oil leak part 2

[erniecarpet@...]

After the mechanics removed the turbo, they found the blower plate bolts
LOOSE!! They removed that plate to check the blower. The blower checked out
fine-BUT- there was NO gasket between the plate and the engine. So, whoever did
the inframe reman- left out the gasket. It really is rocket science!! No
wonder I have been plagued with all this oil scum. More later- Erniie-83pt40 in
Childress, Tx, for a short time, I hope


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[erniecarpet@...]

Hi Hank, thanks for the advice. I believe that it happenned before Ron
bought the coach . He had it for 6 years and we have had it for 4- so I don't
even
know if the previous, previous owner is still alive. Its gonna cost a
liittle over $600 to get it fixed. BUT- if this corrects the oil leaks, its
money
well spent. These leaks we have been chasing for years. Ernie-83ptt40 in
Childress-where is that place?-Texas


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[erniecarpet@...]

I don't know if Ron has any documentation about that repair. I don''t have
anything in my records. We'll see. Thanks, Ernie 83pt40 in Texas


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[erniecarpet@...]

George, thank you for that insight. Ernie-83pt40 waiting for parts- they
better show up tomorrow or I'll go really nuts in Childress, Tx


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Henry Jay Hannigan]

---Ernie:
Not sure what Texas legal ground u stand on as that rebuild was a
while ago, however it was evidently done incorrectly. As such it has
been a concern since day one of the rebuild. Recommend u chat with
a Texas attorney(first visit free right?) about the traceable
problem. Perhaps the attorney or you could m ake some noise to the
rebuild company and request they pay your bill. No doubt their
screwup caused it.
LOL
Hank Hannigan
90SP36





In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@... wrote:
>
> After the mechanics removed the turbo, they found the blower plate
bolts
> LOOSE!! They removed that plate to check the blower. The blower
checked out
> fine-BUT- there was NO gasket between the plate and the engine.
So, whoever did
> the inframe reman- left out the gasket. It really is rocket
science!! No
> wonder I have been plagued with all this oil scum. More later-
Erniie-83pt40 in
> Childress, Tx, for a short time, I hope
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Henry Jay Hannigan]

---ERNIE:
If u no where the work was done, making some noise to the garage
owner, with documented paperwork from the repair people showing
absence of the gasket was the root cause of all the troubles since
day one, could do some good. At least the original "fixer" would
know that u r NOT going to say anything NICE about his repair shop
if he does not "share" some of your expense. As a member of the
Forum, YOU are a powerful voice to repair seekers.
nuf said.
LOL
Hank Hannigan
90SP36







In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@... wrote:
>
> Hi Hank, thanks for the advice. I believe that it happenned before
Ron
> bought the coach . He had it for 6 years and we have had it for 4-
so I don't even
> know if the previous, previous owner is still alive. Its gonna
cost a
> liittle over $600 to get it fixed. BUT- if this corrects the oil
leaks, its money
> well spent. These leaks we have been chasing for years. Ernie-
83ptt40 in
> Childress-where is that place?-Texas
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[George Witt]

Hank,
If I may chime in here as a repair shop owner and mechanic...
If the bolts were loose and the gasket not present, is it possible
that the bolts failed, came loose and the pressure blew the gasket out?
The fact that no gasket was found only means "no gasket was
found". It doesn't necessarily mean it was never installed.
Tightening bolts stretches them and the resulting stretch
provides a clamping force. If the bolts fail, they stretch too far,
like a rubber band that was stretched too far and they get loose,
since the clamping force is no longer present. This could allow the
gasket to blow out from the pressure. Hence, no gasket could be found.
Next, I believe Federal Law only requires a warranty to be 90
days or 3,000 miles on mechanical repairs, so any warranty would be up
by now.
Moral of the story: Be sure they throw out the bolts that were
loose and use new ones. Once any bolt is found loose, you never
"tighten them up" as they are probably stretched. Also be sure they
use the proper grade of bolt and they're torqued to the proper spec
for the grade and thread pitch. Each grade has a different torque
spec and so does each thread pitch for that grade and size bolt.
This is the reason my shop NEVER reuses cylinder head bolts when
replacing a "blown head gasket", since the bolts could have stretched
and caused the gasket to blow.
Just some background from a mechanic's perspective...

