Threaded Mode | Linear Mode

04-18-2006, 07:54

Tom, for the most part I think you will find that the modern engines SFC
numbers are better. When I say modern, I am not including the latest
Government compliant generation.

Jerry

MS Gulf Coast

Still Looking

_____

From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Warner
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 11:28 PM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: 35 FC Transmissions

Jerry the electronic controls on todays diesel engine were installed
to ensure that the engines meet the very stringent emission standards
of today. They have not become more efficient they have become
compliant with the laws at the expense of lowering their
efficiency. They achieve that by creating more heat and thus run at
higher temperatures, and they therefore need better lubricants and
increased maintenance, at the same time of operating at reduced
power. Remember there is always a tradeoff to everything. A gallon
of diesel fuel contains approximately 140,000 BTUs. One horsepower
equals 2545 BTUs per hour. Its easy to see that increased horsepower
is only achieved thru packing more fuel/air mixture into the
cylinders and efficiently exhausting it.

Tom Warner
Vernon Center,NY
1982 FC35 for sale ( http://tinyurl.com/zv2on )
1985 PT40

. At 12:11 AM 4/18/2006, you wrote:
>Tom, a diesel or gasoline engine is an air breathing device. A turbo
>charger increases the amount of air it can breath. If the boost pressure
>provided is 14.7 PSI, the engine sees instead of the normal one atmosphere
>of pressure, two atmospheres. It is, at 14.7PSI of boost, without losses
>considerations, now twice the size engine. It does of course as you noted,
>take more fuel. The intercooler takes some of the heat out of the intake
>air, providing a denser, heavier fuel air mixture. The magic as I see it
is
>the electronic controls and devices used today to not only lower emissions
>but also create more power with less fuel.
>
>
>
>Jerry
>
>MS Gulf Coast
>
>Looking for a BB
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Warner
>Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 10:27 PM
>To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: 35 FC Transmissions
>
>
>
>Hank thats about what I am getting with my 1982 FC35 with the Cat
>3208NA. People forget that turbo chargers and intercoolers do not
>make an engine more efficient they allow a denser fuel/air charge to
>be pumped into the cylinder. More fuel pumped into the cylinder means
>more fuel used. A horsepower increase from 210HP to 300HP in the same
>engine can only be realized thru the use of more fuel. There is no
>magic involved.
>
>Tom Warner
>Vernon Center,NY
>1982 FC35 (for sale
<http://tinyurl.com/lotbdcan>http://tinyurl.com/lotbdcan )
>1985 PT40
>
>At 09:55 PM 4/17/2006, you wrote:
> >---Mike:
> >That's nuts!!! My 77FC33 with the CAT 210NA got 8-9mpg
> >consistently while my 90SP36 gets only 6-7mpg!!! That's a true
> >staement and NOT nuts!
> >Regards,
> >Hank Hannigan
> >1990SP36
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
> ><MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > That's nuts. Turbo charging and charge air coolers are methods to
> >improve the efficiency of diesel engines. The 5 speed OD trans
> >keeps engine speed down and increased horse power improves the power
> >to weight ratio over the older NA/643 speed bumps. Most 87up FCs
> >have two airs and the smaller lighter gen set, handling and
> >acceleration are greatly enhanced. There is no way a NA gets better
> >mileage than a turbo, level playing field.
> > > I drove Millers 88 FC a while back and it was a night and day
> >diffference compared to my well tuned 250 hp 83 rear bath.
> > > Engine speed is the major issue when considering improving
> >milage.
> > > Turbo/charge air cooled engines can tolerate 400 rpm lower rpm at
> >full throttle and don't need to go over 2500 rpm for max power. NAs
> >need to spin faster due to the lack of forced induction and need
> >more fuel to facilitate that.
> > > Now I could be over looking something, so if you have some REAL
> >experience that might lend some credibility to your aurgument I'm
> >listening Warner. I'm interested in miles you have driven your NA,
> >average speed, speed on grades, that sort of thing. I assume you
> >have taken some trips, so lets hear what you have really seen for
> >fuel use. Those considering your FC might want to know.
> > > Mike Hohnstein
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Tom Warner
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 9:58 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: 35 FC Transmissions
> > >
> > >
> > > I doubt very much if you will find an 87-89 FC that will even
> >get
> > > close to the fuel mileage of the 1982 FC/31/33/35 coaches. I
> >believe
> > > the 4th gear is the same as the 5th or 6th gear in the 87-89.
> > >
> > > Tom Warner
> > > Vernon Center,NY
> > > 1982 FC35 ( for sale at
> ><<http://s69.photobucket.com/albums/i57/warbucks13477/>http://s69.p
> hotobucket.com/albums/i57/warbucks13477/>http://s69.photobucke
>t.com/albums/i57/warbucks13477/
> >)
> > > 1985 PT 40
> > >
> > >
> > > At 09:55 PM 4/16/2006, you wrote:
> > > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "sailingmyway"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >i hear storys from 7-10 mpg on the fcs with the 4 speed
> > > >tranny,now,thats not bad milage as i see it!
> > > >randy dupree
> > > > > Does anyone know if they ever put the 5 or 6 speed overdrive
> > > > > transmission in the 35 FC? If so, what year did they
> >start? I've
> > > > > zeroed in on the 35FC as the correct Bird for my wife and I,
> > > >however, I
> > > > > really hesitate buying one that gets such poor fuel mileage
> >as the 4
> > > > > speed Allison. John & Pat - Wantabee's, Stuart
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >SPONSORED LINKS
> > >
>
><<<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?>http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?>http://group
s.yahoo.com/gads?
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> >eational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=DAUkCKkU7Dzh
> >n_ObWmSYTw>Recreational
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s.yahoo.com/gads?
> >t=ms&k=Wanderlodge&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automot
> >ive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w5=Used+recreational+v
> >ehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=Z-
> >8HJdysB3QLPj9U0JvqYQ>Wanderlodge
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><<<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?>http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?>http://group
s.yahoo.com/gads?
> >t=ms&k=Automotive+maintenance&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Wanderlodge
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> >reational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=IF4u_5wI8Pm
> >y34cC1O9CxA>Automotive
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s.yahoo.com/gads?
> >t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Wander
> >lodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w5=Use
> >d+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=z6_Xah
> >aeYHfELr6o72IW1A>Recreational
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s.yahoo.com/gads?
> >t=ms&k=Used+recreational+vehicles&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Wanderl
> >odge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w5=Used
> >+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=UGEY5km
> >4L-kXbDI4ZSadEw>Used
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><<<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?>http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?>http://group
s.yahoo.com/gads?
> >t=ms&k=Automotive+radiators&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Wanderlodge&w
> >3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w5=Used+recre
> >ational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=ePNVMmISsCWgT
> >nMq_4GlXA>Automotive
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> &k=Used+recreational+vehicles&w1=Recreatio
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>e+dealer&w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.s
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

