is about 1 1/2 inch!Here are my observations FWIW:
-Neither refer exhibits "charring" of the cabinet and the ndr1292ss is a bit bigger and I had to rebuild the upper cabinet and make it 2 inches smaller.
-the "installation" enclosure in a 95/6 EXCEEDS Dometics specifications, I was real sure when I did the 1292 install "to make it so" Obie Wan! They provided a set of specs, very detailed with the 1292.
- I inspect the cabinet and coils every six months, the old rm7030's coils were "toast". The boiler stack was shot and the top of the coils over the boiler stack where it vents were all rusted through and deteriorating.
- If I keep the NDR1292,I will change out the coil assembly with the Amish one in 10 years.....2017 is still way out there! We'll see how the residential technology changes by then and call the ball in 2017
- I am perplexed why some low usage units "char" (for lack of a better word) and some don't, I use mine 5-6 months a year. Inquiring minds what to know!
- I am VERY RARELY level, since I NEVER use the jacks and air down, granted I do not have a slide so airing down is an option for me, for others it is not.
- The new ndr1292's coils seem to be holding up well so far, but in 10 years they go period! You can't see in the boiler stack without taking it apart and according to the articles written about these refers by fire professionals and insurance companies, the "bulk" of the coil failures appears to be in there. These same articles also state the number 1 cause of RV fires is the refer.
I respect Cory's and others decision, I indeed may follow, but I am going to get my "use" out of the 1292 since I had to call the ball in 07....... Great thread BTW!

[oldmansax]

(07-05-2013 10:32)gondolaguy Wrote:  Tom,

Good to hear from an expert on these technologies.

What I extracted from your post actually increased my fear of these poorly designed products (even if the technology is sound!) I gathered: a) our RV refers are not built or installed to good standards in almost all cases, b) you recommend owners pull and inspect the ammonia cooling units (most won't until there is an issue, I'll bet) and c) you will fireproof your enclosure when the next refit happens. Not very comforting!

As far as the rumor...
"When asked why Norcold did not contest the claims that their products caused all the fires, some RV dealers and service people said the RV manufacturers threatened to ruin Norcold with a PR campaign and never use any Norcold products again."
...this smacks of backroom mechanic's theory versus real-world manufacturing business practice (my area of expertise).

Not sure I would qualify as an "expert" unless we use the old definition "An expert is just a drip under pressure!" I do, however, qualify as a "professional" since that is anyone who gets paid for what they do. LOL!
Let me comment on your comments....

A-- I don't want to paint all manufacturers with the same brush but it does appear that, while the units DO meet the standards, the standards are somewhat lower than what we expect. Camper manufacturers then exacerbate the lower standards by poor installation. I have to admit I was EXTREMELY disappointed when I pulled the original fridge in my PT and found it was not installed according to specs. I really expected better from Wanderlodge. Equipment standards happen to be one of my pet peeves. I could write a book but nobody wants to hear about it. Suffice to say while the technology in many areas has improved, the equipment standards have been lowered more and more until you really have to read the fine print to see what the performance actually is. Even residential refrigeration and air conditioning has suffered the same fate. Years ago a 3 ton unit would actually produce 36,000 BTUs of cooling at any ambient temperature usually encountered in the US. Now I frequently find units that, not only will not produce 36K, but will not even produce their sub-standard rating above 90F!! I'm gonna quit now before I start pounding on my desk and frothing at the mouth!

B-- Owner maintenance of these units consists of cleaning the burner & flu, visually inspecting the condenser coil and air passages, and clean if needed. Don't forget the roof cap. Are the cooling fans (if so equipped) clean and operational? Also look for corrosion, particularly in welds and joints. The components of the refrigerant fluid in these unit is somewhat corrosive anyway and more so when they separate during long periods of disuse. To my knowledge, no definitive studies have been done, but, most techs agree it's better to run these units to keep the refrigerant mixed than to keep them shut off and have the components separate and cause corrosion. This also keeps the evaporator from rusting on the outside. I posted a link for better understanding at the end of this post.

C-- I already fire-proofed (really more like fire-retarded ) my enclosure but I like the Hardy board idea better.
As to the rumor, I will quote The Shadow: "Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?" Sorry, I can't do the maniacal laughter that should follow.

(07-05-2013 10:51)davidmbrady Wrote:  Have you had a chance to look at and assess any of the replacement aftermarket cooling units?
Tom, any idea on the quantity of ammonia and hydrogen in the units? We want the backerboard to withstand any flame until all the fuel is consumed.

No, I have not seen the aftermarket units but I really want too, particularly the Amish models. I think heavier is better, as far a cooling units go.
Quantity of refrigerant would depend on unit size but basically these units have a few ounces of ammonia, water and rust inhibitor, and then the unit is pressurized to around 350# with hydrogen. Here is some information on how these units work:
http://www.gasrefrigeration.net/why%20they%20fail.htm

TOM

[Johnny M Slone]

(07-05-2013 10:51)davidmbrady Wrote:  I don't think there's any question that the technology is sound. I find Tom's post very enlightening regarding the build quality and standards of the Dometic and Norcold absorption refrigerators. Folks who've replaced their cooling units with Amish units have reported improvements in quality.

Tom,

Have you had a chance to look at and assess any of the replacement aftermarket cooling units? I like the propane option too. I like being able to shut the coach down but my fridge stays cold. I haven't pulled mine to check the cavity dimensions or the state of the cooling unit but I will, and I do plan to line it with Hardie Backerboard. (Before I do I'll take a propane torch to see how long it takes to burn a hole through it - I may adjust the thickness accordingly). Again, I couldn't be more pleased with my Dometic's performance. It has always been ice cold and it has never failed. Perhaps in my case (by 2002) BB got the cavity dimensions right. All I want is an industrial grade cooling unit and I'd be happier than a pig in a poke.

Tom, any idea on the quantity of ammonia and hydrogen in the units? We want the backerboard to withstand any flame until all the fuel is consumed.

Johnny,

Sounds like you got the RF197 fastened down right. Any chance of a sketch of the brackets and attachment that you made at the base. So if I'm understanding you correctly, you fastened the RF197 at the base at all four corners. Given the amount of movement in our coaches I don't think fastening at the top will work very well; that is, fastening at the top rear of the fridge the way you typically would in a home.

David, not sure this will work but I am trying to attach a picture of the bracket I made to attach the front corners. I did not use the level screws on the front of the new fridge so I had a good place to bolt the bracket to and I put a screw through the bracket into the wood cabinet. I may not put a bracket in the back as I stated before, think I will run it for awhile to see if it will be needed.

I had the opportunity to take a good look at the 10 year old and the 5 year old cooling units that came out of my coach. My opinion is the quality of the material used to fabricate the cooling unit is substandard. I think I have pics of both units and if I can I will post them.

David I think you will be shocked when you open your fridge up and take a look at the cooling unit. My guess is it is rusted to the point you will wonder how it worked. In the mean time you have small children so make sure the smoke detectors work.
John