George Witt
81 FC 35
Lincoln, Nebraska



--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Henry Jay Hannigan"
wrote:
>
> ---Ernie:
> Not sure what Texas legal ground u stand on as that rebuild was a
> while ago, however it was evidently done incorrectly. As such it has
> been a concern since day one of the rebuild. Recommend u chat with
> a Texas attorney(first visit free right?) about the traceable
> problem. Perhaps the attorney or you could m ake some noise to the
> rebuild company and request they pay your bill. No doubt their
> screwup caused it.
> LOL
> Hank Hannigan
> 90SP36
>
>
>
>
>
> In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@ wrote:
> >
> > After the mechanics removed the turbo, they found the blower plate
> bolts
> > LOOSE!! They removed that plate to check the blower. The blower
> checked out
> > fine-BUT- there was NO gasket between the plate and the engine.
> So, whoever did
> > the inframe reman- left out the gasket. It really is rocket
> science!! No
> > wonder I have been plagued with all this oil scum. More later-
> Erniie-83pt40 in
> > Childress, Tx, for a short time, I hope
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

[Henry Jay Hannigan]

---Hey George!

Great reply from a mechanics view! ur correct about implied
warranty of merchantabilty for only 90 days,. However, discovery
comes into view also..and...if it is true that GASKET was NEVER
installed, don't u thing the Installer owner has some good
faith/good will obligation to respond?

Also please note that I told Ernie to have the repair mechanic
certify the "never installed" gasket fact in writing.

Probably all moot and nothing will happen except Ernie will eat the
bill, but if it were me, and...I had the facts, I would make a phone
call to the garage owner where it was installed and share the story.

Besides, I have nothing to do in retirement and was very bored as I
have slowed my online poker down, so I thought I would respond to
Ernie...AND I got SUNBURN laying on the beach at KOolina Resort
yesterday. LOL
Hank Hannigan
90SP36(stored inVegas but for sale so I can pay my Hawaii hotel bill)
In Hawaii washing dishes..LOL





In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "George Witt" <mrdonut12@...>
wrote:
>
> Hank,
> If I may chime in here as a repair shop owner and mechanic...
> If the bolts were loose and the gasket not present, is it
possible
> that the bolts failed, came loose and the pressure blew the gasket
out?
> The fact that no gasket was found only means "no gasket was
> found". It doesn't necessarily mean it was never installed.
> Tightening bolts stretches them and the resulting stretch
> provides a clamping force. If the bolts fail, they stretch too
far,
> like a rubber band that was stretched too far and they get loose,
> since the clamping force is no longer present. This could allow
the
> gasket to blow out from the pressure. Hence, no gasket could be
found.
> Next, I believe Federal Law only requires a warranty to be 90
> days or 3,000 miles on mechanical repairs, so any warranty would
be up
> by now.
> Moral of the story: Be sure they throw out the bolts that
were
> loose and use new ones. Once any bolt is found loose, you never
> "tighten them up" as they are probably stretched. Also be sure
they
> use the proper grade of bolt and they're torqued to the proper spec
> for the grade and thread pitch. Each grade has a different torque
> spec and so does each thread pitch for that grade and size bolt.
> This is the reason my shop NEVER reuses cylinder head bolts
when
> replacing a "blown head gasket", since the bolts could have
stretched
> and caused the gasket to blow.
> Just some background from a mechanic's perspective...
>
> George Witt
> 81 FC 35
> Lincoln, Nebraska
>
>
>
> --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Henry Jay Hannigan"
> wrote:
> >
> > ---Ernie:
> > Not sure what Texas legal ground u stand on as that rebuild was
a
> > while ago, however it was evidently done incorrectly. As such it
has
> > been a concern since day one of the rebuild. Recommend u chat
with
> > a Texas attorney(first visit free right?) about the traceable
> > problem. Perhaps the attorney or you could m ake some noise to
the
> > rebuild company and request they pay your bill. No doubt their
> > screwup caused it.
> > LOL
> > Hank Hannigan
> > 90SP36
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@ wrote:
> > >
> > > After the mechanics removed the turbo, they found the blower
plate
> > bolts
> > > LOOSE!! They removed that plate to check the blower. The
blower
> > checked out
> > > fine-BUT- there was NO gasket between the plate and the
engine.
> > So, whoever did
> > > the inframe reman- left out the gasket. It really is rocket
> > science!! No
> > > wonder I have been plagued with all this oil scum. More later-
> > Erniie-83pt40 in
> > > Childress, Tx, for a short time, I hope
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>

[Tom Warner]

If Ron had the coach for 6 years and Ernie for 4 then how could it be
possible that the gasket was never installed? It had to have been so
why is this avenue even being discussed? I would look at whether the
bolts had thread locker on them or not. But even then you are not
going to get anyplace on a repair that was done over 10 years ago.