04-18-2006, 13:05

Mike, A real good example is the 2007 PowerStroke Diesel from Ford. Check
out the details on the following link.

6.4L Power Stroke Diesel

. 350HP and 650 lbs.ft.

http://wnypa.org/64_files/frame.htm

Jerry

MS Gulf Coast

Looking

_____

From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hohnstein
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 8:39 AM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: 35 FC Transmissions

Spoken like a true technical illiterate. Sophisticated contempary fuel
controls are responsible for the greatly extended service life of engines,
gasoline and diesel.
Extrordinary horse power per cubic inch production is common place these
days, dwarfing power levels of 20 years ago. There is a reason a 3208 10.3
litre engine is limited to 300 hp in highway use and an 8.3 litre Cummins
routinely make in excess of 330, more if you can cool it.
We work on many hot rod trucks in the shop and it's unbelievable how much
punch these new fangled 5.9s can produce. Electronics are really magic.
Expensive but very very cool. I wish I could retrofit my throwaways (3208)
with new fuel controls.
MH

----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Warner
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 11:28 PM
Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: 35 FC Transmissions

Jerry the electronic controls on todays diesel engine were installed
to ensure that the engines meet the very stringent emission standards
of today. They have not become more efficient they have become
compliant with the laws at the expense of lowering their
efficiency. They achieve that by creating more heat and thus run at
higher temperatures, and they therefore need better lubricants and
increased maintenance, at the same time of operating at reduced
power. Remember there is always a tradeoff to everything. A gallon
of diesel fuel contains approximately 140,000 BTUs. One horsepower
equals 2545 BTUs per hour. Its easy to see that increased horsepower
is only achieved thru packing more fuel/air mixture into the
cylinders and efficiently exhausting it.

Tom Warner
Vernon Center,NY
1982 FC35 for sale ( http://tinyurl.com/zv2on )
1985 PT40

. At 12:11 AM 4/18/2006, you wrote:
>Tom, a diesel or gasoline engine is an air breathing device. A turbo
>charger increases the amount of air it can breath. If the boost pressure
>provided is 14.7 PSI, the engine sees instead of the normal one
atmosphere
>of pressure, two atmospheres. It is, at 14.7PSI of boost, without losses
>considerations, now twice the size engine. It does of course as you
noted,
>take more fuel. The intercooler takes some of the heat out of the intake
>air, providing a denser, heavier fuel air mixture. The magic as I see it
is
>the electronic controls and devices used today to not only lower
emissions
>but also create more power with less fuel.
>
>
>
>Jerry
>
>MS Gulf Coast
>
>Looking for a BB
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Warner
>Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 10:27 PM
>To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: 35 FC Transmissions
>
>
>
>Hank thats about what I am getting with my 1982 FC35 with the Cat
>3208NA. People forget that turbo chargers and intercoolers do not
>make an engine more efficient they allow a denser fuel/air charge to
>be pumped into the cylinder. More fuel pumped into the cylinder means
>more fuel used. A horsepower increase from 210HP to 300HP in the same
>engine can only be realized thru the use of more fuel. There is no
>magic involved.
>
>Tom Warner
>Vernon Center,NY
>1982 FC35 (for sale
<http://tinyurl.com/lotbdcan>http://tinyurl.com/lotbdcan )
>1985 PT40
>
>At 09:55 PM 4/17/2006, you wrote:
> >---Mike:
> >That's nuts!!! My 77FC33 with the CAT 210NA got 8-9mpg
> >consistently while my 90SP36 gets only 6-7mpg!!! That's a true
> >staement and NOT nuts!
> >Regards,
> >Hank Hannigan
> >1990SP36
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
> ><MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > That's nuts. Turbo charging and charge air coolers are methods to
> >improve the efficiency of diesel engines. The 5 speed OD trans
> >keeps engine speed down and increased horse power improves the power
> >to weight ratio over the older NA/643 speed bumps. Most 87up FCs
> >have two airs and the smaller lighter gen set, handling and
> >acceleration are greatly enhanced. There is no way a NA gets better
> >mileage than a turbo, level playing field.
> > > I drove Millers 88 FC a while back and it was a night and day
> >diffference compared to my well tuned 250 hp 83 rear bath.
> > > Engine speed is the major issue when considering improving
> >milage.
> > > Turbo/charge air cooled engines can tolerate 400 rpm lower rpm at
> >full throttle and don't need to go over 2500 rpm for max power. NAs
> >need to spin faster due to the lack of forced induction and need
> >more fuel to facilitate that.
> > > Now I could be over looking something, so if you have some REAL
> >experience that might lend some credibility to your aurgument I'm
> >listening Warner. I'm interested in miles you have driven your NA,
> >average speed, speed on grades, that sort of thing. I assume you
> >have taken some trips, so lets hear what you have really seen for
> >fuel use. Those considering your FC might want to know.
> > > Mike Hohnstein
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Tom Warner
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 9:58 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: 35 FC Transmissions
> > >
> > >
> > > I doubt very much if you will find an 87-89 FC that will even
> >get
> > > close to the fuel mileage of the 1982 FC/31/33/35 coaches. I
> >believe
> > > the 4th gear is the same as the 5th or 6th gear in the 87-89.
> > >
> > > Tom Warner
> > > Vernon Center,NY
> > > 1982 FC35 ( for sale at
> ><<http://s69.photobucket.com/albums/i57/warbucks13477/>http://s69.p
> hotobucket.com/albums/i57/warbucks13477/>http://s69.photobucke
>t.com/albums/i57/warbucks13477/
> >)
> > > 1985 PT 40
> > >
> > >
> > > At 09:55 PM 4/16/2006, you wrote:
> > > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "sailingmyway"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >i hear storys from 7-10 mpg on the fcs with the 4 speed
> > > >tranny,now,thats not bad milage as i see it!
> > > >randy dupree
> > > > > Does anyone know if they ever put the 5 or 6 speed overdrive
> > > > > transmission in the 35 FC? If so, what year did they
> >start? I've
> > > > > zeroed in on the 35FC as the correct Bird for my wife and I,
> > > >however, I
> > > > > really hesitate buying one that gets such poor fuel mileage
> >as the 4
> > > > > speed Allison. John & Pat - Wantabee's, Stuart
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > > >
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> >eational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=DAUkCKkU7Dzh
> >n_ObWmSYTw>Recreational
> > > >vehicles
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s.yahoo.com/gads?
> >t=ms&k=Wanderlodge&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automot
> >ive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w5=Used+recreational+v
> >ehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=Z-
> >8HJdysB3QLPj9U0JvqYQ>Wanderlodge
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s.yahoo.com/gads?
> >t=ms&k=Automotive+maintenance&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Wanderlodge
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> >reational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=IF4u_5wI8Pm
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> >ational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=ePNVMmISsCWgT
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>e+dealer&w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.s
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>er&w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=ePN
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04-18-2006, 13:12