Tom Warner
Vernon Center,NY
1985 PT 40

At 08:42 PM 5/16/2006, you wrote:
>---Hey George!
>
>Great reply from a mechanics view! ur correct about implied
>warranty of merchantabilty for only 90 days,. However, discovery
>comes into view also..and...if it is true that GASKET was NEVER
>installed, don't u thing the Installer owner has some good
>faith/good will obligation to respond?
>
>Also please note that I told Ernie to have the repair mechanic
>certify the "never installed" gasket fact in writing.
>
>Probably all moot and nothing will happen except Ernie will eat the
>bill, but if it were me, and...I had the facts, I would make a phone
>call to the garage owner where it was installed and share the story.
>
>Besides, I have nothing to do in retirement and was very bored as I
>have slowed my online poker down, so I thought I would respond to
>Ernie...AND I got SUNBURN laying on the beach at KOolina Resort
>yesterday. LOL
>Hank Hannigan
>90SP36(stored inVegas but for sale so I can pay my Hawaii hotel bill)
>In Hawaii washing dishes..LOL
>
>
>
>
>
>In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "George Witt" <mrdonut12@...>
>wrote:
> >
> > Hank,
> > If I may chime in here as a repair shop owner and mechanic...
> > If the bolts were loose and the gasket not present, is it
>possible
> > that the bolts failed, came loose and the pressure blew the gasket
>out?
> > The fact that no gasket was found only means "no gasket was
> > found". It doesn't necessarily mean it was never installed.
> > Tightening bolts stretches them and the resulting stretch
> > provides a clamping force. If the bolts fail, they stretch too
>far,
> > like a rubber band that was stretched too far and they get loose,
> > since the clamping force is no longer present. This could allow
>the
> > gasket to blow out from the pressure. Hence, no gasket could be
>found.
> > Next, I believe Federal Law only requires a warranty to be 90
> > days or 3,000 miles on mechanical repairs, so any warranty would
>be up
> > by now.
> > Moral of the story: Be sure they throw out the bolts that
>were
> > loose and use new ones. Once any bolt is found loose, you never
> > "tighten them up" as they are probably stretched. Also be sure
>they
> > use the proper grade of bolt and they're torqued to the proper spec
> > for the grade and thread pitch. Each grade has a different torque
> > spec and so does each thread pitch for that grade and size bolt.
> > This is the reason my shop NEVER reuses cylinder head bolts
>when
> > replacing a "blown head gasket", since the bolts could have
>stretched
> > and caused the gasket to blow.
> > Just some background from a mechanic's perspective...
> >
> > George Witt
> > 81 FC 35
> > Lincoln, Nebraska
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Henry Jay Hannigan"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > ---Ernie:
> > > Not sure what Texas legal ground u stand on as that rebuild was
>a
> > > while ago, however it was evidently done incorrectly. As such it
>has
> > > been a concern since day one of the rebuild. Recommend u chat
>with
> > > a Texas attorney(first visit free right?) about the traceable
> > > problem. Perhaps the attorney or you could m ake some noise to
>the
> > > rebuild company and request they pay your bill. No doubt their
> > > screwup caused it.
> > > LOL
> > > Hank Hannigan
> > > 90SP36
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > After the mechanics removed the turbo, they found the blower
>plate
> > > bolts
> > > > LOOSE!! They removed that plate to check the blower. The
>blower
> > > checked out
> > > > fine-BUT- there was NO gasket between the plate and the
>engine.
> > > So, whoever did
> > > > the inframe reman- left out the gasket. It really is rocket
> > > science!! No
> > > > wonder I have been plagued with all this oil scum. More later-
> > > Erniie-83pt40 in
> > > > Childress, Tx, for a short time, I hope
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[George Witt]

--- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Henry Jay Hannigan"
wrote:
>
> ---Hey George!
>
> Great reply from a mechanics view! ur correct about implied
> warranty of merchantabilty for only 90 days,. However, discovery
> comes into view also..and...if it is true that GASKET was NEVER
> installed, don't u thing the Installer owner has some good
> faith/good will obligation to respond?
Hank,
Playing Devil's Advocate (and telling you what a Defense
Attorney might say), the repair mechanic cannot possibly certify the
gasket was "never installed" in writing or otherwise. I'm assuming
the mechanic was not present when the engine was installed/assembled.
That's the only situation in which the mechanic could truthfully
state "the gasket was never installed". If he was there at the time,
he could certify as such. If he wasn't present when this was done, he
has no idea whether it was or wasn't.
The mechanic could truthfully state, "the bolts were loose and no
gasket was found", but there's nothing else to which he could testify
and offer proof other than that to which he could testify he had
personally observed.

>
> Also please note that I told Ernie to have the repair mechanic
> certify the "never installed" gasket fact in writing.
Based on.........?
>
> Probably all moot and nothing will happen except Ernie will eat the
> bill, but if it were me, and...I had the facts, I would make a phone
> call to the garage owner where it was installed and share the story.
Unfortunately, there are only 2 I can validate and none that I
see that can get Ernie out of writing a check.
The good new is, any problem we have that can be fixed with money
is minor indeed, compared to the ones that money can't fix. :o)

George Witt
81 FC 35
Lincoln, Nebraska
>
> Besides, I have nothing to do in retirement and was very bored as I
> have slowed my online poker down, so I thought I would respond to
> Ernie...AND I got SUNBURN laying on the beach at KOolina Resort
> yesterday. LOL
> Hank Hannigan
> 90SP36(stored inVegas but for sale so I can pay my Hawaii hotel bill)
> In Hawaii washing dishes..LOL
>
>
>
>
>
> In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "George Witt" <mrdonut12@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hank,
> > If I may chime in here as a repair shop owner and mechanic...
> > If the bolts were loose and the gasket not present, is it
> possible
> > that the bolts failed, came loose and the pressure blew the gasket
> out?
> > The fact that no gasket was found only means "no gasket was
> > found". It doesn't necessarily mean it was never installed.
> > Tightening bolts stretches them and the resulting stretch
> > provides a clamping force. If the bolts fail, they stretch too
> far,
> > like a rubber band that was stretched too far and they get loose,
> > since the clamping force is no longer present. This could allow
> the
> > gasket to blow out from the pressure. Hence, no gasket could be
> found.
> > Next, I believe Federal Law only requires a warranty to be 90
> > days or 3,000 miles on mechanical repairs, so any warranty would
> be up
> > by now.
> > Moral of the story: Be sure they throw out the bolts that
> were
> > loose and use new ones. Once any bolt is found loose, you never
> > "tighten them up" as they are probably stretched. Also be sure
> they
> > use the proper grade of bolt and they're torqued to the proper spec
> > for the grade and thread pitch. Each grade has a different torque
> > spec and so does each thread pitch for that grade and size bolt.
> > This is the reason my shop NEVER reuses cylinder head bolts
> when
> > replacing a "blown head gasket", since the bolts could have
> stretched
> > and caused the gasket to blow.
> > Just some background from a mechanic's perspective...
> >
> > George Witt
> > 81 FC 35
> > Lincoln, Nebraska
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, "Henry Jay Hannigan"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > ---Ernie:
> > > Not sure what Texas legal ground u stand on as that rebuild was
> a
> > > while ago, however it was evidently done incorrectly. As such it
> has
> > > been a concern since day one of the rebuild. Recommend u chat
> with
> > > a Texas attorney(first visit free right?) about the traceable
> > > problem. Perhaps the attorney or you could m ake some noise to
> the
> > > rebuild company and request they pay your bill. No doubt their
> > > screwup caused it.
> > > LOL
> > > Hank Hannigan
> > > 90SP36
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In WanderlodgeForum@yahoogroups.com, erniecarpet@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > After the mechanics removed the turbo, they found the blower
> plate
> > > bolts
> > > > LOOSE!! They removed that plate to check the blower. The
> blower
> > > checked out
> > > > fine-BUT- there was NO gasket between the plate and the
> engine.
> > > So, whoever did
> > > > the inframe reman- left out the gasket. It really is rocket
> > > science!! No
> > > > wonder I have been plagued with all this oil scum. More later-
> > > Erniie-83pt40 in
> > > > Childress, Tx, for a short time, I hope
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
>