Too bad about the 6.0. Hope this one works better, the wheels fell off the V6
engine a while back. Harvester needs a break today, hope this one works. Sure
looks good.
MH
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 8:05 PM
Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: 35 FC Transmissions

Mike, A real good example is the 2007 PowerStroke Diesel from Ford. Check
out the details on the following link.

6.4L Power Stroke Diesel

. 350HP and 650 lbs.ft.

http://wnypa.org/64_files/frame.htm

Jerry

MS Gulf Coast

Looking

_____

From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Hohnstein
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 8:39 AM
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: 35 FC Transmissions

Spoken like a true technical illiterate. Sophisticated contempary fuel
controls are responsible for the greatly extended service life of engines,
gasoline and diesel.
Extrordinary horse power per cubic inch production is common place these
days, dwarfing power levels of 20 years ago. There is a reason a 3208 10.3
litre engine is limited to 300 hp in highway use and an 8.3 litre Cummins
routinely make in excess of 330, more if you can cool it.
We work on many hot rod trucks in the shop and it's unbelievable how much
punch these new fangled 5.9s can produce. Electronics are really magic.
Expensive but very very cool. I wish I could retrofit my throwaways (3208)
with new fuel controls.
MH

----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Warner
To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 11:28 PM
Subject: RE: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: 35 FC Transmissions

Jerry the electronic controls on todays diesel engine were installed
to ensure that the engines meet the very stringent emission standards
of today. They have not become more efficient they have become
compliant with the laws at the expense of lowering their
efficiency. They achieve that by creating more heat and thus run at
higher temperatures, and they therefore need better lubricants and
increased maintenance, at the same time of operating at reduced
power. Remember there is always a tradeoff to everything. A gallon
of diesel fuel contains approximately 140,000 BTUs. One horsepower
equals 2545 BTUs per hour. Its easy to see that increased horsepower
is only achieved thru packing more fuel/air mixture into the
cylinders and efficiently exhausting it.

Tom Warner
Vernon Center,NY
1982 FC35 for sale ( http://tinyurl.com/zv2on )
1985 PT40

. At 12:11 AM 4/18/2006, you wrote:
>Tom, a diesel or gasoline engine is an air breathing device. A turbo
>charger increases the amount of air it can breath. If the boost pressure
>provided is 14.7 PSI, the engine sees instead of the normal one
atmosphere
>of pressure, two atmospheres. It is, at 14.7PSI of boost, without losses
>considerations, now twice the size engine. It does of course as you
noted,
>take more fuel. The intercooler takes some of the heat out of the intake
>air, providing a denser, heavier fuel air mixture. The magic as I see it
is
>the electronic controls and devices used today to not only lower
emissions
>but also create more power with less fuel.
>
>
>
>Jerry
>
>MS Gulf Coast
>
>Looking for a BB
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Warner
>Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 10:27 PM
>To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: 35 FC Transmissions
>
>
>
>Hank thats about what I am getting with my 1982 FC35 with the Cat
>3208NA. People forget that turbo chargers and intercoolers do not
>make an engine more efficient they allow a denser fuel/air charge to
>be pumped into the cylinder. More fuel pumped into the cylinder means
>more fuel used. A horsepower increase from 210HP to 300HP in the same
>engine can only be realized thru the use of more fuel. There is no
>magic involved.
>
>Tom Warner
>Vernon Center,NY
>1982 FC35 (for sale
<http://tinyurl.com/lotbdcan>http://tinyurl.com/lotbdcan )
>1985 PT40
>
>At 09:55 PM 4/17/2006, you wrote:
> >---Mike:
> >That's nuts!!! My 77FC33 with the CAT 210NA got 8-9mpg
> >consistently while my 90SP36 gets only 6-7mpg!!! That's a true
> >staement and NOT nuts!
> >Regards,
> >Hank Hannigan
> >1990SP36
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
> ><MHOHNSTEIN@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > That's nuts. Turbo charging and charge air coolers are methods to
> >improve the efficiency of diesel engines. The 5 speed OD trans
> >keeps engine speed down and increased horse power improves the power
> >to weight ratio over the older NA/643 speed bumps. Most 87up FCs
> >have two airs and the smaller lighter gen set, handling and
> >acceleration are greatly enhanced. There is no way a NA gets better
> >mileage than a turbo, level playing field.
> > > I drove Millers 88 FC a while back and it was a night and day
> >diffference compared to my well tuned 250 hp 83 rear bath.
> > > Engine speed is the major issue when considering improving
> >milage.
> > > Turbo/charge air cooled engines can tolerate 400 rpm lower rpm at
> >full throttle and don't need to go over 2500 rpm for max power. NAs
> >need to spin faster due to the lack of forced induction and need
> >more fuel to facilitate that.
> > > Now I could be over looking something, so if you have some REAL
> >experience that might lend some credibility to your aurgument I'm
> >listening Warner. I'm interested in miles you have driven your NA,
> >average speed, speed on grades, that sort of thing. I assume you
> >have taken some trips, so lets hear what you have really seen for
> >fuel use. Those considering your FC might want to know.
> > > Mike Hohnstein
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Tom Warner
> > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 9:58 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: 35 FC Transmissions
> > >
> > >
> > > I doubt very much if you will find an 87-89 FC that will even
> >get
> > > close to the fuel mileage of the 1982 FC/31/33/35 coaches. I
> >believe
> > > the 4th gear is the same as the 5th or 6th gear in the 87-89.
> > >
> > > Tom Warner
> > > Vernon Center,NY
> > > 1982 FC35 ( for sale at
> ><<http://s69.photobucket.com/albums/i57/warbucks13477/>http://s69.p
> hotobucket.com/albums/i57/warbucks13477/>http://s69.photobucke
>t.com/albums/i57/warbucks13477/
> >)
> > > 1985 PT 40
> > >
> > >
> > > At 09:55 PM 4/16/2006, you wrote:
> > > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "sailingmyway"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >i hear storys from 7-10 mpg on the fcs with the 4 speed
> > > >tranny,now,thats not bad milage as i see it!
> > > >randy dupree
> > > > > Does anyone know if they ever put the 5 or 6 speed overdrive
> > > > > transmission in the 35 FC? If so, what year did they
> >start? I've
> > > > > zeroed in on the 35FC as the correct Bird for my wife and I,
> > > >however, I
> > > > > really hesitate buying one that gets such poor fuel mileage
> >as the 4
> > > > > speed Allison. John & Pat - Wantabee's, Stuart
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> >eational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=DAUkCKkU7Dzh
> >n_ObWmSYTw>Recreational
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> >ehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=Z-
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> >reational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=IF4u_5wI8Pm
> >y34cC1O9CxA>Automotive
> > > >maintenance
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><<<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?>http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?>http://group
s.yahoo.com/gads?
> >t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Wander
> >lodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w5=Use
> >d+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=z6_Xah
> >aeYHfELr6o72IW1A>Recreational
> > > >vehicle dealer
> > >
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s.yahoo.com/gads?
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> >+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=UGEY5km
> >4L-kXbDI4ZSadEw>Used
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> > >
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s.yahoo.com/gads?
> >t=ms&k=Automotive+radiators&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2=Wanderlodge&w
> >3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w5=Used+recre
> >ational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=ePNVMmISsCWgT
> >nMq_4GlXA>Automotive
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

04-18-2006, 13:47

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, Tom Warner
wrote:
>the way i remember the old days of trucking was most trucks had
maybe 300 hp and got maybe 3mpg,now we can have 650 hp and get 6-8
mpg with the new electronic engines,and get 500,000 miles before the
first inframe overhaul. just think if they didnt have turbos or
charge air coolers..i don't miss the smoke filled air at a truck
stop..
randy dupree 93wb,84fc for sale,95 43' for sale.
> Jerry the electronic controls on todays diesel engine were
installed
> to ensure that the engines meet the very stringent emission
standards
> of today. They have not become more efficient they have become
> compliant with the laws at the expense of lowering their
> efficiency. They achieve that by creating more heat and thus run
at
> higher temperatures, and they therefore need better lubricants and
> increased maintenance, at the same time of operating at reduced
> power. Remember there is always a tradeoff to everything. A
gallon
> of diesel fuel contains approximately 140,000 BTUs. One
horsepower
> equals 2545 BTUs per hour. Its easy to see that increased
horsepower
> is only achieved thru packing more fuel/air mixture into the
> cylinders and efficiently exhausting it.
>
> Tom Warner
> Vernon Center,NY
> 1982 FC35 for sale ( http://tinyurl.com/zv2on )
> 1985 PT40
>
>
>
>
> . At 12:11 AM 4/18/2006, you wrote:
> >Tom, a diesel or gasoline engine is an air breathing device. A
turbo
> >charger increases the amount of air it can breath. If the boost
pressure
> >provided is 14.7 PSI, the engine sees instead of the normal one
atmosphere
> >of pressure, two atmospheres. It is, at 14.7PSI of boost,
without losses
> >considerations, now twice the size engine. It does of course as
you noted,
> >take more fuel. The intercooler takes some of the heat out of
the intake
> >air, providing a denser, heavier fuel air mixture. The magic as
I see it is
> >the electronic controls and devices used today to not only lower
emissions
> >but also create more power with less fuel.
> >
> >
> >
> >Jerry
> >
> >MS Gulf Coast
> >
> >Looking for a BB
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> >From: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> >[mailto:WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tom Warner
> >Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 10:27 PM
> >To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: 35 FC Transmissions
> >
> >
> >
> >Hank thats about what I am getting with my 1982 FC35 with the Cat
> >3208NA. People forget that turbo chargers and intercoolers do not
> >make an engine more efficient they allow a denser fuel/air charge
to
> >be pumped into the cylinder. More fuel pumped into the cylinder
means
> >more fuel used. A horsepower increase from 210HP to 300HP in the
same
> >engine can only be realized thru the use of more fuel. There is no
> >magic involved.
> >
> >Tom Warner
> >Vernon Center,NY
> >1982 FC35 (for sale
<http://tinyurl.com/lotbdcan>http://tinyurl.com/lotbdcan )
> >1985 PT40
> >
> >At 09:55 PM 4/17/2006, you wrote:
> > >---Mike:
> > >That's nuts!!! My 77FC33 with the CAT 210NA got 8-9mpg
> > >consistently while my 90SP36 gets only 6-7mpg!!! That's a true
> > >staement and NOT nuts!
> > >Regards,
> > >Hank Hannigan
> > >1990SP36
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hohnstein"
> > ><MHOHNSTEIN@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > That's nuts. Turbo charging and charge air coolers are
methods to
> > >improve the efficiency of diesel engines. The 5 speed OD trans
> > >keeps engine speed down and increased horse power improves the
power
> > >to weight ratio over the older NA/643 speed bumps. Most 87up
FCs
> > >have two airs and the smaller lighter gen set, handling and
> > >acceleration are greatly enhanced. There is no way a NA gets
better
> > >mileage than a turbo, level playing field.
> > > > I drove Millers 88 FC a while back and it was a night and day
> > >diffference compared to my well tuned 250 hp 83 rear bath.
> > > > Engine speed is the major issue when considering improving
> > >milage.
> > > > Turbo/charge air cooled engines can tolerate 400 rpm lower
rpm at
> > >full throttle and don't need to go over 2500 rpm for max
power. NAs
> > >need to spin faster due to the lack of forced induction and need
> > >more fuel to facilitate that.
> > > > Now I could be over looking something, so if you have some
REAL
> > >experience that might lend some credibility to your aurgument
I'm
> > >listening Warner. I'm interested in miles you have driven your
NA,
> > >average speed, speed on grades, that sort of thing. I assume
you
> > >have taken some trips, so lets hear what you have really seen
for
> > >fuel use. Those considering your FC might want to know.
> > > > Mike Hohnstein
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Tom Warner
> > > > To: WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 9:58 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [WanderlodgeForum] Re: 35 FC Transmissions
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I doubt very much if you will find an 87-89 FC that will
even
> > >get
> > > > close to the fuel mileage of the 1982 FC/31/33/35 coaches.
I
> > >believe
> > > > the 4th gear is the same as the 5th or 6th gear in the 87-
89.
> > > >
> > > > Tom Warner
> > > > Vernon Center,NY
> > > > 1982 FC35 ( for sale at
> >
><<http://s69.photobucket.com/albums/i57/warbucks13477/>http://s69.p
> > hotobucket.com/albums/i57/warbucks13477/>http://s69.photobucke
> >t.com/albums/i57/warbucks13477/
> > >)
> > > > 1985 PT 40
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At 09:55 PM 4/16/2006, you wrote:
> > > > >--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "sailingmyway"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >i hear storys from 7-10 mpg on the fcs with the 4 speed
> > > > >tranny,now,thats not bad milage as i see it!
> > > > >randy dupree
> > > > > > Does anyone know if they ever put the 5 or 6 speed
overdrive
> > > > > > transmission in the 35 FC? If so, what year did they
> > >start? I've
> > > > > > zeroed in on the 35FC as the correct Bird for my wife
and I,
> > > > >however, I
> > > > > > really hesitate buying one that gets such poor fuel
mileage
> > >as the 4
> > > > > > speed Allison. John & Pat - Wantabee's, Stuart
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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h
> > >n_ObWmSYTw>Recreational
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> > >ehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=Z-
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c
> >
>reational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=IF4u_5wI8P
m
> > >y34cC1O9CxA>Automotive
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e
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>d+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=z6_Xa
h
> > >aeYHfELr6o72IW1A>Recreational
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>http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> >
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d
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m
> > >4L-kXbDI4ZSadEw>Used
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>http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
> >
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w
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e
> >
>ational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.sig=ePNVMmISsCWg
T
> > >nMq_4GlXA>Automotive
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icle+dea
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> ><<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Wanderlodge&w1=Recreational+vehicles&w2>http://groups.yahoo.co
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hicle+de
>
>aler&w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163
&.sig=IF
> >4u_5wI8Pmy34cC1O9CxA> maintenance
> >
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> ><<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w1=Recreati>http://groups.yahoo.co
m/gads?t=ms&k=Recreational+vehicle+dealer&w1=Recreati
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al+vehic
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>le+dealer&w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&
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> >ig=z6_XahaeYHfELr6o72IW1A> vehicle dealer
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>e+dealer&w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s
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> ><<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Automotive+radiators&w1=Recreational+ve>http://groups.yahoo.co
m/gads?t=ms&k=Automotive+radiators&w1=Recreational+ve
>
>hicles&w2=Wanderlodge&w3=Automotive+maintenance&w4=Recreational+vehi
cle+deal
>
>er&w5=Used+recreational+vehicles&w6=Automotive+radiators&c=6&s=163&.
sig=ePNV
> >MmISsCWgTnMq_4GlXA> radiators
> >
> >
> >
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